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CNN This Morning
Trump Cuts Continue with Eye on Education Department; Trump: Negotiations with Putin to Begin 'Immediately'; Hamas Agrees to Release Hostages as Planned. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired February 13, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: It's Thursday, February 13. Right now, on CNN THIS MORNING.
[06:00:42]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, I'd like it to be closed immediately. Look, the Department of Education is a big con job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: More firings at federal agencies. Terminations now underway at the Department of Education and Small Business Administration. It's going to affect a lot of people.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think they have to make peace. Their people are being killed, and I think they have to make peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Peace talks. President Trump and Vladimir Putin discuss ending the war in Ukraine. What's not clear is Ukraine's role in its own future. What will Ukraine's president -- have any say?
And, new this hour, Hamas now says it will release hostages as planned this weekend. This after a dispute with Israel over the Gaza ceasefire.
Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): If the Senate had a secret ballot, I bet you that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. would never have come close to confirmation.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Well, now indeed, RFK Jr. is very close to confirmation. Senators start voting on the nation's Health and Human Services secretary in about an hour.
Just past 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. Here's a live look at the Capitol. A little cloudy this morning.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Jim Sciutto in for Kasie Hunt. Great to have you with us.
And new this morning: a wave of firings is now under way here in Washington. Donald Trump and Elon Musk charging ahead at full speed in their quest to drastically reduce the federal workforce.
Last night, some employees at the Department of Education and Small Business Administration began receiving letters informing them, quote, "The agency finds, based on your performance, that you have not demonstrated that your further employment -- employment at the agency would be in the public interest."
The full scope of the firings not clear yet. So far, the Trump administration has not said exactly how many people will be impacted.
The wider DOGE-driven effort to fire federal workers receiving a vital legal boost yesterday. A federal judge allowed the president's so- called deferred resignation offer to proceed, despite pausing it.
The White House saying that around 75,000 federal workers have now accepted the offer, which claims to trade them months of pay in exchange for willingly leaving their jobs. That's close to 4 percent of the nation's roughly 2 million civilian federal workers.
As President Trump and Elon Musk look for more places to slash funding and jobs, the Department of Education finds itself very much front and center.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How soon do you want the Department of Education to be closed?
TRUMP: Oh, I'd like it to be closed immediately. Look, the Department of Education is a big con job. We're ranked -- So, they rank the top 40 countries in the world. We're ranked number 40th [SIC], but we're ranked Number 1 [SIC] in one department. Costs per pupil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss: Isaac Dovere, CNN senior reporter; Meghan Hays, Democratic strategist, former director of message planning for the Biden White House; and Joe Walsh, former Republican representative for Illinois and host of the podcast "The Social Contract."
Good to have you all here. I mean, you know, the question about these cuts, right, is they're
clearly popular with some. When do they start affecting average Americans, is the question, Joe.
And is there -- is there a potential danger there for the Trump administration that folks will begin to notice; that they don't get services they used to rely on?
JOE WALSH, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: Yes. Because as most Americans right now really have no idea what's going on -- I mean, think about that. Most Americans don't know what Elon Musk is doing. They're not going to feel the impact of this stuff until it hits.
Jim, I say this as a former member of Congress, that government is too big. We can look for efficiency and all of that.
But I keep thinking about the rule of law. There's a legal way to do this, and this gets missed every time we talk about this. Darn near everything that Trump and Musk are doing right now is being taken to court.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WALSH: And just unilaterally firing federal employees that Congress has already appropriated money for, that story has got to be told.
SCIUTTO: Meghan, the Democrats' strategy seems to be to fight this in court, right? They're still struggling to find not just a message, but -- but it seems someone capable of delivering -- delivering that message in a convincing fashion. Who's going to step to the fore?
[06:05:11]
Or is the Democratic strategy -- It strikes me the Democratic strategy is just wait for people to feel the pain.
MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I mean, that's unfortunate, and I don't think that's going to be a good service for our country. I think that will be seen in the midterms. I do think that will end up being what happens.
I don't think Democrats know who the messenger is going to be. I don't think a lot of members of Congress are stepping up to the plate.
Thank goodness for these legal organizations that are out there suing, because the members of Congress really are not providing that leadership right now. And I think they are starting to, but they got -- it seemed like they got caught a little flat-footed.
