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Yara Hawari is Interviewed about Trump's Comments about Gaza; Justice Department to Dismiss Case Against NYC Mayor. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired February 11, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Over the last few years we've watched as governments, businesses and non-profit organizations have advanced unpopular, and I believe downright ahistorical social agendas through AI. In the U.S. we had AI image generators trying to tell us that George Washington was black, or that America's doughboys in World War I were, in fact, women. Now, we laugh at this now, and, of course, it was ridiculous. But we have to remember the lessons from that ridiculous moment. And what we take from it is that the Trump administration will ensure that AI systems developed in America are free from ideological bias and never restrict our citizens right to free speech.
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MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The American vice president bringing to Europe that messaging that we've been hearing from Washington so clearly of anti-wokeism, but also speaking to the need to continue to lift regulations. In fact, what we've seen so far is the Trump administration, of course, Jim, rolling back what timid regulation had been introduced on AI by President Biden. And that messaging very much brought to Europe.
The vice president will be having lunch with Emmanuel Macron on the table there. Less AI and much more about Ukraine. The American vice president vowing to get European leaders, both here in Paris and when he goes on to the Munich Security Council, to look much clearer - more clearly and urgently on how to bring the war in Ukraine to an end, Jim.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: They were taking their family photo there just now. They love the family photos at these - at these events.
Melissa, I'm curious, given DeepSeek's advances here, is there concern in the room as you've been there that - that the U.S., that the west is losing ground in the AI competition, the battle with China?
BELL: I think one of the lessons of what we've seen from DeepSeek is that American dominance is challenged. And that's something Europeans are hoping to see go further as well. We've been speaking to the CEO of Mishal (ph), a European startup that is hoping to challenge the Chinese and American giants at a time when people said it simply couldn't be done, but that has been one of the key lessons, of course, is that AI can be done cheaper and faster elsewhere than it has been so far, and that's at once a disruptor but, of course, also reason for investors and American entrepreneurs to continue focusing on what can be done next. Very much at the heart of what J.D. Vance had to say here today.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BELL: Essentially, the American tech has been protected so far and will continue to be protected, and the rest of the world better follow suit, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And it raises questions about export controls as a means to restrict China's advances as well, because even without the chips or the ability to get the most advanced chips, they made this enormous step.
Melissa Bell, in Paris, thanks so much.
Still coming up after the break, an unusual heist, to say the least. Thieves caught on camera stealing hundreds of eggs from a restaurant. This as egg prices are soaring amid a nationwide shortage.
Plus, President Donald Trump's ultimatum to Hamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Saturday at 12:00, and after that I would say all hell is going to break out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really, Donald Trump? All hell is going to break - break loose. Have you seen pictures of Gaza recently?
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[06:38:09]
SCIUTTO: With the fate of Gaza and 2 million Palestinians who live there hanging in the balance, President Trump is hosting Jordan's King Abdullah at the White House this morning. The president is threatening now to withhold funding from U.S. allies Jordan and Egypt if they do not agree to take in Palestinian refugees forced from Gaza. Both countries have already quite publicly rejected that idea.
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REPORTER: Would you withhold the aid to these countries if they don't agree to take in the Palestinians?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, maybe. Sure. Why not? You mean if they don't agree?
REPORTER: Is that part of the deal that you mentioned? TRUMP: If they don't agree, I would - I would conceivably withhold aid, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Trump has made it clear he does not believe the Palestinian people should return to Gaza during the current ceasefire and claims, and this is crucial, that they do not have a right to ever come back to their homeland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Think of it as a real estate development for the future. It would be a beautiful piece of land. No big money spent (ph).
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Would the Palestinians have the right to return?
TRUMP: No, they wouldn't, because they're going to have much better housing, much better - in other words, I'm talking about building a permanent place for them, because if they have to return now, it will be years before you could ever - it's not habitable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: I want to speak now to Yara Hawari. She is the co-director of Al-Shabaka, an independent transnational Palestinian policy think tank.
Yara, thanks so much for joining this morning.
YARA HAWARI, CO-DIRECTOR, AL-SHABAKA: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: I want you, if you can, to describe reaction in the region to a sitting U.S. president saying, not only will the U.S. take ownership of Gaza, but that the Palestinian people have no right to return - to ever return to the land that is their home.
HAWARI: Well, I think most people think the comments are absurd.
[06:40:01]
It's yet again another call for ethnic cleansing. But what seems to be quite confusing is his claims to take over Gaza. And actually for personal ownership of Gaza. There's no legal basis for this. There's no sane basis for this. Gaza is Palestinian land, and it always has been. So, the only way that he can actually take over Gaza is by force.
And so that begs the question, will this require American troops on the ground? And some of his officials have already refuted that. And considering his campaign promises of less U.S. intervention and interventionism, it's hard to see how that's going to happen.
