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CNN This Morning
Supreme Court Hears Charter School Dispute; U.S. and Japan Trade Talks; Julie Rovner is Interviewed about Medicaid; Cardiff Garcia is Interviewed about China Tariffs; Republicans Look at Replacing Gas Tax. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired April 30, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:30:29]
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": You can tell Trump just wants to focus on the positives. Today when asked about his tariffs that tanked the economy, he said, to quote Bill Belichick's girlfriend, we're not talking about this.
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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: How are President Trump's tariffs affecting the economy? Today, we're going to get a report card for his first quarter back in office.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.
It's half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.
In just hours, we'll have our first glimpse at President Trump's second term economic record. The Commerce Department is set to release its estimate of first quarter growth. Experts predict a weaker number, less than 1 percent, in growth.
And later this morning, President Trump will assemble his cabinet to celebrate his first 100 days in office. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth will be at the table. President Trump is sticking with him despite the Signal group chat drama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Would be a very good defense secretary. He'd be great.
TERRY MORAN, ABC NEWS ANCHOR AND SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You have 100 percent confidence in Pete Hegseth?
TRUMP: I don't have 100 percent confidence in anything, OK, anything. Do I have 100 percent? It's a stupid question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: The president also telling ABC that he had a, quote, "good talk" with Hegseth about Signal-gate.
Today, the Senate is expected to take up a vote to block President Trump's tariffs. Earlier this month, they passed a similar effort to overturn his tariffs on Canada with the help of four Republicans. But that doesn't mean much because the House likely won't take this up after.
Also this morning, the Supreme Court will hear arguments in a high stakes dispute involving taxpayer funding and religious education. So, this case focuses on the nation's first religious charter school. It's a catholic school in Oklahoma, and the charter school board there approved it. Eventually, Oklahoma's supreme court got involved and ruled against the school because of the idea that charter schools are considered public. And this would be a religious instruction going on.
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DR. ROBERT FRANKLIN, FORMER OKLAHOMA SCHOOL BOARD CHAIRMAN: This pathway of teaching religion in a public school does, I think, put the first -- put the first step in motion for the dam to be broken up, separation of church and state.
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CORNISH: Group chat is back.
We're going to hit up Charlie because you were involved in charter school regulation in Pennsylvania. What are the things that people don't understand about this idea of like public versus the parochial school model? Because people think, oh, charter schools, as long as it's not the public school, who really cares?
CHARLIE DENT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASPEN INSTITUTE CONGRESSIONAL PROGRAM: Well, a charter school is a, in fact, a public school. I helped write the law in the 1990s when Tom Ridge was governor of Pennsylvania. Basically, the way it worked in our state, if a student went to a charter school, 80 percent of the funding for that student, public money, would follow that student.
A parochial school, of course, is a private school. And there are many states that have vouchers or grants to go to the students' parents, and then they can use that to pay for the child's education. It's not a direct subsidy to the parochial school.
CORNISH: So, who do you think - what - why are they trying to open this door? Is this an education story or a religious liberty story?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, in my view, something like this happens because you have a lot of parents who, I think, post-Covid have begun looking for alternative education opportunities for their kids.
CORNISH: But need a way to pay for it. ANDERSON: And - and - exactly. And, you know, different - you've had a
lot of big wins for the school choice movement in big states like Texas this year. But this is a little bit different because this is, again, still within the confines of the public system. It's also coming, interestingly, at a time that we're seeing religious observance overall on a bit of a decline. I mean this is a longer-term trend line, with an exception of, there's been a little bit of a, like, revival among, say, like gen-z men. Just think it's interesting the dynamics of how people are thinking about spiritual faith in America today.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: But to get at the heart of it, I mean, it is a separation of church and state issue, obviously, that the court will be grappling with. Now, do I think that this court, which has, as most courts -
CORNISH: Yes. Yes.
CHALIAN: Have a tendency to not do a sweeping kind of decision here, but maybe we're going to get something more narrow to this Oklahoma case.
CORNISH: But it could open a door, yes.
CHALIAN: But it certainly can open a door and raises questions because, you're right, they're publicly funded. It's taxpayer money for these schools. They're independently run. I know some folks may think of charters as not, but it is taxpayer money. And so, when you get taxpayer money involved in religious education, it does seem to - that we all have to sort of grapple with that basic constitutional principle.