I'm not sure what more they can do. I don't think protesting outside of these agencies is really helpful.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HAYS: I think it makes them look breathless.
And I do think, until people realize that their services are being cut, they are not going to understand what's going on here.
So, I think this is going to be something that will be felt in the midterms and in 2028, which unfortunately, Donald Trump will not feel the effects of. This will not impact Donald Trump. It will impact the Republican Party moving forward.
SCIUTTO: Unless he decides to run again, which he does occasionally say publicly.
Isaac, I wonder if that speed is part of the strategy here, right? Is you keep pushing before folks notice. And before you know it, 5, 10 percent of the federal workforce is gone.
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, the speed is definitely part of the idea here. Look, we're three and a half weeks into the Trump presidency, and a lot has taken place. A lot of moves to fire and cut have been going on.
And though these legal challenges are going on, they take time. Even though even if they're successful, it will be weeks and months from now for them to -- to fully go through.
And there's also -- clearly, part of the strategy from the Trump folks is they'll win some of these lawsuits.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
DOVERE: And they got good news yesterday on one of them, right? So, the more things that they can throw out there, the -- it's like playing the odds, basically.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
Joe, I wonder: is there any limit to Republican support for this president? I mean, if you look at the -- the cabinet confirmations, right, going in, a lot of Republicans were -- Republicans were saying there is no way Tulsi Gabbard will get through or RFK Jr. or Pete Hegseth.
And, you know, privately -- privately, Republicans would express opposition, not publicly. And eventually, they all came around. What -- is there a limit to Republican support?
WALSH: No. No, Jim. No. And it's early to yell. I mean, my God, look back. Matt Gaetz would have been approved.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WALSH: Looking back.
SCIUTTO: You think so?
WALSH: They all would have been approved.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WALSH: when Trump won in November, his hold on this party became permanent. And it really incorporated everybody.
before the November election, Jim, I'd have Republicans privately tell me --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WALSH: -- he's going to lose, and that's a good thing.
They're all on board now.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WALSH: So, there's going to be no help from Republicans.
HAYS: Right. But -- but also, Donald Trump isn't the only person that can have these Republicans losing their job. People vote for them.
So, I just think that a better strategy here would be to go into local media markets and make their constituents understand some of the things that they are voting for, because they can also be challenged by primary people that are not from Donald Trump and from other Democrats.
So, it's interesting to me that they think that Donald Trump is the only person that controls their future, because it's not. Their constituents do.
SCIUTTO: Well, we're going to -- we're going to test it.
WALSH: They know Donald Trump controls those base voters.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And they've certainly scared a lot of these senators, for instance, on these cabinet votes, by saying we will primary you.
HAYS: Yes.
SCIUTTO: And by the way, I have a guy here next to me who has the money to do it, to fund it on his own.
Stay here. There's a lot more to talk about. Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, after a 90-minute phone call on the fate of a war that Russia started, President Trump announces a face-to-face meeting with Vladimir Putin on the horizon.
Will Ukraine play any role in peace talks on its future?
Plus, Democrats try to land their punches in the House's DOGE subcommittee's first hearing. We're going to discuss live with Democratic Congressman Glenn Ivey.
And make the Kennedy Center, quote, "hot" again. President Trump, now the head of the iconic performing arts organization. How he says he's going to shake it up in the midst of his ongoing culture war push.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: So, we took over the Kennedy Center. We didn't like what they
were showing and various other things. We're going to make sure that it's good, and it's not going to be woke. There's no more woke in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:13:45]
SCIUTTO: A truly monumental shift in U.S. foreign policy. Donald Trump calling for direct negotiations with Vladimir Putin to end Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
And the American president's opening move: to make major concessions, giving Russia several of its chief objectives before those talks even begin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They've been saying that for a long time, that Ukraine cannot go into NATO. And -- and I'm -- and I'm OK with that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see any future in which Ukraine returns to its pre-2014 borders?
TRUMP: Well, I think Pete said today that that's unlikely, right? It certainly would seem to be unlikely. They took a lot of land, and they fought for that land. And they lost a lot of -- they lost a lot of soldiers.
