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Jim Schultz is Interviewed about Gaetz's Withdrawal; Trump's Potential Plan for the FBI; Michael Smerconish Talks About Scandal Around Trump Picks; RFK Jr. Takes on Froot Loops. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 22, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:32:39]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: This new story is that the Ethics Committee was told of a second sexual encounter with a woman who was just 17 years old.

And instead of getting a response or a comment, just about a minute before we were about to go live on CNN, he notified the world that he is withdrawing from consideration as attorney general.

SETH MEYERS, HOST "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": Oh my God, they asked him for a comment and his comment was, I quit. This is - this is like, if the Mystery Gang showed up to a haunted amusement park and the first ghost they saw immediately ripped off his mask and said, all right, fine, you got me. It's Matt Gaetz. Hey. And while I'm here, what's your deal, Daphne?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Matt Gaetz bowing out of his confirmation fight for attorney general amid brand new CNN reporting about a second sexual encounter between Gaetz and a minor.

Donald Trump calling Gaetz yesterday morning to tell him he didn't have the votes for Senate confirmation. Later, Trump tapped ally and former Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi as his new choice to lead the DOJ.

On Capitol Hill, the reaction to the Gaetz news, mixed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I didn't see that coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I - I - he seemed very optimistic yesterday.

REP. MICHAEL GUEST (R-MS): I think that this should end the discussion of whether or not the Ethics Committee should continue to move forward in this matter.

REP. GLENN IVEY (D-MD): There's certainly precedent for releasing Ethics Committee reports after someone has retired from the Congress all right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining us now, CNN legal commentator, former Trump White House lawyer, Jim Schultz.

Jim, good morning. Very grateful to have you here.

Were you surprised that this is how this ended?

JAMES SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: No, I wasn't surprised at all. As a matter of fact, I think the day - the day that he was nominated, I was on an afternoon show here and said I didn't think he would last.

And look, the - President Trump knows how to count votes. He was - it was clear he wasn't going to get the votes as more information came out. No surprise that - that President Trump kind of threw him over the side, if you will, because it was - he wasn't going to make it.

HUNT: Yes, Jim, I mean, can you help us understand, considering, you know, you've spent time in the room with the president-elect, how the days of headlines about Gaetz would impact him, whether he was frustrated about this or didn't care.

SCHULTZ: Look, I'm sure that - look, he made the nomination.

[06:35:03]

He went out and supported that nomination. And when he found that it - that the - that the votes were wanting, he asked him to step aside or, you know, or, you know, said that he didn't have the votes and - and Representative Gaetz made that decision himself. But regardless, the writing was on the wall. And, you know, one thing President Trump doesn't like to do is lose. And if he's going to lose those votes in front of the Senate, he's - he's not going to - he's not going to stand behind that candidate.

HUNT: Let's talk for a second about Pam Bondi, the choice that he made to be attorney general after Gaetz said that he was going to withdraw his name. Her profile, of course, quite different than Matt Gaetz's in terms of the experience that she brings to the job, as well as, you know, while she has clearly shown she is loyal to him, doesn't seem to have the kind of baggage that Matt Gaetz brought to the table.

SCHULTZ: No, she's a real prosecutor. She spent time prosecuting cases as a young lawyer, made that up through her career, was the first woman elected attorney general in Florida, served - served Florida honorably. And, you know, and is a Trump loyalist, no doubt about it. And, you know, no surprise that that's a pick that he made. And he's not - she's not going to face nearly - she's going to get the votes.

HUNT: So, Jim, what do you think this means for the Department of Justice overall because, I mean, as we've been discussing it at the table this morning, there is a real appetite among Republicans in Washington and in the Senate to change - make changes at the department.

SCHULTZ: Look, elections have consequences. And, you know, President Trump has said he wants to make changes at the department. I'm sure that, especially at the higher level, there will be sweeping changes in the Department of Justice, no question about that, including FBI director, you know, all the - all the deputies, et cetera. And, you know, that's - I know - no surprise that that's something that - I wouldn't be surprised when that happens.

HUNT: All right, Jim Schultz for us this morning.

Jim, very grateful to have you. Thanks very much for coming on.

SCHULTZ: You bet. Thank you.

HUNT: All right, so, let's turn now to this.

