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Hegseth Vows To Fight On With Nomination In Peril; Bezos On Trump's Next Term: "I'm Optimistic"; Gunman On The Loose After Killing CEO In "Targeted Attack." Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired December 05, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: "Hegseth had a reputation as a heavy drinker, according to six former Fox News employees who worked directly with Hegseth and saw him drinking on the job or visible drunk at work events." They "spoke on the condition of anonymity out of fear of retaliation."

Hegseth's lawyer denied the reports when asked for comment by The Washington Post.

Now Hegseth needs to win over Republican senators to get confirmed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): It was a frank and thorough conversation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had an engaging and constructive conversation.

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): It is a tough road for him, but it is 100 percent doable.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I'm not -- it's not 100 percent clear to me who he wants as secretary of defense right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Joining me now to talk about all of this, Stef Kight, politics reporter at Axios, and Gerren Gaynor, White House correspondent for TheGrio. Welcome to both of you. Thank you so much --

GERREN KEITH GAYNOR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND MANAGING EDITOR OF POLITICS, THEGRIO: Good morning.

HUNT: -- for being here.

So, Stef, obviously, he is pushing ahead -- Pete Hegseth -- with what he's doing here. He spoke to Megyn Kelly in that interview yesterday.

We also heard from his mom yesterday on Fox because, of course, she had written an email to him back in the middle of his second divorce decrying his treatment of women. I want to show you a little piece of that interview and we'll talk about it. Let's watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENELOPE HEGSETH, MOTHER OF PETE HEGSETH: I wrote that out of love and about two hours later I retracted it with an apology email, but nobody's seen that. He's a changed man and I just hope people will get to know who Pete is today, especially our dear female senators -- that you listen to him. Listen with your heart to the truth of Pete.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So right there she's appealing directly saying to female senators I hope you will see the truth of Pete Hegseth.

Where does this nomination stand right now? I mean, you saw that Joni Ernst was not exactly warm and fuzzy shall we say in her description of the meeting that they had.

STEF KIGHT, POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Right, and Joni Ernst is really the person to watch right now. I heard repeatedly from sources yesterday that was really the big meeting for Hegseth. That he needed to go well based on that statement. And from what we've heard it doesn't sound like it went super great. It's a very curt response, very curt description of their meeting.

Joni Ernst, of course, is a combat veteran and she has experienced sexual violence, so some of the allegations against Pete Hegseth probably hit home for her, specifically because of her history there. I mean, a lot of people are looking at her for that experience and also because she's sitting on Armed Services, the committee that will vote for Pete Hegseth to move him forward.

And look, he has survived another day. He's fighting another day, and this is a game of the next 24 hours, the next 24 hours. And I have heard from sources who say that if he can just make it to the weekend when senators leave town again, maybe he pushes through. Maybe he gets to the actual confirmation process. But there is no question that he -- his changes are in jeopardy. You had one senator say that they don't think his nomination is going anywhere.

HUNT: Yeah.

Gerren, let's watch a little bit more of what Hegseth had to say in that interview he did yesterday with Megyn Kelly as he talked about this confirmation process. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP PICK FOR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: What you're seeing right now with me is the art of the smear. Take whatever tiny kernels of truth -- and there are tiny, tiny ones in there -- and blow them up into a masquerade of a narrative.

I owe answers to the members of the United States Senate who are going to vote for a confirmation here. And my meetings with them have been fantastic. No one has looked me in the eye and say I have concerns, and I can't vote for you. In fact, most have said let's take a picture and I'm behind you all the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So most may have said that, but it really only takes four for this nomination to be derailed. He does acknowledge there that there are kernels of truth in some of this.

And, of course, the question about his drinking -- and one of the things we heard from senators coming out of these meetings was that he is out there assuring him that he is not going to drink at all if he is confirmed as secretary of defense -- is that obviously you get calls any time of day or night, weekend -- you know, it doesn't -- it does matter. And it's not just you and your family who are involved; it is the entire United States military, the nuclear arsenal, et cetera, et cetera.

