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CNN This Morning

Mychael Schnell is Interviewed about the House GOP Divided; Father Edward Beck is Interviewed about Voting for a New Pope; Pakistan Shoots down Drones; Amb. Wolfgang Ischinger is Interviewed about Vance's Russia Comment; "Les Mis" Cast Members Boycott Trump Attendance. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:32:56]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": One surprise contender has emerged, Cardinal Joseph Tobin, who is the archbishop of Newark. We're getting the Jersey pope, people.

OK. Here we -- oh, here we go. Oh, here we go. OK, bada bing, bada bless you, OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Not so fast because black smoke billowed from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel this morning, meaning there is no new pope just yet.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.

Since the cardinals could not come to an agreement this morning, they could still vote up to two more times today at the Vatican. That means we are still all on smoke watch, because once we see white smoke, that signals the election of a new pope.

President Donald Trump confirming a major announcement on trade. Moments ago he confirmed the deal is with the United Kingdom. An Oval Office announcement about it is happening later this morning.

And China's President Xi Jinping and Russia's President Vladimir Putin meeting in Moscow. President Xi is there for a four-day visit, will attend Russia's Victory Day Parade on Friday as Putin's guest of honor.

And there's some growing tension among House Republicans over that, quote, "big, beautiful bill" President Trump keeps talking about. The sticking point, Medicaid. And some GOP lawmakers are starting to push back, saying the bill just takes too big a swing with the cuts.

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REP. DAN NEWHOUSE (R-WA): I guess if there is one, I want to make sure that everybody that needs these services, that they're available to them.

REP. ANDREW GARBARINO (R-NY): I don't want to be mean. I -- and I think anytime it looks like we're actually hurting people, that's going to piss off the American population. And if you piss them off, they're probably not going to vote for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, that's not stopping House leadership from pushing forward.

To talk more -- oh, hold on one second. That's not stopping them from pushing forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We can pass that by Memorial Day. That was our original timeframe. And some of -- some of the people in this room balked and thought that would be impossible. But stop doubting us. We're going to get this job done, OK?

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[06:35:03]

CORNISH: I'm joined now by Mychael Schnell, a congressional reporter at "The Hill."

We just heard Speaker Johnson saying, like, look, nothing's going to get me down. What are the sticking points? Is it really just Medicaid, or are there other controversial parts of the bill that we don't know about?

MYCHAEL SCHNELL, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, "THE HILL": Medicaid is certainly one of the biggest sticking points, if not the largest sticking points. And it's because you have this push and pull between hardline conservatives, deficit hawks in the conference, and then some moderate Republicans. So, to sum it up --

CORNISH: Who we just heard, who said this will hurt people.

SCHNELL: That's right.

CORNISH: Yes.

SCHNELL: So, the deficit hawks want this to reduce the deficit. They want to cut spending. And a large part of that they're eyeing is from changes to Medicaid. But a lot of moderates are saying, well, hold your horses, pump the brakes, I don't want to do anything that's going to hurt Americans in my district on Medicaid. So, that's one of the biggest pain points right now.

The other thing has revolved around what the state and local tax deduction cap, which essentially it's a -- it's a -- something for high tax -- it's a concern for high -- for moderate Republicans in high tax blue states who essentially -- the state and local tax deduction is capped at a certain number. That hurts their constituents. So, these Republicans in places like New Jersey --

CORNISH: Yes. It's in the weeds of tax policy.

SCHNELL: Right.

CORNISH: Anytime you see the word SALT, that's what we're talking about.

SCHNELL: Right. Exactly.

CORNISH: Yes.

SCHNELL: So, folks -- Republicans in New Jersey, New York, California, that's a big point for them as well.

CORNISH: How soon does Johnson want to get this done, and how realistic is that?

SCHNELL: So, he wants to get it done by Memorial Day out of the -- move this bill out of the House by Memorial Day, with the goal of getting it to President Trump's desk by July 4th. A lot of folks, including Republicans, are saying that's a very ambitious timeline, which, as days go by --

CORNISH: That's a very general description, an ambitious time --

SCHNELL: It feels more unrealistic.