But it would just seem to me -- and I'm not -- I'm not making an opinion on it, but I've read a lot on it. And a lot of people think that that's unlikely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Of course, President Trump didn't say there who took Ukraine's land. It is Russia. He's not mentioning who is still fighting to occupy that land and gain more of it.
In fact, not once did president -- the president say the words "Russia" or "Russian" during those remarks in the Oval Office.
He did, however, talk plenty about Russian President Vladimir Putin. Trump described his conversation with Putin as, quote, "highly productive" and noted that the two leaders agreed to visit each other's countries.
[06:15:05]
President Trump later added that Saudi Arabia will likely host the first round of talks between the two.
One man not invited at this point is President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. As Ukrainians prepare to mark three years of war and over a decade since Russia first invaded their territory, President Trump isn't even sure they're vital to these talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you view Ukraine as an equal member of this peace process?
TRUMP: It's an interesting question. I think they have to make peace. Their people are being killed, and I think they have to make peace.
I said that was not a good war to go into, and I think they have to make peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: "That was not a good war to go into." The president seeming to suggest there that Ukraine chose to be invaded by Russia.
Since 2014, Ukraine has lost almost a fifth of its territory to Russian and Russian-backed forces in the country's South and the East.
And since Russia's full-scale invasion, coming up on three years ago next week, thousands, many thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed. Hundreds of thousands more have been wounded in Europe's bloodiest war since World War II.
The U.N. estimates more than 12,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed, many by Russian drones and missiles striking deep and deliberately into cities and towns far away from the front lines.
All of this amounting to a fundamental change in America's approach, not just to Ukraine, but to Europe, to NATO and to America's allies.
Here's Trump's own former national security advisor, John Bolton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: President Trump has effectively surrendered to Putin before the negotiations have even begun.
He has now, it seems, exactly what he wants. Putin doesn't want to negotiate with Zelenskyy. He wants to negotiate with Trump, because he thinks he'll get more out of it. And he's absolutely right.
I think Putin couldn't be happier. I tell you, they're drinking vodka straight out of the bottle in the Kremlin tonight. It was a great day for Moscow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Panel back with me now.
Joe, the Ukraine war used to be a bipartisan effort. When I was in Ukraine for the invasion, when I returned, Democratic and Republican lawmakers said quite clearly and publicly they support Ukraine. This shall not stand.
That has changed. The facts of the war have not changed. That has changed. Do you see the Trump administration preparing to abandon Ukraine here?
WALSH: Completely. Jim, this is just so infuriating. But you've just got to cut to the chase.
I mean, none of this is surprising. And it makes sense what Trump is doing. He's negotiating for Putin. He's siding with Putin. An American president is siding with Vladimir Putin.
Three years ago, Putin invaded a sovereign country. I mean, think. This is just madness, that three years later, Trump and Putin are getting together -- as you said, where's Zelenskyy -- to negotiate some sort of peace deal when Putin invaded that country.
And my former party will be absolutely silent. This is despicable.
SCIUTTO: Meghan, did Democrats fail, including Kamala Harris in the election, fail to explain sufficiently and successfully to American voters why a war like Ukraine, or more broadly, standing up to Russia matters to them?
HAYS: Yes, I do think they did. But it's also hard to explain why democracy is on the line with NATO countries when people can't afford their groceries. Because they are worried about their issues here domestically and not worried about their foreign policy issues and things like NATO, which are extremely important to withholding democracy and keeping wars off of our own shores.
And so, I do think we weren't successful in explaining that, but we weren't successful in solving the problems that were immediate to people, to be able to have them understand why some of these other issues that are much more abstract, in their minds, are important.
SCIUTTO: Isaac, in the last administration, when the Trump -- when Trump went beyond what used to be bipartisan U.S. foreign policy, he had checks inside his own administration who told him, Well, like a John Bolton, that that ain't right. That's not in our interests. Or John Kelly or others.
They're all gone now. Now, it is true. He does have people in his administration -- Marco Rubio, Mike Waltz, among them -- who previously thought these were important things. And their public comments backed that.
But it doesn't appear that they're moving the president off this -- this change now.
DOVERE: No, the people that he appointed to his administration, he wanted to be completely in fealty to him and following him. It -- also in Congress. Right?
You look at these confirmation votes, people who voted for Pete Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard, who put themselves forward as being very serious about national security issues and taking all these things in real, real depth before, but have voted for people that they have previously been very critical of themselves.
