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CNN This Morning
Mangione Manhunt Reveals Surveillance Lapses; Trump's Cabinet Picks Meeting with Senators. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired December 11, 2024 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Wednesday, December 11. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING.
[06:00:51]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven't seen any evidence that says that he's the shooter.
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HUNT: A defiant suspect. New details about the man police accuse of gunning down the UnitedHealthcare CEO.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We have a menu of options. What we're deciding right now is the sequence of how we run those plays.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Trump's game plan. How the president-elect and his allies in Congress are planning to make his promises reality.
And assault on Capitol Hill. Police arrest a suspect after Republican Nancy Mace says she was physically accosted by someone she calls pro- trans.
Plus --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The wind's coming straight down Malibu Canyon like a blowtorch.
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HUNT: Out of control. Fire crews struggle to get the upper hand against raging wildfires threatening Southern California.
All right, 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. A live look at New York City on this Wednesday morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you
with us.
We begin with the suspected CEO killer's first public words since his capture and his possible motivation. Twenty-six-year-old Luigi Mangione defiant, fighting extradition back to New York, where he faces five charges, including second-degree murder.
These are new images of Mangione eating a hashbrown at an Altoona, Pennsylvania, McDonald's moments before he was taken into custody. He was in court in Pennsylvania yesterday, where he was denied bail.
On his way in, this angry outburst.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa. Back up.
LUIGI MANGIONE, SUSPECT IN MURDER OF BRIAN THOMPSON: And clearly out of touch. And insult the intelligence of the American people and claimed (ph) experience.
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HUNT: According to Mangione's lawyer, his client maintaining his innocence and pleading not guilty.
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DICKEY: I haven't seen any evidence that says that he's the shooter. So that's, you know -- like I -- like I said earlier, and I wasn't kidding around. A couple of things. If you're going to report something, report it accurately.
And remember -- and this is not just a small thing. The fundamental concept of American justice is a presumption of innocence. And until you're proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And I've seen zero evidence at this point.
Police say there's plenty of evidence they have recovered several handwritten pages of Mangione's notebook containing a "to do" list. In one passage about the Unabomber, he writes using a bomb against his intended victim, quote, "could kill innocents," end quote, and that a shooting would be more targeted.
He also writes it would be better to, quote, "kill the CEO at his own bean-counting conference," end quote.
According to people who know him, Mangione suffered from debilitating back pain in the wake of a recent surgery. The suspect even posting his spine X-rays on his social media.
Police are examining that surgery and its impact on the suspect very closely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: He was posting an X-ray on his social media, showing numerous screws being inserted into his spine. Some of the writings that he had, he was discussing the difficulty of sustaining that injury. So, we're looking into whether or not the insurance industry either denied a claim from him or didn't help him out to the fullest extent.
He knew that this conference was taking place at that time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: "The New York Times" reporting that Mangione's mother filed a missing person's report on her son in San Francisco on November 18th, just weeks before the shooting.
Our next guest has a unique take on how Mangione managed to elude law enforcement for nearly a week. She writes this: quote, "The gunman has succeeded in avoiding identification, in part by understanding how technology is used and what its limits are. This killing raises the possibility that our surveillance network, an intricate web meant to enhance public safety and private security, has become so obvious and intrusive that criminal perpetrators can figure out how to dodge it."
Joining us now, the author of that Atlantic piece, CNN senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.
Juliette, good morning. Always wonderful to see you. Can you explain a little bit more about what you're saying here and how some of these surveillance techniques maybe should be updated?
[06:05:08]
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.
So, I mean, basically in those first couple of days, what you saw was a perpetrator -- we now know it was Mangione -- really seemed to sort of evade a lot of the safety and security features that are put into place in New York City and elsewhere to protect cities, including video and electronic surveillance.
So, basically, I call it the surveillance state, because that's essentially what it is. You have cameras everywhere.