CORNISH: And it scrambles the politics here.
[06:35:01]
So, here's Oklahoma's attorney general, Gentner Drummond, describing the consequences of allowing religious charter schools.
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GENTNER DRUMMOND, OKLAHOMA ATTORNEY GENERAL: If there is a satanic application, we have to grant it. If there's a Sharia law applicant, we have to grant that. And I think, although Oklahomans in general would support any Christian activity, this is not about Christian and non-Christian. This is about, you know, the rule of law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: This was really fascinating happening against the backdrop also of the dismantling of the Education Department, right? These very heady conversations will be at the state level.
DENT: Yes, the easy way out of this is, if you want to get a religious education, go to the parochial school. And as a policymaker, well, then you can provide a voucher. That's - that's withstood constitutional muster.
But basically having religious instruction in a public school, in a charter school, is a public school, a publicly funded school, I think goes a bit further than any of us would have ever imagined.
CORNISH: At the - exactly. And the fact that it got to the court and got this far is something that people are really surprised about.
So, group chat, stick around. We've got a lot more to talk about in other topics today.
Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, for example, is expected to meet with negotiators from Japan to talk trade. Right now the U.S. is imposing a 10 percent universal tariff on Japan, and an additional one that had been planned is paused. Anyway, that's on top of a 25 percent auto tariff. So, these are already taking a toll on U.S. companies that do business in Asia, and their customers.
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ROGER PAUL, BUSINESS OWNER: Every time you get a truck in, we're having to reprint price labels.
We have to pass on prices to the customers. You know, if our prices go up, then our prices have to go up.
KIMBERLY FIELDS, CUSTOMER: Prices really went up as far as getting the vegetables.
Was impacting me personally as far as savings and leaning back on the things, what I do eat and definitely getting off the things I don't need to.
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CORNISH: We're going to go live to Tokyo now and bring in CNN's Hanako Montgomery.
And, Hanako, first, let's just talk about these talks. What's expected today?
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Audie. It's good to see you.
So, these talks are actually coming at a really interesting time. They're coming on the heels of a new executive order that the U.S. president, Donald Trump, signed on Tuesday. Now, this executive order does ease some auto tariffs, which is a huge sticking point for Japan and the U.S. during these tariff negotiations. But Trump has said that this new order is actually meant to help U.S. auto manufacturers, as they're trying to navigate this interim period where they're expected to bring back a lot of manufacturing to the United States from competitor countries, like Canada, China, Japan and Mexico, for example.
In fact, here's what the U.S. president had to say about those competitor countries at a rally in Michigan on Tuesday.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, we don't want them building them in Japan. We want them to build them here. We want China to build them in here. We want them all to build them right in here. Thats what they've done to us for 40 years, and they've drained us.
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MONTGOMERY: Now, Audie, we can expect Japan's top tariff negotiator, Ryosei Akazawa, to ask that Japan be exempt from the existing auto tariffs. Akazawa himself has said that they're simply too high for a lot of Japanese car makers, that they can't absorb those additional costs. And this is a huge, huge issue for Japan as a whole, as a country, really, given the fact that about 3 percent of its GDP comes from profits made from the auto manufacturing industry. So again, Audie, we can expect the top tariff negotiator to ask for some concessions, some deals that they can hopefully strike with the U.S. to ease this economic impact.
Audie.
CORNISH: CNN's Hanako Montgomery in Tokyo. Thank you for your insight here. Appreciate it.
The president has done a lot on his own the last 100 days using executive orders, but he needs Congress if he wants to get everything on his budget wish list, especially tax cuts. To make the math work, Republicans on the committee that oversees Medicaid and Medicare are looking to cut billions of dollars. And since cuts to Medicare for seniors is a political third rail, Trump wants House Republicans to focus on the insurance program for the poor, Medicaid.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: House Republicans are working to invest more money in Medicaid than we spend today. The only thing we're going to cut is the corruption and the crooks that take advantage of - some of the illegal schemes.
