Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Springfield Overwhelmed by Threats; Mark McKinnon is Interviewed about Another Assassination Attempt on Trump. Aired 6:30- 7a ET

Aired September 16, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:53]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've had three consecutive days of threats. The sheriff's department did go back through the last 11 months, and we just have no verifiable claim that this has actually happened. Your pets are safe in Springfield, Ohio. They absolutely are. It's just - it's - it's crazy I have to keep saying that.

It would be helpful if they understood the weight of their words and how they could harm a community like ours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Local officials from Springfield, Ohio, begging Donald Trump and J.D. Vance to stop spreading false claims about Haitian migrants eating pets in their city. This morning, in- person classes at two colleges in Springfield have been canceled after one school received a bomb threat and a threat of a potential shooting targeting members of the Haitian community. It comes after two Springfield hospitals were also placed on lockdown on Saturday following bomb threats to those facilities.

Ohio senator, and vice presidential candidate, J.D. Vance, who helped spread the rumor that was ultimately repeated by Donald Trump on the national debate stage last week, told our Dana Bash that he still stands by these now debunked claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The American media totally ignored this stuff until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat memes. If I have to -

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: But it wasn't just a meme, sir.

VANCE: If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that's what I'm going to do, Dana, because you guys are completely letting Kamala Harris coast. BASH: You just said that this is a story that you've created.

VANCE: Yes.

BASH: So - so the - the eating dogs and cats thing is not accurate?

VANCE: We are - we - we are creating - we are - Dana, it comes from firsthand accounts from my constituents. I say that we're creating a story, meaning we're creating the American media focusing on it.

I didn't create 20,000 illegal migrants coming into Springfield thanks to Kamala Harris' policies. Her policies did that. But, yes, we created the actual focus that allowed the American media to talk about this story and the suffering caused by Kamala Harris' policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And joining our panel now is CNN chief political correspondent and the anchor of "STATE OF THE UNION" and "INSIDE POLITICS," Dana Bash.

Dana, good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello.

HUNT: In the interview -

BASH: Are you going to yell - are you going to yell at me?

HUNT: I don't plan to, nor - nor will you ever be told to shut up on our set.

BASH: I'm just teasing. Thank you, Kasie.

HUNT: We're so grateful to have you.

This was quite an interview. And, I mean, he - he did hit on part of what has made me turn this story over in my head so many times, which is that there is certainly a policy argument to be made -

BASH: Exactly.

HUNT: Around all of the issues with immigration that the city of Springfield is facing. But the reality of what they have done in terms of eating pets is having real-world implications for the thousands, possibly tens of thousands of people who go to school in this community, who need hospitals in this community. And there he seemed to acknowledge, well, we created this.

BASH: Yes. Yes. I mean there was kind of a pregnant pause when I heard him say, if we have to create stories, then that's what we'll do. When I said, what, you created a story, and then he kind of - I think he realized what he said and - and moved on and went after me again.

But I think even just kind of, if you take a step back, what he did at the beginning of our interview, Kasie, was take issue with the fact that I quoted the mayor of Springfield, and this is before we had him on. We brought him on after - after the interview. But I quoted him from a few days earlier where he was pleading with federal officials not to say this because they are putting the lives of the residents is Springfield in danger. And then Vance then sort of accused me of telling him that he's inciting violence.

Well, this is not me. Again, this is my reporting. And this - and then the mayor of Springfield came on again -

HUNT: Yes, well you had him there at the top, right?

BASH: Came on again afterwards to say - and, look, I think that's really the point. And you nailed it right at the beginning here, is that it's not as if there aren't real discussions that should be had about what is a legal, not illegal, a legal program that was signed into law, not by - not by Joe Biden, but was signed into law earlier by, I believe it was by Bush, but - but was definitely done way before Joe Biden.

[06:35:19]

It is true that Joe Biden's administration has decided that because things are so dire in Haiti, which is basically run by gangs now, that they should be given the ability to have temporary status, be given parole in order to get into the country.

And it is also true, because I did some reporting about this, a lot of it, on Saturday before this interview, that there are a lot of employers in Springfield who are so grateful to have these Haitian migrants there because they were trying to grow the economy in Springfield, which had been decimated in the '70s and '80s, and they didn't have workers to help do that. Now, they do.

Questions about integrating in schools and with language and taking drivers tests, changing the laws, those are really legitimate questions. Eating dogs and cats, that is steeped in racist tropes and that's - there's no way - there's no other way to say it.