And he evaded it through, you know, basically using cash, fake I.D.'s, but also in the perpetration of the assassination itself. He really was good at sort of keeping his profile from being identified.
His big mistake ultimately, of course, was there were so many cameras that eventually, they were able to capture additional pictures. In particular, one in in the taxicab.
But now that -- now that he's been caught, a lot of those surveillance features helped come up with pictures that would ultimately, at least, be publicized so that the -- the person at the McDonald's was able to identify him.
No family member came forward, as we now know, and it was just the sort of "see something, say something" aspects of this.
I'm not sure what needs to be updated. It does take a long time for the police to put together all those different pieces, to come up with a picture that was then eventually identified.
But it does show, in many ways, because now that we know his background, that he used his smarts, his -- his expertise in engineering and technology, his sort of obsession with gizmos and apps and computers, to help -- help him in this murder. This was not -- he evaded police for a long time.
HUNT: He sure did.
Juliette, can you actually dig in a little bit on that piece where his family didn't come forward?
KAYYEM: Yes.
HUNT: Is that typical in cases like this? I mean, would you have expected.
KAYYEM: No, yes.
HUNT: I mean, obviously, they were worried about him. His mother reportedly fired [SIC] this -- filed this police report about him. I mean, what do you make of that?
KAYYEM: Yes. So, I mean, there was a definite break with -- with his past six months ago. Family and friends, we saw, were trying to reach out to him. You saw on social media that friends were saying, you know, hey, where are you?
That -- that break may have come because of the surgery or some other issue that will probably be explained in his defense. And he is clearly a different person to them.
There's no -- the family never came forward, and I don't want to guess why not. But you know, it is worth raising that those pictures -- Let me put it a different way. If you were the parent of the person in those pictures, you would know that that was your son. There were enough pictures by the end of the week. Any of us who's a parent are able to pick out our kid.
They did not come forward. They were clearly desperate to find him with the -- the mother, you know, looking for him, filing a missing person's report.
There's no legal duty to rat out your son. There just isn't. Unless they actually knew that he had committed the crime or could stop him from a future crime, there's no legal obligation to -- to see something and then say something.
It's a gap in the law. But -- but as anyone could guess, it's probably quite complicated morally, as well, for that family. And we'll learn more about what the family was doing this week. It seems hard to believe that someone in the family did not know that that was him. HUNT: All right, Juliette Kayyem for us, starting us off this morning.
Juliette, thanks very much for your time. I appreciate it.
KAYYEM: Thank you so much.
HUNT: All right. Coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING, Syria in transition. The power vacuum after the fall of Assad's brutal regime. Congressman Jake Auchincloss is here to discuss U.S. Interests in the region.
Plus, Congresswoman Nancy Mace, quote, "physically accosted" on Capitol Hill. A suspect arrested.
And Donald Trump's cabinet picks lobby for support, looking to win over key Republican moderates.
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MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you ready to support him?
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): I had a good exchange, and we'll see what the process bears.
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[06:14:02]
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SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): The one thing I can tell you coming out of that conference is Republicans are united around making sure that President Trump's nominees are put in place and ready to roll up their sleeves and go to work.
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HUNT: One week ago, several of Donald Trump's cabinet nominees appeared to be on shaky ground. But there is a sense of growing momentum for picks like Pete Hegseth, the president-elect's choice to lead the Pentagon.
Just after his announcement, he faced mounting allegations of sexual assault, alcohol abuse, and financial mismanagement at veterans groups.
But a pressure campaign to support Hegseth from outside is breaking through for senators like Joni Ernst, who seems to be softening her initial stance.
Marc Caputo writes this in "The Bulwark," "Shortly after Ernst offered a chilly reception to Pete Hegseth's nomination to head the Department of Defense. She recognized she was in trouble politically, with grassroots Republicans calling for her head. Quote, 'How do I make this go away?' a flabbergasted Ernst said to an intermediary, according to a top Donald Trump adviser who received the message. Ernst's buckling underscored the choice facing 53 Republican senators in the weeks ahead. Board the Trump train or get tied to the tracks."
