Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Elon Musk's Actions in Government Agencies Raises Concerns, Criticism; Trump Hedges on Where Palestinians Would Live Under New Idea. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 06, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Thursday, February 6. Right now, on CNN THIS MORNING.

[06:00:13]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would characterize it as chaos in just department after department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Swept up in the chaos. The federal workforce reeling as President Trump and Elon Musk attempt to implement seismic changes to the government.

And this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's a unique offer and one that no other country in the world has stepped up and made an offer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The next-day spin. President Trump's team tries to downplay the stunning proposal to take over Gaza and move the Palestinian people out.

And later --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Anybody worth their salt could pretty easily get to actual names.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: A, quote, "counterintelligence disaster." The CIA sent a list of names of its new hires in an unclassified email to the White House.

And vital forecasting on the line. The National Weather Service facing cuts. Why that could put millions of lives in danger when the next natural disaster strikes. All right. It is 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. A live look at Capitol

Hill on this Thursday morning.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.

Day by day, department by department, President Donald Trump is empowering Elon Musk to slash and burn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He campaigned across this country with Elon Musk, vowing that Elon was going to head up the Department of Government Efficiency, and the two of them, with a great team around them, were going to look at the receipts of this federal government and ensure it's accountable to American taxpayers. That's all that is happening here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Tonight is the deadline for federal workers to decide about the president's so-called buyout offer. The Trump administration claiming that about 2 percent of the roughly 2 million federal civilian employees have accepted the buyout offer.

Sources tell CNN that, after the deadline passes, federal workers will see sweeping layoffs. It is that slash-and-burn approach that mirrors what happened at Twitter.

After he bought the social media platform, Musk cut 80 percent of employees.

CNN spoke with one former senior employee at Twitter who explained Musk's approach this way. Quote, "Question every requirement. Assume that every requirement that anybody ever gives you is dumb. Question it. Eliminate it wherever possible. I remember him directly saying, quote, 'If you're not adding things back in afterward, then you weren't cutting hard enough to start with.'"

It's one thing when the consequences are related to a social media platform, and quite another when it's about Americans' health care, Social Security payments, the safety of our planes in the skies. But we'll get to that.

Here's how Steve Bannon, Trump's former chief White House strategist, explains it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP CHIEF WHITE HOUSE STRATEGIST: These guys come with a Silicon Valley attitude of break things and do it fast. Obviously, there's a different regulatory structure within the government. I think it will get worked out.

I think they're going to bring to the surface many fights that have been going on that haven't really got public attention. I would just tell you, like in, like in film, you'll fix it in post.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: "You'll fix it in post."

And of course, though, there are some things, especially in government, that once they're broken, they are just that: they are broken.

Sources telling CNN that the CIA sent the White House an unclassified email containing the first name and last initial of everyone the agency has hired in the last two years. The email could have exposed the employees' identities to foreign hackers. It was sent to comply with one of President Trump's executive's [SIC] orders.

So, his vision and Musk's portfolio, of course, only growing. They have -- Let's just tick through a couple of these things that they've done, right, in the past, I mean, how many -- it's not even three weeks.

They've gained access to the treasury's payment system. They are looking at "upgrading," quote, unquote, the nation's air traffic control system. They want to plug in, I believe, was the quote.

They've dismantled America's largest foreign aid agency, and they're already planning -- helping to plan the end of the Education Department.

They're also, of course, offering those buyouts to all of America's spies at the CIA.

When he was asked whether all of these cuts undermine congressional authority, House Speaker Mike Johnson argued that, well, it's actually all just going according to plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We see this as an active, engaged, committed executive branch authority doing what the executive branch should do.

It looks radical. It's not. I call it stewardship.