Donald Trump has been planning for months to shake up the FBI, possibly firing the current director, Christopher Wray, and installing loyalists into top roles instead. It seems his allies in Congress at this point are on board.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Trump needs to have the opportunity to appoint his successor, and we need to clean house, Sean, from top to bottom in the FBI, at the DOJ, Homeland Security. We need a total and complete housecleaning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: CNN is reporting that Trump has struggled in recent days to find a compromise of selecting a director who can carry out his agenda, but also getting approved by the Senate. One option that's on the table, naming Mike Rogers, he's the former Michigan congressman, ex-FBI special agent, to be director, and then putting Kash Patel, who is a conservative firebrand Trump loyalist, a very controversial one, in as his deputy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL OFFICIAL: I'd shut down the FBI Hoover Building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, our panel is back.

Molly Ball, we - Kash Patel played a very significant role in some intelligence questions and then around January 6th. I - is there a world where - I mean clearly the Trump people think he could not get confirmed. What is his presence in the conversation mean? And I guess big picture too. I mean we're kind of glossing straight over the fact that he seems to want to just fire Christopher Wray. What does that part mean?

MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, yes, I think that's where you have to start because traditionally the Justice Department and the FBI have been independent from the president, and Donald Trump has made it clear that he doesn't believe in that and that he wants to end that arrangement. And he feels that he has a mandate to do that and to clean house.

I mean, I think, to Brad's point earlier, the question is, does he want the DOJ to be neutral, to take away what he believes has been the bias and the weaponization against conservatives, or does he want to weaponize it in the other direction because he has said a lot about that, too. He has said a lot about wanting to go after his own political enemies, wanting to seek vengeance and retribution. So, is he going to - and so if he's going to put in someone like a Kash Patel, that would certainly be an indication that he does want to - that his problem is not with the weaponization of the Justice Department, his problem was with the direction of that weaponization and he just - and he wants to turn it against his enemies, against - instead of it being, as he sees it, turned against his friends.

HUNT: So, Mike Rogers, who is this potential candidate to lead the FBI, has been on another network - was on another network earlier basically auditioning for the role. Let's take a look at a little bit of what he had to say.

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REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI): People have lost faith in the FBI, and they don't even know it. Not showing up for a Senate hearing, they think, is their - I mean that hubris is exactly what people are seeing outside that say, I have lost faith in the FBI.

[06:40:01]

Somebody like me, I can - I can restore that faith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, Brad Todd, he's saying I can restore that faith in the FBI. He's clearly trying to talk to the audience of one in Donald Trump. But at the same time there seems to be some distrust in MAGA world of Mike Rogers. What's your sense of the dynamics?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Mike Rogers, a, he was on the Intelligence Committee was - when he was here in Washington. I think he has a lot of confidence - I think there's a lot of confidence in him in both chambers of the - of the Congress. I think this is the advice and consent process playing out. You know, I mean, when Obama came in, he brought Eric Holder in as his attorney general, who said he was his wingman. John F. Kennedy picked his brother. So it is, of course, normal for a president to want an attorney general who is close to him. I mean, Jeff Sessions, who was Donald Trump's first attorney general,

was the only senator to endorse Donald Trump in the campaign. So, this is very normal.

And I think Mike Rogers has a lot of credibility here in Washington. I think he is confirmable. I think he developed a relationship with Trump on the campaign. You know, he was running for the Senate in Michigan. Trump campaigned in Michigan heavily with Mike Rogers. I think there is a relationship there. So, I could see some arrangement like this working.

HUNT: Does it work with Kash Patel as the number two?

DANA MILBANK, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, "WASHINGTON POST": They would - they would be at war with each other. I mean, you got to, you know, look at this in the larger perspective. The guy who's apparently the big problem here, who's destroyed the FBI, Christopher Wray, was appointed by Donald Trump. So, I think there may be a little worried that Mike Rogers would be a repeat of that.

I mean there's even some talk that they - you know, or at least there had been of Kash Patel getting the number one job over there, which would, frankly, be a disaster because the FBI does actually some other things, like protect us from terrorists.

HUNT: Right, there's that. I mean, and they've concluded Kash Patel can't get through, it seems to be.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Yes. And I think - you know, but I think that also is a reminder. I mean so we've seen - we've seen this Gaetz situation play out. They clearly, I think, see that Patel could not get confirmed.

It's also a reminder that, you know, there's a lot of - you know, it's sort of easy to message and easy to say, we want to clean house. We, you know, we want to stop the FBI from being a political weapon.

