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Trump Rallies In Kentucky 17 Days Before Midterms; New Cook Ratings Has 11 House Races Shift Toward Democrats; Investigators Search For Motive In Oregon School Shooting; Suspicious Letters Sent To Lawmakers, Election Offices; Trump Waives Russia-Related Sanctions Before They Begin; Elizabeth Holmes Back In Spotlight In New Documentary; Pope Discharged From Hospital After Lung Cancer Surgery. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 17, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): Han Solo, captain of the Millennium Falcon. Obi Wan, come on. Shotgun.

ADAM MOCKLER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Republicans are saying that was from his time in a mental health facility in Ohio.

JOSH GONDELMAN, COMEDIAN: I'll tell you what we didn't see. Singing. It was not capella, it was not capella.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Watch this new epode of "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU" tonight, 9:00 on CNN.

All right. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM continues with Jessica Dean right now.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York.

And happening right now, President Donald Trump out on the campaign trail, stumping for Republicans across the country in the countdown to election day. Today, Trump is in northern Kentucky rallying for Republican Congressman Andy Barr and congressional nominee Ed Gallrein. Barr is running to replace retiring Senator Mitch McConnell, while Gallrein beat out Trump's longtime political rival Thomas Massie in that primary election.

Now meanwhile, a number of top surrogates are also campaigning for Democratic candidates in red and purple states this weekend, including California Governor Gavin Newsom, Senator Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

This weekend's midterm push, coming as early voting is already well underway in many states,. With just 17 days to go now in this election cycle, more than eight million votes have already been cast. Let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Alayna Treene, who joins

us now from Kentucky, where President Trump finished speaking just a few moments ago.

Alayna, what was his message to voters today?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, the president was, you could tell, really enjoying the crowd this evening or I guess it's still afternoon today, Jessica. But look, that's partly because we are in a solidly red district. You mentioned it, but this is the district that is home to the president's longtime political rival, Republican, I should say, Thomas Massie. Now, as well you mentioned Ed Gallrein is the person who is running -- who won the primary against Massie. He was here tonight. President stumping for him as well as the Senate Republican nominee, Andy Barr, running to fill the seat that is going to be vacated by Mitch McConnell.

But a lot of -- again, a very red district and a lot of the president's fiercest supporters in this room. And this is a trend you've seen with where the president has chosen to spend his time and where he's been traveling to as he crisscrosses the country in recent weeks in the lead up to November 3rd. But one thing that was partly the reason for why he came to northern Kentucky specifically is also because it is very close to Ohio. It's very close to the border. It also is part of the media market of Cincinnati.

And Ohio is really a race that Republicans we know are very concerned about. Tough, competitive races for the Senate race there as well for this gubernatorial race. The president brought that up tonight, too. But two things that really stood out to me from this event. One is we really heard Trump in recent weeks kind of step up one of his favorite tactics, which is to attack his favorite political boogeyman.

That includes, he talked about Abdul El-Sayed, the Democratic Senate nominee in Michigan. He talked about James Talarico, the Democratic Senate nominee in Texas. I mean, even though these candidates are very far, hundreds of miles from Kentucky, trying to focus on them. He did go after some of the Democrats in these races here in Kentucky as well. But it's really become a huge focus of his as he gets closer to the midterm elections.

We also heard the president offer kind of another gift as he continues his pitch these giveaways to Republicans on November 3rd. He says if Republicans win the House and Senate, they'll be getting, we've heard him say in the past, $5,000 checks, $90 rebates for people who, you know, have Medicaid, you know, to pay off their Medicaid premiums. And he also brought that up tonight. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In conclusion, if you elect a Republican House and a Republican Senate on November 3rd, you're getting $5,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TREENE: I mean, Jessica, that is him clearly dangling a carrot in front of his supporters. But he also brought up was something specific to Kentucky throwing another giveaway at them, essentially. He said that if Republicans win, that the Department of War, the Department of Defense would be investing $100 million in the pharmaceutical company Antheia to revitalize what he said was a gigantic drug manufacturing facility here in Kentucky. So keeping with this trend of him kind of throwing out what could be giveaways.

Now, I will say a lot of these people have questioned -- are actually, if they're even actually possible to happen, I mean, we know that Congress, of course, controls the purse strings when he talks about these $5,000 dividend checks, or that's what he calls them, at least, Jessica, something that we know Congress would actually need to pass.