This is not a usurpation of authority in any way. It's not a power grab. I think they're doing what we've all expected and hoped and asked that they would do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:05:02]

HUNT: All right. Our panel is here: Jonah Goldberg is co-founder and editor in chief of "The Dispatch"; Alex Thompson, CNN political analyst, national political reporter for Axios; Meghan Hays, Democratic strategist, former director of message planning for the Biden White House; and Matt Gorman, Republican strategist, also adviser formally to Tim Scott's presidential campaign. Welcome to all of you.

Another day in the second Trump administration, Jonah, and it's all coming so quickly.

I do think that there clearly is some appetite among Americans for trimming government waste. This is something we hear from voters all the time.

But the stakes are incredibly high for things like our air traffic control system. You know, the data -- sensitive data of all Americans inside the Treasury Department. They now reportedly have access to Medicare and Medicaid, which includes people's health records.

Is Elon going too far for American voters or is he not?

JONAH GOLDBERG, CO-FOUNDER, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE DISPATCH": Well, if the question is for American voters, I think the evidence isn't in yet. Right?

HUNT: Yes.

GOLDBERG: I mean, we just don't -- there doesn't seem to be the massive groundswell of popular sentiment.

I think you've got to put this in a whole bunch of different buckets, right? I mean, there's the -- first of all, is the actual policy aim desirable? In some cases, I am very much willing to defend the Trump administration on some of these things.

And then there's the procedure. Legal, constitutional or wise. Right? And those -- those are three different, much more difficult questions to answer sometimes.

You don't -- I'm all in favor of doing, like, maintenance on airplanes, but not while they're flying. Right? And --

HUNT: Yes. Like, you know, go -- digging into the code for the air traffic control system while all of these planes are still up in the sky.

GOLDBERG: Yes.

HUNT: Like, like moment to moment. I mean, yes, if you move fast and break things, if you break that, like planes fall out of the sky, right? Like the stakes are different.

GOLDBERG: So -- so, like the triage questions are like the prudential questions about, you know, what they're doing on one -- one part of government, I may be totally fine with, because I think the stakes are low.

Another part of government, I think the stakes are high, and you don't want it.

But also, I mean, the problem with Mike Johnson's position is not only this -- he's technically right. This isn't a power grab, because they're letting them. It's a power giveaway. Right?

And this has been a problem with Congress for a very long time. Both parties have basically said, we want the president to operate as essentially a -- you know, a de facto regent who is going to use -- usurp our power and let -- and we're going to let them do whatever they want. And this is that on steroids.

And --

HUNT: Often because they don't have the political guts --

GOLDBERG: Sure.

HUNT: -- which is the polite word -- to take on the consequences of their own actions.

GOLDBERG: At this point, they don't even have the institutional memory. Lots of people in Congress don't even know how to legislate anymore.

HUNT: Yes. And so, we do have a little bit, I will say, Jonah, of -- of data coming in on -- on Musk. It's early days.

But Alex Thompson, here's how our -- our Harry Enten has kind of assessed Elon Musk's overall favorable rating in the country. Right?

So, back in 2016, his net favorability rating was 29 points positive. Right. So, 29 percent more people thought favorably of him.

It fell in 2024 to something that looks a lot like, you know, any of our politicians, quite frankly, 50-50, negative three. It's continued to drop to negative 11.

There's some economist YouGov polling that looks at Republicans. And that that has gone from November, 47 percent of Republicans said they wanted Musk to have a lot of influence; 29 percent said a little.

That "a lot" number has dropped to 26 percent from 47.

So, clearly, people are reacting to this.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, but he is undeterred. And that's because he has President Trump's backing.

I mean, the fact is.

GOLDBERG: And half a trillion dollars.

THOMPSON: Well, I mean, you know, you -- you spend 200 and you spent 290 --

GOLDBERG: It works. Yes.

THOMPSON: I mean, he basically gave Trump $290 million for this last election. That buys you a lot of leeway with Donald Trump. I'd also say that, you know, DOGE, you know, it's not -- it is not

satisfied. It is expanding. You saw just this week they've -- they've really gone to try to take over this obscure agency, the Government Services Administration, which essentially controls all of the property, all of the computers.

