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IDF Says Majority Of Hostages In Gaza Are Alive; Rep. Tim Burchett (R-TN) On Jordan's Bid For Speakership; Ex-Trump Attorney Sidney Powell Pleads Guilty In Georgia Election Case. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 20, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JON POLIN, SON WAS KIDNAPPED BY HAMAS AFTER ATTENDING MUSIC FESTIVAL (via Webex by Cisco): But, of course, we're humans, we're parents, we're children of parents, and we care about all of the 200 hostages. And the news that maybe the majority of them are alive --

RACHEL GOLDBERG, SON WAS KIDNAPPED BY HAMAS AFTER ATTENDING MUSIC FESTIVAL (via Webex by Cisco): Which means half of them.

POLIN: -- is -- it is -- it's good news. It's --

GOLDBERG: It's better -- it's better than thinking all 200 are dead. But saying the majority of 200 people are alive -- I mean, sure, if 101 of them are alive, I guess that's better than having 200 of them dead. But it's not (INAUDIBLE). And also, we don't know that anyone is getting medical --

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT": I do want to point out and I know exactly what --

GOLDBERG: (INAUDIBLE).

BURNETT: Right. And I know -- I know that Hersch, of course, was serious -- grievously injured in the arm. And I do want you all to know we did ask the IDF, to your point, Rachel, whether majority means half -- just over half -- or whether the majority means all, and they wouldn't elaborate beyond saying majority. So we did try to get more clarity on that.

I wanted to give you a chance to talk about something I know that you had the opportunity to do. With all the frustration and pain and waiting, you did have an opportunity to talk to President Biden. I know it was supposed to be a brief conversation with parents like yourself who are suffering and it went a lot longer than expected because he wanted it to.

Is there anything you can share with us about that conversation?

POLIN: So, a week ago today, although it feels like eight years ago, we got on a call. The U.S. administration told the parents of American hostages that President Biden might get on and, if so, it would be for a few minutes, and the president stayed on with us for 90 minutes.

He listened to us. He cried with us. He got screamed at by people not who were angry at him but just expressing their frustration at the fate of the world and he listened. And he said I understand the importance of screaming and if I need to get back on with you tomorrow for you to scream more, I will do it.

So his empathy has been remarkable. And I'll say beyond that the U.S. administration, Congress, has been saying all of the right things. The empathy is there and I hope that the action is there as well. You know, we're 14 days in and we love getting sympathy and empathy, and hugs. We want action and right now, we have not yet seen it.

BURNETT: Yeah.

Rachel and Jon, how do you feel -- and maybe, I don't know if you have a specific view on it, but knowing that the IDF is about to go in -- they've made that very clear -- knowing that the majority of the hostages are alive, how do you even capture your feelings about that? About them going in and what that could mean for the hostages? How do you feel about that?

GOLDBERG: I mean, we really understand that what happened on October 7 can never happen again. And the whole entire country, us included, is completely traumatized by what happened. And we trust that the army -- that the Israeli army is going to do its very best, as it always tries, to avoid any civilian casualties. War in any situation is a terrible game to play. There is always innocents who get hurt.

And obviously, now, for us personally as parents of someone who is there, we feel it more intensely. But we always feel that no matter where the conflict is taking place anywhere in the world, when you know in Ukraine, that there are innocent people who are in the way when a real conflict is taking place. When it happens here it's the same.

And we are just praying and hoping that innocent lives, including our own child's life, is not harmed in this action that has to happen.

BURNETT: Rachel and Jon, thank you very much for speaking with us, and I know the exhaustion of talking to the media and telling his story is got to be a lot to bear. Thank you very much.

Phil and Poppy, back to you.

GOLDBERG: Thanks for having us.

POLIN: Thank you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thank you very much for that -- for speaking to them and for that update.

Well, the White House is expected to submit an urgent budget request to Congress today to aid the war efforts in both Israel and Ukraine. The House, though, does not have a speaker and without one they cannot get that done. PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Republican Congressman Tim Burchett was one of the eight GOP members who voted to oust McCarthy from the speakership. He promised he'd come back to our show if there was no speaker by Wednesday of last week. It's been nine days -- he's back. We're going to ask him what's up, next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:38:54]

MATTINGLY: Well, in just minutes, Republican Congressman Jim Jordan planning to hold a news conference after two failed attempts, so far, to become the House Speaker. Later today, the House is expected to hold its next vote for that position. And that comes as anger and frustration among Republicans is boiling over.

And I know that sounds evergreen but this one, in particular, was rough. Jordan, the hard-right Republican nominee, appears no closer to getting the gavel this morning after meeting yesterday with mainstream members who oppose that bid.