And I think his reasons for these comments is because, you know, he said that Gaza has been destroyed, that it's been uninhabitable, and so that's why he's sort of proposing this - this ethnic cleansing. But he never talks about why this is the case. This wasn't a natural disaster. This was a manmade disaster. Israel carpet-bombed Gaza. This tiny piece of land that is about a third of the size of Los Angeles for 15 months straight with U.S. taxpayer funded weapons, might I add.
So, this is a destruction that is as a direct result of U.S. foreign policy. So, I think people in the region and Palestinians find his comments quite absurd and quite detached from reality.
SCIUTTO: You have the Jordanian king meeting with the president in the White House today, and the president publicly applying pressure to Jordan and Egypt to accept a forced migration, in effect. They're going to have to choose between U.S. aid and possibly stability at home because the Egyptian and Jordanian populations would not look kindly on the forced movement of the Palestinian people.
And you already, when you look at Jordan, it has more than 2 million Palestinian refugees already. It becomes a stability question just for, can it absorb them. How do Jordanian and Egyptian leaders make that choice? Do they defy pressure from the U.S. president?
HAWARI: Well, firstly, I think it's really important that we get our language right. You know, this isn't a forced movement. This is ethnic cleansing. It's quite a simple concept. It's the forced removal of an entire ethnic group from the lands in which they live.
King Abdullah has been quite clear up until now that any kind of forced displacement, ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, whether it's from Gaza or the West Bank, is - is a red line that he won't accept. And actually, the Jordanian parliament passed a bill last week that rejected the forced displacement of Palestinians and said that Palestine is for Palestinians.
And I think it's really crucial to understand regional factors here. As you already mentioned, you know, Jordan is considered the stable country and very much a U.S. ally. And it's already home to millions of Palestinian refugees that have been previously forcibly displaced by - by Israel.
And so, for the Jordanian regime, taking in more Palestinians could result in some kind of destabilization. And I think the same goes for the Egyptian regime. So, it's actually in U.S. foreign policy interests to not disrupt the status quo.
But I think also a crucial factor here is the Arab people, both in Jordan and in Egypt, who are overwhelmingly supportive of the Palestinian people, of the Palestinian struggle, despite the policies of their governments. And I think they will outright reject their own government's capitulation on this matter.
SCIUTTO: And that's certainly sensitivity from the leaders there to that feeling.
Before we go, you will often hear about this issue and others that this is just bluster, this is just President Trump talking, but he's repeated this threat, the - in terms of taking aid away from Jordan and Egypt, but also that he wants the U.S. to take over Gaza.
From your point of view, and the people you speak to there, is that a serious proposition by Trump regarding Gaza?
HAWARI: Well, I think we have to take whatever Trump says very seriously. And you're right, he - this wasn't just an off the cuff remark. He has repeated it many times since he first mentioned it. But I think in all of this no one has discussed Palestinian agency. And, you know, as if Palestinians are just these passive, you know, pieces on a chessboard. But they're not. You know, they have survived genocide, 15 months of relentless bombardments and forced starvation, and they are determined to stay on their land. And I think people, including Donald Trump, underestimate that determination.
SCIUTTO: Yes, they have agency.
Yara Hawari, thanks so much for joining this morning.
HAWARI: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, it's the final straw. President Trump signing an executive order ending the paper versus plastic straw debate.
Plus, why President Trump chose to issue a controversial pardon to former Governor Rod Blagojevich.
[06:45:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES ("The Celebrity Apprentice"): I have great respect for you. I have great respect for your tenacity, for the fact that you just don't give up. But, Rod, you're fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: The Trump administration is moving to dismiss the federal corruption trial against New York Mayor Eric Adams. A new Justice Department memo sent by the acting attorney general instructs the Southern District of New York to dismiss the charges as soon as practicable. The memo adds, quote, "the Justice Department has reached this conclusion without assessing the strength of the evidence or the legal theories on which the case is based."
[06:50:00]
The indictment accused the mayor of receiving kickbacks from foreign nationals in exchange for political favors. President Trump has long believed the case was due to Mayor Adams' criticism of the Biden administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (October 17, 2024): Mayor Adams, good luck with everything. They went after you. They went after you, Mayor.
I just want to be nice because I know what it's like to be persecuted by the DOJ for speaking out against open borders. We were persecuted, Eric. I was persecuted, and so were you, Eric.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We should note, prosecutors have noted the investigation began long before that public criticism.