All the technology that every single other agency has to use usually has to go through GSA. And you're seeing that they are trying to take over that agency, as well. So, they're just ramping up.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER ADVISOR TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: A couple of things. It doesn't matter what his approval rating is, right? I think in some ways.

HUNT: Oh, it does to Trump, though. If he starts seeing bad polling numbers on Elon Musk, you don't think that's going to hurt him?

GORMAN: No. I totally disagree. Here's why. I think, in many ways, this is a good cop, bad cop routine. And Elon can be the proverbial undertaker, because he's never going to face, as you said --

HUNT: So, if his polling numbers go down, Trump is fine with that, because Trump's polling numbers will be --

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING FOR BIDEN WHITE HOUSE: And he can just get rid of him.

GORMAN: Trump is -- because Trump is the good cop in this, right? I think we've seen this a little bit when it comes to, like, some of the Gaza and the foreign policy stuff, too.

But again, I think if Democrats and some, you know, in the media want to be going kind of and defending kind of the federal workforce and the bureaucrats and foreign aid, the Trump administration is kind of feeling out where they -- how far they can take this, right?

[06:10:04]

Domestic spending, as we saw with the spending freeze, they kind of hit the electric wire a little bit and backed off.

This sort of thing, they feel empowered to. And look, you know, I think you're seeing a lot of -- and you're going to continue to see, you know, talk from these federal government workers. It's -- look, buyouts and layoffs are something that almost every other American worker, either they themselves or know somebody who has been through. And government jobs are not lifetime contracts.

So, the idea that Democrats are going to run on these buyouts or layoffs as a political issue, go for it.

HUNT: Well, and to that point, Meghan, "Politico," Rachael Bade talked to David Axelrod and to Rahm Emanuel, both of whom, of course, have, you know, their own long histories and kind of ways of looking at the world. But Axelrod told them this: quote, "My heart is with the people out on

the street outside USAID. But my head tells me, man, Trump will be well satisfied to have this fight. When you talk about cuts, the first thing people say is cut foreign aid."

Rahm Emanuel said, quote, "You don't fight every fight. You don't swing at every pitch. And my view is, while I care about the USAID, as a former ambassador, that is not a hill I am going to die on."

So, should this be a hill that -- I mean, what hill should Democrats die on and which ones should they not?

HAYS: Well, it's interesting because they don't seem to be dying on any hill, because they don't seem to be doing much. So, they are leaving this up to people on the outside to file lawsuits.

I mean, do you see Democrats out there? You saw Chuck Schumer out there chanting.

GORMAN: He was chanting.

HAYS: It's like, what are you doing? There are things you can do in Congress.

I mean, Senator Tuberville shut down confirmations for ten months over an abortion amendment. What are Democrats doing?

HUNT: There he is. There's Schumer.

GORMAN: More of that.

HAYS: I mean, like, really. What are we doing here? And so, you're leaving it out to outside groups to file lawsuits. It's -- a lot of this stuff is unconstitutional and should be handled.

I don't disagree with Rahm Emanuel that you shouldn't die on the USAID hill. I think it's just the first one that has, like real implications. Fifty thousand people in the United States have lost jobs from the lack of funding for aid.

So, I do -- there are a lot of things here to continue to pull out.

GORMAN: And I get it, right? Like, it's a cruel fact. I don't want anyone in theory to lose their jobs, but just in January, you had Microsoft, Google, Stripe, you know, layoffs. Like, this isn't something that is, oh, my God, can you believe they're laying people off?

Like, this is something that American -- you know, regular non- government Americans are acquainted with very well.

HAYS: Well, and for aid. It's not that people are losing their jobs that are government workers. They spend $2 billion on food. So, it's people in farms and people in communities in rural -- in 38 states.

I hear what you're saying. GORMAN: Yes.