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CORNISH: Eighty-two million people across the U.S. currently rely on Medicaid services for everything from children's health to elder care. So, joining me now to discuss, Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for Kaiser Health News.
So, Julie, you and I both covered the - the Affordable Care Act. So, we've been having this conversation for a long time. Can you talk about the potential cuts, like, what is the idea that - that's come forward?
[06:40:01] JULIE ROVNER, HOST, "WHAT THE HEALTH?" PODCAST: So, one thing that's important to realize is that Medicaid, I actually went back and looked, this is my 39th year covering Medicaid. There were 17 million people on Medicaid in 1986 when I started doing this. Now there are, as you said, if you include the children's health insurance program, 80 million people.
CORNISH: In states across the country, including states that we call red states.
ROVNER: And many red states. And many public polls say that most people know somebody or have themselves or a family member who have been on Medicaid, who have been helped by Medicaid. They don't want to see it cut.
At the same time, we now have the House Energy and Commerce Committee with instructions to cut $880 billion, most of which, if it doesn't come from Medicare, will have to come from Medicaid. So, they're looking for ways to cut it without seeming to cut it.
CORNISH: Yes. So, here's an example of a reluctant lawmaker. We had a Republican congressman, I think it was Dusty Johnson, who was sort of asked about this - this idea.
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LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What are you comfortable with on Medicaid?
REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): I think it looks like overwhelmingly members are not excited. They're not going to be supportive of cutting benefits to people who deserve to be on those programs. We're a rich country. We absolutely need to take care of the most needy among us.
That being said, there are all kinds of integrity and eligibility measures that can be done to really make sure we focus those dollars on America's most needy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, decode the legislative-ease here. When we talk eligibility, when we talk - like, what are they really saying?
ROVNER: Well, one thing we know about Medicaid is that the more you make people come back and interact with the system, the more likely they are to fall through the cracks, even if they're still eligible. So, if you have to have them sort of re-up every six months instead of every year, you're going to get fewer people on Medicaid. That will save money, but that will not necessarily be cutting people who are ineligible.
CORNISH: Right. So saying to states, don't chase down the people who forget to sign up. That's their problem.
ROVNER: Right. And that's what we see also with work requirements, which is the other big popular idea. What we know about Medicaid is that 90 percent of the people on Medicaid either already work, they can't work, or they're taking care of someone who can't work.
CORNISH: Oh, so why are we talking about that?
ROVNER: Because we've discovered, when the few states that have tried work requirements is, again, that friction with the system, many of them have trouble reporting their work hours, and they end up getting disenrolled. Again, you save money, but you're not getting rid of ineligible people, you're getting rid of eligible people.
CORNISH: Does the math of cutting the budget work without hacking away at Medicaid?
ROVNER: Not the way it's structured now. And, of course, it's interesting because the Senate doesn't seem to really be very enthusiastic about this. So, right now we're just looking at the house in terms of these Medicaid cuts. We'll see if the House can get to a number that they can agree on. So far there's a lot of talking and not a lot of writing.
CORNISH: Julie Rovner, thank you so much. I hope you come back because, honestly, this is not going to go away.
ROVNER: It is not.
CORNISH: So, I need a translator. I appreciate it.
Still ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, a dangerous measles outbreak actually now spreading across several U.S. states. What the World Health Organization is saying as the outbreak grows.
Plus, some lawmakers unveiled plans for an annual car fee. So, how much is that going to cost you?
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[06:47:22]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Retailers and large importers are telling me directly that they've all but stopped imports from China. Goods coming out of China are two and a half times more expensive than they were just last month.
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CORNISH: President Trump's tariffs are taking a toll on businesses, large and small, as well as on you, their customers. There are reports that Amazon even floated a plan to show you how much these tariffs would cost next to their prices. The White House called that a hostile political act. President Trump then calls up Jeff Bezos directly to complain. Amazon says, look, you got it all confused. This wasn't really approved. It was only an idea, not for the consumer specifically.
Another problem for the president, though, is China, because its foreign ministry says, "bowing to a bully is like drinking poison to quench a thirst. It only deepens the crisis."
President Trump, of course, disagrees.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: China probably will eat those tariffs. But at 145, they basically can't do much business with the United States.
