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Justice Dept. Asks Fed Judge: Unseal Epstein Grand Jury Testimony; Trump Sues Wall Street Journal For $20B Over Epstein Report; Heavy Rain Threatens Flash Flooding For Millions Across Midwest; Some High-Profile Dem Leaders Turn To Podcast To Reach To Voters; Former DNC Chair Harrison Speaks To Gov. Walz, Hunter Biden; Gov. Beshear: Democrats Have To Work To Regain Voters' Confidence; Attorney General Pam Bondi Visits Alcatraz Island; Trump Floats Possibly Reopening Alcatraz As A Prison. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 19, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:49]

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome to CNN THIS morning. It is Saturday, July 19th. I'm Danny Freeman in for Victor Blackwell. Here's what we're going on for you today.

President Trump makes good on his threat to sue the Wall Street Journal over a story involving him and Jeffrey Epstein. Could this latest bombshell actually unite the MAGA base behind Trump after days of criticism? Plus an unimaginable loss on the day of her daughter's funeral, the mother of a camper who died at Camp mystic speaks to CNN about her loss and her own time at Camp Mystic. Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alcatraz is a spectacular location and it's a crazy place for a prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: The Trump is considering plans to reopen Alcatraz, the notorious prison in the middle of the San Francisco Bay. Is it a realistic option or just for show? We'll discuss.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And we're still looking at some flash flood warnings this morning across Iowa. But that line of storms is going to spread into other portions of the Midwest. We'll take a look at the timing coming up.

FREEMAN: We begin this morning with a one 2 punch from the Trump administration as the Epstein case fallout continues. The Department of Justice moved to release grand jury testimony in the case, justifying it as a matter of public interest. Almost simultaneously, President Donald Trump filed a libel lawsuit against the publisher of the Wall Street Journal and journalists who published a new story about his connections to the disgraced financier.

All of this centered on a letter President Trump allegedly wrote to Epstein for his birthday in 2003. Now, the wall Street Journal claims that letter bore the president's name and the outline of a naked woman. The president denies he wrote it. And House Speaker Mike Johnson, for now, is backing him up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE JOHNSON, (R) HOUSE SPEAKER: The president and I talked about that ridiculous allegation this morning. He said it's patently absurd. He's never drawn such a picture. He's never thought of drawing such a picture. And he said, did you see the language of this bogus supposed communication or card or something I supposedly sent to Epstein?

He said, I don't talk like that. I don't think like that. They're literally making things up. He's so frustrated by it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: However, Democratic lawmakers, they're not convinced they're pushing for more information to be released.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. MELANIE STANSBURY, (D-NM): You guys are so weak that you. Won't even vote to release the files.

REP. RO KHANRA, (D-CA): Mr. Speaker, the American people, Republicans, Independents, Democrats, want the Epstein files release.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: CNN's Evan Paris takes us inside the case and the lawsuit. Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Danny, the Justice Department is asking a federal judge to make public years old grand jury testimony in the criminal case against Jeffrey Epstein, attempting to end weeks of political turmoil that the Trump administration really has brought on itself. The filing was signed by Attorney General Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general. And it relates only to a fraction of the volumes of evidence that the Justice Department has gathered in the 2019 sex trafficking case against Epstein.

The filing says, in part, "Given this long standing and legitimate interest, the government now moves to unseal grand jury transcripts associated with Epstein." It notes that the department will file a similar motion to release information from the case against Epstein's associate Ghislaine Maxwell.

The filing came hours before President Trump filed a lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal and its owner, Rupert Murdoch, over a news story that said a lewd letter signed by Trump was included in a book of birthday greetings for Epstein. Trump denies that he wrote such a letter. The lawsuit is filed in Miami.

The decision on whether to release Epstein's grand jury information now lies with a judge in Manhattan who oversaw the case before his suicide in 2019. Before making a ruling on this, the judge is likely to consult with the victims and any uncharged people discussed in the testimony, since that information is protected by federal law. That could take several months, certainly not as fast as President Trump wants this Epstein matter to go away. Danny?