HAYS: But these aren't like traditional government employees. So, it's different.

HUNT: Jonah. I mean, big picture here. I take the point about layoffs, what we -- what people deal with in the private sector.

I just keep coming back to the stakes of cutting the government without, like, really considering how you are doing it. What do you think, in particular, of the national security implications of how they're going about this?

GOLDBERG: Yes. So, like that -- that characterization of Elon Musk's approach from the old Twitter guy, where he says, if you're not putting stuff back in, then you didn't cut too far in the first place. I'm not sure I want a surgeon who has that philosophy. "Oh, I shouldn't have taken out that liver. I'll put it back in now." Right?

Like and on areas like national security also. I mean, I'm not saying there's evidence for this yet. We just don't know. But like, there are places where the government touches people. USAID really isn't one of them. But like, Social Security and Medicare, V.A. reimbursements.

I mean, there are places where like that game, Operation, to stick with the medical metaphor. Like there could be one spot where Musk touches and the nose lights up, and people are like, what the hell is this -- this guy doing?

And that -- that can have the tendency to cause people to retroactively view this whole period differently. Right? It's like you judge it by here's the screw up. Oh my gosh. You look back and you say, this whole thing was a mess, right?

And it could be something to do with national security, where somebody gets kidnapped. Right? We reveal the sources and methods or something.

Or it could be something with entitlements, or it could be something with public safety.

And presumably they know this. But if their attitude is cut first and fix later, just knowing it and actually doing something about it are two different things.

HUNT: Yes. Again, the stakes of making a mistake when you are -- And I think it's also worth noting, as much money as Elon has, as successful as his enterprises have been, they -- they have not affected nearly so many people as the federal government --

GOLDBERG: Sure.

HUNT: -- of the United States can affect with, like, the touch of a button.

All right. Coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING, concern about growing risk to national security. We're going to talk more about how an unclassified email may have exposed some of Americans spies.

Plus, the new agency on Elon Musk's chopping block, the National Weather Service. What these cuts could mean for those life-saving -- saving weather warnings that you rely on.

And the White House trying to clarify the president's proposal to, quote, take over Gaza. Some of the Arab American voters who helped him get elected say they feel betrayed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, it's very concerning. And it's infuriating. Palestine is the red line for this community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:19:09]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JIMMY FALLON": Trump wants to take over Greenland, Canada, and now the Gaza Strip. He's like everyone at 2 a.m., drunk ordering off Amazon. I'm going to add -- I'm going to add Gaza Strip to cart. I want Gaza Strip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: As President Donald Trump seems to add another territory to his wish list, allies in his administration are now scrambling to clarify what he really meant when he said that the U.S. would take over Gaza, possibly with the assistance of U.S. troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As far as Gaza is concerned, we'll do what is necessary. If it's necessary, we'll do that. We're going to take over that piece.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: "We'll do what is necessary," he said when asked about potentially using the U.S. military in Gaza.

Now, members of the Trump administration are trying to clarify why he wouldn't rule out that possibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not rule out troops?

LEAVITT: Because I think the president is very good, when he's making deals and negotiating, not to rule out anything, because he wants to preserve that leverage in negotiations. And so, I think that's what he's doing here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Also unclear in the idea from the president is where would the nearly 2 million displaced Palestinians live? Secretary of State Marco Rubio suggests that any displacement would be temporary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: So what he's very generally -- very generously has offered is the ability of the United States to go in and help with debris removal, help with munitions removal, help with reconstruction, the rebuilding of homes and businesses and things of this nature, so that then people can move back in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: But the president seemed to throw out a range of possibilities for the future of current Gaza residents when he talked about his idea on Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If we can build something for them in one of the countries -- and it could be Jordan and it could be Egypt. It could be other countries.

I hope that we could do something where they wouldn't want to go back. Who would want to go back?

The only reason the Palestinians want to go back to Gaza is they have no alternative.

