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Trump and Powell Spar over Renovation Costs; Starvation Hitting Gaza; Deputy AG Interviewed Maxwell for Second Day. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 25, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:22]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us here. I'm Erica Hill.

Just about half past the hour now on the East Coast. Here's what's happening right now.

In just a few hours, President Trump heading to Scotland for a five day visit where he's expected to meet with the U.K.'s prime minister to refine a recent trade agreement. He'll also make stops at two of his golf courses and attend the opening of a new one.

The clash between Thailand and Cambodia entering its second day. More than a dozen people have been killed, over 100,000 civilians evacuated. Clashes broke out yesterday along the long disputed 500- mile border.

Today, disgraced congressman, former congressman, George Santos, expected to report to prison, where he'll begin serving his seven year sentence for fraud. Santos posting a rather lavish goodbye on his X account, saying in part, "I may be leaving the stage for now, but, trust me, legends never truly exit."

So, there's that.

Well, it is no secret that President Trump and Fed Chair Jerome Powell don't see eye to eye on the economy. Their strained relationship really taking center stage on Thursday as the pair toured renovations at the Fed building, especially in this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, we're taking a look. And it looks like it's about 3.1 billion. It went up a little bit, or a lot. So, the 2.7 is now 3.1. And --

JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: I'm -- I'm not aware of that, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Yes, they -- it just came out. POWELL: Because you just added in a third building is what that is.

That's a third building. (INAUDIBLE) Martin building.

TRUMP: Well, yes, but it's -- it's a building that's being built.

POWELL: No, it's been -- it was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years ago. Martin's over.

TRUMP: It's part of the overall work.

POWELL: But it's not --

TRUMP: So --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The president and congressional Republicans have raised concerns about the cost of building renovations at the Fed, with Trump suggesting, without evidence, there is potential fraud at play. Fraud that could be enough cause for him to remove Powell. It is a threat, though, the president seems to have backed off of a bit, at least for now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's showing us around, showing us the work. And so, I don't want to get that. I don't want to be personal. I just would like to see it get finished.

I'd love him to lower interest rates. But other than that -- other than that, what can I tell you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Let's bring back the group chat.

Rachael, what do you make of that moment? What was the goal? And what did we get out of it?

RACHAEL BADE, CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF AND SENIOR WASHINGTON COLUMNIST, "POLITICO": I mean, look, this is President Trump trolling the Fed chair. I mean, he loves to do this. It's very Donald Trump. And it's not often you see other government officials actually push back on him. Usually they're, yes, sir, you're absolutely right.

Clearly, he's laying the groundwork here in case he decides to get rid of Powell. But I think, you know, for President Trump and his team, they really have to look at this and decide, is it worth it? Like, what is the backlash going to be? Because, you know, if you look at polling right now, I mean I think "The Wall Street Journal" actually had something out last night, showing that when it comes to the economy, people are feeling a lot better than they did six months ago. I think the numbers were up something like 11 points. People -- 40 -- 47 percent of people saying they felt the economy was on the right track. And Republicans are going to win or lose their majorities in Congress

based on how people feel about the economy. I mean I think everybody sort of agrees on that. And so, this is an area where he's actually doing rather well despite, you know, some of his polling going down. And what happens if he gets rid of Powell, right? Does the stock market suddenly freak out? Does all that economic sort of boom that he's feeling go away? So, that's something -- I mean he's playing with fire there, right?

HILL: And those are the legitimate warnings, right --

BADE: Right.

HILL: That we're hearing from Republican lawmakers, right?

BADE: Right.

HILL: From senators last week. From Jamie Dimon as well, speaking out.

To Rachael's point, this is currently, right, some of the president's latest polling not great in terms of approval ratings. But if people are feeling good about the economy, is that something he should mess with right now?

ROB BLUEY, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Well, I thought the scene at the Fed yesterday was classic Trump. It was a masterful performance on his part. The only thing he could have done better was reprise his role from "The Apprentice" and say, "you're fired." And not only that, Congress should take up Senator Mike Lee and Thomas Massie's bill and end the Fed, because the Fed is responsible for the inflation crisis, the historic levels of cost increases that our country faced during Joe Biden's presidency.