But if you put people in place who then, you know, to Molly's point, who then kind of aggressively carry out your agenda, actually the American people don't love that. I mean this was one of the things that people were uncomfortable with in 2020. And one of the reasons they rejected Trump in 2020 because they felt like four years of watching Trump put people in place who were, you know, who were - who were carrying out his political agenda in institutions that have traditionally been separate from the president, that was one of the things people didn't like.

So, there is - you know, it's easy in the moment after an election, when you, you know, you have won fairly handily, you feel you have a mandate, to feel like you can just sort of, you know, do whatever you want and there will be no political consequences. But I'm not so sure that making your kind of the tip of the spear in how your - you're - you know, your government is functioning, hyper political in this way, I actually think there will ultimately be some, some blowback from - from folks.

HUNT: Well, we may be about to find out.

BEDINGFIELD: So, we'll see.

HUNT: All right, ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, the cabinet full of controversies. We'll dig into the confirmation battles ahead for Donald Trump's picks because Michael Smerconish is here to discuss on this Smerconish Friday.

Plus, making America healthy again one cereal at a time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: Why do we have Froot Loops in this country that have 18 or 19 ingredients, and you go to Canada and it's got two or three.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[06:47:44]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: I told my wife the other day, I said, I got so many skeletons in my closet that if they could vote I could be king of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Whether RFK Jr. or any of Donald Trump's other cabinet picks have skeletons in their closet or not, the president-elect does not seem to care. A number of Trump's selections so far finding themselves at the center of various scandals, including allegations of sexual misconduct and enabling child abuse. Trump, himself a convicted felon, seemingly unfazed by the controversies that just a decade ago would likely have sank many of these people in either party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: New details from the sexual assault allegation against Donald Trump's Defense secretary pick, Pete Hegseth.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the article also reports on allegations that Robert Kennedy Jr. sexually assaulted a woman working as a babysitter for his family at the time.

JOEL LEPPARD, LAWYER FOR WOMEN WHO TESTIFIED AGAINST GAETZ ABOUT SEX ALLEGATIONS: My client testified to the House that she witnessed Representative Gaetz having sex with her friend, a minor.

And Representative Gaetz paid my client - both of my clients for sexual favors.

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: A former SpaceX employee says that Elon Musk evaluated women based on their bra size. TAPPER: President-elect Donald Trump's pick for Education secretary,

Linda McMahon, is being sued for allegedly enabling the sexual abuse of children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Oh, it's a lot there and it's Friday, which means it's time for Michael Smerconish, CNN political commentator, and, of course, the host of CNN's Smerconish.

Michael, wonderful to see you.

You stack it all together that way and it's really quite striking, the scale of the challenges facing some of these nominees. And the president-elect is - does not seem to care about any of it.

What does this all say about our country and our culture and our tolerance for this kind of thing?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's nice to be with you, Kasie, although I thought I was booked to speak on the Froot Loops issue. I was here to make a case for Cap'n Crunch. Hand to God, that was my breakfast cereal this morning.

On more serious matters - on more serious matters, the president-elect just received 17 days of cover by Matt Gaetz because that's the number of days, I think, that have elapsed since the election.

[06:50:01]

And for most of that time, we've spoken about Matt Gaetz. And any minute that we've spoken about Matt Gaetz is a minute not having spoken about Pete Hegseth, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Tulsi Gabbard and Kristi Noem. They're the ones with angst today because if I'm Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or Pete Hegseth in particular, I'm saying, oh, my God, now the media is going to have more time to focus on all of us.

Surely Donald Trump knew that this was going to be a very difficult pick to get through. There was some utility in it for Gaetz because arguably he was able to therefore get out of the house. Did you notice that nobody else who's been nominated has resigned from the House? But he did. Why? Because he thought he could thwart the release of that Ethics Committee report.

So, I think there's more going on here than meets the eye. And that it's not total loss for the incoming Trump administration. And the question is, how much bandwidth does the Senate now have to oppose any of the other nominees?

BOLDUAN: Yes. From that perspective, Michael, I mean, who do you think is next in line in terms of people being willing to - because this has been the question I've had all the way along, right, it's going to cost political capital for Senate Republicans to oppose Trump's picks in this kind of world where the MAGA base demands so much. And many of these senators are up for re-election, right? They may face primaries. But then they'll also face general elections. Who do you think is next up in terms of people who, you know, it may

be controversial or difficult for someone like Susan Collins to vote for Pete Hegseth, considering the allegations, but where do you think the line is drawn next?