Mayor Adams is not the only Democratic official getting a legal olive branch from the Trump administration.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's my honor to do it. I've watched him. He was set up by a lot of bad people. Some of the same people that I had to deal with. I think he's a - just a very fine person. And this shouldn't have happened. And it shouldn't have happened to him. And let him have a normal life and let him go out and do what he has to do. So, I'm signing this as a full pardon, Rod Blagojevich.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Former Democratic governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, now getting a full pardon on his federal corruption charges, convicted in connection to a scheme to sell the Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama's presidential election. Evidence at the trial included FBI wiretaps such as this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROD BLAGOJEVICH: I've got this thing, and it's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) golden. And I'm just not giving it up for (EXPLETIVE DELETED) nothing.
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SCIUTTO: Blagojevich, we should note, served eight years of a 14-year prison sentence before receiving a commutation from President Trump during his first term.
The former governor spoke to the media last night after he was granted the pardon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROD BLAGOJEVICH: It's over. How interesting it is that when someone goes through something like we went through, and he's gone through what he's gone through, it creates a certain understanding between people who sort of understand that something isn't right and something is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: My panel is back now.
Elliot, you've argued a lot of cases before.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
SCIUTTO: When you look at the evidence and the law as it relates to Blagojevich and Adams, obviously Blagojevich was convicted. Adams was just at an investigation stage.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Was it questionable, that evidence?
WILLIAMS: Well, it - there -
SCIUTTO: Or weak?
WILLIAMS: I think we ought to treat them very differently. I think the Blagojevich one, blame Alexander Hamilton for giving president - for writing and arguing forcefully that presidents ought to have the right to pardon anyone whenever they want. It's a perfectly plausible exercise of presidential power, even though, look, it's kind of gross, it's kind of icky.
The Eric Adams one is a different case. And there's a - there's a few really big problems here. Number one, in my six years at the Justice Department, I never once saw headquarters write a memo to a local prosecutor's office telling them to drop a case. It doesn't happen. I haven't seen Republicans do it. I haven't seen Democrats do it.
And the other bigger thing is that, I think in the last couple weeks that office filed something with the court saying that they'd found additional evidence against Eric Adams.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WILLIAMS: So, this was a strong case that these local prosecutors, federal prosecutors, career prosecutors in New York had brought that the White House just sort of - or headquarters at the Justice Department just superseded. It does not smell right. It doesn't look good.
And this is even more than some of the other cases we've seen just a use of power from Washington when it comes to local prosecutions. It just shouldn't happen.
SCIUTTO: Brad, are you comfortable? Are you comfortable with these pardons?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. No. In the last two months we've seen Joe Biden pardon a couple thousand people, including everybody in his family. We've seen Donald Trump pardon a couple thousand people. I think the pardon power is a bit out of control right now. SCIUTTO: Is there a corruption message coming from this - on these
cases like this, but also when you look at suspending enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which is, you know, a law passed by Congress to prevent bribery of foreign government officials. Is that - is that a message you want -
TODD: There is. There is. I think it goes all the way to the Democrats in the Senate who let Bob Menendez sit in their chamber and vote when it was 50-50 Senate, knowing he was guilty of corruption. I think we have a problem.
SCIUTTO: He was prosecuted, Menendez, though, under an agreement when he was president. Yes.
TODD: Yes, and his - and his colleagues did not ask him to leave because they had to have his 50 votes.
WILLIAMS: And it's why people across America are losing faith in institutions. Pew Research Center has done a ton of research on this point, and released a lot of data on this point, that people just don't like Congress or the courts or anything else. And a lot of it is these turning a blind eye to corruption issues.
Now, this is playing out on a big scale when it comes to the president wagging a finger or - again, the Justice Department, not just the president, wagging a finger at local prosecutors. But it's all part of a slurry of people not trusting government. And it doesn't look good.
SCIUTTO: Ken - sorry, Alex.
ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I was going to say, it's also notable that both of these men both sat down with Tucker Carlson in the last few months. It is - they have been trying to appeal to Donald Trump through his allies.
[06:55:03]
And that's also why Eric Adams has been cooperating with the border czar in this immigration stuff.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
THOMPSON: And it's going to be interesting to see what Eric Adams, because he faces a primary this - in just a few months, and all of his opponents are piling on. It's a question of whether or not this will hurt or help him in that election.
SCIUTTO: We'll see.
KENDRA BARKOFF, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO JOE BIDEN: And I was going to say, this is all about Trump's ego at the end of the day. This is, if you appeal to my ego, you get what you want. If you come down, if you kiss the ring, if you go to Mar-a-Lago and you - and you say the right things and you - and you appeal to my ego, then you're going to get what you want. And I think, to Elliot's point, this is why Americans are not happy, generally speaking, with the way that government is run.
SCIUTTO: Yes, not the way the legal system is supposed to work, at least in theory.
BARKOFF: It is - it is definitely not.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much to all of you for - for spending so much time with me this morning. I'll buy you - I'll buy you coffee.
