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Trump: You're Not Going to Lose the Polio Vaccine; Two Dead, Six Injured in Madison, Wisconsin, School Shooting; Authorities Fight Conspiracy Theories Amid Drone Sightings. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired December 17, 2024 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Tuesday, December 17. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING.
[05:58:49]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're not going to lose the -- the polio vaccine. That's not going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Confirmation fight. Donald Trump trying to tamp down concerns about RFK Jr.'s history of vaccine skepticism.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORA GOTTSCKALK, SECOND GRADE STUDENT: And she was screaming, like, "Oh, my leg. Help, help!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Tragedy in Wisconsin. Two dead after a school shooting. What we're learning about the 15-year-old shooter.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should be treating it like a national security issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Drone drama. Today, the White House Intelligence Committee demanding answers about the uptick in unexplained sightings.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I had dinner with sort of almost all of them, and the rest are coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Flocking to Mar-a-Lago. Tech CEOs making the pilgrimage to Palm Beach to buddy up with the president-elect.
All right, 6 a.m. here on the East Coast, a live look at Boca Raton, Florida, not too far from Mar-a-Lago.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on Capitol Hill and in the spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, do you stand by your previous comments about vaccines being linked to autism?
Do you stand by those comments, sir?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Trump's pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, refusing there to clarify if he still believes that vaccines cause autism.
That claim, which Kennedy has made for years, has been thoroughly disproven by multiple studies.
He did, however, later answer a question shouted by CNN's Manu Raju about one key vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Should the polio vaccine be revoked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do say to Americans who are worried you're going to take away their vaccines, Mr. Kennedy?
RAJU: Should the polio vaccine be revoked?
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., TRUMP'S PICK TO HEAD HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: I'm all for the polio vaccine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: "I'm all for the polio vaccine," he says.
If all Democrats vote against him, Kennedy can only afford to lose support from four Republican senators. One to watch closely: Mitch McConnell, who contracted polio as a young child and almost lost the use of his left leg.
Last week, McConnell issued an apparent warning to Kennedy in an open letter saying that anyone seeking Senate confirmation should, quote, "steer clear," end quote, of efforts to undermine public confidence in the polio vaccine, which has been used in America since 1955.
Kennedy has, however, said he doesn't believe the polio vaccine, or any vaccine for that matter, should be mandated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, do you think schoolchildren --
KENNEDY: And no advertising.
HUNT: -- should not be required to be vaccinated in public schools?
KENNEDY: No, I would be against mandates at all.
HUNT: For any vaccines?
KENNEDY: For any vaccine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Hunt: Over the weekend, a transition team spokesperson told the Associated Press that Kennedy, quote, "believes the polio vaccine should be available to the public and thoroughly and properly studied."
It is worth noting the polio vaccine is available to the public, and it has been thoroughly studied. The CDC says the version of the vaccine used in the U.S. is associated with no serious adverse events.
So, what does President-elect Trump think about all this? Here's what he said in his first press conference since the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe there's a connection between vaccines and autism? Do you believe there's a link?
TRUMP: Well, I don't. Look, right now you have some very brilliant people looking at it.
I think everything should be looked at.
You're not going to lose the -- the polio vaccine. That's not going to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think schools should mandate vaccines?
TRUMP: I don't like mandates. I'm not a big mandate person.
I think he's going to be much less radical than you would think. I think he's got a very open mind, or I wouldn't have put him there. He's going to be very much less radical.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: All right. Our panel is here to discuss: Alex Thompson, CNN political analyst, national political reporter for Axios; Elliot Williams, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor; Kate Bedingfield, CNN political commentator and former Biden White House communications director; and Brad Todd, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist.
Welcome to all of you.
And, Brad, let me let me start with you on this vaccine question, because polio in particular is one that we have used for so many years.
And RFK Jr. has tried to, you know, earlier in that interview, I asked him if he still doesn't believe that any vaccine is safe and effective. And he tried to say that, I never said that. I never said that.
He has said that, and he said no vaccine is safe and effective.