[08:05:05]

FREEMAN: Evan Perez, thank you very much. And this is not the first time Trump has gone after media outlets for their reporting on him. But this is the first time he has filed a libel lawsuit while in office, making him the first sitting president to sue a reporter or media outlet for allegedly defaming him. CNN's Tom Foreman has more on this latest debacle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): "I told Rupert Murdoch that he shouldn't print this fake story, but he did, and now I'm going to sue his ass off." President Trump is laying into the Wall Street Journal and its owner over the Epstein story just weeks after ripping the paper's coverage in general.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Wall Street Journal has truly gone to hell.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Throughout his second run and return to the White House, Trump has said plenty about the media.

TRUMP: I watch these criminals back there. The press, the news is really fake, real scum. And it has to stop. It has to be illegal.

FOREMAN (voiceover): And he's taken action. Trump sued ABC News, saying he was def in an interview about a past sexual abuse case. The network settled by promising $15 million to Trump's presidential foundation. But his attacks have not stopped.

TRUMP: ABC is the worst newscast of any newscast by far.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Trump filed a suit against CBS's 60 Minutes, saying it unfairly edited an interview with his Democratic challenger, Kamala Harris.

TRUMP: She gave answer that was so bad that they changed it.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Many media and legal analysts said his claim was unfounded. But just weeks ago, CBS parent company Paramount settled too, coughing up 16 million. Trump filed a lawsuit against the Des Moines Register over an election poll that showed him doing poorly in a state he eventually won.

TRUMP: And in my opinion, it was fraud and it was election interference.

FOREMAN (voiceover): The paper disputed the claim. The matter is still in court. And there is more. SESAME STREET: I'm Donald Grupp and I have more press than all of you.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Trump, who was parodied long ago on Sesame Street, has torn funding away from public television, radio and Voice of America. Press rooms at the White House and Pentagon have been rearranged, often to the advantage of pro Trump outlets. He's battled the Associated Press over its widely respected style book, still referring to the Gulf of Mexico.

TRUMP: It's called the Gulf of America now.

FOREMAN (voiceover): And he's even savaged another property of media mogul Rupert Murdoch for recent polls showing public faith in Trump falling posting. It's why MAGA hates Fox News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: Few of these cases have produced anything like a substantial apology for any behavior, and many of the companies seem to be settling it just so they don't go into long drawn out legal proceedings. Nonetheless, this has proven to be a winning political strategy for Donald Trump, even if he doesn't necessarily win in court. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

FREEMAN: Tom Foreman, thank you very much. All right, with me now is Jake Traylor, former great campaign reporter, now White House reporter with Politico. Jake, good to see you this morning. Let's talk about all things Epstein right now.

Listen, there's no doubt the Epstein story has driven a wedge between the president and some of his most loyal supporters. But do you think that this request by the DOJ to release some of these grand jury transcripts, do you think that'll be enough to satisfy his base?

JAKE TRAYLOR, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Danny, thanks for having me. And look, that really is the question. Right now, we're seeing Donald Trump make this declaration of having a public subset of these grand jury records stemming from this prosecution of Epstein. It really does fall short of a total release of documents that his supporters have demanded. I think if we just take a quick look back, if we'll remember a few months ago, Pam Bondi, the White House kind of had a similar thing where they released a lot of documents surrounding the Epstein case.

Pretty quickly, a lot of the MAGA influencers that were given these documents that were encouraged to post about this 100 percent transparency of the White House quickly came to realize a lot of the documents in these folders and binders that they were posting TikTok's about and viral videos about were actually documents that were already released to the public. This obviously is a declaration by Trump to attempt to tamper down some of the desire and the lure around these Epstein files. But ultimately, what we know so far about what could potentially be released in the future is that this is only going to be a certain subsect, not an entire look into these Epstein files.

And I think the question you just asked is the question Donald Trump and the White House are really mulling over right now. I mean, we've seen them say all throughout the course of this week, this should not be the focus of the Republican Party. This is a trick by the Democrats. But I mean, at the same time we have people like Charlie Kirk, Megyn Kelly, Speaker Mike Johnson, Laura Trump's daughter in law, people that are very close allies saying there should be more transparency in this case.

