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CNN This Morning
CNN Obtains Never Before Published Trump-Epstein Photos; Fans, Celebs Remember Ozzy Osbourne. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired July 23, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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VENUS WILLIAMS, PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: Sounds like I got to get my benefits on. Started training.
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M.J. LEE, CNN ANCHOR: Williams won seven singles majors during a glittering career. She also won 14 doubles majors alongside her sister Serena.
Thank you so much for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm M.J. Lee in Washington, D.C., and CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Exclusive images into CNN raise new questions about the Trump/Jeffrey Epstein relationship. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The witch hunt that you should be talking about is they caught President Obama.
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HILL: How the president is trying once again to desperately move past it.
The man behind the Idaho college slaying, set to be sentenced today. Will he finally answer the question everyone's been asking: Why?
The threat of mass starvation in Gaza widens as pressure grows on Israel to let -- let aid in. But will it work?
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SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: There's nothing that tells me that he should step down right now.
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HILL: The about-face on Fed Chair Powell that could offer some market stability. A black driver punched, dragged by white deputies at a traffic stop.
Today, we're expected to hear from the man at the center of this viral video.
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OZZY OSBOURNE, ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAMER: Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love you. We love you.
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HILL: And the Prince of Darkness, dead at 76. A look back at the life and legacy of Ozzy Osbourne.
Good morning. Six a.m. here on the East Coast. And there's a live look at the skies around New York City slowly coming to life there.
Thanks so much for joining me. It is Wednesday, July 23. I'm Erica Hill in for Audie Cornish. This is CNN THIS MORNING.
Some newly recovered -- newly rediscovered, I should say, photos and videos are shedding fresh light on the past relationship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.
CNN's KFILE obtained several exclusive images and video that predate any of Epstein's known legal issues. Here you see the two, along with Trump's two young children -- young at the time -- at the opening of the Harley Davidson Cafe. This was in 1993.
Months later, some new photos reveal Epstein walking into the Plaza Hotel to attend Donald Trump's wedding to Marla Maples.
There's also what was found in this review of archival footage from a 1999 Victoria's Secret fashion show, which reveals, as you see, the two men chatting, laughing with one another on the sidelines of that event.
The White House calls the images, quote, "out of context frame grabs." When reached for comment, President Trump responded -- and I'm quoting him here -- "You've got to be kidding me" before calling CNN fake news and then hanging up the phone.
Now, to be clear, allegations that Epstein sexually abused underage girls did not surface until 2005, of course, years after this video and the images we just showed you were captured.
The president is, though, looking to turn everyone's attention to, frankly, it would seem, anything else, training his attention now on his political enemies in the Oval Office when asked about reports of Justice Department officials interviewing Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell.
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TRUMP: I don't know about it, but I think it's something that would be -- sounds appropriate to do. Yes. I didn't know that they were going to do it. I don't really follow that too much. It's -- it's a sort of a witch hunt, just a continuation of the witch hunt. The witch hunt that you should be talking about is they caught President Obama.
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HILL: Joining me now in the group chat, Noel King, co-host of the "Today Explained" podcast; Charlie Dent, former Republican Pennsylvania congressman; and Kristen Soltis Anderson, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist. It's nice to have all of you here this morning.
As we look at where things stand, Charlie, I'm fascinating [SIC] that -- fascinated by the fact that we are still having this conversation today. Right? And now you have the speaker basically saying, we're not going to do anything, I guess in a bid to make it go away, which only prolongs the conversation, at least through September.
CHARLIE DENT, FORMER REPUBLICAN PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSMAN: Well, unfortunately, here for the administration, they've hoisted themselves on their own conspiracy theory petard.
They have done a 180. They've mishandled -- the Justice Department has mishandled this from the get-go. Everybody knows that. They raised the expectations about an Epstein list. Apparently, there isn't one. He did commit suicide.
And -- and -- but, you know, their base wasn't in on the joke. Or at least the -- the MAGA element that is really charged up over this. They weren't in on the joke.
And -- and so that's where we are. And all these things that you're hearing now about Obama and, you know, and the 2016 election are all just big fat distractions to try to get us off the subject.
You know, Jay Powell, talking about that, too. All these things. They're trying to -- just trying to move away from it. But for the moment, they can't get off the dime.
HILL: Distractions that -- that clearly aren't working. You mentioned the base. I do want to bring up, just for -- for a moment, we have a comment. I believe it's from Thomas Massie, talking specifically about losing the base because of this.
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Here's more of what he had to say.
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REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Well, you don't lose your base over one single thing, but he's eroding his base.
More importantly, if we don't take the right side of this issue, it's going to cost us votes in the midterms. Why would they go vote if they gave us the House, the Senate, and the White House, and the transparency and justice they were promised doesn't happen?
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HILL: Kristen, there is -- there is plenty that we're hearing publicly from lawmakers in this moment. How large is that concern, though, among Republicans about the damage that this is doing and prolonging the conversation? And in losing that base?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, what's notable about this is this really is the -- the first, in my view, true test of how rock-solid Trump's base is.