[06:35:10]

And I -- frankly, I think that this is the moment that Donald Trump needs to lean in and make some radical changes to make sure that they are not in a position to do that to the American people yet again.

ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'm not going to go that far. But what I will say to the point, I think Donald Trump was auditioning yesterday or taking the temperature to see how people will view his relationship with the Fed chairman. And if he were to fire him, he would be able to have some sort of cover among his base because everything he's doing now is about base engagement.

But here's where I would caution Republicans about the economy, because we lost on this. When you talk about the economy, there are two aspects. There's the micro and the macro. While some may be feeling better about the macro, what I do know, forget about trying to make ends meet there. Put -- people putting two ends together, hoping they meet, that's the micro. And that's where we, as Democrats, made a mistake. And we're not tuned in to how everyday individuals feel.

And so, on the whole, the economy may be doing better according to the polling, but most everyday Americans do not feel that way. And by the time the big ugly bill is implemented, I think the feelings and sentiment will be even worse.

BLUEY: No, just the opposite.

HILL: So, wait, wait, wait, let me ask you -- let me ask you a question though. Then on that point, right, do you think Democrats are doing enough to seize on this moment?

SEAWRIGHT: I think talking about affordability, highlighting the -- the -- the disaster that the big ugly bill will be. And, quite frankly, America is getting more and more expensive because of Donald Trump, because of his tariffs and because of his economic agenda. And I think that's where Democrats have to be message disciplined every single day of the week, seven days a week, and not get distracted by all these things that Republicans and sometimes the media want to take us upon.

BLUEY: Yes, like Jeffrey Epstein, right? No, so --

SEAWRIGHT: Two things can be true at once.

BLUEY: So, here -- here's -- here's the thing. In 2017, the -- Congress waited until the end of the year to pass the tax cuts. That happened in the middle of the year. That means that the economy is going to see much better results prior to the midterm elections. And so, I disagree with you on -- on that.

There's all sorts of things in there besides the tax cuts too. Boosting energy production. And so, I think you're going to see an effect, Erica, that you didn't see previously.

HILL: So, I will say, Rachael, that was the goal, right? We know, in many ways, it's to position this differently because of what was learned in 2017, in terms of when benefits kick in. So, there are questions about what is in the big, you know, the big, beautiful bill, that law, right, that could be very detrimental. The fact that those don't kick in until later, right?

BADE: Later.

HILL: That it was structured --

BADE: Conveniently.

HILL: Conveniently structured in a certain way.

BADE: Yes.

HILL: The question is, how does that actually play out?

BADE: Yes. I mean, this is a messaging challenge that Democrats, honestly, have, right? I mean they want to go out there and say, look, there's all these cuts. And it's true. I mean, you look at nonpartisan budget scoring, what we see, what, more than 10 million people are going to lose health insurance in terms of Medicaid. But when it comes to cuts and saying, you know, hospitals are going to close, rural hospitals, et cetera, people are going to lose health care, it's -- it's tough to go out there and say that without having actual examples to point to. And a lot of this stuff, the tougher stuff, doesn't come in until after the midterms.

SEAWRIGHT: In fact, Rachael, some of the stuff is already starting to happen because people are making preparation for what's to come. And if you look at the fact that premiums are going to increase if Congress, the Republican majority, does not do anything about Obamacare and the premiums. And there -- there are components of affordability I think we have to lean in on. And that's why my party cannot get distracted. Everything is up. Electricity prices are up. Groceries are up. Everything is expensive. And these are things that Donald Trump and Republicans promise to deal with on day one.

BLUEY: Well --

HILL: Group chat, stick around.

BLUEY: OK.

HILL: There will be much more to come.

We also do want to, though, get to a very disturbing situation in Gaza this morning. The images are difficult to see. So, I do want to warn you about that. Famine stretching across the enclave. Pictures of emaciated infants. You can see their bones protruding there. Malnutrition deaths for children in Gaza are up 54 percent since just April, according to UNICEF. The U.N. warning people in the enclave look like, quote, "walking corpses." More than 100 humanitarian aid organizations have called on Israel to allow the full flow of food and clean water into Gaza.