[08:10:08]

And I was just talking with a couple of White House officials yesterday who said ultimately there has to be some increased level of transparency here. And we've not really seen something to this effect in Trump 2.0 yet where the MAGA base is really rallying what feels like around something that Trump doesn't want to talk about, saying we need some more answers here and Trump is folding and is saying to is AG Pam Bondi, we need to see more. The question is how much do we actually see? And exactly what you said, is that going to be enough for the MAGA base?

FREEMAN: Well, and here's the interesting element that came at the latter part of this week though, is there was this Wall Street Journal story, right? And Steve Bannon told CNN that the story really was able to put President Trump on offense when it comes to the larger Epstein. So I guess my question for you is his view is that this Wall Street Journal story is uniting some of these fractured parts of the party. But what do you think can unity last if there is not something of substance released by the government?

TRAYLOR: Yes, it's fair question. And it is odd, right, to assume that this, what the White House would call salacious Wall Street Journal article would somehow unite the MAGA base. Like why would what the White House is calling a defamatory story actually be helpful? The reason is because the uniqueness of the situation here is that we are seeing this MAGA rift really be created. What Donald Trump has done for literally a decade now is go after the press and has really been able to unite his MAGA base around the fact that fake news, ABC or CBS or CNN or now the Wall Street Journal, this is something that is familiar territory for Donald Trump in the White House.

I was sitting at the White House yesterday in the office with a couple of White House officials who were really saying exactly what you said about going on offense. Now they said this is what Donald Trump actually does best. And some of those names I mentioned a few moments ago, some of Trump's staunchest allies that were initially critical of the transparency around the Epstein files immediately jumped to his defense on social media saying that this was defamatory, saying the Wall Street Journal had gone too far, calling it fake news.

So for Donald Trump and for the White House, this is familiar territory. I've had multiple people at the White House tell me they are actually thankful for the timing of this Wall Street Journal piece. Because truly, regardless of the legitimacy of it, they're able to do what they do best.

Donald Trump's going to file a $10 billion lawsuit against them. MAGA allies are going to come to the rescue, uniting against this piece. Again, I think what ultimately determines the future here is how much content is released that by this judge in New York. And is it going to be enough to satiate and satisfy some of these MAGA critics who have, you know, decried for more transparency in this case?

FREEMAN: Yes, I think those are all fair questions. But I think that, you know, I mean, the initial DOJ memo that came out on July 7th, right? It's been two weeks since then. And we've still been talking about this. And it does not seem like this story is calming down anytime soon.

Jake Traylor, thank you so much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it. And good to see you.

All right, moving on now, strong storms are pushing through the Midwest this weekend, putting millions at risk of flooding. Some cities are already seeing a lot of rain and more is coming. For more on this, we have CNN meteorologist Alison Chinchar.

I mean, the flood risks have been constant all over the country, and it's continuing today.

CHINCHAR: Yes. And again, we talked about this. It's, you know, the overall amount of rain that is likely to fall today in most places, maybe about 2 inches. It doesn't seem like it's a lot, but you have to remember it's the cumulative effect. So it's going to fall on top of what's already fallen for some of these areas over the last few days and in some cases the last few weeks.

Right now, the heaviest rainfall is over portions of the Midwest, so states like Wisconsin, Iowa and into Illinois. That line is going to continue to spread, taking with it the very heavy rainfall. You've also got some flood watches across portions of the Mid Atlantic in anticipation of more rain that's expected to fall later on today.

All of these areas you see highlighted here have the potential for excessive rainfall from some of these showers and thunderstorms as we go through the rest of the day today. And here you can see more of them firing up this afternoon that will continue into the evening hours, spreading from the Midwest all the way over into the Mid- Atlantic region. And again, it's also going to continue into Sunday. So, it's not like today is going to be the last of it and then we will finally dry out for some of these areas. It's going to be multiple days of heavy rain.