HUNT: Yes.

Alex Thompson, do you have any reporting, or have you had conversations about how things are going between Donald Trump and J.D. Vance when he is out there doing things like this where he is basically saying, well, we created this and then trying to backtrack and kind of the way that he is handling these kinds of things?

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, this is why - this is - this is not a bug, but part of the reason why J.D. Vance was picked. And actually, I think J.D. Vance is running the Trump playbook. There is sort of a truism through Trump's entire life that all attention is good attention. Even - and, honestly, the - this latest example of what Springfield, Ohio, it reminds me very much of 2015, 2016 Trump, talking about a Mexican judge can - a Mexican judge can't treat him fairly, throwing out just race-baiting attempts because it changes the conversation. And now we've spent the last five days talking about Springfield,

Ohio. Obviously, trying - talking about these unverified claims and denouncing their race-baiting. But we've been talking about Springfield, Ohio, the last five days instead of the debate performance, where, honestly, like Kamala sort of kicked his butt.

HUNT: Let's watch, Dana, a little bit of what Josh Shapiro had to say on "STATE OF THE UNION" in reaction to your Vance interview. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): The United States senator from Ohio just came on your show and blamed his own constituents for his own lies. This guy is so pathetic.

This has now taken on a life of its own because of what they incited and people's lives are at risk because of J.D. Vance. This guy should know better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, Dana, God forbid something actually happens in Springfield, Ohio, if one -

BASH: Yes.

HUNT: Somebody follows through on one of these threats.

BASH: I mean you - well, you've been talking about the fact that there have been, I think, today again, there are colleges there that are closed, schools that are closed, hospitals that had bomb threats. And, look, it's - it is dangerous. I mean there's no other way to say it. And it's again, not just me saying it. It's the mayor of Springfield, the sheriff there, begging people, just this is fixable. The governor, Republican governor. Now, he's definitely gone sideways with Donald Trump in his - in his whatever Trump's eight years in the public spotlight. But he - we covered Mike DeWine when he was a senator. I mean he is one of the most conservative members -

HUNT: He is not a liberal guy.

BASH: Of the Republican Party. And he is somebody who very much supports this program, to have the Haitians come into Ohio. But he also is working very hard to help integrate into the community, helping with resources and not talking about cat memes.

HUNT: Yes. Well, Shermichael Singleton, lets watch a little bit of what Mike DeWine had to say over the weekend about this very issue.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): This discussion about Haitians eating dogs, it's just not helpful. And again, these people are here legally. They're here legally. And they want to work. And they are, in fact, working. And when you talk to the employers, what the employers tell you is, you know, we don't know what we would do without them.

We have hate groups coming in and talk - this - this discussion just has to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Shermichael.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, the governor's right. I mean if, from a policy perspective, and I would probably have advised Vance and Trump, look, could you argue that this is a microcosm of some of the issues across the country with immigration about integrating individuals because of cultural differences, you can certainly make that argument and say, look, look at the result of Springfield because of Biden-Harris policies. We need to fix this. I think intellectually most people can say, all right, that makes a whole lot of sense.

But when you are not doing that and you're making arguments that are steeped in obvious racism, it turns off a whole lot of people. Strategically, you have to bring in people from the middle. And we've already seen, for months now, that Trump is still sort of struggling with getting some of those moderate-leaning Republicans.

[06:40:02]

Yes, they're - you know, there's still some, they're still sitting on the fence, not sure if they're going to vote for Harris or sit at home. But if you know you need to bring those people over in a state like Pennsylvania, in a place like maybe North Carolina, which is now competitive. I'm looking at the data and I'm wondering, who are those voters? What type of profile do they fit in? And this type of rhetoric, does it turn them off? And I would say that it probably does.

HUNT: Yes.

Well, Meghan.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: Oh, I was just going to say, and I also, your point about the rhetoric earlier, like, something's going to happen. It - like, all of this is all tied together. So, all of the rhetoric is -

SINGLETON: Yes.

HAYS: Like, these people in Springfield are now being threatened by their own senator who they elect to go to Washington to advocate for them in this horrible way. And it's just this - something bad is going to happen. It's just a matter of time.

HUNT: Well, and, Dana, I thought it was - I mean DeWine used the phrase hate groups -

BASH: Yes.

