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Ceasefire between Israel and Hamas Delayed as Hamas Has Yet to Provide List of Hostage Names to be Released; Israel Defense Forces Detains Director of Al-Shifa Hospital for Questioning on Whether Hamas Used Hospital as Command Center; Head of Medical Team for Hostages Describes Care after Release; Qatar to Announce when Israel-Hamas Truce Begins. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 23, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. We're glad you're with us on this special holiday edition of CNN THIS MORNING. Here's where we start. Israel says that Hamas's hostages will not be released until tomorrow. We are standing by for word from Qatar, the country mediating this deal on when exactly the truce will begin.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: A fire explosion shuts down a significant border crossing with Canada following a speeding Bentley which hit a median and burst into flames. The driver and his wife killed. The FBI saying very clearly this morning this was not be an act of terrorism.

HARLOW: Also, the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, that starts in just half-a-hour. Officials say there are no specific threats around this annual tradition. They are warning of a heightened threat environment, though. This hour of CNN THIS MORNING starts now.

We begin here. We have a team covering this from Tel Aviv to Cairo. And right now, as I mentioned, we're waiting for Qatar to announce when a four-day truce between Israel and Hamas will begin so that those hostages can start to be released. You see them getting ready for this press conference. Obviously, we'll bring it to you as soon as it begins. The pause in fighting, that was expensed to have already begun this morning, but Israeli officials say it has been delayed and no hostages will be freed until tomorrow.

HILL: Part of the deal with Hamas would also allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza. This morning there are convoys, as you can see in this video, of trucks loaded with food, water, and other desperately needed supplies lined up at the border crossing in Egypt.

Earlier today, Qatar said it's prime minister spoke with Secretary of State Antony Blinken on the phone to discuss how this truce agreement will, in fact, play out.

HARLOW: Let's start our coverage this hour with Kaitlan Collins. She is live in Tel Aviv. Do you have any update on the timing as we wait to hear from the Qatari officials?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We're still waiting on the timing, Poppy. Of course, this is something that everyone is looking to, what is the timing of this actually going to look like. Yesterday we had been told that by now this would already be underway. There would be that pause in the fighting in Gaza. These hostages would start being released in a six-hour window. We have not seen that happen yet. That does not mean that it is not going to happen. There have essentially been some last-minute hiccups. One of them seems to center around the fact that Hamas had yet to turn over a list of names to Israel when it came to the names that they were going to be turning over, those first 10 or so hostages in that initial release.

So what we're waiting to hear at this press conference here. You see that empty podium there Qatar, is to hear if there is any update on this timing. And the reason these officials will be the ones to know is because they have been the ones negotiating the entire deal, basically, acting as the intermediary between Hamas and Israel. And so we will be waiting to see what that line of communication looks like, whether or not there are expected to be any other delays. Last night we heard from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet. That had not seemed to be the case in that point in time. Instead he was defending this decision, and so was the minister of defense, essentially arguing that they said it was a tough one, because what they are doing here is not only getting 50 hostages at least released, but they are also in exchange giving back 150 Palestinian prisoners. And that is something that they said was a difficult decision for them to make. The majority of the names on that list of 300 people that they had produced were 16 to 18-year-old males. And so that is something that's a part of this.

And so there's still a lot of questions about what this is going to look like. And the reason this initial day of this hostage deal is going to be so important, Poppy and Erica, is because essentially it is going to serve as a template for what the next days could look like. There is no precedent for what this is going to look like when it comes to getting these hostages together, getting them released, getting them through Rafah crossing and back here into Israel.

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And so that is really going to be key to see how that day works and whether or not -- what it means for the release of additional hostages in, hopefully, the days to come after that.

HILL: Absolutely. Kaitlan, also the IDF has just finally confirmed that it did, in fact, detain the director of the Al-Shifa hospital. What more do we know about why the director was detained?

COLLINS: Well, for weeks we have been hearing the IDF say that they believed that Hamas used the Al-Shifa Hospital which is in Gaza City, one of the biggest hospitals in Gaza, as essentially a command and control center. They had this entire 3-D template that they showed at a briefing one day of what they believed Hamas's infrastructure underneath that hospital looked like. We haven't seen the extent of what that showed, but they have shown

tunnels and videos that they say stretch underground of the Al-Shifa hospital that they say links back to that hospital. So we are now hearing from the IDF that they have detained the director of that hospital. They want to know what his, quote, involvement was in those tunnels and what you saw underneath that hospital. He is being questioned, they say, by the Israeli security agency. And depending on essentially what he tells, they say, will determine whether or not there is going to be further questioning here.