CORNISH: I feel like that translates as, like, we don't think that's going to happen.

SCHNELL: As the days pass, it's becoming more and more unrealistic --

CORNISH: Yes.

SCHNELL: Because of those concerns and disagreements over Medicaid and SALT are no closer to finding a resolution. And then you actually have to get this through the House and then the Senate as well.

The true deadline is really the end of December, because a lot of these tax cuts that Republicans are trying to extend don't expire until the end of the year. So, Johnson may be trying to get it done right now, this month. But realistically, he has a lot of wiggle room before it actually comes to crunch time.

CORNISH: Now, in all the rush, we're just calling it the big, beautiful bill. We're not just being vague. Is it clear what is in this bill? SCHNELL: Yes and no. So, some parts, the more noncontroversial parts

of this bill have been released and have been looked at by committees, but the real heft of it, the real, you know, key controversial, more controversial parts, like the tax code, like the potential Medicaid cuts, those actually haven't been released yet because lawmakers are still haggling over them. Again, it's this debate between the deficit hawks and the moderates. So, we're still trying to figure out what exactly is in this bill. The general confines, though, are that those -- those tax cuts, in addition to immigration policy, energy policy, spending cuts and things like that.

CORNISH: Yes. OK. Well, we're going to be keeping an eye on it as the details come out.

Mychael, so much appreciate -- appreciate you for being here.

SCHNELL: Thanks.

CORNISH: All right, we're going to turn back to the Vatican, of course, where day two of the conclave is underway. Less than an hour ago there was black smoke billowing from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, signaling that no pope was selected this morning. Now, the cardinals are on a lunch break and could vote two more times today to try and come to a consensus.

So, who could it be? We're going to bring in Father Edward Beck, CNN religion contributor.

Father Beck, thank you for being here this morning.

The late Pope Francis, obviously, elevated so many of the cardinals voting in this election. I think I heard upwards of 108 out of the 133. So, what does that -- how does that change the calculus of who might be chosen?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, they don't really know each other. They haven't met. There are so many different language groups. So, a lot of the meetings beforehand, called general congregations, were an opportunity for them to wear name tags and at least learn each other's name and hear about them speak about some of their positions.

And the fact that it's so culturally diverse, and from many different countries, some countries had never had a cardinal before. It really changes the whole complexion of this conclave. It's the largest conclave ever with 133 voters. And so that's why it is taking a little bit of time.

We saw black smoke. We don't know if we'll see white smoke this afternoon. Possibly, but maybe not. And I think just the fact that they have to come together on so many different issues, that -- and the -- the concerns in different parts of the world are different, say, from the United States. And so, what's going to be the priority? These are the kinds of things that need to get discussed with them.

CORNISH: We've heard the famous quote, he who enters the conclave as pope leaves a cardinal, because, frankly, frontrunners going in don't stay that way. But when you talk about sort of the values, who they might be looking at, it's a head of state. Do they care about this person's diplomatic skills?

[06:40:02]

Is it a pastoral concern? What are the characteristics that are kind of in the chatter?

BECK: Well, I think they do want someone who is pastoral. I mean, Pope Francis made a really big deal that the pope needs to be a shepherd, a shepherd of his people, and needs to be pastoral. And so, I think you want someone who really has the care of people at his heart. Pope Francis' call was for mercy and for inclusion.

Now, again, there's been some debate about that, about the amount of inclusion. And so, there are certain candidates who wouldn't be so open to that kind of inclusion, like blessing same sex couples, or talking about married priests or women deacons, conversations that happen in the conclave. So, those kind of more hot button issues are a little bit more contentious, but very clear about ministering to the poor, being compassionate, being pastoral. Those are kind of concerns that all of the cardinals, I think, would agree on.

CORNISH: He also did all kinds of reforms within the Vatican itself, tried to deal with corruption. Is there an element here of -- of needing an administrator? Are there people who are in the lead for those reasons?