And you are also seeing protests in Israel from people calling on the government to allow more aid in. Israel, for its part, says it is not responsible for the food shortage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MENCER, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: In Gaza today, there is no famine caused by Israel. There is, however, a man-made shortage engineered by Hamas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Christiane Amanpour spoke exclusively with the prime minister of the Palestinian Authority, who is pushing back on those claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD MUSTAFA, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRIME MINISTER: I think the priority, therefore, is for the international community to pressure Israel, seriously pressure Israel to open the borders and allow food in. There is no need to give excuses. The starvation is evident. Everybody in the world can see that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is joining me now from Jerusalem.

Nic, when we spoke with you yesterday at this time, we could see some aid trucks behind you.

[06:40:03]

The fact that these calls, which have been out there for months now, but are growing louder, is that having an impact in this moment, as the pictures and the numbers, frankly, are getting worse and worse?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, these are pictures that I think are beginning to be seen more by Israeli citizens. And there's a sense that as the talks with Hamas have sort of reached another moment where there was an expectation early yesterday that there could be a ceasefire hostage deal over the weekend, that perhaps Hamas is using this international outrage over the malnutrition in Gaza. And according to UNICEF, 5,500 children in the first two weeks of this month were treated for malnutrition, 70,000 children in Gaza have these symptoms of malnutrition, according to Gazan health officials, just to kind of paint that picture a little more broadly there.

But, you know, there's a sense perhaps in Israel, and in the government, that Hamas is using this situation of Israel being condemned for this high level of malnutrition inside of Gaza to put more pressure on the Israeli government to perhaps get more of what they want in these ceasefire talks. And I think when -- to answer the question of how does that play into Israel at the moment? How does that affect decision making? We heard from the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, late yesterday, speaking to this in a way, and saying, look, if Hamas thinks that they can use our willingness to get into a ceasefire, so he's saying that Israel is willing to get into a ceasefire, there are others that would question that statement, but this is what he's saying. If Hamas thinks it can use Israel's willingness to get into a ceasefire to -- to essentially manipulate better terms in that ceasefire that weakened the state of Israel, then they are gravely mistaken. That's what the prime minister says.

This is a prime minister who has a history and ability to withstand, not only internal political pressures, but external international pressures as well. And that's what he seems to be doing at the moment.

HILL: There's also -- I mean, as the spotlight is -- is really growing, right, on the situation there. CNN has reporting that the White House doesn't have a high level official focused on Gaza humanitarian aid, noting there are concerns among former officials and aid groups about the extent of the administration's efforts to get more humanitarian support into Gaza. You have the U.K. organizing a call today between France and Germany as well to talk about this.

Is there a sense -- are there concerns among officials that you're speaking with about what could be described by some as a lack of focus in the administration when it comes to this humanitarian crisis?

ROBERTSON: There's a -- there's a sense that European partners, who -- who are growing, you know, sort of divergently away from the United States on the U.S. position supporting Israel and one where we just heard from the French president yesterday announcing that in September France will recognize a Palestinian state. And we can expect the French president to reiterate those calls when he speaks with British and German leaders today, because when he was on a visit to the U.K. recently, he spoke to the whole parliament there and said that -- that Britain as well should be supporting a Palestinian state.

So, in that sense, there is this -- this feeling among European partners that the United States isn't heavily focusing enough on the core issue here. Although what we heard from Steve Witkoff yesterday, who was, you know, pulled out of these negotiations because he said that Hamas wasn't really committed to the negotiations for a ceasefire. He said that the United States would find alternate ways to address the humanitarian situation and get the hostages released. As you say, we don't know what those are.

But we're hearing from European partners taking ever sort of stronger diplomatic positions against Israel. And that's in the light of these images of emaciated children and the growing international outrage and concern about the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

HILL: So -- and, Nic, just real quickly too, when it comes to -- when it comes to that announcement yesterday from President Macron, not entirely unexpected. The timing perhaps a little bit surprising though. The official announcement will come in September at the U.N. General Assembly is what we're -- what we understand. The first of G-7 countries to do that, right? Certainly not the first European country.