I think the entire world, representatives from all over the world will be there, and they'll -- and they'll live there. Palestinians also. Palestinians will live there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Jonah Goldberg, the degree to which that this -- we've learned in the last 24 hours about how this wasn't thought through.

Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman over at "The Times," they wrote -- wrote it this way, right? "The presentation from the president left more questions than answers. Like, how would this work? How many U.S. troops would be required to clear out Hamas and the mountains of rubble and defuse all the unexploded ordnance? What would it cost to rebuild a demolition site the size of Las Vegas? How would seizing Palestinian territory be justified under international law? What would happen to the two million refugees? In the hours after the announcement, senior administration officials were notably short on substantive answers. The reason for their evasiveness soon became clear: No actual details existed."

GOLDBERG: Details. Look, I want to be real clear. It's an insane idea. OK? It's -- when -- when Joe Biden, I thought, somewhat foolishly, tried to put in that pier to provide aid to Hamas, Hamas fired on it, right.

The idea that you're going to be able to do something like this with -- with boots on the ground and not have Americans lose their lives, which is pretty explicitly what J.D. Vance and these guys were saying America is going to be done with, right?

I mean, we can go down a long list. It's a pinata. You can hit it from any angle and get some reward.

The one thing I will say in defense of all of this is, as a -- just a giant middle finger to the -- the sort of cliched, conventional wisdom about how the Israel-Palestinian conflict works and -- and the process of terrorist attacks on Israel. Israel responds. Everyone condemns Israel for responding.

And then we need a peace process and aid to flow in to -- to build back up Gaza all over again. And then the cycle repeats. And the whole one-state, the whole two-state solution process.

What this does is just says, yes, we're not thinking along those terms anymore. And that's not a bad thing by my -- by my way of looking at this stuff.

The October 7th attack deserves terrible consequences for Hamas. And this is part of that package of terrible consequences, even though it is an insanely stupid idea.

THOMPSON: Well, to add to that point, I mean, the bigger story here is the fact that Donald Trump is -- is basically declaring unequivocal solidarity with Israel, has essentially abandoned talking about any sort of two-state solution for Gaza.

And you saw even Netanyahu yesterday, you know, throw a little bit of an elbow to Joe Biden and basically say, now there's no daylight between our two countries.

GOLDBERG: And this will keep the right -- the crazy right-wing members of his -- Netanyahu's coalition in for another year. So, it's a huge political gift on that front.

HUNT: So, that was the smile on his face throughout?

GOLDBERG: Yes. I don't think -- I don't think Netanyahu wants America to take over Gaza either. But like, he'll play along.

HUNT: Yes. All right. Still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, FBI leadership being accused of insubordination. It's a showdown brewing with the Justice Department.

Plus, one of the five things you have to see this morning. A runaway boat. How deputies managed to get this under control.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:28:59]

HUNT: All right. It's 20 minutes past the hour. Here are five things you have to see this morning. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on out of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Incredible video showing firefighters rescuing a girl from a burning home. They pulled her through a window, rushed her to safety.

This happened in San Bernardino, California.

Fifty protests in 50 states. Thousands gathered in front of state capitals across the U.S. yesterday, protesting the Trump administration's policies and Elon Musk's expanding role in the White House.

A boat spinning out of control in the water in Florida. A rescue team able to get close enough. That's when a rescuer was able to jump onto the boat and get it to the shore. The person on board the boat had a medical emergency.

So, who's going to win the big game on Sunday? According to some rescued lions, it will be the Kansas City Chiefs. The wildcat sanctuary in Minnesota saved them from Ukraine. Let them make their picks based on the goal posts.

Yes. Sorry, guys, I -- well, I honestly am so superstitious that I'm not going to sit here and say that the Eagles are going to win the Super Bowl. It's just not a thing that we do in Philadelphia.

Anyway, there's also this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(WHISTLE BLOWING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:30:00]