[16:05:03]

So questions there about whether or not these are things his supporters will actually be able to enjoy, but I think clearly a strategy Trump is leaning even more heavily into as we close in on these final days before November 3rd.

DEAN: Yes. And Alayna, you underscore an important point there. Congress is in control of who cuts those checks. That is a congressional decision to be made.

Did you talk to any voters? What did they tell you?

TREENE: Yes. Look, it's hard because I will say I had some travel trouble getting here, so I had to -- I got here to the rally right before it started, but I did get to talk to some Republicans on the ground here. One thing about these rallies, of course, is these are the fiercest supporters of the president. So a lot of these people caring a lot about the president. They support him. So mostly in line with a lot of the things that the president touts.

You know, they believe that he is still, like this idea that when he says, pretend I'm on the ballot, his voters say that is a message that will drive them out to election day. And it's something I've been hearing in a lot of these different states. You know, two weeks ago, Jessica, I was in Ohio where I talked to some of the president's fiercest supporters there, too. And they made the similar argument.

One thing I will say, though, is a lot of people will acknowledge that gas prices are too high. The economy is not necessarily in the place that they want it to be. And also the Iran war is something a lot of people, including his supporters, are uneasy about. So, look, this midterm is obviously the midterms have very high stakes, not just for Republicans at large, but for the president himself as he prepares to enter his lame duck part of his second term.

So very high stakes. And part of why you're seeing Trump really keep up this aggressive, frenetic pace of campaigning in the past couple of weeks.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Alayna Treene, on the ground for us there in Kentucky. Thank you so much for that.

And while the president campaigns there in Kentucky, the map is looking increasingly worrisome for Republicans. A new update from the Cook Political Report shifts 11 additional House races toward Democrats, and those include districts the president won by double digits in 2024.

And joining us now to break that down is Cook Political Report founder and contributor Charlie Cook.

Charlie, it's great to have you here with us. In this latest update you all point out that Republicans' troubles are particularly pronounced in these Midwestern red states. And in fact, half of your latest House ratings changes, all of which, as we noted, are shifting toward Democrats are in Ohio, Nebraska, and Kansas. So help us understand what's going on in those states specifically.

CHARLIE COOK, COOK POLITICAL REPORT FOUNDER: Well, these are the ratings that my former colleagues at the Cook Political Report. I've been separated for about five years. But the thing is what we're seeing is Republicans are struggling in places that they shouldn't have to be struggling. And if you think about whether it's high gasoline, diesel, fuel oil, fertilizer prices because of the Iran war, whether you're talking about tariffs for -- tariffs that hit farmers particularly badly, that red America has actually been hit more, hurt more, than a lot of blue, more Democratic areas or purple swing areas.

And so where we're seeing Republicans ratings in both Senate and House races, it's where -- it's disproportionately rural small towns, smaller cities. It's not where Republicans normally have to worry about. But they've sort of borne the brunt of this. And that's why Republicans are so worried about their turnout that their own people just may not show up, which it's a certain, it's typical a little bit to midterm elections, but this looks like it's a bigger problem than it normally is for a president's party.

DEAN: And there's kind of piggybacking on that. Another trend that has been noted in some of the recent analysis on the Cook Report is that seats that voted or congressional districts that voted for Barack Obama, but then swung back toward Republicans in this Trump era are starting to look much more competitive than they've been in recent years. And I think a lot of those would probably fall into the bucket that you're talking about as well. But tell us about that because I know that's happening here in kind of upstate New York as well.

COOK: Well, you had some minority, some Hispanic, young African- American men, you had certain groups that normally are pretty Democratic, but in '24, they moved away from Democrats. And I think it was because they got hit so hard by inflation and interest rates, that sort of thing. And so they kind of swung over more towards Republicans. And I think this time we're going to see them sort of kind of revert back to the main, come back over, back towards Democrats. But we're seeing that in sort of congressional races in south Texas.

[16:10:00] And, you know, a lot of places around where groups that Republicans thought they had been making some inroads may be slipping, going back to where they were prior to 2024.

DEAN: And as somebody who has covered politics for a long time and done a lot of analysis of American voters, I'm curious what happened -- what we are seeing is a trend now is we're swinging so far back and forth, back and forth, especially in the executive branch, but even in Congress as well. Obviously, you have a lot of districts, far fewer districts, let's say, that are true purple. That really could be a swing district.