France also notably has the largest Jewish and Muslim populations in western Europe. What, practically speaking, will this change in terms of what happens in the region? What does it actually do?

ROBERTSON: Look, it will put France in a better standing with Saudi Arabia, for example, that's already supported it. And France and Saudi Arabia have a lot of common business interests, as do -- as does the United States, as do many European partners. It will undoubtedly put more pressure on Israel.

[06:45:02]

It will certainly give Palestinians a belief that -- that there are countries out there that are eventually willing to support them.

But what we heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu about the French decision, this just rewards terrorism. This is what Secretary of State Marco Rubio said was this -- this isn't -- this is not a good moment, essentially a step backwards, that it rewards Hamas. It's Hamas' agenda at the moment.

It is highly contentious, of course. And -- and -- and in that context really makes getting a -- a ceasefire deal potentially harder because the protagonists on both sides know they have more to play for as they're under more pressure.

HILL: Nic Robertson, really appreciate it. Thank you. Still to come here on CNN THIS MORNING, the president's former personal lawyer will stay in her role as top federal prosecutor in New Jersey, going around a group of judges. Does the DOJ actually have that authority? We'll find out when we lawyer up, next.

Plus, we've all seen this moment. Oh, what, you haven't seen it? You want to see it again? OK, there you go. There it is. Yes, that happened at a Coldplay concert, in case you forgot. Well, a little more fallout to share with you this morning. The group chat, back after this.

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[06:50:23]

HILL: Just about ten till the hour now. Here's your morning roundup.

The Trump administration cracking down on sanctuary cities, now suing New York City, arguing policies there are designed to impede the government's ability to enforce federal immigration laws. Mayor Eric Adams urging the city council to review those policies. It's the latest in a string of similar lawsuits. Los Angeles, New York state, Colorado and others have all been targeted.

The Republican National Committee chair may be looking for a new gig. Two sources tell CNN, Michael Whatley is expected to jump in the North Carolina Senate race. He's got President Trump's backing. The president's daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, who was widely speculated to run, is opting out. On the Democratic side, former Governor Roy Cooper is expected to announce his run in the coming days, according to sources.

The fallout from that viral Coldplay moment continues. Kristin Cabot, the chief people officer at Astronomer, has resigned, according to the company. She was seen in that video, of course, in an embrace with the then CEO, Andy Byron, who resigned last week.

Trump Justice Department officials are having another highly anticipated interview with longtime Jeffrey Epstein confidante Ghislaine Maxwell. So, why are they even talking to her now?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Is she a credible witness? I mean, this is a person who's been sentenced to many, many years in prison for terrible, unspeakable conspiratorial acts and acts against innocent young people. I mean, can we trust what she's going to say?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: It's a question Justice Department officials are wrestling with as they continue to comb through decades of details of her relationship with Epstein.

This feels like a good time to lawyer up. Former federal prosecutor, CNN legal analyst, Elliot Williams joining the group chat. So, Elliot, let's get some of the -- of the lawyer up questions out of

the way.

So, when we look at where things stand, in its sentencing memo, you have the DOJ writing, and I'm quoting them here, "the defendant has lied repeatedly about her crimes, exhibited an utter failure to accept responsibility, and demonstrated repeated disrespect for the law and the court," which is quite a starting point when you're going to speak to someone.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's quite a starting point, and it's pretty standard language that you would find in a sentencing memo.

Now, a few different things. Number one, the Justice -- she's appealed her conviction. And the Justice Department is opposing that. And so, the Justice Department wants this person to remain in jail, regardless of what they think she might provide, number one. Number two, as someone with a felony -- or with any conviction, the law is clear that you can discredit their testimony if they were to come into court.

So, what you have here is the Justice Department sitting down with someone, number one, that they want in prison, and, number two, who they've established that they don't trust.