HUNT: To describe the people that were coming in here. Clearly picking up on the -

BASH: Yes. The - well, yes. And, I mean, forgive me, but there were reports on Saturday of Proud Boys been there. And I think that was what he was referring to. And I don't know that it was a lot, but that's another thing I brought up with J.D. Vance. Whether it's one Proud Boy or 12, is this really what you want? He did denounce the Proud Boys and talked about their hateful rhetoric, but, you know, this is the kind of thing -

HUNT: Clearly there are those elements that are listening to what they are saying.

BASH: Right below the surface. And now they're rearing their heads.

HUNT: Yes. All right, Dana Bash, so grateful to have you this morning.

BASH: Thank you.

HUNT: Thank you so much.

Everyone else is going to stick around. And coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING, we've had two assassination attempts in two months. We're going to speak with the creator of Paramount's "The Circus" about this dangerous new political reality.

Plus, the Harris campaign going full T. Swift after her endorsement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's really great to have all of these women help us beat the smallest man in the world, Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:46:06]

HUNT: All right, 45 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

The Senate is set to vote on a measure this week that aims to require insurance companies to cover IVF treatments. It's the second time the Senate will vote on the bill, but the first time only two Republicans joined efforts to pass the legislation.

The U.S. Coast Guard kicking off a two-week hearing today into the 2023 implosion of the Titan submersible. Former employees of the company that owned the Titan are scheduled to testify. Five crew members were killed. And it, of course, sparked a debate about the future of private undersea exploration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the Emmy goes to "Shogun."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: We heard that name a lot at last night Emmy's awards as "Shogun" won for best drama series and the top awards for best actor and actress. The show ended up winning 18 total Emmys, the most for any show ever in its first season.

All right, let's turn now to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): Say it in the street. That's a knockout. But you say it in a tweet, that's a copout. And I'm just like, hey, are you OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Are you OK?

Donald Trump taking on pop icon Taylor Swift after she endorsed Kamala Harris after last week's debate. Trump not mincing words. He posted this, quote, "I hate Taylor Swift," end quote. The Harris campaign is obviously embracing the endorsement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALZ: Here's my life hack for all of you. All the guys out there, whatever, here's my life hack. Surround yourself with smart women and listen to them and you'll do just fine.

That includes my fellow cat owner, Taylor Swift.

It's really great to have all of these women help us beat the smallest man in the world, Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, the panel's back.

Shermichael Singleton, the wisdom of saying, I hate Taylor Swift?

SINGLETON: You know what, I actually went to Truth Social to read some of the comments from people on there. I was surprised. A lot of Trump's followers were saying, what in the hell are you doing? This isn't really necessary. Just ignore her. Talk about the policies. I mean these are people who love the former president and follow him.

I agree with that commentary and advice. It's just not necessary. I mean we were talking here during the break about some of the advantages for Trump and disadvantages for Vice President Harris. And I do think he - he has a strong case to make on some issues where that 16 percent of people in some states, or 10 percent in other states are saying, you know what, look, I'm not necessarily sure I want to vote for Harris. I want to hear more from Trump on policies. This doesn't help, Kasie.

HUNT: Meghan, I mean, it does - like, it's - it's interesting to me because I feel like other Republicans have actually been really careful not to like insult Taylor Swift, even if they are like discounting - like, here's J.D. Vance, for example, who, as, you know, our previous segment shows, not really afraid of, you know, saying things that will sparked controversy. Here's what he said about Swift.

Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: We admire Taylor Swift's music. But I don't think most Americans, whether they like her music, are fans of hers or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, he says, perhaps fairly, you know, she's a billionaire. She lives a different life than other people. But he does say, we admire Taylor Swifts' music.

And Matt Gaetz was in the spin room after the debate saying that he likes Taylor Swift's music. Doesn't like, you know, like her politics. That seems to be a way to thread this needle that Donald Trump is now all of a sudden - like he can't not go there.

HAYS: Yes, absolutely. And we also saw after she posted her endorsement for the vice president, that over 400,000 people went to the - the site to register to vote. I mean that's a large number of people that all of a sudden she's activating. And we still have, what, five weeks left or six weeks left of the campaign where just more people and the more you are just drumming up hatred for her, the more her supporters are going to register to vote and get involved.

So, it's just - it seems a little odd that he can't figure out how to thread the needle here, that he's - that his ego is that fragile.