I know from all of my data that he is very well-liked by Republican voters. I know from my data that Republicans are more likely to say they are fans of Trump than they are strong supporters of the GOP.
And Donald Trump has been able to push his party to ideological and policy places they might not have otherwise gone, on the strength of his brand with his base.
That's why somebody like Thomas Massie has actually been a thorn in the administration's side. He's been one of the few that has said, No, I'm not going along with you on these policy things. I'm going to stand firm.
The base has gone with him on other things that maybe ten years ago, Republicans would never have dreamed of supporting.
But on this issue, it's not about policy. It's about a narrative of power and the powerless and who gets protected by institutions. And that's what's causing this to be so problematic for Trump with his base.
HILL: It's also a narrative that has become so broad --
NOEL KING, CO-HOST, "TODAY EXPLAINED" PODCAST: Yes.
HILL: -- and so engaging. It has nothing to do, for a lot of people, with politics at this point. They just can't escape it. And they're talking about it.
KING: That's exactly right. Three weeks ago, this was a conspiracy among the MAGA faithful, right? There was a -- not small, a large group of people who were really into the Epstein files.
I will tell you, my group chats of friends, not mostly MAGA-aligned, it's all we've been talking about for the past week. What is going on with the Epstein files? Everybody is listening to podcasts. Everybody's down rabbit holes on Reddit.
And it's really interesting to watch this conspiracy become kind of bipartisan.
HILL: Yes.
KING: Which is an interesting thing in 2025, right, where Americans don't seem to agree on everything.
Well, at this point, it feels like everybody wants to know what's in the Epstein files. Although to your point, we know that there is no such thing as the Epstein files, but people are going to keep asking questions.
And I think the thing that we're all asking ourselves right now is, at what point does a conspiracy theory burn out?
HILL: Right. And there's also a question of, to your point, there's not a file cabinet, right, that people go to. They're not banker's boxes. Right?
But there is access to those files. And it also raises questions of, OK, so if they went back and looked at the files, why are we all of a sudden not talking about it? And this is where we're at.
We're not done with it, though. The good news: the group chat is sticking around.
Still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, we're also tackling the judges versus the DOJ. The legal feud playing out now in New Jersey over President Trump's former personal attorney.
Plus, today could be the hottest day of the year in the Midwest. And it turns out the corn is not helping matters. A little corn sweat discussion.
Plus, President Trump striking a massive trade deal, which comes as Canada issues a warning to Americans, specifically citing the tariffs.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When there's $0.55 on one item and $0.60 on another and 25 on, you know, a gallon of gas, you know, all those really add up. And that death by a thousand cuts is really going to make a big impact.
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HILL: Twelve minutes past the hour here on your Wednesday morning. Five things to know to get your day going.
A third round of peace talks set to begin today between Russia and Ukraine in Istanbul. This comes after Russia's, of course, attacks in recent weeks really targeting cities in Ukraine.
Last week, President Trump gave Russia, of course, that 50-day window for a ceasefire.
The rescue team who tried to save actor Malcolm-Jamal Warner from drowning were counting the moments that he was caught in that strong current. A volunteer lifeguard pulled Warner from the water. Two doctors, who were also vacationing on that same beach, stepped in to help.
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MIKE GEIST, VICE-PRESIDENT OF CARIBBEAN GUARD LIFEGUARD GROUP: Between the three of them, they were able to provide or perform CPR for more than 30 minutes, probably more like 45 minutes. And unfortunately, it was not successful.
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HILL: Another man is in critical condition after also being pulled in that current along with Warner.
Warner, who of course, is best known for his role as "The Cosby Show's" Theo Huxtable, was 54 years old.
Today, the doctor charged with giving Matthew Perry ketamine in the weeks leading up to his deadly overdose is expected to plead guilty to four counts of distribution of ketamine.
As part of that deal, three other charges will be dropped. He faces up to 40 years behind bars.
And some sweet news for all you Coca-Cola lovers. The soda giant set to release a new version of Coke. No, it's not new Coke. I understand the PTSD from that, but it's new because this one is made from cane sugar.
This, of course, you may recall coming after President Trump said that he convinced the company to replace high fructose corn syrup with sugar. Important to note: Coke has not said that that is why they made the change.
But if it sounds like something sweet to you, it may also sound familiar. It's the reason a lot of people buy Mexican Coke.
Well, today could be one of the hottest days of the year in the Midwest. Cities there and across the South are set to see triple-digit heat.
And in the Midwest specifically, that weather could go from hot to downright miserable, thanks to a little something known as corn sweat. Mm-hmm. Corn sweat. It's not like the meat sweats. It's a little different.
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Apparently, it's a single acre of corn could actually release up to 4,000 gallons of water vapor a day, which in turn makes the humidity rise. Thanks, corn.
Still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, the dire conditions in Gaza only getting worse. The warning now from aid workers, doctors, and journalists. All of them also at risk of starvation, alongside the families whose stories they are covering.
Plus, remembering the Prince of Darkness. Tributes pouring in for rock legend Ozzy Osbourne.