In addition to that, we also have the potential for some severe storms. The main threat here is going to be damaging wind, but we can't rule out the potential for some large hail and even an isolated tornado in some of these spots, especially the yellow shaded areas that you see there. Here's a look at the forecast rainfall.

This is what we're talking about. See those orangish red areas? That's where we could even see higher total. So most areas likely about 2 inches. But some of these spots could pick up 3, 4, even 5 inches of rain before it's all said and done.

FREEMAN: And a lot of that rain has fallen fast, too. I mean, that makes it extra dangerous. I know people pay attention to these forecasts as you're putting out there. Thanks, Allison.

CHINCHAR: Thanks.

[08:15:08]

FREEMAN: All right. Still to come, an eight-year-old girl's death in the deadly Texas flooding is her family's third loss this year. How her mother is coping with that tragedy that's coming up next. Plus, why President Trump is pushing the idea of reestablishing Alcatraz as a prison more than 60 years after it was closed. We'll talk about whether it's even feasible to get it up and running.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:11]

FREEMAN: In headlines this morning, we begin with breaking news out of Los Angeles. More than 20 people are hurt after a vehicle drove into a crowd in LA.

It happened around 2:00 a.m. local time near a popular music venue in East Hollywood. Officials estimate about four to five people are in critical condition and nearly 10 others are seriously hurt. Right now, it's not clear who was behind the wheel or what led up to the incident.

And Pro-Football Hall of Famer and podcast star Shannon Sharpe has settled a sexual assault and battery lawsuit. That's according to the accuser's attorney. The anonymous woman claimed Sharpe violently sexually assaulted her and raped her.

In a video in April, Sharpe called the lawsuit a shakedown and denied the allegations. Terms of the settlement were not disclosed. But the woman, who was in a relationship with Sharpe, had been seeking more than $50 million.

South Korea's jailed ex-president Yoon Suk Yeol has been indicted on new charges tied to his short-lived declaration of martial law last year. Those new charges include obstruction of the exercise of others rights by abuse of authority, ordering the deletion of records and blocking the execution of arrest warrants. The impeached former leader is already on trial for charges of insurrection, which is punishable by death or life imprisonment. He is denied all wrongdoing.

Mourners gathered yesterday for the funeral of one of the Camp mystic campers who died in the Central Texas floods. The devastating floods have killed at least 135 people.

For the mother of 8-year-old, Blakely McCrory, Blakely's death was the third death in her family just this year. CNN's Pamela Brown spoke to Lindsey McLeod McCrory on the Situation Room about her loss and about a necklace she now wears that helps her cope with her grief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDSEY MCLEOD MCCRORY, MOTHER OF BLAKELY MCCRORY: Unfortunately, I did have some other losses in my family. We lost my husband in March and then my brother in June. So I think that prepared me for Blakely's loss. I'm coping very well. I have amazing love and support from people I know from people I don't know.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Your dear daughter, as I was reading, you believe is in heaven with her father right now?

MCCRORY: Absolutely. My faith is so strong.

BROWN: And you're actually wearing a Camp mystic necklace right now that you gave Blakely. Tell us more about that.

MCCRORY: Yes. So I gave this necklace to my daughter right before camp and I advised her that if she didn't want to lose it because she's 8 years old and of course they lose jewelry, I told her to wear it, you know, during the whole time at camp.

So she wore it when they found her and that was one of the ways they were able to identify her. And I just want to thank the Texas Ranger that was so lovely and gracious that helped me and just was so professional.

My friends, my good friends from high school had it extended so that I could wear it so I would have a touchstone close to my heart.

BROWN: As we wrap this up, is there anything else you want the world to know about your sweet Blakely before you say your final goodbyes later today?

MCCRORY: She had the best time at camp. She went out on a happy notes. She probably looked at that flooding, you know, going out in the night, you know, as an adventure because you're not supposed to do that as a kid. And the counselor said that Blakely was encouraging her cabin mates to not be afraid.

