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Jeffrey Edmonds is Interviewed about the Trump-Putin Summit; Brett Smiley is Interviewed about Trump's Police Takeover; White House Orders Smithsonian Review. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired August 13, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:34]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish. Thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's 31 minutes past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.

Armored vehicles on the National Mall. DEA and FBI agents patrolling with cops, National Guard troops and border patrol beefing up security in D.C. That's what President Trump's takeover of the district is showing this morning. Federal agents have already been part of dozens of arrests.

And going live now to Portugal, where a large fire is burning. Strong winds and high temperatures are stoking the flames. Nearly 700 firefighters are working to knock down that fire right now.

And the president is expected to participate in a virtual meeting today with Ukraine's leader, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Zelenskyy is in Germany, and the meeting will be hosted by the German chancellor. It comes two days before Trump's Alaska summit with Vladimir Putin.

And he's calling that a listening exercise. That's how Trump's team is talking about his approach ahead of that one on one with Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And, look, only one party that's involved in this war is going to be present. And so this is for the president to go and to get, again, a more firm and better understanding of -- of how we can hopefully bring this war to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Ukraine's president will not be there, but Zelenskyy is making it clear he won't cede any land to Russia, and he must have a seat at the negotiating table moving forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will definitely have a trilateral meeting at the level of leaders. I don't know the date. If we want to end the war, it will happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: To prepare for the summit, President Putin spoke Tuesday with North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un, who's been supplying Putin with troops. Putin and Trump will be meeting Friday at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson on the north edge of Anchorage. Some of the locals don't seem too excited about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having a world leader who -- with such a high body count is unsettling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's an opportunity for us to demonstrate against Trump when he's here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's an interesting meeting, although it seems -- seems kind of like it's none of our business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Former CIA military analyst Jeffrey Edmonds joins the group chat.

Thanks for being here.

JEFFREY EDMONDS, FORMER DIRECTOR FOR RUSSIA, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: So, we heard this concern about the land, right? Who -- when -- when this war is over, if this -- where will be the borders of Ukraine and Russia? And I also recall that the president, you know, eked out a -- a resources deal with Ukraine.

EDMONDS: Right.

CORNISH: Is all of this conversation around land and resources?

EDMONDS: I think that the -- one of the -- the misunderstandings that the administration has had going into this all along is that Putin just wants land, that he wants the Donbas, but that's just not what this is about. That's not why he invaded Ukraine. He invaded Ukraine to demilitarize Ukraine, to denazify Ukraine, and to really conduct regime change. And so, as long as that hasn't happened and Putin thinks he's winning, and he is, then he's not going -- you're not going to see any kind of meaningful peace deal come out of a land deal.

CORNISH: If you think Putin is winning, what do you think is the point of this meeting?

EDMONDS: I think that Trump is trying, once again, and other presidents have done this too, they just really have this belief in the sheer power of their own personality to bring Putin around, right?

[06:35:05]

He seems very reasonable in person. Someone you can deal with. He's pragmatic. Or at least he seems that way. But in general, you -- the -- the -- every single president that has tried this has been disappointed in the end.

CORNISH: I want to bring something to the group. During his campaign last year, Donald Trump was talking about his ability to end wars, and he's always had his eye on ending the war in Ukraine. Here's how he talked about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That is a war that's dying to be settled. I will get it settled before I even become president. If I win, when I'm president-elect. And what I'll do is I'll speak to one. I'll speak to the other. I'll get them together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: He believes in that knee to knee conversation, that it makes a difference. It has not worked with Putin. Am I misreading that?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: No, no.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No.

CORNISH: OK. Oh, this show is easy then. Bye. Thank you for being here.

So, what are you thinking as he's going into this summit?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: As we've seen, the expectations for this keep on getting downgraded. And I think the White House has set this up because they want to show some movement. He likes spectacle. We saw when he met Kim Jong-un, the head of North Korea, in his first term. That was a lot of spectacle that really didn't result in any kind of meaningful change. And so, I think that, at this point, it is a very dangerous situation that we're in because Vladimir Putin is not your regular run of the mill dictator. This is a man who is in charge of a very large country, who has killed an inordinate amount of people. And he is very clear on his objectives. And I am not very clear on what President Trump's objectives are.