And a little good morning here to Minneapolis, as the sun getting ready to peek through for you. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
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OSBOURNE (singing): Times have changed, and times are strange. Here I come --
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HILL: The tributes pouring in for the late Prince of Darkness, Ozzy Osbourne. The hellraising frontman of Black Sabbath died on Tuesday surrounded by his family. He was 76.
Osbourne was considered the godfather of heavy metal but had often said he preferred the Prince of Darkness title. Just weeks ago, he reunited with his Black Sabbath bandmates in his hometown of Birmingham, England.
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OSBOURNE: Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love you. We love you.
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HILL: Ozzy Osbourne was a trailblazer, as well, in the reality TV world. Back in 2002, "The Osbournes" started airing on MTV, long before it was what now seems normal: for camera crews to follow people around their homes for entertainment.
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OSBOURNE: If you get busted, I'll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bust your ass.
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HILL: The show, of course, was Osbourne's second act, resurrecting a career that had been frequently derailed by alcohol and substance abuse.
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OSBOURNE: I never realized the power of TV. I mean, rock and roll is this big. TV's this big.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Osbourne's death really hitting the entertainment world hard.
Black Sabbath bandmate -- his Black Sabbath bandmate posting, "There won't be another -- ever be another like him."
This from Elton John: "He was a dear friend and a huge trailblazer who secured his place in the pantheon of rock gods. A true legend."
Joining me now is Riki Rachtman, former host of MTV's "Headbangers Ball."
My sister and I may have joined you on a Saturday night or two, watching that.
You first met Ozzy at your Hollywood nightclub, the Cathouse, 35 years ago. I mean, take us back to that moment, what it was like for you, what Ozzy Osbourne was like in that first meeting.
RIKI RACHTMAN, FORMER HOST, MTV'S "HEADBANGERS BALL": Well, the first meeting wasn't anything like the rest of them. It was just kind of that typical Ozzy that you had in the '80s, which was -- this was at a time when he had gone through a sober spell, and at this time he was the furthest thing from being sober.
And he wasn't at the club very long. And this is, I believe, when he just was out of rehab. So, that was a very, very brief moment.
But every moment after that was historic. You know, it was - when I had the club, I met all these rock stars. But I had never known Ozzy, and Ozzy was a rock star, the biggest rock star. And he was -- he was just incredible. I mean, he was just amazing.
He was -- he was -- you know, we always call him the Prince of Darkness, but he was the furthest thing from really being dark. He was, you know, very kind of childlike and goofy and had fun.
But on stage he was phenomenal, and his music was -- I mean, look, we're talking about it here. And that says a lot. I'm really glad that -- that everybody all over the world is honoring Ozzy Osbourne.
HILL: You know, there's so much. There's -- there's the musical part, as we were talking about, and then sort of the second act and a different way, I think, that he was introduced to many people on their reality show, "The Osbournes."
It did show this other side, right? It was not the guy on stage who was known for biting the head off a bat, right? Which he was asked about endlessly.
What was different? Why do you think it was that seeing him in those moments in his home may have changed people's perception of Ozzy Osbourne?
RACHTMAN: Well, that was probably the first time they had ever seen Ozzy Osbourne. I mean, you know, of course, I remember being this kid on the schoolyard singing, you know, "War Pigs," you know, or "Iron Man" or something like that, all the way up until his solo stuff. But for some people, that was his first exposure. And they didn't know
who this Ozzy character was. And he was funny, and he was goofy and uncensored, unfiltered. And, you know, it's a -- it's a weird way for people to get into the music of Ozzy or Black Sabbath.
You know, we were always into the music first. So, there was almost a bitter part that's like, you know, how is our Ozzy Osbourne becoming this big reality star? Because these people aren't even into the music.
But it did expose everybody to who Ozzy Osbourne was, and he was just, you know, it -- you see him on the show. And even before then there was a movie called "The Metal Years," and they showed him making eggs. And he was still that type of person, like he was in the reality show.
But, you know, for the millions and millions of Ozzy Osbourne fans, we don't really think that much about the reality show. We don't think about the -- biting the head off the bat or a dove or any of that stuff.
We think about all the incredible, amazing music that we -- that we had throughout our whole lives.
HILL: We're a little tight on time, but I know, of course, you co- hosted "Charm School" with Sharon Osbourne. Have you been in touch with the family? How are they doing?
RACHTMAN: I haven't been in touch with the family. They -- but they've -- they've got their time. And, you know, real quick, because I know we don't have time.
It was very unexpected, but very expected. We kind of knew this was going to be the end. He went out on top without a doubt. That last show was just incredible.
HILL: Yes.
RACHTMAN: It was just amazing.
HILL: Quite a moment. And just a couple of weeks ago.
Riki, really appreciate you joining us and appreciate your reflections. Thank you.
RACHTMAN: Thank you.
HILL: Still to come here after the break on CNN THIS MORNING, could more have been done before the deadly storm and flash flooding? Today, lawmakers in Texas set to break down the response to those deadly Texas floods.
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Plus, the pressure on Powell. Why one top economist is now saying it would actually be better if the Fed chair quit.
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HILL: Almost half past the hour now.