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CORNISH: Cardiff Garcia is here. He's the editorial director of the Economic Innovation Group and the host and co-creator of "The New Bazaar" podcast, which it must be exciting times at "The New Bazaar" podcast.
CARDIFF GARCIA, HOST AND CO-CREATOR, "THE NEW BAZAAR" PODCAST: Oh, it never ends.
CORNISH: Many a phone call.
GARCIA: Yes, it's great.
CORNISH: OK, so, where do we stand in this moment? This week we talked about the idea of, like, oh, there's going to be earnings reports.
GARCIA: Yes.
CORNISH: It's not just the first hundred days, it's the first quarter. And this is when people are supposed to get on their little speaker phones and say, here's what's going to happen. And what's been the vibe?
GARCIA: Well, typically what happens at these events is that a lot of big companies, the ones that trade on the stock market, will give you guidance for how they're going to do in the coming quarter or the coming year.
What I've been struck by is how many of these companies, companies like GM, Delta, UPS, Snap, have essentially said that this time we're not giving you that guidance on how well we're going to do.
CORNISH: I can't imagine investors love that.
GARCIA: They don't love it. The public doesn't like it.
CORNISH: Like, you have one job.
GARCIA: Yes, but, you know what, they've essentially said that if we tell you it won't be reliable. And that's not helpful because the economic environment has become so uncertain. And collectively, these companies make up a huge chunk of the economy itself. So, that gives you a sense of just how much of - just how much uncertainty has been unleashed by these tariffs.
CORNISH: OK, that's Wall Street, here's main street. GARCIA: Sure.
CORNISH: A furniture business in Los Angeles. This is their owner talking about the impact of the tariffs so far.
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LARRY GOLD, OWNER, ALDIK HOMES: We'll have a Christmas in July sale and get rid of some things. But if it's not - if it's not a going out of business sale. When it comes in, we're going to have to write a check for $600,000 to the factory, which is about what we bought, and a $1 million check to customs.
[06:50:01]
I mean, we won't do it. It's - we'll leave the product at the harbor or cancel the order.
We've been in business for 70 years. We'll - we'll go under if it stays like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Not that it was the point, but it does feel like Trump and the Trump administration is trying to engineer an economy where someone like that doesn't have that much product from China on the shelves to begin with.
GARCIA: Yes. So, what's happening now is that there's just a standoff between the two countries. And I think each side is waiting for the other one to blink. And so that the de-escalation can start right because, in the meantime, it's going to hurt both economies.
The thing to know, though, is that China has been preparing for exactly this moment since at least the first Trump term, developing -
CORNISH: When there were a bunch of tariffs then on China.
GARCIA: Right. That's essentially when the trade wars really escalated. It was continued, in fairness, under Joe Biden. And now it's gone to a level that I think people just hadn't anticipated. And China's been getting ready for this. It's been developing a lot of legal tools, economic tactics that it can use to harm specific American industries in response.
CORNISH: Like what?
GARCIA: So, for example, we've seen them stop exporting to the U.S. these rare earths, which are these elements that are necessary to make a lot of goods here in the U.S., a lot of high tech goods.
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA: We've seen them stop buying certain agricultural products as well from the U.S.
CORNISH: Let me guess, soy products.
GARCIA: That's right.
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA: That's exactly right. And more fundamentally, the Chinese political situation is very different from ours, right?
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA: The leadership there is deeply entrenched. So. they're betting that they can ride it out longer than the U.S. can. And so, in the meantime, there's a standoff. And, yes, people in both places are going to get hurt.
CORNISH: Also, it's interesting because unlike a smaller country, a Vietnam, right, or Italy or whatever, like, people being like, OK, yes, let's talk, let's talk.
GARCIA: Yes.
CORNISH: What - we heard that quote, right, about drinking poison, China is talking about the U.S. as a bully, that they have to stand up to, which is not like out of the realm of how other countries are seeing this.
GARCIA: Yes, increasingly so.
CORNISH: Yes. So, I think that that's like an added element to the negotiation here, or lack thereof.
GARCIA: Well, previously, part of the American strategy was precisely to develop deeper relationship with traditional U.S. allies and then essentially confront China that way and try to get it to, you know, impose changes on the way that it trades with other places.