Now, that's common. Certainly even I, as a prosecutor, would talk with witnesses and, you know, about other evidence or information they have. But, come on, something just doesn't smell right here.

HILL: Well, there's also the question of, right, so having the deputy AG go down to speak with her for what's now going to be a second day.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HILL: There is the question of, a, the folks who worked on that case and the investigation initially, right, where are they, since they would have this fulsome knowledge of -- of that case? But also, what are you getting at this point? I mean what are the questions that remain unanswered that she could potentially answer?

WILLIAMS: Look, if someone has information about people who committed crimes and can come forward and provide it, by all means, you know, go down, here about it and talk about it.

Now, number one, the case has been percolating out there for certainly well over a decade. So, there's very little that I think she would have that hasn't come out before, number one. Number two, a lot of what she has, it seems like, might be embarrassing information about high profile people, but nothing that the Justice Department I -- could charge. Now, again, who knows, maybe she's sitting on "the list" or the smoking gun, or the piece of paper written in Jeffrey Epstein's beautiful script that says, these are all the people who've committed violations of federal law. And here's the evidence that we can have to establish them. It's just -- it's hard to imagine that any of that comes out. That could be actually made available to the public. HILL: So, if nothing comes out of this, right, and then we're back to

the square where we all are sitting today, how damaging is that for -- how damaging is that for the president, for the administration?

BLUEY: I mean it shows, I think as Elliot has indicated, that they're taking it seriously and they want to have these conversations. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think, at the end of the day, we need to take a step back and remember the 1,000 victims that were part of this sex trafficking operation that Jeffrey Epstein ran. And I think that that's probably being a little bit lost in the -- in the story. It's an important piece that we need to remember.

But yes, Erica, I agree with you, that if this doesn't materialize into anything, it probably just prolongs the story.

WILLIAMS: And with those 1,000 victims, remember, if Ghislaine Maxwell is going to start providing a lot of information, you probably got to strike her a deal to let her out of prison or to at least shorten her sentence.

[06:55:02]

Are you going to tell those 1,000 young women that this, whatever -- I won't even use the term, but that this individual is now going to be getting out of prison just because the president was mad that the internet was chattering about whether he was on a list. That just can't happen. No sane prosecutor would allow that.

HILL: It's a -- it's a fair question.

All right, we have a lot to get to in this chat.

Can I ask you one more --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HILL: One more legal question very quickly.

When we saw what happened in New Jersey this week. So, Alina Habba, her -- her interim term was set to end today, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HILL: The panel of judges said, we don't feel good about keeping you in that role. We're appointing this other woman. Pam Bondi fired her. This woman, Desiree Gray, says, I'm still taking the job.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HILL: Does the attorney general -- can she, in fact, fire Desiree Grace?

WILLIAMS: Sure, she can. But -- but the -- the way it works is that if the judges install someone in an acting role, which the law empowers them to do.

HILL: Right.

WILLIAMS: This is not rogue judges doing a thing. This is what happens when you have someone who's been acting in a role for too long. The attorney general can appoint someone from -- or, pardon me, when the judges install someone from outside --

HILL: Yes.

WILLIAMS: They don't have to be a government employee. So, even if Pam Bondi fires her, this person can still serve in an acting role.

HILL: Still.

WILLIAMS: Let's be clear, the president is entitled to his people, no matter who they are. But you got to follow what the courts say and what -- and what the rules are. And the law is quite explicit, an individual in the -- as Alina Habba was, cannot stay in an acting role by law for a certain period of time.

HILL: Passed (ph). Right.

WILLIAMS: If you want her to have the role, send her to the Senate, have the Senate vote on her and decide whether she should have the role or not. But playing these games with the courts --

HILL: Just needed to clear -- so, we just needed to clear that one up.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HILL: Now, we got to talk "South Park" people, OK.

WILLIAMS: All right. Oh.