Now, the vote comes after a day of Republican feuding and dysfunction during a heated closed-door GOP conference meeting. Some members railed against Jordan. Multiple sources told CNN one swore at Congressman Matt Gaetz who led the rebellion against former speaker Kevin McCarthy.

Our next guest is one of the eight Republicans who voted to oust McCarthy, setting in motion this leadership vacuum. And he told me last week he expected the speaker drama to be hashed out the next day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I totally expect us to have a speaker by Wednesday. We will come out of conference united in that.

MATTINGLY: All right, Congressman Tim Burchett. Can you promise me that if you don't have a speaker by Wednesday we can talk about it on Thursday on this show?

BURCHETT: We sure can. And if we are, I'll be gravely mistaken and I'll be very upset.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:40:02]

MATTINGLY: Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee joins me now.

Sir, I'm not playing that to make you look like you didn't have the crystal ball. But to your point that you would be gravely upset, how are you feeling right now as we enter this next day?

BURCHETT: I'm a little tired but it's just the process. And I guess I should have said which week of Wednesday. I didn't -- I didn't make that clear.

But no, it is a process. We followed the rules when we vacated the chair and that's exactly what we did. And those rules were followed to a tee. Now we're just going back in. We're going back in at 10:00 today and get a little closer, I hope.

MATTINGLY: Do you have an endgame to the process? And I know you support Congressman Jordan. I know you would like to see this end today if our speaker-designate got the votes. He doesn't have them. It seems like he's losing more by the day.

What is the process here?

BURCHETT: Well, the process is to let the nominee make that decision. That is the process. That's always been the process.

Kevin was allowed to go 15 rounds and Jim has gone two rounds now. So it's ultimately going to be up to Jim and what he decides to do, and the people that are close to him. Right now, Jim's our nominee and that's who I plan to support. But when Steve Scalise was the nominee, I supported Steve as well when we walked out of that first meeting.

So we'll just see. The party will come together. This will be a blip in our -- in our rearview mirror when we're finished with this. You all will be on to all new scandals by then.

MATTINGLY: I mean, I think the one thing that has me pause a little bit, beyond the lack of precedent for this moment -- and to your point, you followed all the rules -- the eight who voted to vacate.

But moments like this -- my colleague, Jake Tapper, played this voicemail that a member's wife received. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THREATENING MESSAGE TO REPUBLICAN LAWMAKER'S WIFE: He's a (bleep) warmongering piece of (bleep). So listen. You're gonna keep getting calls and emails. I'm putting all your information over the internet now. Everybody else is, and you will not be left alone because your (bleep) husband. Jim Jordan or more conservative, or you're going to (bleep) molested like you can't ever imagine. And again, nonviolently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Congressman, besides how abhorrent that is, I don't understand how the conference comes back from this moment when stuff like that is happening.

BURCHETT: Well, it happens every day. I could show you that where other people have made horrible accusations and things they were going to do to members of my family, and I couldn't even get Capitol Hill Police to respond to my phone calls about it.

So it's a day-to-day occurrence. It happens on the left and the right. I'm conservative. I get those all the time. I've gotten them from elected officials, for goodness' sakes. The FBI has had to step in. So it's a day-to-day thing.

It's horrible. Jim denounced it.

MATTINGLY: Right.

BURCHETT: You just have sick people in this world and they're -- and they're horrible. And they need to have their butts kicked and they need to be thrown in jail.

So, yes, I don't stand for any of that nonsense. That jerk is just a -- here's -- those type of guys, they throw a rock over the fence and they run home behind their momma's skirt. And that's exactly who that dirtbag is and he ought to be pulled in jail and he ought to spend some quality time there and understand his consequences.

MATTINGLY: The -- that --

BURCHETT: Because Bacon -- Gen. Bacon -- Gen. Bacon is a good man. He's a good man. That's ridiculous you call somebody's wife.

MATTINGLY: Right.

BURCHETT: I mean, that shows you how gutless these people are on both sides.

And look, don't judge the party by those. I don't judge the party by -- when Rashida Tlaib says something that I feel is antisemitic. I don't judge the whole Democratic Party for that. So, you know.

MATTINGLY: Oh, no. Sir, to be clear, I'm not judging the party on that. I think it's just a little bit jarring, particularly when you hear it. And I think because it's intraparty, right? And so that's the very serious side of things.

But there's also the very juvenile side of things of members quote- tweeting other members and then blocking members on Twitter. And then --

BURCHETT: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- those members saying that the problem is that members don't have balls. I'm quoting Nancy Mace after she was blocked by you (PH).

This is what I'm talking about. I don't understand how the conference --

BURCHETT: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- comes back together, like you say.