What are your -- what's your sense of his confirmation chances?

GAYNOR: You know, there are -- there is reporting that there are some Senate Republicans like Susan Collins and even Mitch McConnell who are a little skeptical of this nomination.

And so I think it's an uphill battle for Pete Hegseth, especially when you think about the fact that President-elect Trump and his transition team is already shopping around other nominees, including his own former nemesis Ron DeSantis, which would be very interesting if that was to the case. But the fact that there is a list shows that there is even doubt within the Trump camp.

I think -- even broader I think that it's interesting that the volume and the speed at which the Trump transition team has been announcing these nominations. It's interesting because there's a -- there's a universal understanding that when you move quickly you make mistakes. And I think that was maybe a tactic by the president-elect to sort of rush through some nominees, but it's showing that there are some holes in this nomination process in terms of the vetting process.

[05:35:00]

And Senate Republicans are showing that they are likely -- this is likely a bird's-eye view into the dynamics of what will play out in -- next year when the Trump team comes into office because Senate Republicans are not scared to push back against the president-elect's nominations. And so his control of the party will be closely watched in his first few weeks and months because we're seeing that despite the fact that they tried to have recess nominations they're taking this advice and consent process very seriously.

And so I don't know that Pete Hegseth will be --

HUNT: Yeah.

GAYNOR: -- will be confirmed but it's certainly a concern on the Hill.

HUNT: Well, what we saw, Stef, from him clearly was an effort aimed at an audience of one, right, in Donald Trump, in terms of doing this interview stacked up against, as Gerren points out, all the reporting about a list in the works of potential replacements. That is one thing I feel like when I've talked to Republican sources, they'll basically say well, Donald Trump will be loyal to him until he's not and there's plenty of other people that he could choose.

KIGHT: Right, and I've spoken to senators who say look at what happened with Matt Gaetz. That signaled Senate Republicans that Trump's picks are not set in stone. He's willing to change his mind if it feels -- if it looks like that his initial pick isn't going to be able to get through the process.

And yesterday was fascinating to watch because when you start having names floated as alternatives you are in a bad place. And Hegseth responded by really doubling him. He wrote the op-ed. His mom went on an interview. He had an interview.

He went to the Hill. He talked to House Republicans who have no say in his nomination, but he went in asking them -- telling them I need your public support. He met with the incoming majority leader, right?

He is -- he's not giving up yet and that's also something that we know that the president-elect appreciates. He wants people who want the job -- who are going to fight. Who are going to be loyal. And so, there are still some people who think there is a way for him to work this out and make this work for him. Again, the stakes -- it does not look super likely right now, but all things are possible.

HUNT: Yeah.

All right, Stef Kight, Gerren Gaynor, thank you both very much. I really appreciate it.

KIGHT: Thank you.

HUNT: All right, let's turn now to this story. Billionaire Jeff Bezos taking on a hopeful tone when he was asked about Donald Trump's next administration. Speaking at The New York Times' DealBook Summit Bezos said he hoped to help Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF BEZOS, FOUNDER, AMAZON: I'm actually very optimistic this time around that we're going to see -- I'm very hopeful about this -- his -- he seems to have a lot of energy around reducing regulation. And my point of view -- if I can help him do that, I'm going to help him.

What I've seen so far is that he is calmer than he was the first time and more confident, more settled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Bezos and Trump have clashed in the past. During Trump's first term, Trump targeted Bezos and his companies, including Amazon and The Washington Post. Joining us now, Axios media reporter and CNN senior media analyst, Sara Fischer. Sara, good morning. It's always wonderful to have you on the show.

We don't get to hear from Bezos on camera very often. What do you think -- what did you hear kind of underneath those comments from him?

SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST, MEDIA REPORTER, AXIOS: Well, he's definitely cautiously optimistic and that's something to note because he was cautiously optimistic, Kasie, in 2016. He was one of the big CEOs that went and visited Trump in the Trump Tower. He was very optimistic at the time that Trump would be good for big business, and that kind of came back to bite him.