BECK: Yes. Well, the secretary of state, Cardinal Parolin, is known to be a very good administrator. He did handle all of that under Francis, and he did it very well. So, he went into this conclave as a leading contender. He still may be. I mean, Cardinal Parolin is -- has been secretary of state. He's enabled Francis' vision. He did speak out against same sex marriage. He called it a defeat for humanity. There was some controversy about his China deal as well, enabling bishops to be chosen by the Chinese government, except not chosen strictly by the Vatican. So, there was some concern about that. So, he has pluses and minuses, but many pluses being a very good administrator.

CORNISH: Father Edward Beck, thank you for this insight. Father Beck is CNN's religion contributor.

BECK: Thank you.

CORNISH: After the break on CNN THIS MORNING, pro-Palestinian protesters try to take over a library at Columbia University. That led to a confrontation with police and dozens of arrests.

Plus, is this the end of NATO as we know it? A former top diplomat's warning. That's coming up.

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[06:46:50] CORNISH: Overnight, Pakistan claims it's downed 25 Indian drones, calling it a new and serious provocation in the escalating tensions between the nuclear armed nations. A Pakistani military official says 31 civilians have been killed in strikes launched by India, and Pakistan's prime minister says they will avenge those deaths.

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SHEHBAZ SHARIF, PAKISTAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Perhaps they thought that we would retreat, but they forgot that, by the grace of Allah almighty, we are a nation of brave people.

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CORNISH: A senior defense official in India says at least 12 people have been killed in Pakistani shelling in Indian-administered Kashmir. When this latest escalation began, India said its strikes would be targeting terrorist infrastructure.

CNN's Nic Robertson has the latest from Islamabad.

Nic, just to begin, where things stand now.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, a new serious provocation, as you quoted the army spokesman saying, this is a new environment that the conflict -- that the -- the strikes that happened yesterday are rolling over into an ongoing event today, the drone attacks. These are stealth -- stealth -- or rather drones that are carrying -- loitering drones that carry a heavy explosive payload. Twenty-five of them have been neutralized the Pakistani military say.

But the places that they're targeting are all across the country. The massive port city of Karachi in the south. A civilian was killed in Sind province in the deep south. They were in a rural area. That person was killed there. Lahore, a city of 13 million people, just 13 miles from the border with India, was also targeted by a number of these drone strikes for military personnel injured there. And ten miles from here, just a couple of hours ago in Rawalpindi, the headquarters of both the army and the intelligence services here in Pakistan, that was hit by a -- by one of these munitions. And the video in the aftermath there, right outside the massive cricket stadium where there were street vendors selling food, you can see the damage there. So, these are coming down in civilian areas in the country. And the -- the population very worried right now.

Now, India has said that these drone attacks are targeting Pakistan's air defenses. And they are saying that this is in retaliation for continued cross-border strikes by Pakistan. We understand to be the line of control. That -- that's the border between Pakistan administered Kashmir, Indian administered Kashmir, and India. Now saying that the death toll from those cross-border incidents stands at 16 people killed there. The prime minister of India has said that the country should be on high alert.

This does feel, with these ongoing drone strikes today rolling on from the attacks yesterday and the high incidence of -- at the border of -- of cross-border fire, that this is rolling into an ongoing situation with that potential for very serious escalation.

[06:50:05]

And, of course, Pakistan has vowed a major response to -- to India's initial attack. And we haven't seen that yet.

CORNISH: That's CNN's Nic Robertson in Islamabad. Thank you.

So, a three-day ceasefire in Ukraine that Russian President Vladimir Putin announced last month now in effect. But according to Ukraine's air force, he's already broken it. Overnight, Russia launched guided bombs over northeastern Ukraine. Vice President J.D. Vance signaling the administration's frustration with the Kremlin during a meeting on Wednesday with the Munich Security Conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I wouldn't say that the Russians are uninterested in bringing this thing to a resolution. What I would say is, right now, the Russians are asking for a certain set of requirements, a certain set of concessions, in order to end the conflict. We think they're asking for too much.

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CORNISH: The vice president went on to say that the U.S. would like to see Russia and Ukraine speak to each other directly.