She was always a leader encouraging others. So in my heart, I know it happened fast and I'm just so grateful. The life that she lived was so happy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: May she rest in peace. Moving on, a new CNN poll finds that Democrats are far more motivated than Republic for next year's midterms. But will the party be able to capitalize on that energy? We'll discuss with the former chairman of the DNC after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:50]

FREEMAN: A new CNN poll on how voters are feeling about politics in the 2026 congressional elections resulted in mixed results for the Democratic Party. Democrats are more energized than Republicans. Ahead of the midterms, 50 percent of Republican and Republican leaning registered voters are extremely motivated to vote, while 72 percent of Democratic and Democratic leaning registered voters say the same. The DNC's problem, though, is that voters are much less enthusiastic

about the party. Only 28 percent of Americans polled have a favorable view of the Democratic Party. That's the lowest number for Democrats in the history of CNN's polls going back to 1992.

So since last November's elections, the Democrats have been struggling to figure out how to regroup and regain political power. Some party leaders are now turning to social media to reach out to voters. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAIME HARRISON, HOST, "AT OUR TABLE WITH JAIME HARRISON": Here are the ground rules. This is family talk, straight talk with leaders, activists and friends from across the country. You know, my grandfather used to tell me when I got back from college, I don't want to hear all that fancy talk, speak it plain.

What that means is I'm going to push our guests, but they're going to push me. Let's get to the heart of the issues at our table. We can discuss ideas candidly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: And the man right there, former DNC Chairman Jamie Harrison, joins us now. His new podcast "At Our Table" debuted this week.

Former chair, thank you so much for being with us this morning. Let's start at the high level, what do you hope to achieve with this new podcast?

HARRISON: Well, really what I hope is that we can get to frank conversations, real talk, no talking points, and just to be our authentic selves. And I think that's what the American people want right now. They want -- you know, they want their political leaders to just be real, to just address the issues that they're dealing with on a day to day basis and to hear from them, to hear their frustrations, to hear the things that they are excited about, the things that they're working on. But to do it in such a way that it's not just so poll tested, that is not just so, you know, something that you pull off of a shelf, but it is really rooted in the frustrations, the joys, the pains that the American people are going through.

FREEMAN: Do you --

HARRISON: Now I think if we do that, Democrats, I think we'll be in a much better situation.

FREEMAN: Do you think of this podcast as being the Joe Rogan, say, of the left?

HARRISON: No, you know, I'm a little upset at that, a reporter actually that I chatted with put that in the headline. I never mentioned Joe Rogan's name ever. What this is just going to be Jamie Harrison having really good family talk with some of the leaders that are shaping our policy on the Democratic side. And again, it's allowing our members, it's allowing our leaders, it's allowing our community of activists to talk about the things that they're working on and to do it in real talk that is not so canned, that is not so talking point ish, and to get their perspectives.

You know, one of the biggest frustrations I have about politics is that, you know, you often make people into caricatures, right? They're one and two dimensional folks because either you're defined by your allies or you're defined by your opponents or both. Why don't we just hear from people in their own words? Like instead of, you know, books and reporting with a bunch of unnamed sources, let's hear directly from the person about what they're thinking about and why they're motivated to do what they're doing.

FREEMAN: Now, Jamie, I watched a lot of your interview with Governor Tim Walz, that's the first interview you guys published. A lot of talk about what went wrong in 2024. I've seen part of your upcoming interview with Hunter Biden, who's one of your next guests. Now, I know you have plenty of others lined up, but why these two voices first? Is this podcast going to be looking backwards?

HARRISON: No, it's going to look back, it's going to look forward, it's going to talk about, you know, the things that are really important to people right now. But you know, Tim Walz was here in South Carolina, and I thought it was a wonderful opportunity to just think about the last election, the things that we didn't do right in the last election, things that he was frustrated about, and -- so that we learn lessons from that, so that we do better going forward in the future. And I think that's really, really important.