How much of a problem is this going to be for him in the confirmation process, when I mean, we can also acknowledge that some of the other things he is for has some cross-party appeal?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he has -- some of the things he's for has cross-party appeal, but some of his problems are cross-party appeal problems. Right?
I mean, his vaccine hesitancy comes from the left. Another chunk of his problems is he's been strongly pro-abortion his entire career. That's going to cause him some challenges.
I think he has a sequence of hurdles to get over. This polio vaccine question is only the first one. The polio vaccine, supported by almost everybody. And so, I think that he and the president-elect have made pretty clear that that's not going anywhere.
But this is not the last hurdle. I think he also has to clear the Senate HELP Committee, the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. Lisa Murkowski is there; Susan Collins is there. Bill Cassidy, who's a physician, is on that committee.
So, this is not a simple process, even for someone who's got as much celebrity appeal as RFK.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And it's interesting. I think you can hear in Trump's comments that he recognizes that. I mean, you have him saying he's not going to be as extreme as you as you think. You know, no, you're not going to lose the polio vaccine.
I mean, you know, Donald Trump is somebody who goes gangbusters on whoever it is he's supporting. And you can hear kind of the recognition in those comments yesterday that he's got a bit of an uphill climb.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think part of the issue is this idea, the term vaccine mandate got in the public's head after COVID and got very heavily politicized and not wading into that fight.
However, the question becomes, do people regard being told to take the polio vaccine to go to school? Or more importantly, MMR, measles, mumps, rubella, which is something that we've all taken, the overwhelming majority of Americans have taken since 1971.
[06:05:03]
When you start calling that a vaccine mandate and politicizing MMR, you know, we've got a big problem here. And I just -- I'm really curious to see how -- how that plays.
ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Adding to what Elliot said without COVID, RFK Jr. is almost certainly not the HHS nominee.
In so many ways, his -- his, you know, ascendancy, especially on sort of the right wing of the -- of the Republican Party now is due to sort of a, you know, disillusionment with the science community or what is science among a significant part of the country, due to some of the steps that were taken during COVID?
And to your point about, you know, the fact that Trump knows there's a problem, that's also the reason why he had RFK Jr. and a bunch of pharma executives come down to Mar-a-Lago and all have a big, you know, rah-rah dinner together.
HUNT: Yes. I mean, a reminder of what Donald Trump said on the trail about RFK Jr., that he was going to, quote unquote, "let him go wild" on a variety of things. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Robert F. Kennedy cares more about human beings and health and the environment than anybody.
I'm going to let him go wild on health. I'm going to let him go wild on the food. I'm going to let him go wild on medicines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, this actually does contrast. I want to show the full comments that Trump made about how RFK Jr. is going to be less radical, including the question. Watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to people who are worried that his views on vaccines will translate into policies that will make their kids less safe?
TRUMP: No, I think he's going to be much less radical than you would think. I think he's got a very open mind, or I wouldn't have put him there. He's going to be very much less radical.
But there are problems. I mean, we don't do as well as a lot of other nations, and those nations use nothing. And we're going to find out what those problems are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, Brad Todd, what's the difference between those two sets of comments?
TODD: Well, I think, first off, RFK's ascension into the Trump orbit was a campaign play. Remember, he was running for president. He was soaking up 3 or 4 percent of the electorate. That was 3 or 4 percent of the electorate Donald Trump needed.
So that's why he made a deal with him, essentially. This is something that happens the world over in politics. You know, Germany's Parliament fell yesterday, because the coalition is falling apart.
So, I view Robert F. Kennedy as a coalition partner, a very minority coalition partner in this Republican government. Maybe he can stay in. Maybe he won't. It's going to take a lot of compromise on his part.
HUNT: Kate, do you think there's any world where Democrat -- any of the Democratic senators vote for RFK's nomination?
BEDINGFIELD: I think there are elements of what RFK has championed that are appealing to some of these Democratic senators.