SMERCONISH: If I had to rank them in terms of potential peril, Hegseth would be at the top of the list, followed by Tulsi Gabbard. Bobby Kennedy would come in third. And Kristi Noem would come in fourth. And I'm not saying that any of them are going to suffer a defeat a la Matt Gaetz. But in terms of the risk level, that's how I see it. And Hegseth is at the top.

And what remains to be seen is whether we ever meet the accuser in that case. People - I talked about this extensively on radio yesterday and went through all the coverage in terms of what was in that Monterrey document release, the 22 pages. I can tell you that callers saw in it what they wanted to see in it. It's a he said/she said, as we know it now. And some were just inclined to take his side and some were inclined to take her side.

What would break that maybe is if she came forth and we got a look at her and judged her credibility.

HUNT: Yes. I mean always a difficult - a difficult reality for anyone in that kind of situation.

SMERCONISH: Right.

HUNT: Michael, briefly, you mentioned Tulsi Gabbard. The issue with her, in your view? And - and, actually, the person I'm watching on that one is Mitch McConnell.

SMERCONISH: Well, I mean, some of the statements that she's made in the past, I - I don't just accept, you know, the talking point that - that she's a Russian agent and is here to do Putin's bidding and so forth. But, nevertheless, there are a number of things that she has said in the past that I think are - are ripe fodder for a confirmation hearing. And how far they want to go in the questioning with she and the others, at the risk of antagonizing, you know, the incoming president, I mean, that's - that's the issue.

I should say one other thing, which is that he was elective - he was elected to be a disruptive force. That was the appeal for many who voted for Donald Trump. And so, by definition, you're not going to get conventional characters. You're not going to get a Rex Tillerson in this go round given the platform on which Donald Trump was elected.

HUNT: Yes, for sure.

All right, Michael Smerconish for us.

Sir, always grateful to see you. Have a wonderful weekend.

And, of course, everyone watching, remember, tune in to "SMERCONISH" tomorrow morning, 900 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

All right, it's 53 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

Actor Jussie Smollett's conviction for staging a hate crime hoax has been overturned. The Illinois Supreme Court stating the case should never have been prosecuted. In 2019, the "Empire" star made a deal with the state's attorney, who then dropped the charges. But then a special prosecutor was brought in. He was charged again and then convicted. That conviction now thrown out. Smollett maintains his innocence.

The death toll rising after a suspected mass methanol poisoning in Laos. An Australian teenager now the sixth foreign tourist to die. One American has also died. Authorities believe that they were killed by drinking tainted alcohol.

Democratic incumbent Senator Bob Casey has conceded the Pennsylvania Senate race to Republican challenger Dave McCormick. Casey lost his seat by less than a quarter of a point in an incredibly tight race that did go to a recount. Republicans will now have a 53-47 seat majority in the next Congress.

Two of the world's richest men publicly squabbling on social media over Donald Trump. Elon Musk tweeted, "just learned tonight at Mar-a- Lago that Jeff Bezos was telling everyone that Trump would lose for sure so they should sell all their Tesla and SpaceX stock."

[06:55:07]

Bezos responded, "nope. One hundred percent not true."

Musk's own company, X, put a content warning on it. Community note clarifying the statement.

Molly Ball, this Jeff Bezos versus Elon Musk, I - like, especially on the space question, it's like, these two billionaires like fighting with each other in public. Like, what?

BALL: Well, they all just want to go to space, right? They are all building their - they're building their big toys, their rockets, and, you know, going after each other on social media. I think Elon and his persona has really showed these other billionaires how out there they can be. They can be out there in public. They can be, you know, taking shots at each other and saying what they feel like on social media. They don't have to be sort of up there in their little towers writing their talk (INAUDIBLE).

HUNT: I guess not, because we're all going to benefit from this new reality.

All right, let's turn now to this, a nostalgic cereal. It's now at the center of a political fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Loo, loo, loo, loo, loo.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: That's right, Froot Loops. "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting that the company that makes the colorful cereal has, quote, "been under fire for months over its use of artificial food dyes. Now one of the company's highest profile critics, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., has been tapped to become the country's top health official and has vowed to target artificial dyes in cereal that he says contribute to widespread health problems, particularly in children."

