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House Oversight Subcommittee Votes to Subpoena DOJ for Epstein Files; Venus Williams Comeback: Oldest to Win Match in 2 Decades. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired July 24, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
M.J. LEE, CNN ANCHOR: Taylor Swift if being honored 13 times over.
[06:00:07]
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TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER (singing): Are you ready for it? I'm sick in the back of a car.
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LEE: Madame Tussaud's is commemorating Swift's record-smashing Eras Tour.
The chain of waxworks museums has immortalized the star in wax. Not once, but 13 times, a nod to Swift's lucky number. Each of the new figures has its own look from the Eras Tour, and each will appear in a different location across Madame Tussaud's global chain.
It's the first time in the museum's history that it has launched so many figures of the same person, all in one go. It took 40 artists 14 months to recreate Taylor in wax.
And thank you so much for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm M.J. Lee in Washington, D.C. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: A show of defiance as Congress pushes for answers on the Epstein files. But with the president's name involved, will the White House cooperate?
CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
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REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): This fight's coming.
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HILL: The transparency battle now heading toward a showdown with the DOJ.
Barack Obama accused of treason. But is that a claim grounded in fact or just more political theater?
Columbia agreeing to a multimillion-dollar settlement with the Trump administration. Is it enough to get that federal funding restored?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You took our children. You are going to suffer, man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: From forgiveness to F-bombs, the emotional statements from the victims' families addressing Bryan Kohberger for the first time.
Deportation ramp-up. Why the White House is giving migrant teens the option to leave voluntarily.
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(CHEERING)
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HILL: She's still got it. The remarkable comeback for tennis legend Venus Williams.
Six a.m. here on the East Coast. Look at that bright, beautiful sky in New York City. Good morning, everyone. It is Thursday, July 24.
I'm Erica Hill, in for Audie Cornish. Thanks for joining me here on CNN THIS MORNING.
CNN is now learning at least one name does appear in the Jeffrey Epstein files. That is Donald Trump. We know this, because the attorney general told the president.
Sources telling CNN Attorney General Pam Bondi briefed the president in May about the DOJ's review of documents related to the case. During that briefing, she revealed the president's name appeared in those files.
Her office also said the files appear to include several unsubstantiated claims that were deemed not credible, including those related to Trump.
Now, the exact context on how the president's name appears in the file remains unclear. The president, it's important to note, has not been accused of any wrongdoing in his interactions with Epstein.
But now, two months after that briefing, the DOJ has declared, of course, the case closed. Listen, though, to how the president responded when he was asked specifically about this just one week ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Epstein of the review of the files, Attorney General Pam Bondi briefed you on that.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: A very quick briefing. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did -- did she tell you -- what did she tell you
about the review? And specifically, did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the file in the files?
TRUMP: No, no. She's -- she's given us just a very quick briefing. And in terms of the credibility of the different things that they've seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Attorney General Bondi and Assistant A.G. Todd Blanche issuing a statement on Wednesday which reads, in part, "Nothing in the files warranted further investigation or prosecution. And we have filed a motion in court to unseal the underlying grand jury transcripts. As part of our routine briefing, we made the president aware of the findings."
Efforts by the White House to get Congress to move on from the subject, hitting yet another stumbling block on Wednesday as Republican-led House Oversight Committee voted to subpoena the Epstein files from the Department of Justice, escalating the division and the tensions, frankly, between House Speaker Mike Johnson and the rank and file in the House.
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MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What do you think of the speaker adjourning the House early to avoid this whole fight over Epstein?
MACE: This fight's coming no matter. I mean, this is here, and I -- I made it part of my life's mission to protect women and kids. And I think that, you know, I'm ready to take this vote. I think we should take this vote and move forward.
RAJU: President wants to move on, though. He says it's time to move on.
REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): I have been very clear on my opinion on this issue for a long time.
REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): I mean, you'd have to be -- have your head in the sand to say that this is going to go away. It's not. The public deserves it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Joining me now in the group chat, Margaret Talev, senior contributor at Axios and director of the Institute for Democracy, Journalism and Citizenship at Syracuse University; Virginia Allen, writer and producer at "The Daily Signal"; and Daniel Koh, former deputy and special assistant to President Biden.
[06:05:04]
Nice to have all of you here in the studio this morning. So, when we look at where things stand, Margaret, some real effort, of
course, by the White House, by the attorney general to move on. That is clearly not happening, especially when you're seeing, even in the face of efforts by Speaker Johnson to move on and send everybody home. Republicans are not playing ball.
MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, this has been one of the rare issues that divides the president's base of support and -- and congressional Republicans.
And you could be forgiven, if you were an American who's, like, on summer break, maybe you took your kids somewhere, and you're sort of like in and out of the news. And it's like, there are no Epstein files. What? That's surprising.
Oh, wait, there are Epstein files, but there's nothing to see here. But it's been unsubstantiated.
But we're going to ask for the disclosure of everything. But we're only going to ask for the disclosure of the pertinent things. And there's nothing pertinent here to see. And the problem is really with President Obama.