What does that mean for our politics and how does that impact what we're seeing right now?

COOK: Well, I think your point about swinging is absolutely right. I mean, this is the first time in American history that we have now had five consecutive new presidents come into office, take the oath of office with majorities in both the Senate and the House. And when they left office, their party had not only lost the presidency, but lost their majorities in both the House and Senate.

So starting with, you know, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, so that a party gets in, they overreach, they try to do too much or too many things too fast and get thrown out. And then the other party comes in and they do the same thing. The other statistic is that, you know, that in the 13 elections that we've had this century, starting in 2000, in 11 out of 13 control of either the House, the Senate or the presidency has flipped from Democrat to Republican or Republican to Democrat, 11 out of 13. That's -- we've never seen this before. So your point on swinging is absolutely right.

DEAN: Yes. And it is also interesting to then see what that means when these parties govern and then how it's kind of a rinse and repeat. So we will see what that means moving forward. But, yes, go ahead. Did you have a last point?

COOK: Yes. The voters -- in midterm elections, voters punish whoever has disappointed or betrayed them most recently, and which oftentimes means they are turning against the party that they just voted for two years earlier. And that's the norm. And that's what seems to be really, really, really happening here is that they were mad at Joe Biden, the Biden-Harris administration, two years ago. Well, you know, now they're mad at President Trump and his party is going to pay a price, too.

DEAN: All right, Charlie Cook, great to have you. Thanks so much for your time.

And still ahead here, police in Oregon working to determine what led a former student to shoot inside an elementary school special needs classroom, killing multiple children and a teacher. We'll have the latest on that investigation next. Plus suspicious substances mailed to dozens of election and congressional offices all across the country. How the FBI is responding to that. And later, President Trump waiving Russia related sanctions before they even set in.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[16:17:54]

DEAN: Police are searching for a motive after officials say a 16-year- old shooter forced his way into his former elementary school in Bend, Oregon, Thursday. Three children, ages 5, 8 and 11, and a 25-year-old teacher were all killed in a special needs classroom. A 7-year-old child and a 54-year-old teacher sustained critical injuries. Police say a student's father heard the gunshots and made his way inside, fatally shooting the gunman. Another teacher who tackled the gunman also tried to disarm him and is being hailed as a hero.

CNN national reporter Nick Watt is joining us now live from Bend, Oregon.

And Nick, I know you've been on the ground for a couple days now as the community tries to grapple with all of this. What's the latest in this investigation today?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, as you say, Jessica, they're looking for a motive. The police chief last night said, we all want to know the motive, but we might never know the motive. They've taken computers, other electronics from the shooter's house, trying to figure out what was going through his head. We spoke to his mom. She said there were no warning signs, claimed there was nothing she could have done. She didn't see this coming.

What we do know is that this shooter got off 15 rounds. They found on his body another 44 rounds. So if it hadn't been for a couple of very brave people, this could have been even worse.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHY SHELL SMITH, TEACHER: They were so afraid. It looks on their faces. It was really hard to see.

WATT (voice-over): A 16-year-old shooter, once a pupil here, armed with a pump action shotgun, blasted his way through double doors into the school, into a classroom right by those doors.

STEVEN COOK, BEND-LA PINE SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT: That classroom was a special needs classroom. And the suspect was a special needs student in that school.

CHIEF MIKE KRANTZ, BEND POLICE: A teacher in the classroom threw her cell phone at the suspect, and then tackled him and fought to take the firearm from him.

WATT (voice-over): Two other teachers were shot, one dead, the other now in critical condition. A dad with two daughters at the school happened to be passing, saw the shooter enter. KRANTZ: The 36-year-old man who parked at the school took out a 40

caliber pistol that was legally secured in his vehicle and carried it towards the school.

[16:20:07]

As he made entry through the forced open doors, he heard shooting and saw a teacher involved in a physical altercation with the suspect. He then went to the classroom where the struggle was underway and fired his weapon, striking the suspect multiple times.

WATT (voice-over): His name, Caleb Giamanco. He is not seeking recognition, said his mom, but instead wishes to express his gratitude to the first responders, school personnel and community for the outpouring of love and support. This could have been so much worse.

KRANTZ: In total, the suspect had approximately 44 remaining rounds of 12-gauge ammunition on his person or in his backpack.