I'm bringing in Wolfgang Ischinger. He's the former German ambassador to the U.S. He's also president of the Munich Security Conference Foundation Council.

And you're here in part because you also did that interview. You spoke to the vice president.

Welcome to CNN THIS MORNING.

AMB. WOLFGANG ISCHINGER, PRESIDENT, MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE FOUNDATION COUNCIL: Great to be here.

CORNISH: So, the last time the vice president spoke before Munich Security folks, he -- his comments were so fiery, so critical of Europe and how it's conducting business in its nations. I think you guys had them printed up in a book on the -- to -- to share and debate. What was his tone this time and did it calm tensions?

ISCHINGER: It was a very different tone. It was a very different atmosphere in Munich. He launched a discussion about how we, according to his view, how we apparently interpret fundamental values, freedom of speech differently across the Atlantic.

CORNISH: Yes.

ISCHINGER: Yesterday, he accepted our proposal that we should discuss what the Munich Security Conference is really about, first and foremost, namely current issues of international concern, foreign policy, security, defense. And we had a very cooperative atmosphere.

I'm -- I'm very happy to say, this was a good meeting. Hopefully that's also the view from the White House, but it is -- was certainly the view of our audience.

CORNISH: Yes. So at least the tone was much more of an opening.

ISCHINGER: Absolutely.

CORNISH: Because so far you've seen in this kind of America first foreign policy, this effort to say, we're going to talk to Russia. We don't need Europe here. We're going to talk to so and so. We don't need -- we're going to do it ourselves.

And now you see with this ceasefire kind of a shift in language in how they're talking about Russia, as Russia, of course, has proven to be a reluctant partner, needless to say, in the peace process. Is this an opening for Europe to come back into the conversation? Do you think that the Trump administration has learned that it can't go it alone?

ISCHINGER: Well, first of all, let me say that we should be -- we Europeans should be thankful to the Trump administration for opening, for starting this effort at negotiations. Yes, that effort has not yet led to any serious ceasefire or a peace deal, but it's a start.

What do we hope to achieve? And you mentioned it. I think it's going to be necessary to take the next steps for the United States, to take these next steps, together with our allies. And the allies in this particular case, Ukraine, it's not -- not just us.

CORNISH: Right.

ISCHINGER: The EU, European, NATO partners. It's also Turkey. I cannot imagine a peace arrangement concerning Ukraine without the active participation of Turkey. They control the access to the Black Sea. They are a major strategic factor in this equation.

CORNISH: But you've also heard the U.K., France saying we should lead a peacekeeping mission. Maybe we should be the ones to do that. And I think you were among those saying, not without the U.S. It doesn't work without the U.S.

ISCHINGER: Absolutely. Because if we want to keep NATO together, I think -- I think doing something as Europeans in Ukraine against a major nuclear power like the United -- like the Russian Federation would carry huge risks of driving NATO apart. So, I think the original idea, which I learned 30 years ago as a practicing diplomat, was, let's go in together, let's go out together, but let's stay together. And I think that's good.

I heard yesterday a willingness by -- by the White House to work with Europe again, hopefully more than in the recent past. And then I think we can -- we -- we -- we can achieve something.

May I add just one point?

[06:55:01]

I believe, and many of my friends in Europe believe, that Russia has not abandoned their original strategic goal, namely to eliminate Ukraine as a sovereign, separate nation. We should always be aware that that's -- that remains the Russian ambition. And I would --

CORNISH: Do you believe that the White House understands that or is conducting the peace process with that in mind?

ISCHINGER: I think they know that, but -- but what this means is, of course, that it's not good enough to have a ceasefire that lasts for six months or nine months. We need something that lasts. And -- and my -- my understanding is, if we want to have a ceasefire or a peace deal that lasts, it will require the -- the permanent, the long term engagement of the United States, along with her European allies, in and around Ukraine, otherwise this will -- will -- the risk of this breaking apart again, of the war getting started again, will be too high.

CORNISH: One more thing. Can you have all of that cooperation if you have the White House talking about annexing Greenland from Denmark, right? We -- it feels like this is kind of undermining the cooperative effort you're going for.