[06:50:05]

HUNT: Alex Thompson, I mean, this is one of these things too where, you know, you never want to raise something that - I guess I'm now thinking about this post in the context of what we then saw happen later on in the day yesterday. Violence has become a part of this election cycle. And when you say that you hate someone, and it's clear that there are people in the real world that are willing to take action on your behalf, even - like, when it's just words from you, this ends up being in the real world. And we - obviously, there was a terrorist threat against a Taylor Swift concert in Austria. It seems like maybe everybody should be steering clear of rhetoric like this, period.

THOMPSON: Yes, but I would not bet on that the last six weeks of the election. The fact is that we - like, the - the rhetoric is likely to get more angry and more potentially toward political violence these next six weeks than less. We are really marching into a tinderbox these next six weeks. And the fact is that there is a significant chance of political violence on every side here. The FBI is also - sort of has said there's blaring red lights in terms of violence going on.

And the one thing I was just going to add to your guys conversation about Trump is, Trump is just unable psychologically of letting any slight, real or perceived, to ever go unanswered. And this has been something that's been going on for nine years. And you saw Kamala Harris really use that to great effect during the debate, whether or not it was talking about his crowd rally sizes, or even the fact that she cited, you know, University of Pennsylvania experts to contradict him. And Donald Trump went to UPenn and she knew that. And you saw that he was unable to not respond and not even get on a message because of that.

HUNT: Yes. I mean, I have to say, that was the thing that stood out to me in the debate, like, how is it that he's - he just - he doesn't - he doesn't - he doesn't resist it?

HAYS: It's incredible, and it's also, again, to your point earlier, how is this attracting the voters in the middle? How is he going to win with his strategy because it's - it's not attracting any of these undecided voters that are in the middle that are going to decide this election. All he's doing is riling up his base and inciting violence on - in horrible rhetoric.

HUNT: Yes. Shermichael.

SINGLETON: I mean, look, his base is enthusiastic about voting for him again. There is no doubt about that. The numbers are there. They're ideologues, though. When you're looking at the folks in the middle, they're not necessarily tied to a particular candidate's ideology. They want some objectivity. They want to see how you're going to guide the country forward based upon their concerns.

That has to be the answer coming from Trump. And he's just not doing that as effectively as he could have. Even during that debate, there were a ton of moments. He could have gone after the vice president on a lot of issues. And I was surprised by the fact that he just couldn't quite get it across the finish line.

HAYS: Yes.

HUNT: All right, let's turn back now to the developments out of Palm Beach, Florida, just 65 days after the July attempt on Donald Trump's life during that rally in Pennsylvania. The country, once again, rocked by a second apparent assassination attempt on the former president's life.

The back-to-back incidents have already given way to frustration and finger-pointing. On Capitol Hill, lawmakers demanding answers as they confront this violent new normal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): I've talked to members of both parties, and people just don't get it. They don't understand how we're in this situation for a second time. It is shaking the confidence, quite frankly, in our institutions. And that is something that's hard to explain to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Joining us now is Mark McKinnon, former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain's campaign, also creator of Paramount's "The Circus."

Mark, thank you so much for being here. Always great to have you. Although, of course, the topic today, another difficult one.

What do - how do you see what we saw happen on the golf course yesterday? This is, obviously, the second time in two months. And as we face down these final days of the campaign, I mean we've been noting here that the rhetoric seems unlikely to cool down considering the circumstances.

MARK MCKINNON, CREATOR, "THE CIRCUS": Well, listen, the bad news, Kasie, is that it happened. And - and it's - is just tragic. The good news is that the system worked. But the bad news is, we need more protection. And the - but the good news again is that there's been a truly bipartisan response to the notion that we need additional resources. People like Ro Khanna, the most progressive member of the Democratic caucus, is out there saying we need to look at this. And if we need more resources, we need it immediately. So, there's a real bipartisan response.

So, there's no question that there's great concern about this. We have 50 days left. We want to enhance the security for both candidates in any way possible. And that's a bipartisan response. And let's do it and let's do it immediately. And let's turn down the heat. We don't need people like Elon Musk out there creating situations where people are hearing bat signals in the wrong way.

[06:55:04]

HUNT: Yes, no, and you're referring, of course, to what Elon Musk tweeted in response to this. It was a tweet that he had to then pretty quickly delete after it seems like the community, on his own platform, was not interested in hearing what he had to say.