You know, often as I start to think about 2026, I am also looking back to previous elections. What are some things that we did that worked well? Many times I've said to a number of reporters, I think that 2026 is shaping up to be very similar to 2006. In 2006, I was executive director of the House Democratic Caucus, and many of the things that we saw going on then, Republican overreach legislatively when George Bush was trying to privatize Social Security, we're seeing Trump with massive overreach in terms of gutting Medicaid, you know, cutting food assistance, this massive recruitment effort by Democrats in 2006, you're seeing similar happening right now. But also the anxiety of the American people, the frustration that is building. I think you're seeing that and you saw that just in your poll, that there's a lot of enthusiasm and energy on the Democratic side because people are frustrated with where things are going.

And the only way that they know to address that frustration is to go to the polls.

FREEMAN: Well, to that point, you've had already a lot of presidential, or I should say potential presidential hopefuls come through South Carolina recently, including Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear. I want you to take a listen to what he said at a recent event, and I want to get your reaction afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR, (D) KENTUCKY: The Democratic Party definitely has a job to do to re earn the faith of the American people. We can't be running after every outrage of the day. The most important thing we can do is be laser focused on people's jobs, their next doctor's appointment, the roads and bridges they drive, the school they drop their kids off at, and whether they feel safe in their community. That's the way we earn back the faith of those people who are down on the party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:35:01]

FREEMAN: Do you agree with that that Democrats shouldn't be chasing every outrage?

HARRISON: Well, I agree that Democrats just need to fight back on everything. And you know, what I've heard from so many folks as I've gone across the country these last few months as a post chairman is that people are frustrated because they don't feel as though the Democratic Party is fighting as hard for them as Donald Trump is fighting against them. And that's what they want at this time. They want us to, you know, to take those values that we talk so well about and we're so eloquent about the Democratic values which we believe are American values that we believe in. But what they want to know is that we are going to utilize everything within our toolkit, within our power to fight back, to protect those values, to protect the rights that American citizens have.

And I said --

FREEMAN: Right.

HARRISON: -- I think when we demonstrate that, and I think you see it from Hakeem Jeffries --

FREEMAN: Right.

HARRISON: -- House Dems are unified. They are fighting back. But when we see more and more of that, we will move better and up in the polls.

FREEMAN: Jamie Harrison, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing the news about your new podcast. Really do appreciate it.

HARRISON: Thank you so much.

FREEMAN: Still to come, President Trump's plan to convert Alcatraz back to a maximum security prison could come with a hefty price tag. We'll discuss why that and other reasons may not make this a feasible idea. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41: 05]

FREEMAN: We continue to follow the breaking news out of Los Angeles, 30 people were hurt after a vehicle drove into a crowd in LA. It happened around 2am local time near a popular music venue in East Hollywood. Officials say seven people are in critical condition. Right now it's not clear who was driving the vehicle or what led to the crash.

Attorney General Pam Bondi toured Alcatraz Island this week as the Trump administration considers the possibility of reopening the facility as a prison to potentially hold immigrants awaiting deportation. Take a listen what Border Czar Tom Homan said about the reported $2 billion price tag to reopen Alcatraz as a prison at the White House yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: I think they're looking at it. I don't think any decision been made yet. They've looked at the cost of it, but I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not in a loop on that. But again, we're looking for any available bed space, we can get that meet the detention standards that we're accustomed to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: Joining us now is Michael Esslinger, an Alcatraz historian and expert who has written five books about the former prison, including his latest letters from Alcatraz.

Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. Let's start here, Attorney General Bondi called Alcatraz a quote, "terrific facility" while acknowledging that it needs a lot of work. I understand you've been to the island at least 500 times, how practical is this?

MICHAEL ESSLINGER, ALCATRAZ HISTORIAN: I think that, you know, it would be very complex to try to, you know, reestablish Alcatraz, obviously, as a supermax prison. You have to remember that the building structure itself was initially started construction 116 years ago and it's in serious disrepair. And the complexities around it, you know, from when it was an operating prison, you know, for example, when it closed, you know, they were still dumping raw sewage into the bay. You know, they had to, you know, barge over water staffing, create their own power on the island for a very small prison population. So while, you know, obviously not impossible, I think that you would likely have to tear down which, you know, is a national historic landmark.