The problem now is that China sees an opening, and now it's China that's going to traditional U.S. allies and saying, hey, we're a big trading partner of yours too. And you can see that the U.S. is not reliable. It has imposed tariffs on you guys as well. So now lets us get together and confront the U.S. instead.
So, how far that will go, I don't know, right.
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA: It really depends on what happens in the next few months. But that is the - that is the strategy that they're deploying.
CORNISH: Last quick question.
Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has been out there talking a lot. Is it helping or hurting? Because the message is a little bit patience. You know, we have a plan. Is that actually making a difference?
GARCIA: You know, what's - what's tricky about this is that, depending on the day, a different, you know, part of the White House will say something completely different to what somebody else has already said.
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA: So, I think, in general, the comments coming out of the White House are adding to the confusion about what the strategy actually is. Is it to raise money from the tariffs, or is it to use the tariffs to negotiate more trade with other countries and get them to lower their tariffs in exchange for our lowering - lowering our tariffs? And when you have a lot of these comments that don't make it clear exactly what the strategy is, it, once again, adds to the uncertainty that a lot of people in the business community are experiencing.
CORNISH: All right, Cardiff, always a pleasure to have you here.
GARCIA: Thank you.
CORNISH: Thank you for explaining it.
You can catch Cardiff on "The New Bazaar" podcast.
All right, we're going to turn to some of your headlines because it's seven minutes to the top of the hour. Here's your morning roundup.
Harvard University facing backlash over two new reports about anti- Semitism and anti-Muslim bias on campus. Some students told the university task force assigned to do the review that they felt unsafe and unheard. And this is all happening as a legal battle over federal funding continues to play out in court.
The World Health Organization is warning that the risk of catching measles in the U.S. is high, as a multistate outbreak grows. At this point, 781 people in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma and possibly Kansas have gotten the measles this year alone. Experts believe the actual number may be higher because many cases go unreported.
And getting ready to fly even higher this summer. The FAA announced that it will soon instruct some commercial planes to go above the usual 35,000 feet. This will mostly affect flights to and from Florida. The FAA says the change in altitude will help increase efficiency and cut down on delays.
Finally, there's a new proposal. House Republicans are considering an annual car tax or fee. Basically, every passenger vehicle would have to pay a $20 registration fee, and it would actually be higher if you have a hybrid or EV.
[06:55:02]
But there could be some potholes, as we say, in the plan. It's already facing backlash from some conservatives who say gas vehicles should be exempt altogether. Not to mention this roadblock, people already complain about having to pay state car fees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $1,700 for the year. I owe $1,700. I don't have $1,700 to pay my car taxes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have to pay taxes for a car that's already paid off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, so, the group chat is back to take this on. This is such an issue that affects so many people. And the social contract has always been like, we're going to build these highways and we're going to take care of things, and the gas tax is going to help with that process, as that has made less and less money. This is when lawmakers start looking at this idea.
Charlie, you and I, during the break, were having a vigorous debate because I, as a person who does happen to have, like, a hybrid car, was like, no, I don't want to pay this tax. That's why I have the hybrid car. What's your argument here?
DENT: Well, those of us who drive internal combustion engine vehicles, we get to pay for the use of the roads through the gas tax. If you drive an electric vehicle, you do not pay for the use of the roads. So, I -
CORNISH: But look at the fee, $200 for electric.
DENT: Well, I understand. But how much do I pay in gas taxes each year. I mean I think Chairman Sam Graves is on to something. If you buy an electric vehicle, you get a tax credit to do so. But the poor guy who's got a used car, that's an internal combustion engine, he gets to pay for the roads, not only for himself, but for the guy driving the EV. So, I think there's a fairness question here. Sam Graves, chairman of the committee, is right to have this conversation. We are getting less revenue per vehicle mile driven because of efficiency and the EVs.
CORNISH: Yes.
DENT: So, this is something the government needs to fund - fund roads.
CORNISH: And then you're right to have the conversation. The blowback, though, is also coming from inside the House. So, here's Republican Congressman Chip Roy when he heard this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): Are you out of your freaking mind? We're going to - like, the party of limited government is going to go out and say we're going to have this car tax?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: That's - that's legal speak. Just, like, that's legislative language.