WATT (voice-over): This was all over in about three minutes. Three kids aged 5, 8, and 11 dead, and a 25-year-old teacher also killed. A 10-year-old student described to ABC, though several minutes of fright.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I locked the door and I went back behind our lockers as all my classmates did the same. All of my classmates and my teacher were safe, but we were definitely scared and most people were crying. And it was really hard.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on-camera): So the 5-year-old who died, we know his name, Rhoam Summer, 5 years old. His dad Kelik posted on Facebook that Thursday was the worst day of his life. He says that they're now feeling, quote, "broken and lost," but family and friends are keeping them safe.

Jessica, as you can see, the community here in Bend rallying around in disbelief and solidarity -- Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, that's -- you just have to come together and be together to try to process this thing that should have absolutely never happened.

Nick Watt, thank you so much for your reporting. We really appreciate it.

Still ahead, letters containing a suspicious white powdery substance mailed to multiple election and congressional offices across the country. What investigators are now looking for.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:36] DEAN: Federal authorities are investigating suspicious substances sent to dozens of congressional election offices across the country. At least 36 lawmakers have reported their offices received suspicious letters in the mail as of Friday, as well as election offices in at least 10 states. Some of the mailings have contained an unknown or white powdery substance, prompting evacuations and responses from law enforcement.

CNN's Mark Morales has been following this.

What more can you tell us, Mark?

MARK MORALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's two big things that law enforcement want to know right now. One is obviously who's responsible for this. And the other is, why are they doing this? Now we're a little over two weeks away from the midterm elections. So there's a potential clue right there. But there's also some precedent for this. If you remember in 2024, there were election officials in six different states that actually got similar packages like these before the presidential election.

Now, just last week, as you mentioned, there were election offices in 10 different states that got these packages with that powdery white substance in there. And a lot of these places were not taking any chances. They evacuated their buildings. They had those substances tested to make sure that there wasn't anything toxic inside. One of these such places was in Arizona. The Arizona state capitol got one of these letters, and Secretary of State Adrian Fontes was on "THE LEAD" speaking about this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRIAN FONTES (D), ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE: The substance that was collected had gone through labs last night, initially just to check toxicity. That came back negative. I don't have any specific information as to what the substance actually is, but it is not harmful to human beings at this time.

The distraction of elections officials during this very, very busy time, and the intimidation of -- potential intimidation of voters is harm. That is harm to our democracy. That is harm to our election systems that we want to run smoothly without intimidation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORALES: Now, the FBI, DHS and even the U.S. Postal Service are actually looking into this right now. And remember that there's a very big digital footprint nowadays. A lot of times with these sorting of these pieces of mail, you know what post office this came from and when it was sorted, and with the way the cameras are nowadays, you have surveillance cameras in almost every post office.

So investigators can actually go through, see who delivered these and actually work their way backwards. And one more thing about the U.S. Postal Service, a postal official was speaking earlier this week and said that they go through about 360 pieces -- million pieces of mail a day. And part of that search was actually identifying some of these packages. So there were some envelopes with this suspicious white powder that was actually supposed to get to their destination that never actually got there because they were intercepted by the U.S. Postal Service -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Mark Morales with the latest on that. Thank you so much.

Just days before they were set to take effect, President Trump waived sanctions meant to punish Russia for its ongoing war against Ukraine. How Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is responding to that move next.

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DEAN: President Trump is waiving sanctions related to Russian fossil fuel sales just days before they were due to take effect. An executive order signed by Trump Friday night states it's in the national interest of the United States. But does not explain why or when the waiver will end.

It comes as Trump pressured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to stop striking Russian oil refineries, even as Russian attacks continue on Ukraine's energy infrastructure and civilian buildings. Ukrainian authorities say at least one person was killed and 12 others injured in a strike overnight on a residential neighborhood.

We're joined now by CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Colonel Leighton, thanks for being here with us. Let's start first with the sanctions and the waive -- the waiver of those sanctions. What is -- what message does that send?

[16:35:08]

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Jessica, great to see you again. It's a very clear message to Putin. And it basically sends the message that Putin can go ahead and attack Ukraine with impunity. It's also a message to Ukraine and the European allies that we ostensibly have in NATO.

And that message to the Ukrainians is, you're basically on your own, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned. And for the Europeans, it's a message if they want to protect Ukraine, they need to step up and do that. So it's a -- it's a difficult message for the Ukrainians to take. And it's no wonder that they feel betrayed by it, quite frankly.