The question is whether or not there is going to be outrage over this given this is the director of the hospital. We've heard from other hospital officials, doctors, who they don't work there all the time. I'm thinking of Dr. Ghassan Abu-Sitta who is a British Palestinian doctor that went in after October 7th to help treat patients. He said that he had no knowledge of this. But obviously this is going to be a question that Israel has for this director of this hospital.

One thing that we should note is we're speaking of hospitals and speaking of places that desperately need aid. It is any medical center that is still able to operate in Gaza right now. So many of them can't because they don't have those crucially needed supplies. That is a major part of the deal that we're not talking about enough. It's the humanitarian aid that is expected to part of this hostage deal going into Gaza. CNN's Eleni Giokos is live in Cairo where we're expecting to see that aid go in once this deal does begin. Eleni, I wonder, have the drivers of these trucks, have officials there on the ground heard anything about the timing here?

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: We don't know about the timing, but we know what we're seeing, and we're seeing huge convoys of trucks carrying a lot of aid. And frankly, that has now been ratcheting up over the past couple of days. And more than what we've seen, listen, we've heard from Egyptian side of the border, our team on the ground saying that two fuel trucks have already entered Gaza. That's the normal quota that we've been seeing over the past few days. But it's the big question on the aid.

Now, this truce is going to allow a lot more to get into the Gaza Strip which is desperately needed. And you've alluded to some of that. We know medical supplies are completely running out, food, water, and, importantly, fuel. We actually spoke to one little Palestinian boy that was injured and was evacuated into Egypt, and this is what he thought about the four-day truce. Take a listen.

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MOHAMED KHALED, LOST LEG IN ISRAEL AIRSTRIKE ON GAZA (through translator): I want them for extend it to a full humanitarian truce so we can live free and safe. Four days will not be enough to even bury the martyrs.

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GIOKOS: And the Norwegian Refugee Council echoing that, that four days is not enough. They are calling for a right out ceasefire. So too are international aid organizations. Martin Griffiths on CNN last night were saying that they negotiate daily with the Egyptians, but also with Israel, and they're saying that the number of fuel trucks, of food, of medical supplies, basically opening of new crossings has to come with negotiations with Israel, that Israel has the final say. So this truce, Kaitlan, is going to be pivotal in getting more aid in.

COLLINS: Yes, that's obviously such a critical part of this that is so meaningful to people like the children you saw there, others there who want this aid so desperately to go in. Eleni, thank you so much for that. We'll continue to check back in with you in Cairo.

Poppy, obviously this is desperately needed aid for so many of those people in Gaza who are going without basic humanitarian supplies at this point.

HARLOW: And I think that you are right, Kaitlan, that is a huge part of this deal that has not, certainly, been in the headlines as much as obviously the release of hostages, but it is crucial. We'll get back to you very soon.

And for weeks these hostages have lived in isolation away from their homes and families. Hadas Kalderon had two of her children kidnapped on October 7th along with their father. Our Clarissa Ward spoke with her.

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HADAS KALDERON, MOTHER OF HOSTAGES: Every day, all day is tough. I don't want to think, I don't want to feel because it is too painful.

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You know, when they start to ask me, like interview like you, show me the picture of your child, tell me last thing he told you. It break my heart because the last thing he told me was, mom, be quiet. I love you. He was worried for me.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When you think of, God willing, your babies come home and are part of this release, do you worry about how they will be changed by what they have experienced?

KALDERON: They are changed. They won't be the same.

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HARLOW: As a mother, she knows. And when the hostages are released, a team of doctors will help them recover from this traumatic experience. One of those who will help them try to reenter society is Dr. Hagai Levine, head of the medical team for Hostages and Missing Families Forum, and he joins us from Tel Aviv. Doctor, thank you, thank you for being with us. Just listening to Hadas right there speak with our colleague Clarissa Ward says it all. She knows as a mother her children will be forever changed. How do you even start to help them?

DR. HAGAI LEVINE, HEAD OF MEDICAL TEAM, HOSTAGES AND MISSING FAMILIES FORUM: We are here for them, Poppy and Erica, all the time. And they need us. The families are in right now a working position throughout the last more than six weeks, and now these days, it is so complicated for them, they don't know what is going to happen. Every delay of even one more day is very, very challenging for them. They don't know how their beloved will come back. And we are -- with all the families, I must say, that all the families need support.

And you said about the Red Cross visit to the other hostages, regardless of any agreement, that is basic right of anyone that was abducted, innocent people who were abducted, to receive the visit to be treated properly and to provide families with sign of life. That must be done. And we are with all the families, and the process of the recovery for those who will come back with, God willing, this week will be very, very difficult. We are going to stick to the principles of being professional, being personal, to meet the personal needs and to be patient because we cannot take care of all the deficiencies at once.