Just, like, there's a lot of whiplash going on right now as the White House tries to find its messaging for how to respond to this and for how to, I think, kind of circle the wagons among their support base.
And in Congress, we were -- we were in focus groups this week as -- as we are regularly with swing voters. And this is just a couple of days ago, and I'm, like, literally still going through them.
But the Epstein files is one of these issues that illuminates people, not because they are convinced that they know exactly what happened, but because it seems like there's some kind of cover-up of powerful people. And voters who are angry and are change-seekers don't like that. And that's why the issue is not going away.
HILL: And just to follow up. Sorry, I'm going to bring you in soon. But just to follow up quickly on that, in terms of those focus groups, they don't like the cover-up.
Were you able to address for them the question of whether they feel there is even more of a cover-up now, because there is not a straight answer from the administration?
TALEV: Yes, it certainly seems that way, and I don't -- I don't want to jump to conclusions, and I'm not trying to reach any conclusions about what's in the files that aren't files.
But the point is that, from a messaging perspective, there's enough of the public who are either Republican voters or in that kind of swingable camp, who don't like the idea that there isn't transparency around this issue and that that is what they want more of.
And the president is, I think, sort of trying to message it both ways. He's saying, let, you know, the -- let the judges release everything; but there's nothing for us to release here.
And now they're -- you know, there's backdoor conversations. Like, I just think there's a lot of mixed signals going on here about whether the White House has absolutely nothing to hide or whether they're concerned that misinformation will be misconstrued.
And it's creating some inconsistencies in -- in what their posture is --
HILL: Yes.
TALEV: -- towards disclosure around this issue.
HILL: Right. And in terms of those inconsistencies you had, I believe it was July 15th when the president was asked. Right? You were briefed on this. Was your name in there? So, his name was in there.
Again, really important to point out, there is -- there is nothing that has been revealed that points to any wrongdoing, that there was an issue. His name could be in the files.
The fact, though, that they can't get that right. How much is that of a sign of a larger problem? And perhaps really misreading the room, and the room being the American people, beyond the political sphere?
VIRGINIA ALLEN, WRITER AND PRODUCER, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Sure. No. The room definitely wants transparency. I think the American people have made that really clear. They want to know what exactly is -- you know, does exist.
And it's been fascinating to see, OK, there's maybe not a client list in the way that so many people thought for so long. Now we're learning that that really doesn't exist.
But I think if there was damning information against the president in whatever does exist, whatever papers, that would have been released, certainly, during the four years of the Biden administration.
HILL: So, now you have Todd Blanche apparently is going to go speak with Ghislaine Maxwell. Right? There's been -- there's now, you know, this vote for subpoena for Ghislaine Maxwell.
There are sort of two questions at play here. Both the "what could we get," right, from the deputy A.G. going to interview --speak to Ghislaine Maxwell, who has not been seen as credible, frankly, in the past, from her. And also, why not speak to the victims if it's that important?
DANIEL KOH, FORMER DEPUTY AND SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes, I think that's to be determined. But here's the reality, why you're seeing, so much chaos.
Trump has run the same playbook for every issue for the dawn of time. Right? And that's to distract and deflect and deny. This is the first time where that playbook just doesn't seem to be working. He once said that he could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and
shoot someone and not lose any voters, and his ability to deflect was incredibly effective. The thing is, it's just not working now.
It's like a bird waking up one day and not being able to fly and not knowing what to do. Right? And so, I think the flailing comes from I've used the same strategy my entire life, and all of a sudden it's not working.
But it's also feeding into this narrative. I mean, this is a guy who said that he would drain the swamp, but just this actions that he's taken since this administration started.
You know, he said, there's going to be phenomenal health care. Ten million people are about to get booted off Medicaid.
You know, he said that he -- the miners were the backbone of America. And then he cut a program at HHS that helps miner health.
He said he's going to take care of veterans, and he's proposing 80,000 cuts at the V.A.
[06:10:04]
So, this is a larger trend that I think people are starting to pick up on. It's just feeding into a narrative that he just doesn't know what to do with, because his playbook is not working.
HILL: We'll see what the new messages are today. Group chat, stick around. Obviously, a lot more to discuss in the hour ahead as we continue to cover the Epstein scandal.
Democratic Congressman Sam Liccardo will join us to speak about how Democrats themselves are responding.
Plus, remember that New Orleans jail break? Now, a number of the men in this video pleading not guilty to escaping. Again, remember the video.
And emotional moments for the families of the Idaho college students who were violently stabbed, coming face to face with their killer.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was forced to learn how to survive the unimaginable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're evil. There's no place for you in heaven.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world's watching because of the kids, not because of you. Nobody cares about you.
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[06:15:33]
HILL: Let's get you caught up now on your morning roundup. Just about 15 -- exactly 15 minutes, actually, past the hour. How's that?
Columbia University agreeing to pay more than $220 million in a deal with the Trump administration to get most of its federal funding restored.
The school did not admit to any wrongdoing as part of that settlement, which also includes restrictions on campus demonstrations; new disciplinary procedures; and an immediate review of its Middle East curriculum.