You know, Amazon later sued, arguing that they were not getting government contracts under the Trump administration due to bias. You'll recall that Trump really targeted Amazon for its work with the U.S. Postal Service. Of course, he's gone after Amazon founder Jeff Bezos for the ownership of The Washington Post.

And so I think he's trying to hedge his bets so that going into this next administration he doesn't have as much to worry about. But I think that could be wishful thinking.

HUNT: Sara, one of the dynamics at play here is obviously the billionaire versus billionaire dynamic between Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. And, of course, both are very focused on their endeavors in space -- Bezos with this Blue Origin and, of course, Musk's SpaceX.

Bezos was asked about Musk at the DealBook Summit. Let's watch and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEZOS: I take it at face value what has been said, which is that he is not going to use his political power to advantage his own companies or to disadvantage his competitors. I take that at face value. Again, I could be wrong about that, but I think it could be true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Could it be true?

[05:40:00]

FISCHER: I think, again, that's wishful thinking. I mean, if you think about it, Elon Musk really has Donald Trump's ear right now and even though DOGE isn't an official government agency he will be very influential in figuring out where they cut red tape, where they add regulation.

I also think that when it comes to SpaceX, in particular, you've seen Trump-appointed officials -- think about the SEC chair Brendan Carr -- come out and say that they want to do more to favor Elon Musk, and that's from a broadband perspective. And so I think that he does have something to be worried about. But

again, coming out publicly and sort of being optimistic bodes well for him as they head into this next administration.

HUNT: Yeah.

Sara, what do you know about the personal rapport between Bezos and Trump? What is it like?

FISCHER: It's contentious. I mean, you think about it. They had sort of an agreement in 2016 that they were going to be publicly OK with each other. Trump, again, inviting him to Trump Tower. And then Donald Trump completely bait-and-switched and used Bezos as a big target to go against the media because of his ownership with the Post. You know, publicly lambasting him because of the U.S. Postal Office issue.

And so I think that this is a contentious relationship, but both recognize that it needs to be a working relationship. You know, Jeff Bezos is serious when he says that he wants there to be a deregulatory environment, and I think Donald Trump recognizes that part of his agenda is going to be making America the big innovation capital of the world. And so he's going to need Jeff Bezos on his side to do that.

HUNT: All right, Sara Fischer for us this morning. Sara, always grateful for your perspective. Thank you so much for being here.

FISCHER: Good to see you.

HUNT: All right, coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING a candid confession from LeBron James. Why the Lakers' superstar is calling his own team embarrassing. That's next in the Bleacher Report.

Plus, a manhunt in New York City for the assassin who gunned down a CEO. Why his wife says there were concerns ahead of his death.

(COMMERCIAL)

[05:45:55]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA TISCH, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: This does not appear to be a random act of violence. It appears the suspect was lying in wait for several minutes and as the victim was walking to the conference hotel. The full investigative efforts of the New York City Police Department are well underway, and we will not rest until we identify and apprehend the shooter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: New details in the manhunt for a gunman who assassinated the CEO of UnitedHealthcare on the streets of New York City. Fifty-year- old Brian Thompson was in Manhattan for his company's annual investors meeting when the masked suspect shot him in the back on Wednesday morning. Thompson's wife Paulette telling NBC News, "There has been some threats. Basically, I don't know, a lack of coverage? I don't know the details -- I don't know details. I just know that he said there were some people that been threatening him." She suggested that those threats may have involved issues with insurance coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: We're looking at everything. We're looking at his social media. We are interviewing employees. We are interviewing family members. We will be speaking to law enforcement in Minnesota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: These images from a surveillance camera at a nearby Starbucks show the suspect before the shooting buying two power bars and a bottle of water. Moments after the shooting he's captured on surveillance footage escaping on a bicycle into Central Park, but not before reportedly dropping a water bottle and a phone near the scene.