DEAN: Putin has vowed to continue targeting Ukraine's infrastructure. A source tells CNN Ukraine has now run out of missiles for the U.S.- made Patriot Air Defense System that's critical for defending against incoming ballistic missiles. Can you explain when and why these Patriot interceptor missiles are used by Ukraine, and what it means that they're saying we're critically low?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So when these missiles -- the Patriot missiles -- especially the PAC-3 missile, they're designed to intercept really hard-to-hit targets. So think of it this way. Think of it as a bullet being used to hit another bullet in mid-air. And that's basically what these missiles can do.

So they're very unique in the sense that they are really almost the only weapon system that's available to the Ukrainians -- at least has been available to the Ukrainians that can hit incoming ballistic missiles. And that is one way in which the Ukrainians can protect their civilian infrastructure. The fact that these missiles are no longer in the inventory is an indication not only of Ukraine's shortage, but basically a worldwide shortage of these weapons, because the defense industrial base has not kept up with the demand.

We used a whole bunch of them in the Iran war. About 65 percent of the inventory that we have was used there. And the Ukrainians, of course, have used some to protect themselves, and they use them quite effectively.

But the fact is, the Ukrainians aren't producing them right now. We are also slow in producing them because it takes a good year or more to produce one of these missiles. And of course, a whole battery of them takes a long time to produce if you don't have the right kind of infrastructure that's set up to do these en masse.

DEAN: And in the meantime, Zelenskyy is saying he's going to continue to target Russian oil refineries, which, as we noted at the top, is something that President Trump is dissuading him from doing, trying to punish him into not doing. How do you assess the effectiveness of that strategy on Zelenskyy's part?

LEIGHTON: So Zelenskyy's strategy is actually quite effective, Jessica, because they are in fact hitting these Russian refineries. And we have to remember that Russia is a major oil producing country. In fact, before their war with Ukraine, they were the world's largest oil producer in terms of the volume that they put out, at least according to some measures.

But the basic thing that is happening here is Zelenskyy is taking a look at Russia's main vulnerabilities. And he knows that from an economic standpoint, as well as from a domestic standpoint, these oil refineries are critical to Russia's not only civilian economy, but also to Russia's war machine. And striking these targets hits the Russians, both in terms of their logistics capabilities, but it also hits them when it comes to their economy. So this is a critical area from a Ukrainian standpoint, exactly the right target set to hit.

DEAN: I also want to ask you about the Starshield. Zelenskyy pushing back against the idea of Starshield is being used for strikes inside Russia. That's, of course, the military grade version of Elon Musk's Starlink internet service, which Zelenskyy says is still not working at full speed today there in Ukraine. What do we know about how this is used by Ukraine and the impacts of that disruption?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So the Starlink and Starshield systems -- especially the Starshield system, is used by the Ukrainians to guide and target their drones and their missiles. So what it does is it affords the Ukrainian's the capability of having a precise targeting mechanism. It allows them to harness the communications links that the Starshield system provides.

And those communications link can precisely -- links can precisely guide the missiles and drones to their intended targets. So it's critical from a Ukrainian -- from the Ukrainian standpoint. And it also allows them to exercise a great deal of command and control.

So just beyond the missiles, what we're talking about is the entire military structure of Ukraine is basically a large part of it is dependent on the ability to communicate via Starshield and Starlink. As far as going into targets in Russia, Ukrainians will argue that this is all self-defense because of the Russian attacks against the Ukrainian civilian infrastructure.

[16:40:13]

DEAN: All right. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much. It's always good to have you here.

LEIGHTON: You bet. Jessica, great to be with you.

DEAN: Thanks. A new documentary just out in theaters this weekend shines a harsh spotlight back on Theranos founder, now convicted prisoner Elizabeth Holmes. After the break, Dr. Sanjay Gupta revisits his exclusive look at the inner workings of her company. Plus, Pope Leo leaves the hospital days after lung cancer surgery. We'll have the latest on his recovery. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:45:21]

DEAN: A new documentary 'You Can See Everything,' on disgraced Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes is now in theaters. She gave the filmmakers extraordinary access as she prepared to report to federal prison in 2023. Holmes was convicted on charges including conspiracy to defraud investors and wire fraud.