HILL: And you put it in, I think, such excellent terms, but it's really stark when you noted yesterday everything that these hostages will be facing when they come out. It is not just that they have likely been in the dark for now a month-and-a-half. It's people who may have been without medication, critical medication. Some of them without shoes, maybe without their glasses, their contact lenses, they can't see. And they also may not know the extent of what happened on October 7th. How do you begin, and when do you even begin to have those conversations?

LEVINE: Yes. Obviously, to be patient, to be specific, tailor made. And for children, what it is like for children? Think about Abigail, just three-and-a-half years old, so both parents murdered. We don't know who took care of her, what is in her mind. And that is something that will take a long time to bring back trust in the kindness of people and the support that the families get from all around the world is helpful for the families to feel that they are not alone.

When the hostages come back, they were treated as objects, not as humans, by the Hamas. We need to bring back the humanity. I must tell you, it is in a sense some reminding of the survivors of the Holocaust. That's the kind of unique situation, and we don't know happened. Some of them don't have a home to return to because in Be'eri and other places, the entire communities and their homes were literally burned. So yes, it will be very difficult. We need to be sensitive and just imagine the process, because they're not going to immediately go to a safe place. They start from Hamas, maybe to another Hamas person, to the Red Cross, to the IDF, and then hospital and then to community. It is going to be a long and slow recovery. But we will be there to support them, to support the families.

HARLOW: I was intrigued by something you said yesterday, and that is that you actually have learned a lot, professor from the experience of Yocheved Lifshitz, the 85-year-old hostage who was released by Hamas. What did you learn that will guide how you care for the other hostages as they come home?

LEVINE: Well, it is really specific things. You know, like she mentioned the issue of the lights. She said it was really dark.

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And when you go outside and you get to a hospital, so much light. So, you need just to dim the light, you know.

Also, I met another hostage who was released. And I will tell you, I asked after we spoke for some while, I asked when we said goodbye, could I hug? And she said, no, I prefer not. And that's of course, completely fine, but we all want to hug them, but maybe they don't want to be hugged.

And she said, "Remember that other people may not have the power to tell you I don't want to be hugged." So, we need to be very sensitive. For example, the instructions regarding children that may be difficult for them to walk, not to take them, but to ask them, do you want me to hold you and to help you?

Because maybe they are afraid, maybe they don't want to be taken. Again, we need to bring back to them their control over their body, and over their life. It's a really slow, complicated recovery, I know that the hospitals in Israel have been preparing, but we will need to work together and also with the families, because for the families, it seems like, okay, now we are so happy.

But many of them still family members are still being kept hostage and they would come and also want to hug. So, we love to be very patient with everyone. And again, I must remind you, that we will care for those who are released, but we will not care for those who remain hostage and don't get the medical and psychological support they need.

And maybe they don't know if people that left are left because they are released or because they are going to be killed, it's going to be very difficult for them. That's why the Red Cross visit is so necessary, always and now more than ever.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Yeah, it really is, and everyone's trying to get some clarity on will the Red Cross be given access to the hostages. Professor Hagai Levine, thank you very much for talking to us, but from what you've been doing to help those who need it most.

LEVINE: Thank you so much. We all have our hopes for good news.

HARLOW: All of us.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Yeah well, as those families do anxiously wait for word on whether their loved ones will be among the 50 hostages who are set to be released. There is now some criticism of that hostage deal. We're going to discuss that with former Trump National Security Advisor John Bolton, just ahead.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: Israel is now saying no hostages will be released before Friday, and that the four-day pause in fighting is, understandably, also delayed. The deal itself has sparked criticism from some, including Former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton, who posted this on social media.

"The Israel-Hamas hostage deal", he writes, "Is counterproductive, as long as this ceasefire is in place, Israel's ability to eliminate Hamas is sidelined. Hamas will use this time to their advantage, preparing for their next stage of combat." John Bolton joins us now.

Good to have you with us this morning, so, in your words, you call the deal counterproductive. Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday said very clearly that the IDF, and in his words, all security establishments fully support this outline. He believes this is the right deal for right now.

AMB. JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think he's wrong, and I think the situation isn't irreparable, but a lot depends on what happens coming out of it. There are many, many aspects of this deal that are wrong.

But here is what I think is the most problematic, the game that's being played here is Hamas couldn't care less about a humanitarian pause. What they're interested in is getting a pause started and then extending it to become a truce, and then extending it further to become a ceasefire.

Now, that may not happen all at once, but Hamas benefits more than the Israeli Defense Forces do by having this pause because when the conflict begins again, as Prime Minister Netanyahu said it was, the blame will be placed on Israel. We already see resolve in the White House slackening to achieve what Israel said was its objective, which is a legitimate objective of self-defense, and that's the elimination of Hamas.