Now, another GOP senator who's seen as a potential obstacle for his confirmation, Lisa Murkowski, met with the former FOX News host. She's not a yes, publicly, but perhaps just as importantly, she's not a no either.
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MURKOWSKI: I had a good exchange with Mr. Hegseth.
RAJU: Are you ready to support him?
MURKOWSKI: I had a good exchange, and we'll see what the process bears.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: While the Senate works through Trump's cabinet nominees, it will be up to House Speaker Mike Johnson to push Trump's agenda through what will be one of the narrowest majorities in congressional history.
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JOHNSON: We have a menu of options. What we're deciding right now is the sequence of how we run those plays, and it's really important. The House and the Senate have different calculations on how that's done, but we all have exactly the same priorities.
President-elect Trump and I will be talking about this in depth this weekend before the Army-Navy game. So, we're going to -- we're going to come up with a play call that we have consensus on and that will work for the American people.
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HUNT: All right. Our panel is here to discuss: Annie Linskey, White House reporter for "The Wall Street Journal"; Jonah Goldberg, CNN political commentator, co-founder of "The Dispatch"; Kendra Barkoff, former press secretary to Joe Biden; and Matt Gorman, former senior adviser to Tim Scott's presidential campaign.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
Jonah Goldberg, when you listen to some of those senators talk about Pete Hegseth, you've watched kind of his public campaign, it does seem to put an incredible amount of pressure on the hearing. But he's also clearly in much better shape than he was.
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I don't think -- I think a lot of these guys weren't in as bad shape as it seemed at the time, and I don't think they're necessarily in as good shape as -- as they seem now, simply for the reason that you bring up, which is that this is always going to, for all these guys, the hearing is the make- or-break thing.
And if they have -- I think if Tulsi Gabbard has a bad hearing, I think she loses. I think if Robert F. Kennedy has a really bad hearing, he could lose. And I think if Pete Hegseth has a bad one.
It depends what's brought up, how they react to things, whether they're circuses or not. So, you know, a lot of these senators are just basically saying, I don't want to tell you what I'm going to do one way or the other right now until I have better political cover to do one thing or the other.
HUNT: Yes. Although it's still -- I mean, Gaetz obviously didn't even get that far.
GOLDBERG: Right.
ANNIE LINSKEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Yes. And I think, look, I mean, you know, this is sort of a race against time for these guys. And one of the key things, particularly with Hegseth, but with all of the people that you mentioned, is does more come out?
You know, I mean, if you had some of these women making their allegations in person showing up, I think that could certainly halt his momentum.
But the other piece of it, too, is I think you saw with Joni Ernst's statement that there was a conversation between Hegseth and the senator -- and Joni Ernst about an issue that she cares a lot about, which is women fighting in the military. This is something that Hegseth had talked about on a podcast and said that he does not support.
But afterwards, after their meeting, he softened on that. So, you do see a little bit of, you know, trading going on in these meetings. It seems like Ernst is getting something for her softening.
HUNT: Right. Well, and I mean Matt Gorman, the other dynamic here is that, when you're out there by yourself, when you're out there alone, then these forces that, you know, Marc Caputo reported on in "The Bulwark" feel much more intense and have an impact.
MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, there's strength in numbers right now.
Ten days ago, right after Thanksgiving, Kash Patel was the one in the proverbial hot seat. Then it was Pete Hegseth. A couple days ago, it was Tulsi Gabbard. It's a shell game where who's getting the most attention at any one moment.
In 2016 and 2017, Betsy DeVos, after Andy Puzder, who was the original labor secretary, dropped out. Betsy DeVos got almost all of that kind of left-wing attention. And Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins ended up voting against her. Now, look, I think to the point in the opening, there are different
kind of tranches to this. I expect Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins to vote against at least one of these nominees. That doesn't mean they don't get confirmed.