Nine men accused of escaping from a New Orleans jail in May by slipping through a hole behind a toilet and then scaling a barbed-wire fence, pleading not guilty to escape charges.
A 10th inmate is still on the run.
At least 16 people have now been arrested and charged for helping with the escape or the aftermath.
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LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM, MUSICIAN (singing): If you go forward --
STEVIE NICKS, MUSICIAN (singing): Go forward.
BUCKINGHAM (singing): I'll meet you there.
NICKS (singing): I'll meet you there.
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HILL: If you, like me, were hopeful and guessing that recent cryptic posts from Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham meant something was in the works, well, you were right. The two announcing their only joint album, "Buckingham Nicks," will get an official reissue in September, 50 years after its initial release.
Straight ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, the Trump Justice Department putting together a, quote, "strike force" to investigate former President Barack Obama.
Plus, a win for Venus Williams. Why the tennis legend says she had to make a comeback at 45.
And this is where Venus is heading next. She has a wild card for entry in next month's Cincinnati Open. Cincinnati, good morning to you. Get ready. Greatness on its way.
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HILL: She's back. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING)
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HILL: Forty-five-year-old Venus Williams is now the oldest player to win a singles match on the WTA tour since Martina Navratilova won in the first round of Wimbledon in 2004 at age 47.
Up next for her, the round of 16 tonight at the D.C. Open. Her win this week, all the more impressive given her 16-month absence. So why the comeback now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VENUS WILLIAMS, PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: I had to come back for the insurance, because I'm -- they informed me earlier this year I'm on COBRA. So, I was like, I got to get my benefits on; started training.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Joining me now to discuss, Rennae Stubbs, former professional tennis player and commentator, a former coach for Serena Williams. And of course, you were conducting that interview with Venus after her win here in D.C.
You know, we laugh about the health care issue. It's very relatable for a number of Americans. And she was serious, Rennae.
RENNAE STUBBS, FORMER PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: She was absolutely serious. I mean, sort of said in a funny way, but we have had this conversation, and one of the conversations about retiring is you lose your WTA insurance, which is fantastic.
We pay into it as players. So, once you retire, you're off of that. So, she was dead serious there, but also hilarious.
HILL: Yes. She was. She was so -- I loved that moment after the match as you were speaking with her. Because she was -- she was hilarious. She was warm. She seemed so relaxed, so happy to be back.
I mean, what was it like that night? Not just watching her, but the reaction that you saw from the crowd and seeing her afterwards in that moment?
STUBB: Well, not surprised to hear the crowd. I mean, how exciting to get to see Venus Williams play again, particularly here in D.C., where she's so loved.
But, you know, seeing the joy on her face. She looked like a 12-year- old again. You know, she looked -- she looked so happy.
Keep in mind, yes, she hadn't won -- played a match for 16 months, but she hadn't won a match for two years. So, actually, winning the match must have felt so good for her. Somebody that's done it so much in their career.
But having not won a match for two years, you saw it on her face how happy she was. And she's so happy in her life, and clearly, winning that match meant so much to her.
HILL: So, it meant so much. You know, we talked about the health, the health insurance issue, which -- which is a real issue. I mean, she's also been pretty vocal about her ongoing struggle with painful fibroids. She's had a number of physical issues she's working to overcome.
What made this the right moment for her? Why did she feel that D.C. Open was -- was the place to be?
STUBBS: Well, she's very good friends with Mark Ein, who owns the tournament. He always says to her, I'm holding a wild card for you, V. And this time, she decided to take him up on it.
I think she's super happy in her life. As I said in the interview as well, she's engaged. She's very happy. She's getting married soon. I just -- everything. I think she just decided to keep playing and practicing and then thought, why not give it one more go and see?
Because she's finally physically OK. As you said, she's had a lot of problems with injuries and Sjogren's disease and all kinds of things.
So, I think she's happy. She feels good. So why not?
HILL: And what does this -- what does this mean for tennis?
STUBBS: Well, I mean, in some respects, you think how does a 45-year- old win on tour? But at the same time, she played great, honestly.
So, I think if her standard is like that, it says, hey, why not have Venus Williams around for another month or two? Or who knows how long she's going to keep playing?
But it also is very physical. It is tough. She did say that also in the interview. How hard tennis is to do as a professional. So, we don't know where this goes. We're just happy that she's here.
HILL: Yes. And we're happy to see -- see what happens tonight.
Rennae, thank you for getting up early. I know you were up late covering matches last night. Always good to see you, my friend. Thank you.
STUBBS: You're welcome.
HILL: Just ahead here after the break on CNN THIS MORNING, a major escalation. The latest flare-up in the long-running dispute between Thailand and Cambodia.
Plus, the president's next target in his immigration crackdown. Migrant teens.
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[06:30:01]
HILL: Good morning. I'm Erica Hill. Nice to have you with us here on CNN THIS MORNING.
Just about 6:30, almost, on the East Coast. Here's a look at what's happening right now.