Hamas is playing for time to prevent that from happening. Now, this one event isn't going to be dispositive, but if the pattern continues, it's a very dangerous road to have gone down. Quite apart from everything else that's wrong with this deal.

HILL: So, in terms of that pattern that you're speaking to, are you specifically talking about this initial four-day pause, which, as you pointed out, and as we have heard from officials, could be extended, which would then allow for more hostages to be released?

You pointed out the Prime Minister has said the fighting will resume. But are you concerned that that may not happen?

BOLTON: Sure, look at what's wrong with exactly that provision in the deal. Who in their right mind allows their adversary, their enemy, to determine the length of the ceasefire? And by the way, when the end of the four days come and Hamas says, well, we can't produce ten hostages tomorrow, but we'll produce five, I mean, you can see how this can play out. I don't expect it to happen all at once, but I do expect several

iterations of this, that we'll see the White House, which is desperately fearful of the pressure from the Democratic left, the pro- Palestinian Democratic left on the President's reelection chances.

People need to stand up and say one way or another, do you believe that it is legitimate for Israel to achieve the objective of eliminating Hamas? Because a lot of the people pushing for the slash ceasefire don't believe that's a legitimate objective, that's really where the nub of this lies.

HILL: So, you're talking about this too, as if this was a deal that was simply made by the United States. But it's important to point out that while we know there have been significant talks for weeks, and sometimes on the hour, as we have learned from our reporting, the Prime Minister in Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, was clear.

He says this was all about Israel's tough negotiations. Those are his words, he talked about heavy diplomatic pressure and specifically asking Joe Biden to do things at his request.

BOLTON: Sure, look, Bibi's under enormous political pressure at home, not because of the hostage situation, but because of domestic Israeli politics. And I will guarantee you that the real pressure here came from the Biden White House.

Of course, Netanyahu is going to announce it as a positive development, he doesn't have any choice.

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HILL: What do you think we're going to hear in terms of when this deal could be started? We were told this morning by different representatives that this is really sort of technical, right? Getting all the ducks in a row is what it sounds like. We're waiting for this announcement.

Do you believe that it could, in fact, happen on Friday?

BOLTON: Well, I don't know, I mean, I have a strong belief in Hamas's utter cynicism that goes along with its depravity. And I think the idea that you string this out and you hear these endless tales about, obviously, the anguish that the families are going through, they're just upping the pressure on Israel not to get back into active military hostilities.

And I would say also the exuberance about all this aid coming into Know. When Herbert Hoover began the first American international relief effort in World War I, he had two basic principles. Number one, aid must not go to combatants, only to noncombatants, and the aid must be distributed or monitored by the donors.

Have all those trucks been monitored independently? Do we know Hamas will not seize the aid once it gets into Gaza? You know, these are things you never hear anything about, but you need to worry that those trucks aren't really supplying Hamas. HILL: So, there have been specific discussions about the fuel in

particular and how that will be monitored and where it will be going. I'm curious, as we look at everything that's happening in the region, we have news this morning, of course, that a US warship shot down multiple one-way attack drones that had been launched from Houthis- controlled areas of Yemen.

It's just the latest example of rising tensions in the region. As we see all of this rising in tension, is there a concern in your mind that this could escalate into a broader conflict for the region?

BOLTON: It's not rising tension, and it's not about a broader conflict. This is the Iranian ring of fire strategy playing out. We don't know exactly what will happen, but I can tell you this. The Houthi rebels in Yemen would not have two rocks to rub together against Israel if it weren't for Iran.

In the north, we've now seen almost seven full weeks of Hezbollah attacking targets in northern Israel. This is all part of a larger effort. We don't know the exact dimensions of it, but the conflict is real. And it's not a Hamas versus Israel war.

It's a war against one of America's closest allies, coordinated by one of our worst enemies.

HILL: John Bolton will have to leave it there this morning, thank you for your time.

BOLTON: Thank you.

HARLOW: We do have this breaking news to share with you, rescue crews in India are getting closer to reaching those 41 men who have been trapped in the collapsed Himalayan Tunnel for more than eleven days. An Indian official said that once the workers have been reached it could take another two to 3 hours to bring them out.

The trapped workers have been getting food, water, and oxygen through a pipe after the entrance to the tunnel they were building gave way, we'll keep you posted.

HILL: The FBI says it does not see a link to terrorism after a car crash and exploded at a US-Canada border crossing on Wednesday afternoon. The very latest details on that incident, are just ahead.

HARLOW: And the balloons are ready, the crowd is gathered here in New York City for the annual Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. It is set to begin just a few minutes from now, we'll take you live the parade route.

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