BURCHETT: Well, it's a lot of different personalities. That's what happens when you have a very thin majority. And people's tempers are frayed. And they'll hug and make up and sing Kumbaya, and that's just what people do. But, you know, it's the world we live in now. I mean, it's

instantaneous. We've got these crazy cellphones and people respond immediately. They always used to say if you're going to write something or say something you need to sleep on it for a little while. And obviously, people aren't sleeping on it; they're just firing off.

So it's level of maturity involved in all of this and it's just -- I just -- I just don't get too worked up over it. I've been doing this most of my adult life and I've seen and heard it all.

I've had the death threats. I've had to have security details. I've spent over $30,000 for security at my own house because of my family situation and the threats that we've received. And I've had deputies out at my house. I just don't publicize it.

[07:45:10]

We live in a world of dirtbags and people instantaneously want results and they're just not going to get it. And with cellphones, it gives them a whole new amount of courage. I'm sure you could have a psychologist on here and analyze that.

But again, Gen. Bacon's --

MATTINGLY: Right.

BURCHETT: He's a good man. He is a good man. He's a friend of mine -- and that's ridiculous. I would like to have some words with that person that said that to his wife, personally.

MATTINGLY: I think the good words are sleep on it before you tweet or leave voicemails.

BURCHETT: (INAUDIBLE).

Sir, we appreciate your time. I know it's been a crazy couple of weeks. I hope to have you back soon to talk policy instead of this.

BURCHETT: Right.

MATTINGLY: Does it -- does it get done today?

BURCHETT: I'll see you next Wednesday.

MATTINGLY: Next Wednesday.

BURCHETT: I'll see you next Wednesday

MATTINGLY: Next Wednesday -- all right.

BURCHETT: I pray -- I wake up in the middle of the night and I say my prayers. I say, Lord, I want -- let your will be done, but could you please give us a speaker today?

MATTINGLY: Tim Burchett, congressman from Tennessee. We appreciate it, sir. Thank you. BURCHETT: Thank you, brother -- always.

MATTINGLY: Well, and we do know Congressman Jordan is set to speak at the top of the hour. Stick around for that. We'll be showing it live.

HARLOW: There is anger continuing to spread across the Middle East and around the world. A growing number of anti-Israel and pro- Palestinian protests just as President Biden warns against the rise of islamophobia and antisemitism.

(COMMERCIAL)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

In his prime-time address to the nation last night, President Biden made the case for more wartime aid to Israel and Ukraine. He also warned against the rise of islamophobia as Israel prepares a ground offensive likely into Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I know many of you in the Muslim-American community, the Arab-American community, the Palestinian-American community, and so many others are outraged and hurting, saying to yourselves here we go again with islamophobia and the distrust we saw after 9/11.

[07:50:07]

We must, without equivocation, denounce antisemitism. We must also, without equivocation, denounce islamophobia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And joining us now is Israeli-Palestinian journalist and foreign policy analyst, Rula Jebreal. Rula, thanks for being with us again, especially after those important remarks from the president last night.

This is also something he said in his address that was striking to me -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Tonight there are innocent people all over the world who hope because of us. Who believe in a better life because of us. Who are desperate not to be forgotten by us and are awaiting for us. But time is of the essence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What is our read on how Palestinians still trapped inside Gaza feel when they hear those remarks? Do they feel that support from the United States?

RULA JEBREAL, JOURNALIST AND FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST, VISITING PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: No. But also, Palestinians in the West Bank and in Jerusalem, and the overwhelming majority of the Arab world understand that President Biden -- and that's how they feel in talking to them after last night. They think this was meant for a domestic audience -- for the Americans.

And they see the unconditional aid to Israel. Yes, he cited the two- state solution but he is unwilling to do anything to pressure Israel to stop the free settlement constructions or to rein in some of these very violent settlers that are in the West Bank where Hamas doesn't exist.

So this is what they have been telling me -- that Palestinians don't want charity; they want dignity. They want freedom. They want what the president said about freedom -- self-determination.

And the president cannot back the fight of Ukraine to deliberate them self from a military dictatorship while, in the same time, enable the occupation of Palestinians in the West Bank, in Jerusalem while Israel carry what they are carrying in.

So if those are only words in terms of two-state solution, but not backed by real deed, this will go nowhere, and this will be seen as America's war. Not only Israel war, but this is an American war.

HARLOW: Yeah, you warned about that just a couple of days ago when we had you on.

I think it's notable the president's remarks last night and what happened earlier this week was that the United States was the sole veto of a U.N. Security Council resolution that would have called for a humanitarian --

JEBREAL: Yes.

HARLOW: -- pause in aid before any more offensive -- or ground offensive from the IDF.