ISCHINGER: Well, I can tell you one thing, in the margins of the Munich Conference in February, I was sitting next to -- a dinner next to a long-term advisor to President Trump. And the advice I was given, I'm happy to share. She said to me, you Europeans make a mistake. You don't take our president seriously, but you take him verbatim. You -- you -- you interpret each and every word of his. You should do the exact opposite. You should take him really seriously but -- but -- but understand that the language he uses is sometimes not the language you guys are used to in Europe. I think that's good advice. So, I -- I'm not panicking about Greenland and Panama, et cetera.

CORNISH: OK. All right, Ambassador, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate your time.

OK, it is about 56 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

So, right now there were some pro-Palestinian protests at Columbia University. Dozens of people were arrested there. And the school says that they called the police when the protesters tried to force their way into the campus library. It's unclear what charges they may face. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the Trump administration is now reviewing their visa statuses.

And the U.S. now has more than 1,000 confirmed measles cases this year. It's the second year that cases have been this high since the disease was declared eliminated in the U.S. about 25 years ago. Most of the cases are centered around west Texas. That outbreak has expanded to New Mexico, Oklahoma and possibly Kansas.

And today, the man accused of driving his car through Jennifer Aniston's gate will be in court. He's facing both stalking and vandalism charges. Earlier this week, police say he rammed his car into the gate, but a security guard caught him and held him until police arrived. Aniston was home at the time.

And several cast members in a Kennedy Center performance of "Les Mis" plan to boycott the show on the night that President Trump will be there, according to sources. He's now the chairman of the Kennedy Center and had appointed new trustees while ousting some of the previous ones. And this boycott highlights basically that friction between the administration and prominent art institutions.

The group chat is back.

"Les Mis" or bust? I know that you have some connections to the Kennedy Center.

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: Yes.

CORNISH: It feels like weirdly rough times there, though I don't know why.

DAVIS: No, what actually surprises me most about this is their union gave them the option to opt out. And that's just really unheard of in regards -- I mean, a lot of these contracts have been done for years.

CORNISH: Yes.

DAVIS: So, at least a year prior.

CORNISH: I mean there's some happy understudies.

DAVIS: Exactly. I mean, I -- I don't -- the --

CORNISH: I don't know.

DAVIS: Listen, whether you agree or not agree with what he did in regards to firing everybody and things like that, they're trying -- the Kennedy Center did have a financial problem and they're trying to fix it.

CORNISH: Yes.

DAVIS: From what I understand, he's doing a fundraiser after the event.

CORNISH: Well, we'll see if he fixes it because this is his favorite show. This is not necessarily, like, polled in any way.

Can I come to you about this, this fight over the culture, so to speak?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think nobody has done more cuts in the arts than this president and what he's proposing in Congress and all the way around. And I think you --

CORNISH: You mean with like other agencies, humanities and --

ROCHA: Everything that has to do with art and culture in his mind, the way things were is, he wants to see it eliminated. He wants to see it in the fashion of what he believes is art and culture, which just goes in direct contrast with what art is in the minds of the artists.

CORNISH: Interesting.

OK, Phil, last minute to you. I don't know if you wanted to sing, if there was a favorite --

[07:00:03]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, pretty awesome.

CORNISH: Yes. Pitch pipe. Can we get a pitch pipe for Phil?

MATTINGLY: Are any of the leads involved in tariff discussions?

CORNISH: Yes.

MATTINGLY: If not, I don't really have much visibility.

CORNISH: Honestly, at this point, they probably are.

MATTINGLY: I will say, what's fascinating about the financial element of this is, lawmakers on Capitol Hill have been talking about actually boosting funding to the Kennedy Center. It turns out, if you have a direct line to Trump, if he has control over your institution, it may actually benefit you financially. Whether that benefits you artistically, I -- I don't --

CORNISH: Is a different question.

ROCHA: Monster truck shows, they're coming. You wait. Monster truck shows.

CORNISH: OK.

MATTINGLY: I'm in.

CORNISH: Thanks to the group chat. Thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish. And CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

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