I think the -- I think, in some ways, it will depend on where the overwhelming narrative about RFK goes. If it -- if it is ultimately a debate about the polio vaccine and MMR, and are we protecting our children, no, I don't think he will get Democratic votes.
I also think you have to look at the totality of the nominees that Trump's putting forward. I think a lot of Democrats are trying to think strategically about the best way to -- we'll say, stymie some of the people they have concerns about. And people are going to pick and choose.
And it's going to be interesting to see who kind of emerges as the consensus opposition, the consensus person who's drawing opposition from these Democrats.
WILLIAMS: The cynical answer is which Democrats are up for reelection in purplish or red states, and could actually need that air cover from the right by supporting RFK?
TODD: But I wonder, will -- will any of the abortion groups decide to come out and endorse him? I mean, because if he fails, the next guy is going to be a lot further right?
BEDINGFIELD; And that's fair. That's fair.
I -- this is why I say, I think that the -- this question about vaccines is going to be determinative on that. Because I don't think a lot of the abortion groups are going to are going to stick their hand up, if he is sort of tripling down on this idea that we shouldn't be vaccinating our children. THOMPSON: There are also some Democrats that sort of see RFK Jr. as
sort of this avatar for the hippie left, the crunchy left they lost in the last eight years. Jared -- Governor Jared Polis of Colorado is basically -- he -- I mean, he doesn't get a vote in the Senate. But he endorsed -- he's a Democrat, and he endorsed RFK getting this job.
HUNT: Yes, it's -- the politics of it are very scrambled. It's interesting you think if he goes down because of the Republicans, it will be because of abortion?
TODD: No, I think -- well, yes, I think that's the No. 1 problem he has. But I think he has other problems. I mean, he also has been anti- gun, you know, and the Democrats have tried to weaponize the health bureaucracy in this country on that issue.
I mean, I think he has a sequence of hurdles. But again, a lot of Republicans know that he was a key part of the coalition. They know that the voters bought him in the election. So that's a tension.
BEDINGFIELD: But he's also a real wild card in the confirmation hearing process, which is the other big -- this is the other big piece of determining how this goes, right?
HUNT: As someone who has asked him questions in a live environment --
BEDINGFIELD: Exactly.
HUNT: -- we really don't know how it's going to go.
BEDINGFIELD: Exactly, exactly.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here on CNN THIS MORNING, a community in mourning after a deadly school shooting in Wisconsin.
Police identifying the suspect as a 15-year-old female. The person who called 911, yes, it was a second grader.
Plus, not immune. The judge in Donald Trump's hush-money case denies his bid to throw out the conviction.
[06:10:03]
And, quote, "Something strange is going on," end quote. Donald Trump joining the chorus of critics asking for answers about mysterious drone activity as the White House attempts to downplay concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESPERSON, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: I can't rule out the fact that we might find some sort of illegal or criminal activity, some nefarious activity. All I can do is tell you that right now, we see none of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:15:02]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank God they were safe, but the trauma. It's a lot. Because I'm sure they lost friends and teachers, which is not OK. And I don't think they will be OK for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That mother has three children who all lived through the school shooting in Madison, Wisconsin. Another community left devastated with the physical and mental scars of a mass shooting.
This is at least the 83rd such shooting at a school in the U.S. this year, the most in a single year since CNN started tracking them in 2008.
The shooting at Abundant Life Christian School Monday killed a student and a teacher and injured six others. Several victims have life- threatening injuries.
The suspect, Natalie Rupnow, is a 15-year-old girl who was also a student at the school, and she took her own life as police responded within minutes to a 911 call from a second grader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF SHON BARNES, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE: Let that soak in for a minute. A second-grade student called 911 at 10:57 a.m. to report a shooting at school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The shooting happening just days before the school's 420 students, who range in age from high school to kindergarten, were getting ready for Christmas break. And of course, the week was supposed to be filled with holiday parties.
And instead, students as young as eight years old are recounting the horror of coming face to face with gun violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADLER JEAN-CHARLES, SIXTH GRADE STUDENT: We heard them, and then some people started crying. And then we just waited until the police came. And then they escorted us out to the church.