And, Mark, I mean, the thing about kind of how the entire environment is right now, what's going on in Springfield, Ohio, for example, that the rhetoric that is being used is generating real-world threats against colleges, against hospitals, and schools in that community, I mean, what does that say about our politics? And, you know, I often want to say, this isn't who we are. We've never been here before. I - it doesn't actually seem to be the case. There have been moments of violence in the past. But the way we communicate, the speed with which all of this moves, the ability of people to do kind - these kinds of things, to absorb the information that's necessary to actually do something in the real-world, that has changed. MCKINNON: It has changed. I mean we've truly clawed our way to the

bottom, Kasie. And what - the other story we're talking about right now, of course, is J.D. Vance and the latest evolution of the cat story where he said to your correspondent, Dana Bash, that they - he's creating stories. They - another way of saying that is, yes, we lie. We lied about a story, we made it up, in order to bring attention to a story that we think needs attention. That's problematic when you're lying about a story that didn't really happen, creating a negative impression of people in your community that's not true, and now you have college is shutting down and all kinds of real threats to people's safety in that community. That's a problem.

HUNT: Yes.

Mark, let me ask you to weigh in also on the conversation that we were just having here about Taylor Swift and what Donald Trump had to say about her. The Truth Social post was, "I hate Taylor Swift." There's sort of the lighter version of looking at this, where we're talking about, OK, what impact does this have on Swifties who are taking part in the election, but also kind of the darker undertones again when we talk about how rhetoric shows up in the real world.

MCKINNON: I think there's only a way to interpret that, and that's that - that that's - that's more than a bat signal. That's telling his supporters - I mean that's turning up the volume on his supporters and saying, I hate her. Basically, go after her somehow. Whatever that means to - the problem is you have people out there that interpret these things, you know, in ways that we can't manage and we know that our resources are incapable of providing the sort of safety that we need for our candidates out there. But I - you know, to say that you hate Taylor Swift, that - that is - you know, we know what kind of - how dedicated and we know how unhinged some supporters of both candidates are. So, when you send and those kind of signals, if you are a truly dedicated supporter who's on unhinged and your guy hates that person, well, you're going to go after him. And whatever that means. And it's usually not good.

HUNT: Yes, really, really difficult reality. I mean our Stephen Collinson put it this way, and this is - he's talking about the assassination attempt. "Incidents like this, that they happen at all, it speaks to the undercurrent of violence that is a constant shadow over American politics. One that's exacerbated by the easy ability of firearms. Both nominees now address outdoor crowds from bulletproof screens and there will now be fresh fears that a tempestuous period running up to Election Day could take the country further down a dark road."

I mean, I think this is the thing that now, considering this has happened twice, hangs over the remainder of the campaign.

MCKINNON: Well, not only the remainder of the campaign, Kasie, but it really scares us to think about what - what happens on Election Day, or shortly thereafter, if it's a really close election? That's really scary.

HUNT: Yes. All right, Mark McKinnon for us this morning. Mark, always grateful to

have you part of the program. Thanks so much for being here. See you soon.

MCKINNON: Kick it.

HUNT: All right.

Alex Thompson, I mean, on that. I mean, we've got two minutes left here, about - I mean the reality is this election is going to be very close. And there have been these markers of dark - of darkness as we have hurtled towards November 5th.

THOMPSON: Yes. I mean the thing is that it's - it is possible that the last January 6th is actually just the first of many January 6s.

HUNT: That's a cheerful assessment.

THOMPSON: But it is true. If there's a very close election. I mean you've seen this escalating - you know, we talk, sometimes jokingly, about the Brooks Brothers riot of 2000. I mean they - the - every single close election you've seen an escalation of aggression, rhetoric, and occasional and now violence every single time.

HUNT: Well, Meghan Hays, I will say people are - the Capitol is much more prepared, at least from talking to my sources, for what may or may not happen as - after the election. But your thoughts here?

HAYS: Yes, I mean, I think that they have to be, right? Like, we cannot have another January 6th like regardless. We cannot have that take place on the Capitol. So, I think that they have to be more prepared or - or that - I mean that will be really detrimental to our country.

[07:00:03]

HUNT: Shermichael.

SINGLETON: I mean, look, people feel disconnected, disillusioned and purposeless. And we need political leaders to figure out a way to address these issues at the actual root problem that's causing people to fall into the rhetoric that's causing them to be violent.

HUNT: Yes. Well, and a lot of that is, of course, how easily accessible so much of this is. You know, your phone is in your pocket. The way you can ultimately take action based on all of this, it's so much easier than it ever used to be.

SINGLETON: Yes.

HUNT: Thank you all for being with us this morning. I appreciate it.

Thanks to all of you for joining us as well. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.