And we've just heard in the last 12 hours from the IDF. Quote, "You see Gaza now from a distance. You will soon see it from the inside. The command will come" -- and that is a quote.

How are those you're speaking with -- Palestinians and the Arab world viewing that contrast of the U.S. being the sole veto on this as a ground incursion looks more imminent?

JEBREAL: Well, that's exactly what they talk about when they say American can speak about two-state solution while -- or they can speak about a resolution, or a ceasefire, or humanitarian aid while blocking a U.N. resolution -- Security Council -- and be the only vote to basically veto or not vote -- vote against a humanitarian pause so people can have food, can have water, can have fuel, can have electricity.

And they point out to the fact that America itself considered the use of food as weapon of war -- as a war crime in Ukraine. In the same time, they look at what's happening -- what Israel policy is in Gaza -- and said well, never mind.

So there's a double standard in consistency that is the heart -- at the heart of the issue. So they -- there is no trust that this administration will actually advance. What they perceive -- what they even profess as their own values in terms of two-state solution and resolution, or even --

The region wants to break from the cycle of terrorism and tyranny and America is not doing anything except giving more military aid.

HARLOW: Well, also, tens of millions of dollars in aid meant for the people of Gaza that is still, this morning, blocked from getting in through the southern Rafah Crossing.

But Rula, I do want to ask you about something and ask your significance given your foreign policy expertise in the region.

You now have -- talking about these protests that have now been sort of government-approved in Egypt.

JEBREAL: Yes.

HARLOW: An alliance of state-backed political parties in Egypt calling for protests in support of Palestinians.

The reason I ask this is because this is the first time that you have a government-approved mass protest in Egypt in the last decade. How significant is that?

JEBREAL: It's very serious, Poppy, and that's what -- you know, when they talk about we don't any more charity -- we want freedom and dignity -- they're trying to tell to the president who seems not to be listening to the region of how they perceive this as an existential threat to the entirety of the regions.

[07:55:05]

This will destabilize the region more than ever. It will come to Europe. This created, already, mass radicalization in the past, a mass refugee crisis -- the worst since World War II -- and plunge the whole region in sectarian wars.

They are trying to tell to the administration that you need to talk now to this Israeli government to put on the table something beyond humanitarian aid and more weapons for Israel. The solution has to be a political solution --

HARLOW: Yeah.

JEBREAL: -- which they convey as this is what every security apparatus in Israel said is the only solution.

HARLOW: You mentioned Europe and we did see the U.K. Prime Minister Rishi Sunak in Israel yesterday and also meeting with Saudi officials. Reuters reports he'll go to Egypt today. So a clear focus from them and him on this as well. Rula, thank you, as always.

JEBREAL: Thank you, Poppy. Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, just into CNN, attorney Kenneth Chesebrough, who is charged in the Georgia election subversion case, was just offered a plea deal. The details on that next.

HARLOW: Also, in just a few minutes -- moments from now, Republican Congressman Jim Jordan expected to hold a news conference after two failed attempts to become House Speaker.

(COMMERCIAL)

MATTINGLY: Well, former Trump attorney Sidney Powell pleading guilty in the Georgia election subversion case just one day before her trial was scheduled to start. She's been sentenced to six years of probation after admitting her role on a secret effort to access and copy election software in rural Coffee County.

Powell is now the second of former President Trump's 18 co-defendants in that sweeping racketeering case to accept a plea deal and agree to testify against other defendants.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us now. What does this mean for the former president, I think is the top question on everybody's mind?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, it's not good. That's the basic answer. Whenever you have somebody who is choosing to plead guilty and cooperate, it means that they provide information to prosecutors that the people like Trump and other defendants in this case might not know what that information is until it's put on display at trial when someone like Powell would be called to testify.

And she's a really top person, right, not just in what she's admitting to here related to Coffee County, Georgia and the voting machine attempted breach there. But also, she's somebody that was around Trump and in the White House during the major push to sow disinformation in the court system with the American public -- and was even in the White House in December.

HARLOW: Yeah. That key December 18 meeting.

Look, she, by taking this plea, is going to have to admit things -- she's going to have to admit things like we knew it wasn't stolen. We knew it was a crime, et cetera.

And now, Kenneth Chesebrough has a chance -- who was going to stand trial with her -- to plead out. What's he going to do?

POLANTZ: Right. So the timeline here is important. Powell and Ken Chesebrough, another lawyer, were both set to have jury selection for their trial in Georgia starting today. So, Powell is not going to go to trial. And there is now -- we know through Nick Valencia in Atlanta -- he has learned that Ken Chesebrough has been offered a plea deal and is still thinking about.