ANDERSON: Yes. Yes. That is - does -
CORNISH: Yes.
ANDERSON: That - that is very on brand for Chip Roy, first of all. And, second of all, I do think that this is the kind of thing where anytime you're asking citizens to perhaps have to incur more paperwork, in addition to paying a fee, there is a real potential for -
CORNISH: Yes. And you saw it on TikTok. They're adding it up.
ANDERSON: And a lot of what you saw on TikTok, those are folks who, like, live in a state like Virginia, for instance, where you have to pay a tax every year on the value of your car. But just adding in a federal component, I imagine that might not be received (ph) well.
CORNISH: Yes, because it's another annual fee.
CHALIAN: Just the politics, as you know, because of the Republican commitment to not raise taxes, right, as a - as a fundamental core, I mean, fees have always been something that tripped up Republicans, right, because it - a lot of Americans see it as a tax, right? And Mitt Romney ran into this in all the fees in Massachusetts when he was running for office, that it goes against the grain of no tax cuts.
CORNISH: Yes.
CHALIAN: And, Charlie, my question is, is part of the issue here because the gas tax has not been raised since 1993.
DENT: Correct. But - but what begs the question, though, is, we're quibbling over a fee for cars when there's a massive tax increase called tariffs. I mean you - that's what - the tariffs are going to make this issue harder for Republicans. I mean this is a fee that people are going to see.
CORNISH: You think you're going to be able to sell that taxes create revenue, that tariffs are actually a revenue generator?
DENT: But the - but I think - well, tariffs are a massive tax increase on consumers. I mean that's going to be much - a bigger hit to people than whether or not were going to charge $20 or $200 for the electric vehicle.
CORNISH: OK. We're going to hear more about this in the coming days. But I love our energy.
I also want to talk about what else were keeping an eye on this week.
Kristen, to you. What are you keeping an eye on?
ANDERSON: I am keeping an eye on the situation between India and Pakistan. We started this year knowing that there's conflict in the Middle East, knowing that there's conflict in Ukraine, being concerned about what might China do regarding Taiwan. But I don't know that India and Pakistan was on anybody's the world is scary bingo card.
CORNISH: Yes, for potential tariffs (ph). ANDERSON: But - but after the terrible terrorist attack in Kashmir last week, keep an eye on this. The Pakistani government has said they expect some kind of military action from India. We'll see.
CORNISH: OK.
Charlie.
DENT: I'm expecting the Philadelphia Phillies to get out of the slump that they've been in. They won last night against the Nats. And the other thing I'm watching is the reconciliation process in the House. It is getting warmed up. The rubber is meeting the road.
CORNISH: Those are two wildly different things, Charlie.
DENT: Yes. They are two different.
CORNISH: Reconciliation bill.
OK. Yes, and the boss, to you.
CHALIAN: You already touched on it earlier in the program, but 8:30 today, that GDP number comes out. So, not only am I watching what that number is, but there's going to be fallout in the hours ahead and days ahead economically, which again we know, issue number one for voters.
CORNISH: But talk about what you mean by fallout. Like for the average person, we're not like, GDP, thank goodness. It's like, what is it that makes it a ripple effect?
CHALIAN: Yes, no, but - that number comes out. And if it shows that the economy is growing at such a small rate or perhaps shrinking, that's going to have ramifications on markets. It's going to have ramifications on main street. And it's going to have ramifications for Donald Trump's standing with the American public.
CORNISH: I think maybe in part because there's starting to be this element of, like, I don't know, we don't believe you.
[07:00:00]
Like the market is like, we kind of don't believe you. We heard from Cardiff that with the risk assessments they're withdrawing guidance. They're not, I don't know, buying the message.
ANDERSON: Well, and for political purposes, the actual economic data in some ways is secondary to the public opinion data. I can say that as a pollster.
CORNISH: Yes.
ANDERSON: But, I mean, this was something that the Biden administration complained about all the time.
CORNISH: Exactly.
ANDERSON: They said, on paper, our economy is good but voters aren't feeling it.
CORNISH: And look what happened to them.
OK. Group chat, thank you so much, you guys. We covered a lot of ground today.
I want to thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. And CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.