You'd actually have to tear down the current structure and probably rebuild.

FREEMAN: Yes, I remember when this plan was first floated, you know, things like plumbing had to be -- would have to be completely redone, as you noted, with the sewers and just so many different logistical things. President Trump has claimed, though, that reopening Alcatraz, quote, "Will serve as a symbol of law, order, and justice." I'm curious your perspective. What would reopening Alcatraz represent in your mind?

ESSLINGER: Well, I think you have to really look back, you know, to the 1930s when Alcatraz first opened as a federal prison. You know, the goal back then was to, you know, take criminals like Al Capone, Machine Gun Kelly, Alvin Karpis, who was America's public enemy number one, and it was to literally take them out of the headlines, house them all under one roof, and basically remove them from society. You know, these -- some of these men were actually seen as folk heroes. I think today, you know, it would be very complex to do something like that.

You know, I spent seven years doing interviews with Whitey Bulger, who had a very nostalgic look, believe it or not, back in his days at Alcatraz, but he commented that it ended up being kind of a training ground for him where, you know, having -- you know, it was sort of a criminal hall of fame, if you will. So he was there with men like, you know, Mickey Cohen, Bumpy Johnson, Frankie Carbo, you know, some of the big gangsters of that era, and sort of observed them and sort of watched them. So I think that, you know -- you know, I have great respect for, you know, the ideals of the president in trying to, you know, combat crime, so to speak.

FREEMAN: Sure.

ESSLINGER: But I think in today's era, there's better places that you could probably look at that would achieve something similar, if you will.

FREEMAN: By the way, you're definitely making me want to read your books, I'll tell you that, by just telling some of these initial stories right here.

[08:45:00]

One last thing, I'm curious, Alcatraz, as you noted, a major historical landmark at this point, and popular tourist destination, too. People come and they can see, you know, and regale on some of these stories. How important is it, in your mind, to keep this as a public accessible historical site?

ESSLINGER: Oh, I think it's so crucial. You know, it's basically a historic site today that you can literally walk through it and see it as it was when it was open. The other part of it is that I think is kind of lost to history to some degree, is that this was opened, you know, as a military fortress basically in the 1950s and '60s -- I'm sorry, the 1850s and '60s era during the Civil War. So below the cell house is the original citadel building that still has all the original graffiti from, you know, basically the Civil War soldiers.

FREEMAN: Wow.

ESSLINGER: And it just has these layers of history throughout the island.

FREEMAN: Wow.

ESSLINGER: And I think that, you know, in reality, the only potential way that you could open the prison --

FREEMAN: Right.

ESSLINGER: -- would be to tear that down. And I think it would be such a great loss --

FREEMAN: Right.

ESSLINGER: -- you know, for our society because there's a lot of lessons learned. There was -- you know, there's still the etch marks from soldiers and --

FREEMAN: Right.

ESSLINGER: -- prisoners that were kept under the -- under the cell house in these Spanish dungeons, so to speak.

FREEMAN: Right.

ESSLINGER: So, you know, it's -- I think it's something that is crucial that we don't let go of.

FREEMAN: Sure.

ESSLINGER: And it's also one of the most visited tourist attractions in San Francisco.

FREEMAN: Well, Michael Esslinger, I super appreciate you bringing that perspective this morning. We got to go, but appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

ESSLINGER: Thank you. Glad to be here.

FREEMAN: And we'll be right back.

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[08:51:00]

FREEMAN: Take a look at some images here out of Los Angeles. This is the scene where 30 people were hurt after a vehicle drove into a crowd in LA. It happened around 2:00 a.m. local time near a popular music venue in East Hollywood. Officials say seven people are in critical condition. We're still monitoring this situation.

All right, it's WNBA All-Star weekend and things are off to an exciting start. Coy, tell us what's been going on. It seems pretty fun.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes, the game is tonight and they are already having a lot of fun. The hometown crowd there in Indianapolis.

FREEMAN: Yes.