Back in 2016, our Sanjay Gupta sat down with her for an exclusive interview. He was the first journalist allowed inside her company to see how its blood testing allegedly worked. He asked some tough questions then, and a decade later, it's almost eerie to hear the answers. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's sort of surprising to literally see screwdrivers and scissors and nails and screws and everything. And this is a -- this is a literally from-the-ground-up sort of operation here.

ELIZABETH HOLMES, FOUNDER, THERANOS: Absolutely.

GUPTA (voice-over): That's Elizabeth Holmes in 2016.

HOLMES: So this is the inside of the mini lab. We could actually run a protocol with a live blood sample.

GUPTA (voice-over): Taking me inside Theranos to reveal the device she hoped would revolutionize blood testing.

HOLMES: We wanted to realize a world in which people are determining the onset of disease in time for therapy to be effective, which is the origin of the word Theranos. No one has ever seen this. You were the first one.

GUPTA (voice-over): She claimed that a mini lab could run a full range of tests on droplets of blood, taken with the prick of a finger.

GUPTA: I'm going to do this myself, Tiffany. Hello?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

GUPTA (voice-over): I even went through the testing process with Holmes by my side.

GUPTA: It's still a needle in there.

HOLMES: Lancet.

GUPTA: A lancet.

HOLMES: Needle has a hole. If we can make it affordable, if we can make it accessible, they can use it to avoid having to say goodbye too soon, and to be able to live better lives.

GUPTA (voice-over): Silicon Valley investors were smitten. After all, the 19-year-old who founded Theranos in 2003, then dropped out of Stanford, had echoes of Steve Jobs.

GUPTA: The portrayal is, look, he was an icon for you. He even dressed like him. You behaved like him to some extent.

The secretive nature of how he was, the reality distortion fields of Steve Jobs, that charisma that got things done even if people didn't fully understand it. Are those fair comparisons?

HOLMES: I mean, I've always said I don't think there is a comparison to Steve Jobs. He was an amazing entrepreneur and an amazing part of the legacy of Silicon Valley. And, you know, I hope to have the privilege of being Elizabeth Holmes and building something around a vision and a dream. That's my dream. And --

GUPTA: I know you're not wearing the black turtleneck today.

HOLMES: We have to talk about the black turtleneck.

GUPTA: A previous chapter.

HOLMES: You know, I was 19 when I started Theranos. I was a young woman in a world in which there aren't a lot of young women. And I didn't want how I looked or what I wore to be what people were paying attention to. And so I dressed in a very conservative way for a very long time, until it became all that everybody was talking about. And then when that became what people was talking about, I changed it because it was never about that.

GUPTA: That's it. Can I hold it? So this is my nanotainer blood. You're able to get all that out of a single finger prick.

GUPTA (voice-over): For what it's worth, that blood test put my cholesterol at 170. My own doctor found it to be 169 just the week before. But things began to collapse outside this lab at retail sites, using the technology. Studies found those results to be inaccurate. Holmes said she never intentionally deceived anyone.

GUPTA: It's probably the most important question I think anybody who's watching has about this. Does it work?

HOLMES: Yes.

GUPTA: You're confident in that?

HOLMES: I am confident in that.

GUPTA (voice-over): But after this interview, an indictment was filed against Holmes and Theranos' president, alleging that they had schemed to defraud investors and that they knew the analyzer had accuracy and reliability problems and only performed a limited number of tests. In 2022, both were found guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elizabeth Holmes was sentenced to 11 years and three months in prison.

GUPTA (voice-over): Even during our interview, there were signs of the trouble to come.

GUPTA: There's this man who goes by the initials RC right now in Arizona who is suggesting that the lab results that he got from Theranos were not accurate, and it led to him having a heart attack. Based on what you know, is it possible that what he's saying is true?

HOLMES: I'm not the lab director. And so --

GUPTA: I know. But, you know, this weighs on you. You're the CEO and founder of the company. I mean, this is a serious as it gets.

HOLMES: What I know is that I've put the best people in place to be able to investigate every aspect of this and ensure that we meet the quality standards that we hold ourselves to. And I know they're doing that.

[16:50:09]

GUPTA (voice-over): By 2014, Holmes was a billionaire on paper, named one of the richest women in America by Forbes magazine. Most fascinating to me, though, the $945 million she raised, even though the investors seemed to have no idea whether or not the technology worked.

GUPTA: Were they confident that it worked? Did they -- did they know? Did they understand?