Kennedy calling out the manufacturer earlier this month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: Their entire department is like the nutrition departments at FDA that are - that have to go. That are - are not doing their job. They're not protecting our kids. Why do we have Froot Loops in this country that have 18 or 19 ingredients, and you go to Canada and it's got two or three.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, our panel is back.

Anyone a Froot Loops fan? Did you grow up on Froot Loops?

TODD: Of course.

HUNT: Yes.

TODD: All the Kellogg's cereal. You know, Sugar Smacks and the whole bit.

HUNT: I mean, look, Kennedy's not wrong about this. This "Journal" story, I don't know if we have it produced, but like when you look at the difference between American Froot Loops and, right there, right here, the blue bowl, and then the Canadian ones are right here, I mean, like, it's obvious, right, that we put a lot more - I mean RFK Jr. probably calls it "crap" in the cereal. The company says, well, no, that's not the case. But, I mean, Dana, like, maybe there's a point here.

MILBANK: I mean, it'd be obvious, we'd all be healthier if we had Cocoa Krispies instead of Froot Loops. But, you know, look, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., let's remember, he - he is, or at least was, a creature of the left. There's a lot of stuff on his agenda, whether it's taking on big pharma or healthier food that a lot of people can support.

Now, you know, there's the other question of, you know, are we going to have some deadly bird flu outbreak and he's not going to let us have a vaccine. Well, that's a different matter. But it's a very complex character. So, I think there's a lot of things - a lot of people in MAGA world are not going to be at all pleased with his agenda.

TODD: It's a complicated nomination. I don't know that we've ever had a nominee for a cabinet that's this polarizing and not in a hot way, right? I mean, like, either Robert Kennedy is a Froot Loop or he's going to fix Froot Loops, you know? I mean, like, that's -

MILBANK: Or both.

TODD: That's -

HUNT: Have you been waiting the whole show to deliver that line? I love it.

BEDINGFIELD: He's been waiting the whole show. Yes, exactly.

TODD: But that's - that's the question that we'll answer in the hearings, you know. So, I don't know.

BEDINGFIELD: There's - I mean, look, you know, as a mother of small children, I mean, yes, this is an appealing argument.

HUNT: Yes.

BEDINGFIELD: I mean, yes, there are too many chemicals in our food. There's too much sugar in our food. So, this is a space where he's going to be able to rally the left. He's going to be able to rally moderates. This is - he can build a, you know, a coalition of moms.

I mean it is a complicated nomination because that is an incredibly - I think will be a very effective line of argument for him. But you - counterbalancing that with somebody who has said that decades and decades of medical science behind vaccines is not accurate, is not right, is not true, that weighs heavy on moms too. So, how you -

HUNT: Well, right. It's like, are you going to fix the food, but then is my kid going to go to school and are their schoolmates going to have the measles vaccine?

BEDINGFIELD: Right, right, right. And I think there are probably plenty of qualified nominees who could run HHS, who would take on the fight about, you know, our overproduced food without also bringing along this baggage of suggesting that vaccines that work don't work.

TODD: It's possible he ends up in some role that lets him fix Froot Loops but not lets him be in charge of measles vaccines.

BEDINGFIELD: Also true. Also true.

BALL: Well, and the other question too is, you know, Republicans have not traditionally been the party that wants more government regulation on ingredients in food.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

BALL: And so, when he comes before the Senate and he is saying, you can't have basically food coloring, even if there's no evidence that it's harmful in any way, and we're going to have - put all these, you know, additional regulations on what exactly, you know, ingredients companies can use, what the government considers healthy, what the thresholds are for that, I don't know how many conservatives are going to be on board with a really aggressive regulatory agenda when it comes to the food industry or any other.

[07:00:08]

HUNT: Yes, I mean, we could dig up the tape of when Michelle Obama was talking about children's lunches and the -

MILBANK: Yes.

HUNT: What - the things that were said on places like Fox News about it.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

HUNT: Really contradict what RFK Jr. is saying now.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes. And especially in an environment where everybody's worried about cost of groceries and companies are going to argue, well, it's only going to make it more expensive, and it's going to be hard to hold that coalition together for sure.

HUNT: For sure.

All right, guys, thank you for spending your Friday with us. I appreciate it.

Thanks to all of you for joining us as well. Have a wonderful weekend. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.