WIRE: -- they probably bummed that Caitlin Clark, injured, missed that three point contest. She'll be back. But they did get quite the show. Liberty had doubled the fun in the Skills Challenge. Natasha Cloud hitting some bounce passes through a big old prop.

And then check out this for a distraction, three pointers over like some swinging lightsabers, Cloud captures the 2025 Skills Challenge title, edging out the Storms Erica Wheeler with just 1.1 seconds to spare in the final round.

And then the Liberty's are sharpshooter Sabrina Ionescu, she became just the second player ever to win the WNBA three point contest multiple times. Ionescu with a phenomenal final round scoring 30 points. She hit 11 in a row at one point. Now Ionescu says she's giving away her $62,000 winnings half to Mystics, rookie three point shooter Sonia Citron and other to charity through her SI20 Foundation. That's awesome.

All right, here's your play of the day. Put down your coffee and check this out, an absolute laser from the Braves, Ronald Acuna Jr. facing the Yankees. He throws a runner out at third all the way from right field, ball doesn't even bounce. That's incredible. And he made it look so nonchalant.

This has to go down as one of the best throws we've seen. All-Stars showing that nobody is safe running those bases when he's on the field. Braves win this one seven to three. My goodness. That's crazy.

All right. MLB mascots getting in one of the most viral social media trends right now. The Phillie Phanatics getting caught on the Jumbotron in a Kiss Cam segment. And the Arizona Diamondbacks Baxter the Bobcat reenacting the moment that got CEO of tech company Astronomer placed on leave after a Coldplay concert moment put him and fellow executive in the spotlight. Things seem to get a little uncomfortable for the mascot there. But then just say, you know what, I'm going to own it. I'm going to own the moment.

That goes all in. So unfortunate situation that is just continuing to find new life on the interwebs.

FREEMAN: Meanwhile, I can't even get on. You know, I wave and I can't get on the Jumbotron. Everyone's getting --

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You're doing it wrong.

FREEMAN: Yes, clearly. Have you ever been featured on a Jumbotron?

CHINCHAR: No. No, I have not.

FREEMAN: So we're both doing -- Coy, you've probably been all over it.

WIRE: Well, when we go to a game together, we know how to get on the Jungle Jumbotron now.

FREEMAN: That's right. And we have a plan.

WIRE: Yes, we'll cuddle.

FREEMAN: All right. Thank you guys both so much for being here. Coy Wire, thank you.

WIRE: Got it.

Also, some of music's biggest names show CNN's Bill Weir how star power can help combat the climate crisis in the next "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper." Take a look at a quick preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN ANCHOR: That's cool. That's a little crayfish.

WEIR (voice-over): The tunes we love come from both person and place. And without this place, without the sun and soil and waves and wonder of Oahu's north shore, Jack wouldn't be Jack.

JACK JACKSON (singer): I think growing up here, there's this really slow rhythm that you don't realize you're taking in, which is the sound of waves hitting the shore. And usually that's about 12 seconds, 14 seconds apart.

WEIR (voice-over): But while plenty of places have an ocean rhythm, Jack was also raised on aloha, the humble respect for nature and neighbor passed down from the very first Hawaiians.

(SINGING)

WEIR (voice-over): Right around the time "Flake" started drawing bigger crowds, that Hawaiian sense of responsibility would gnaw at his soul.

[08:55:00]

JOHNSON: Going back to those early shows, when you have these sort of awakenings, you know, it's like everything's great and it's like wow, what a night. And then you walk out on the stage after everybody's gone, and you just see a sea of plastic water bottles and all of a sudden you're at an amphitheater and you look out back and you realize, whoa, there's multiple trucks here. There's multiple buses. This is a footprint, you know, an environmental footprint that's kind of bigger than I realize. All of a sudden it gets here and it's a little wakeup call of OK, how can we do better, what can we do?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: Be sure to tune in an all new episode of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper." One whole hour, one whole story airs tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

All right, thanks so much for joining us this morning, first of all with Victor Blackwell, we'll be back next Saturday, 8:00 a.m. thank you all. Smerconish is up next after a short break.

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