Lindsey Graham, incredibly critical of Tulsi Gabbard, but voted for her to be the new director of national intelligence.
But look, with Trump here, I think you have one of four things basically going on.
One is possibly what Joe said, that he's just doing what Putin wants.
[06:20:04]
Two is that he's actually going at this from a position of weakness, saying, I don't really care. I don't -- it doesn't affect me. But actually, not taking a strong position for America.
Three might be that he actually doesn't care. Right? And it doesn't matter him.
And four is that he has a view of the world where he wants to let other countries do what they do. Maybe China will go into Taiwan now, but maybe he'll go into the Panama Canal.
And what will happen at that point is that he will say, we've been following this standard procedure here.
But it is the new Trump world order, as far as American influence around the world and what it will respond to.
SCIUTTO: That's bad news for Ukraine. It's bad news for Taiwan.
DOVERE: Yes.
SCIUTTO: It's bad news for the NATO alliance. It's a major change, and we're watching it play out before our eyes.
Stay with us. Other news at home. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. just hours away from all but certain confirmation. The Senate to vote on the vaccine critic as the nation's Health and Human Services secretary.
Plus. Breaking this morning, Hamas now says it will release Israeli hostages over the weekend, as the ceasefire deal calls for. We're going to have more on that when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:25:26]
SCIUTTO: New this morning, Hamas now says it will release hostages as planned on Saturday. Earlier in the week, it had threatened to postpone the next hostage release, accusing Israel of breaking -- violating the ceasefire deal.
President Donald Trump urged Israel to cancel the deal if Hamas followed through on the threat. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As far as I'm concerned, if all of the hostages aren't returned by Saturday at 12, I think it's an appropriate time. I would say cancel it; and all bets are off, and let hell break out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The terror group said it made the decision to go ahead with the initial plan after positive talks with mediators.
CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins me now.
And Salma, is the feeling now that this, at least the first phase of the ceasefire agreement will hold now?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It feels like things may go ahead as planned on Saturday. I think everyone is taking things a day at a time, Jim.
So, what we understand now is, after what was described as positive talks that were led by Egypt and Qatar -- these are the mediators, of course, behind this ceasefire deal, in addition to others.
After those talks, Hamas did say it will go ahead with the exchange on Saturday. So normally we see just that morning it happens just a few hours before the actual exchange takes place that Hamas releases the names of the hostages to be released that day.
And then in exchange, we've seen several hundred Palestinian prisoners at a time being released from Israeli prisons. Hamas saying that will go ahead. But it reiterated its stance that it wants to see the ceasefire deal implemented.
Now, all of this began because Hamas accused Israel of violating the deal. Specifically, they were concerned about tents, shelter, which are very needed right now in Gaza.
Of course, most people have been displaced. Homes are in ruins. Hamas says it needs that vital aid to come into the Gaza Strip and accuses Israel of blocking it.
Now, Israel says this isn't taking place, but behind the scenes, unofficial sources have said that that is happening, that we are not seeing these tents and shelters come through the enclave as they're needed.
Again, these are minor in the grand scheme of things. These are more minor disagreements that are being hammered out in these negotiating rooms.
The more major issue of President Trump trying to relocate all of Gaza, that still very much looms over these ceasefire talks.
So, the hope for now for these mediators is that Saturday goes off as planned. For Hamas, the hope is that they demonstrate that they are a willing partner in these negotiations. And for the Arab world at large, they're trying to bide their time here, Jim, until they can propose an alternative that they hope and pray Trump will at least listen to.
SCIUTTO: We know Jordan and Egypt, certainly not comfortable at all with the prospect of absorbing an entire people.
Salma Abdelaziz, thanks so much.
Still coming up after the break, Kash Patel's nomination fight to lead the FBI faces a critical vote today.
Plus, President Trump giving an OK to move forward with his buy outs to shrink the federal workforce. We're going to break it down, live with Democratic Congressman Glenn Ivey coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MELANIE STANSBURY (D-NM): Donald Trump and Elon Musk are recklessly and illegally dismantling the federal government.
REP. STEPHEN LUNCH (D-MA): If we're going after waste, fraud and abuse, let's start with abuse. Abuse of power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[06:30:00]