HOLMES: That's why they invested.

GUPTA: People don't always invest because they know everything. They invest because they've been convinced somehow. They -- the force of one's personality, their charisma, their appeasement. All those terms.

And I'm not sure that I, frankly, still understand all of it. The people who are putting in tens of millions -- hundreds of millions of dollars fully understand Theranos.

HOLMES: The best way to answer that -- the reasons they invested in the first place, right? These are sophisticated investors who chose to come into a startup company based on intellectual property, based on our patent portfolio, based on our mission, based on the people who were here. They chose to come into something that was long term, very intentionally. And that was a very explicit discussion about the nature of this and the magnitude of this.

GUPTA: This sort of hanging out in the window over here. Someone could take a peek in from outside and see what's going on.

HOLMES: Something about this opening up and transparency theme.

GUPTA: Is this a metaphor for that? Put him right there in the open?

HOLMES: I -- unintentional, but yes.

GUPTA (voice-over): A decade after our interview.

HOLMES: I wish I knew.

GUPTA (voice-over): Holmes is back in the spotlight. A new documentary follows her last days of freedom.

HOLMES: I think this is the moment in time to capture this story before I'm gone.

GUPTA (voice-over): Early glimpses show what appeared to be a fragile Holmes days before reporting to prison. I thought back to our interview and this question.

GUPTA: Did you feel beaten up?

HOLMES: We've been beaten up. I don't -- I don't let myself feel beaten up.

GUPTA: You don't have any bruises or anything on you.

HOLMES: No.

GUPTA: But inside you -- I mean, do you -- do you feel beaten up?

HOLMES: I mean, I've been beaten up, right? I mean, it's been horrible.

GUPTA: Does anything prepare you to be able to handle this sort of scrutiny, this sort of adversity?

HOLMES: I don't know if there's a way to be prepared for something like this. I mean, it's really hard, and it's really painful. Either you let it tear you down, or you use it to become better.

And I'm trying to use it to become better. We're trying to use it to become better and to realize even more why we started this in the first place. And this is a dream. This is a mission that has to be realized.

GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Sanjay, thank you for that. Still ahead. Major unrest across France as police clash with protesters during violent demonstrations. CNN'S on the scene with the very latest. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[16:57:36]

DEAN: A fast-moving wildfire in Southern California has scorched hundreds of acres. The Norte fire, now five percent contained, has burned multiple homes and triggered evacuation orders for several parts of Orange County. Aerial footage shows flames racing up a hillside and multiple houses burning on Friday afternoon.

Fire officials tell us two firefighters suffered significant injuries. They're stable in area hospitals, though. The dangerous fire conditions have also prompted utility companies to temporarily shut off -- temporarily shut off power to tens of thousands of customers over concerns that equipment could spark additional fires.

Pope Leo is out of the hospital just four days after undergoing surgery to remove a cancerous growth from his lung. The 71-year-old was discharged after doctors reviewed his X-rays and blood tests. It was just last Sunday when Pope Leo announced he would need that surgery. CNN Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb has more. Christopher.

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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pope Leo looking well as he left the Gemelli Hospital, discharged after doctors said that he could leave hospital following that lung surgery and cancer diagnosis. The pope greeting well-wishers, waving at the crowd that had gathered to see him, and greeting a young Ukrainian girl who had herself been treated for cancer in Italy. Pope Leo trying to get back to work as soon as he can.

He is in the Vatican and due to make his first public appearance on Sunday, leading the angelus in Saint Peters Square. Now, the big question that people are asking in the Vatican is will Pope Leo make this long and strenuous trip to Latin America, scheduled from November 6 to the 17? All the signs are, though, that the Vatican is saying we are going. And this is what the surgeon who treated Pope Leo had to say.

STEFANO MARGARITORA, LEAD SURGEON (through a translator): Since almost a week has already passed, I believe that in another ten days or so the pope could be fully recovered. As for a long trip involving air travel, in about three weeks, I would say there are no clinical reasons why such a trip should not go ahead.

LAMB: So hopefully essentially cleared for travel by his surgeon. He does really want to make this trip because it would mean a kind of homecoming to Peru, a country he served for many years as a missionary and a bishop. But for now, Pope Leo back in the Vatican, taking up his duties again after that lung cancer surgery. Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Christopher, thank you. The next hour of NEWSROOM starts right now.