We are just a few minutes before the top of the hour. Here's your morning roundup.
The Senate voted 52-46, breaking a filibuster on Tulsi Gabbard's nomination to be the director of national intelligence. A final vote on her nomination is expected just after midnight tonight, if not sooner, if they can work it out in the Senate.
The Gulf of America has now arrived on Google Maps. Users in the U.S. will see the new name instead of what it was, the Gulf of Mexico, when they hover over that area of the map. Users in Mexico, however, will see the same name as usual. Everyone else in the world will see both. The change follows an executive order by President Trump renaming the gulf last month.
A Seattle restaurant falling victim to an unusual heist. There they go. Thieves stealing more than 500 eggs from the restaurant. This as egg prices hit a near record high amid shortages. Some grocery stores, including Trader Joes and Costco, are even putting a limit on the number of eggs that customers can buy.
And now this. President Donald Trump has taken aim at a number of policy issues during his first few weeks in office, from dismantling government agencies, to massive immigration crackdowns and deportations. His latest target is much smaller in size. He's now going after paper straws.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going back to plastic straws. These things don't work. I've had them many times, and on occasion they break, they explode. If something's hot, they don't last very long, like a matter of minutes. Sometimes a matter of seconds. It's a ridiculous situation.
And I don't think that plastic's going to affect a shark very much as they're eating - as they're munching their way through the ocean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This isn't the first time he has railed against those pesky paper utensils.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (September 3, 2020): They want to ban straws. Has anybody ever tried those paper straws? They're not working too good, right? So, they want to ban straws. I said, oh really, what about the carton? What about the plate? What about the knives and the spoons that are plastic? Oh, they're OK. But the straws we got to ban. Has anybody ever tried, seriously, the new straw. It's made out of paper, right? It disintegrates as you drink it.
By the time you get finished, the straw is totally disintegrated. Does anybody walk around with a plastic straw? Because it's not bad. You know, you whip it out, boom, boom. You never had to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: My panel is back now.
I don't think you're going to find a constituency for the paper straw out there because it doesn't really work that well.
BARKOFF: I was going to say, I think that these words I never thought would come out of my mouth, but I actually agree with Donald Trump over straws.
WILLIAMS: Oh my God!
TODD: Write it down.
BARKOFF: I know. I know. I know. I know.
WILLIAMS: Here it is, Kendra.
THOMPSON: Today is the day, February 11th.
BARKOFF: I know. The paper straws, I - I agree with that, you know - although we were talking about avocado seed straws. Those should be the way of the future. You can recycle the pits. It's all about recycling still. We can still keep the green message (INAUDIBLE).
WILLIAMS: Is - is that a - is that a thing, avocado straws? Is that -
BARKOFF: It is a thing. And they last for a long time. They do not disintegrate. I highly recommend. They have the consistency of plastic straws.
WILLIAMS: And when avocados are $15 a pound because of tariffs, you could start a straw black market.
BARKOFF: They are going to go up. There you go.
SCIUTTO: How are sharks going to react to avocado seed straws? Are they going to make it through it?
BARKOFF: I - I - I - I think the sharks internals are OK with the straws.
TODD: It will be like a toothpick for a shark.
BARKOFF: I - I think they are OK with the avocado seed straws. THOMPSON: Kendra's not alone among Democrats, though. In 2019, Kamala
Harris was - was for banning plastic straws. But by last summer she was on Donald Trump's team.
TODD: Who knew milkshakes could bring us together?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I was - I was struck by the president's statement that the straws explode. Like, he had me at the disintegrate thing.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.
WILLIAMS: But I've never seen an exploding straw. I don't know.
SCIUTTO: I mean, the thing is, it is part of a broader going after any sort of environmental regulation, plastics, et cetera.
BARKOFF: That's why I brought up (INAUDIBLE).
SCIUTTO: I mean, from EVs to plastic straws, right? I mean this is - this is a central feature of - of the second Trump term.
TODD: If I could take another tack on it. It also is sort of an appeal to common sense.
BARKOFF: Sure.
[07:00:00]
TODD: We have got a lot of government regulations that just violate common sense. This is one of them.
WILLIAMS: The nanny state wagging its finger and telling you what you can and can't do. I think it -
BARKOFF: But is there really a regulation on this though? I mean I think - I don't actually know if there is a national -
TODD: In some states. Some states.
SCIUTTO: The point was to reduce plastic waste, right?
TODD: Yes. Yes.
SCIUTTO: And the president is right, you know, they ban plastic straws, not plastic bottles, of which there are very many and produce a lot more plastic. But I can't imagine there's going to be much progress on that in this term.
Thanks so much to all of you. We discussed everything from Gaza to plastic straws. Thanks so much to you as well for joining us. I'm Jim Sciutto. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.