I was scared. And why did they do that? Why?
GOTTSCKALK: I just heard sobbing. And there was a teacher, and she was screaming like, "Oh, my leg! Help, help!"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you scared?
GOTTSCKALK: I was -- I was really scared, and I was really sad. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Oh, Kate, it's -- Watching that little girl eating a SpongeBob popsicle, having to deal with this.
BEDINGFIELD: No, I can't. My daughter is very close to her age, and I -- it is hard to watch a child have to process that.
And, you know, I mean, it's just -- it's almost like, what is there left to say? I mean, we're -- you know, we had just acknowledged the anniversary of the Sandy Hook shooting, probably one of the most horrific and scarring school shootings in recent memory.
And to see this continue to happen and, you know, to feel like the sort of collective sense from our elected officials is there's really not all that much we can do. It feels -- that feels unacceptable. It feels unacceptable.
WILLIAMS: The most powerful aspect of that image is the SpongeBob SquarePants ice pop, because it's sort of -- this little girl has lost her innocence, but there's still the images of childhood there.
And more than anything else, I just think we need to have empathy for those kids, who can now never unsee or unhear or unfeel those things, even as their childhood goes on.
HUNT: Yes. Brad Todd, one of the questions here, and one of the things that's been raised in some other recent tragic events like this one, is the culpability of adults who allow minors to access weapons that they shouldn't otherwise have access to. Is that, you know -- is that a way to address some of this?
TODD: Well, I mean, we have a parenting crisis in this country, but, you know, this is a school that didn't have any metal detectors, didn't have a resource officer. There were virtually no security measures in place at the school.
And we know schools are soft targets. We know that we keep learning this lesson over and over.
And I think we ought to be able to get Republicans and Democrats to come together, to be able to harden schools and put the funding for it. I don't think that should be controversial. Maybe we'll be able to do that in this Congress.
BEDINGFIELD: But we've also seen time and again that schools with metal detectors and resource officers still endure these kinds of tragedies.
And I -- you know, I started by saying there's a collective shrug from elected officials. I mean, there actually was a bipartisan gun bill that was passed during the Biden administration that strengthened red flag procedures and -- and background checks.
So, there is -- there can be a path forward on this, if some of these elected officials have the courage to sit down and say, OK, maybe, you know, it's maybe not just the guns, but it is also the guns. And can we have a comprehensive discussion that allows people who are -- are dug in on the partisan right, and dug in on the partisan left about these issues, you know, can we actually find a way to -- to come together and try to make some meaningful progress?
Because we can't leave our children to continue to go to school and have to deal with this day in and day out. I just think in the United States of America in 2024, that is an unacceptable way to live.
TODD: The challenge is getting people to start with everything, things everyone agrees on. Everyone wants to bring in things into this debate that people don't agree on, because they want to. They want it to be a divider.
[06:20:08]
But there are some things, like school security, that we all ought to be able to agree on without any -- that are not controversial.
I think it's hard for Washington, or state governments, for that matter, to start small. This is a place where we have to start with the things everybody agrees.
THOMPSON: I think the problem with, you know, some of the advocates on this issue with that approach is they've done -- like Trump also signed a bipartisan, you know, gun -- whatever you want to call it, a gun bill. And you've had these small approaches. Yet these shootings keep happening.
And you're also seeing, you know, ascendant, sort of a new generation of sort of young Democrats who were kids in some school shootings. You just saw David Hogg announce that he's running for DNC vice chair.
And I think you're going to see a new generation of politicians who, you know, grew up doing these school training drill -- drills while they were growing up.
HUNT: Yes. I mean, when the nursery school called, you know, that these kids as young as one and a half years old at my daughter's nursery school, and they're doing active shooter drills. It's -- you know, it's -- you really wonder what's happened.
I should also note, just as I was asking Brad before, the parents in this particular case, right now, the police say they're not being charged at this time, and they are cooperating with the police.
All right. Still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, concerning, creepy, but the White House says the drone activity that everyone is talking about doesn't look illegal. So, what's up?