But let's also face that Susan Collins is up next year. Or excuse me, two years in Maine. She needs to have a little separation.
So, it's when you start getting into the Joni Ernsts and the other people where this bleeds past that three-vote threshold, that it becomes a problem. We're not there yet on anyone as of right now.
HUNT: Kendra, let me show you what Senator Lindsey Graham had to say, because, again, there are different pieces in terms of the Hegseth nomination specifically.
There was -- my sources have told me that "The New Yorker" piece about his management of veterans' groups, some Republicans found, you know -- got their backs up over it.
But there is this sexual assault allegation that he paid a settlement for. And here's what Lindsey Graham had to say about that. Watch.
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The accusations about mismanaging money and about non-consensual behavior, if they come forward, I will listen to those accusations. But they have to be credible, and they have to be presented in a fashion that Pete can rebut. So, he's much better off this week than he was last week.
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[06:20:10]
HUNT: What do you make of that piece of this? The -- especially the non -- he used the phrase "non-consensual behavior."
KENDRA BARKOFF, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO JOE BIDEN: Yes, I mean if I were a woman in that place, it would be really hard for me to publicly come forward, when you see this pressure campaign that's happening on the senators.
As a woman, especially one who works in this space, why would I, at this point, come forward, knowing what could face me, knowing what has already been out there?
I mean, people have been trashing her left and right all over the Internet. Why would she come forward and do something in this space? It's a really, really tough spot for her to be in.
And it's -- you know, the American people deserve to know what happened. If this man is going to go and lead a 3.4, you know, troops -- run an agency with 3.4 million people, they deserve to know.
But it's going to be a really tough, a tough fight if she does come forward.
HUNT: All right. Coming up after the break here on CNN THIS MORNING, caught on camera. A mysterious explosion.
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(EXPLOSION)
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HUNT: A garbage truck suddenly blows up, sending debris across a Chicago neighborhood. That's one of the five things you've got to see this morning.
Plus, a lasting legacy? How President Biden is trying to emphasize his achievements during his last weeks in office.
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[06:25:45]
HUNT: All right, 25 minutes past the hour. Five things you have to see this morning.
A wildfire threatening Malibu in Southern California. The Franklin fire has scorched more than 3,000 acres after igniting late Monday night. The fire, not contained at all right now.
And --
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
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HUNT: You are looking at a fire -- at a garbage truck exploding just outside Chicago. It was on fire moments before the blast. Two police officers and a firefighter were injured.
A 64-year-old hiker who had been missing for two days, now rescued by the U.S. Coast Guard. A ground rescue team heard shouting from a remote area of the Oregon State Park and found her.
A wild deer causing chaos in Pennsylvania. It smashed into the window of a local nonprofit, leaving behind thousands of dollars in damages. Community members came together to raise money to help with repairs.
And then this --
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LOUIS DEJOY, POSTMASTER GENERAL: You're talking to yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I picked up the mail and delivered it two miles down the road. That's you. I hope you got that on camera.
Miles down the road.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was the postmaster general, Louis DeJoy, covering his ears during a congressional oversight hearing after Georgia Congressman Rich McCormick accused him of overseeing the fall of the postal service.
I don't know. My toddler does things like that sometimes. I don't -- I don't know if that has ever happened to you, Jonah, but --
GOLDBERG: I do things like that all the time.
BARKOFF: Should we cover our ears?
GORMAN: Probably deliver mail faster, too. But you know.
HUNT: Oh, boy. All right.
Ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, speaking out. One of Diddy's accusers speaks exclusively with CNN about his experience at one of the music mogul's famous white parties.
Plus, killer obsession. Why the Internet seems to be rallying behind Luigi Mangione, the suspected CEO killer.
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JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: "Texting all my friends in New York that I hope they get called to jury duty."
"God, I want to do jury duty so bad."
Well, at least it's stirring up a passion for civic duty, I guess. What is going on?
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[06:30:00]