HILL: So, the latest episode of "South Park" is out. The president likely not very happy with it. The White House put out a statement about it. It was the season premiere episode this week. Part of it included a naked President Trump in bed with the devil, and certainly a few swipes at "South Park's" own parent company. Here's just a little bit of that episode.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another random (EXPLETIVE DELETED) commented on my Instagram that you're on the Epstein list.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Epstein list? Are we still talking about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, are you on the list or not? It's weird that whenever it comes up you just tell everyone to relax.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not telling everyone to relax. Relax, guy (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I need counseling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So, the White House has called this "a desperate attempt for attention."

I mean, the full episode is not just about Satan and Donald Trump, right? We should point out, there's -- there's a lot of commentary in it, which is sort of what "South Park" does.

Who has had the chance to watch the full episode? I don't know if everybody -- so, it may -- it may just be the two of us. There's a lot in there. Number one, is there anything surprising, though, that "South Park," in this moment, would go after both the president and Paramount?

WILLIAMS: I -- I think they're probably the only entity that could have gotten away with it, only because -- I don't think, no matter what anyone thinks about "South Park," I don't think that they have a reputation as being a, you know, Antifa, left wing program. If anything -- look, there's a -- there's a term in American politics, "South Park" Republicans, right? It exists. So, they did it.

I think the show was 20 minutes of biting spot on social satire. And one and a half minutes at the end of, oh, wow, that might have crossed the line.

HILL: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And I'm curious to see, you know, where the White House goes with this.

HILL: Yes.

SEAWRIGHT: But it also goes to show the velocity and the scale of this conversation in the moment. I think when you have a show like "South Park" willing to go against the grain and kind of put it, you know, put it in peoples face, I think it shows like, this is something bigger than just in the political circles. And I think that should be the one takeaway we take from this.

But also --

HILL: Are you speaking about this -- the this being Epstein.

SEAWRIGHT: The Epstein stuff.

HILL: OK.

SEAWRIGHT: And then I would also add that, let's just see if "South Park" remains on the air, because Trump has a history of trying to exterminate programs that go after him.

HILL: Which is -- which is not -- spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. That's sort of addressed in the episode.

WILLIAMS: Oh God.

HILL: With the help of Jesus.

WILLIAMS: Yes. HILL: So, as -- as we're -- I mean, this also, though, right, this is coming up as a part of this merger that was finally approved after some changes were made to CBS' programing. Coincidence?

BLUEY: Sure. The new parent company has said that they will eliminate basically the diversity programs at CBS, and they'll ensure that there's unbiased journalism. So, yes, they did make a lot of promises to the FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, as a result of this happening,

I will say this point. You know, I think it's great that -- that president -- the president's critics are now embracing satire because for years the Babylon Bee (ph) and others were annoying liberals and Democrats and all we heard about how they should be censored by the social media platforms for what they were doing. So, I think, you know, satire is a good thing, Erica, and -- and hopefully we can all have a laugh over it.

HILL: Rachael, I want to ask you about this. In terms of the deal, you know, the -- Anna Gomez, who did not vote for it, right, on the FCC said in a statement, "after months of cowardly capitulation to this administration, Paramount finally got what it wanted. Unfortunately, it's the American public who will ultimately pay the price for its actions."

Is there a sense that this does, in fact, this deal sets a precedent for dealings with the FCC moving forward?

[07:00:03]

BADE: Yes. I mean, just to be very candid, I haven't followed it as closely in terms of the deal making there. But what I want to -- I do want to bring this back to, like, is this a problem for -- for Donald Trump in terms of "South Park" here? I mean, you know, just to go back to what we were saying, this -- this really shows that the Epstein thing has really sort of seeped into the culture of the country. And that's really problematic for him.

And, you know, one other thing to mention here. Trump is like, he's usually on the other side of this, right? He's the one who sort of perfected the role of being the bully and sort of sticking it to people and making sort of sick burns. But when he's on the other side, he's got some thin skin sometimes. So, the lashing out of there is not particularly surprising. But a lot of, as you guys said, a lot of the MAGA base likes this show. And that's a real problem for him in terms of who's watching.

HILL: Much more to discuss. We'll have to leave it there for this hour, though. Thank you all for being here. Have a great weekend.

Thanks to all of you for waking up with us. I'm Erica Hill, in for Audie Cornish. Stay tuned. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.