Plus, congressman Marc Veasey joins us live as America reels from yet another school shooting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:25:51] HUNT: Who, what, where, when, and why? Questions swirling for weeks about drones in the skies in the Eastern part of the country.
Today, a step toward some answers, maybe? the House Intelligence Committee set to receive a briefing on the mysterious drones.
CNN's Pete Muntean with a look at the response so far.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Drone hysteria is soaring as federal authorities are scrambling to tamp down false alarms, breeding conspiracy theories online, fanning the latest fears reports of unmanned aerial systems over secure Wright-Patterson Air Force base near Dayton, Ohio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All aircraft use extreme caution. Patterson Class Delta is now closed for heavy UAS activity.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Pentagon officials now say the Ohio case is not connected to possible drone sightings in a half dozen states.
Even still, President-elect Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago doubled down on conspiracy theories after Alex Jones and Joe Rogan amplified claims that drones over New Jersey are looking for a stolen dirty bomb.
TRUMP: Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Federal aviation rules allow drones to fly legally, so long as they stay below 400 feet and away from airports, airplanes, and stadiums.
Biden administration officials tell CNN that, of the almost 1 million drones registered in the U.S., 8,000 might be flying at any one given time. And, quote, "We haven't seen evidence of anything non- compliant."
But that has not stopped lawmakers from demanding new technology to help detect hostile drones. Defense officials now confirmed to CNN that the government is sending drone tracking systems to a pair of military installations in New Jersey.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): If the technology exists for a drone to make it up into the sky, there certainly is the technology that can track the craft with precision and determine what the heck is going on.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy says he's been briefed by the FBI, now that it and the Department of Homeland Security say most cases of possible drones are, in fact, manned aircraft.
Science writer Mick West is debunking purported drone videos online. New Jersey airspace is some of the busiest in the country, with videos surfacing from under Newark, Teterboro, and New York flight paths. MICK WEST, WRITER AND UAP ANALYST: If you get the details -- the date,
the time and the location -- you can actually look up what was in the sky at that point and look at what direction they were looking in. And you can see, you know, that it was actually just a plane.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUNT: Our thanks to CNN's Pete Muntean for that reporting.
And Donald Trump -- are you surprised? -- now joining the critics, demanding answers from the White House about the mysterious sightings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people, and they should, because the people are really -- I mean, they happened to be over Bedminster, you want to know the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you receive intelligence briefings?
TRUMP: They're very -- they're very -- they're very close to Bedminster. I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you been -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Have you received --?
TRUMP: I've decided to cancel my trip.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: OK. Our panel is back. I mean, Brad, can't he find out? I mean, he's getting a security briefing.
TODD: You know, I have to tell you, like, there are plenty of times that Donald Trump in a press conference drives people crazy.
But this time in a press conference, he's saying what everybody in America is thinking. Of course, the government should know what's going on. Of course they should say it. And if it was over your house, you probably wouldn't go there. You know, I think this was him at his best.
BEDINGFIELD: Well, I do. OK. To be fair to the White House, I do think they are saying what they know, which is they haven't seen that there's any nexus of national security concern here.
But they also can't identify what every single one of these sometimes hobbyist drones, sometimes, as we heard from -- from the folks in this reporting, sometimes manned aircraft. I mean, the White House can't account for every single thing in the sky.
All that being said, obviously, this is a big story. I do think the White House should be more aggressive in how they are communicating about this. I think they should be -- they should not be afraid to come out and say, you know, there is no cause for concern here.
Here -- but here are all the things we are doing --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEDINGFIELD: -- to ensure that we are on top of it. I think they could show a little more process here that would make people feel like they're --
HUNT: Show your work.
BEDINGFIELD: -- and make people feel like.
TODD: Spoken like a communications director.
BEDINGFIELD: Feel like they are actually on top of this.
HUNT: Well, I mean, and also, I think it does -- if they're going to get a -- do we think they're going to tell the House Intelligence Committee the same thing that they're telling the American public, or not?