Let's bring in criminologist and behavioral analyst Casey Jordan. Casey, good morning. Thank you so much for being here.

You have seen --

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINALOGIST, BEHAVIORAL ANALYST, ATTORNEY (via Webex by Cisco): Good morning.

HUNT: -- the video of the gunman. I mean, it is very hard to watch. But what do you see in those frames that maybe those of us with less practiced eyes might miss?

JORDAN: Well, the biggest thing that people have been focusing on is the fact the gun has a silencer and seems to be malfunctioning. In other words, jamming. He gets three shots off but in between he has to hit the side of the gun to make it reload. It was not automatically reloading.

And law enforcement analysts who know ballistics and understand the training that's involved in the handling of a firearm like this do believe that this is a person who had plenty of practice. Now, you can't jump to the conclusion this a person who is in the military or law enforcement, but it's not just the sort of thing where he woke up that morning and decided to do it. He clearly has spent time at a practice range using that weapon and knew almost as an auto response how to clear the chamber when it was jamming.

So they're going to be looking for somebody who is a little bit more sophisticated with weapons. He didn't just buy this a day or two ago and this was his first time using it.

HUNT: So, Casey, what does it say to you that he was able to escape and that he is still on the loose nearly 24 hours later? I mean, this seems astonishing. JORDAN: It is -- but again, it's not random. It is a brazen attack that was incredibly targeted and well planned. You know, the fact that there was a bike waiting for him. The idea that there was a way to escape into Central Park, which in that time of the morning is really jammed with early-morning traffic.

And the simple idea that he was waiting and waiting and waiting. I know a parking attendant across the street said he was there for hours. Had noticed him standing kind of against the wall in the shadows.

Now, he's wearing that dark clothing, that gray backpack. He went to Starbucks, so even though it was well planned he's already making huge mistakes. He's underestimating the amount of video that there is on the streets of New York and in these places.

He bought a bottle of water, which if he drank from it, it probably has his DNA on it.

Dropping a phone? That isn't confirmed yet but if that is true -- if they have recovered the phone of the assailant that is going to be one of the very best ways that they are going to track down who did this.

And going to Starbucks. Did he swipe a credit card, or did he pay cash?

They are going to attack this investigation really from a number of different angles, and video is probably what's going to solve it. But that phone and that water bottle may turn out to be key along, Kasie, with those threats that they are going to be very carefully going through to see if this was somebody who may have held a grudge against Brian Thompson or was it really about UnitedHealthcare?

[05:50:15]

HUNT: Right.

Casey, in terms of the cell phone is there any -- I mean, you sometimes see activists, for example, in the political space make sure that they don't go anywhere with their cell phones so that they're not tracked.

Do you see this as likely part of it? Because I totally take your point. It seems very sloppy to go into a Starbucks and do all these things that you have outlined. But would there be, like, a reason to drop your phone at the scene that could protect you, or not really?

JORDAN: Great question. So you raise the question of is the phone a contraindicator? Is it a plant? Is it a red herring? Is it something that he brought along? Maybe a burner phone. Maybe a phone he stole from somebody else or found, or that somebody had lost that he dropped intentionally. Maybe the water bottle is a piece of garbage he picked up and dropped intentionally.

These things are sometimes done by highly sophisticated assailants to throw investigators off -- and, in fact, it can work. It can send you in a completely wrong direction and waste a lot of time in trying to track down the actual culprit.

So they are going to be considering the possibility that these are planted pieces of evidence because with the level of sophistication we've seen in the planning and having the bike ready for escape, it really is not consistent. It's either sloppy or incredibly intentional.

HUNT: It's fascinating.

All right, Casey Jordan for us this morning. Casey, thanks very much for being with us. I really appreciate it.

JORDAN: Great to be here.

HUNT: All right, time now for something lighter, sports. LeBron James and the Lakers lose to the Heat in one of the worst blowouts -- oof -- in franchise history.

Andy Scholes has this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah, good morning, Kasie.

So, since winning six in a row, the Lakers -- they have now lost six of their last eight. And they lost last night in Miami by 41 points. The Lakers' defense was just nonexistent in this game.

The Heat made a franchise record 24 three-pointers. Tyler Herro -- he made nine of them on his way to 31 points.

Now, LeBron did break out of his shooting slump finally making a three after missing 20 in a row. He scored 29.

But the Heat just blowing out the Lakers in this one -- 134-93 was the final, the eighth-worst loss in franchise history.

And JJ Redick -- well, he was not happy with his team's effort.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JJ REDICK, HEAD COACH, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: It's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed. We're all embarrassed. There has to be some ownership on the court, and I'll take all the ownership in the world. This is my team, and I lead it, and I'm embarrassed.

LEBRON JAMES, FORWARD, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: We've got to figure it out because it's definitely embarrassing, for sure.

REPORTER: JJ questioned the togetherness.

JAMES: I agree with everything JJ said. He already talk to you all?

REPORTER: Yes, he did.

JAMES: Whatever he said I agree 100 percent, 1,000 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCHOLES: All right. Meanwhile, in college basketball, the top two teams in the country both going down. Unranked Creighton taking down number one Kansas. They never trailed in this one and led by as many as 17. And the fans all having a good time. They rushed the court in Omaha as Creighton won this one 76-63.

The Blue Jays -- they had never beaten a top-ranked team. A year ago they were 0-6, but they've now won two in a row, beating UConn last season and now Kansas last night.

And coach Doug McDermott joking about his home court advantage afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG MCDERMOTT, HEAD COACH, CREIGHTON: Everybody stepped up and did a great job when we needed them. And, you know, what can you say? This is a -- this is a building number one teams go to die evidently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: All right. So number one Kansas going down. Second ranked Auburn also losing thanks to another great performance from Duke freshman Cooper Flagg. The 17-year-old had it all on display. Look at that -- the spinning fadeaway jumper early on. Then in the second half he was showing off the fancy footwork. He gets the bucket plus the foul here.

Lots of NBA teams hoping they end up with the number one pick and the chance to draft this guy. Flagg ended up with a game high 22 as Duke beat Auburn 84-78.

All right, finally, week 14 in the NFL season kicks off tonight. We've got a great Thursday night matchup. The 11-1 Lions hosting the 9-3 Packers. The Lions -- they've won 10 in a row.

But the Packers may have an upper hand in this game after Lions' running back Jahmyr Gibbs inadvertently posted the team's secret play calls on social media. He made this post of his teammate I guess not realizing all the play calls were on the whiteboard behind him.

Now, Packers' head coach Matt LaFleur downplaying the intel they got from it though.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAFLEUR, HEAD COACH, GREEN BAY PACKERS: I don't think it's, like, the end of the world either, you know. I don't think we gain a real competitive advantage off of that, personally. I think it's probably a little bit overrated. I mean, ultimately, you've still got to stop whatever it is they're doing, and they're a good football team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[05:55:00] SCHOLES: Now, Kasie, he says that, but you know the Packers printed that image, blew it up, put it on a wall, studied it. The poor Lions had to probably redo all of their play calls.

The Lions' head coach Dan Campbell said it doesn't matter. We'll give them the whole playbook. If they -- if they beat us, they're better than us. So I liked his attitude about it.

But I'm guessing they had a social media talk at some point this week there in Detroit.

HUNT: I was going to say guys, just don't do it. Just stay off the social media. It's not necessary at all. Oh my gosh, that's -- oh, dear.

All right, Andy. Thank you very much.

SCHOLES: All right.

HUNT: I really appreciate it. See you soon.

All right. Coming up next here on CNN THIS MORNING the pardon debate taking a new turn. The White House weighs the possibility of preemptive pardons. Who might be on that list?

Plus, Pete Hegseth still Donald Trump's pick for defense secretary, but could the president-elect change his mind?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": President-elect Trump is considering replacing Pete Hegseth with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis as his nominee for defense secretary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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