GARRETT GRAFF, JOURNALIST AND HISTORIAN: I think there's a very simple answer to that, which is, you can never go wrong thinking that it's ego. That -- the thing that it's clear that I think Donald Trump wants out of the second term is a Nobel Peace Prize. And in sort of conflict after conflict this year, we've seen Donald Trump sort of declare that he was the one who settled it. Even though in cases like India and Pakistan, that has puzzled the people who are actually engaged in the conflict, when he declares victory in settling the conflict.

And so, I think this is spectacle, as Lulu says, but it's also, I think, part of what he views as sort of his grand ambition of being a peacemaker. CORNISH: Jeffrey, every time I feel like someone showed me a chart

when -- when the president speaks with Putin kind of on the phone, afterwards Putin would, like, bomb Ukraine basically a little bit more. So, what are you going to be watching for out of this Friday meeting and beyond?

EDMONDS: I think that you're not going to see any change in what Russia is doing right now. They are slowly making gains in the east. The attacks that they -- that they conduct against critical infrastructure is the way Russians fight. They've talked about this for decades.

CORNISH: But more aggressive. Like, we've seen their use of drones increase. We've just seen, like --

EDMONDS: Even -- right. As much as he can.

CORNISH: Yes.

EDMONDS: As much as they -- they can actually increase what they're doing because it is -- it is, you know, a huge resource drain for Russia to conduct this war. But I think you will see an increase. I don't know that the increase comes simply because he talked to Trump. But what you won't see is a decrease because he has talked to Trump.

CORNISH: And should I read anything into that conversation with North Korea? I mean we've been talking so much about how Trump prepared for the meeting. And I think it's notable that Putin's preparation --

EDMONDS: Right.

CORNISH: You know, involves a resource of troops and otherwise.

EDMONDS: Right. So there's been a, you know, for -- from the standpoint of -- of Russia and North Korea, there's been a useful exchange of -- of goods, really. North Korea providing soldiers to Russia to push back against the Kursk -- the earlier mission that the Ukrainians conducted inside Russia.

CORNISH: Yes.

EDMONDS: But also there's technology transfer between both. That's become even more important given the situation in Iran. Russia was getting a lot from Iran. There's less now. And so they -- Putin's going to get help from wherever he can.

CORNISH: All right, Jeffrey, thanks so much for joining us.

You guys, stay with us.

We're also going to be talking about how as this high-stakes meeting happens, CNN's Jake Tapper is in Alaska, Anderson Cooper in Washington, are going to do special coverage of this Trump-Putin summit. That's coming up on Friday on CNN.

And next on CNN THIS MORNING, National Guard troops roll through the streets of D.C. Who could be next? And how are other mayors planning to stop this from happening to them? I'm going to talk to one after the break.

Plus, A.I. and the age of -- age verification. YouTube is testing out a new way to protect kids.

And we want to know what's in your group chat. Send it to us now at X. We're going to be talking about ours after this.

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[06:44:03]

CORNISH: It's 43 minutes past the hour, and here is your morning roundup.

Nearly 500 rounds were fired during Friday's attack on the CDC in Atlanta. New details were released yesterday. We learned the gunman broke into his father's safe and took five firearms, and that investigators found writings from the gunman which expressed his discontent with the Covid vaccine. Officials also confirmed he died from shooting himself.

Today, YouTube will begin testing age verification on its site using A.I. It's going to look at the content users watch and determine if they are a minor or not, and it will not be determined on the age entered on the account. If YouTube determines someone is under the age of 18, restrictions will be put in place. If the system gets it wrong, you can prove your age by showing your I.D.

And Zohran Mamdani has opened up a lead just a few months out from New York City's mayoral election. He is up 44 percent to former Governor Andrew Cuomo's 25 percent.

[06:45:02]

That's in a new Sienna College poll. The poll also shows the current mayor, Eric Adams, trailing at 7 percent.

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ZOHRAN MAMDANI, NEW YORK MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Doors are opening in the same places that we were struggling many months ago. And now we have a team that is also able, not only to sustain that, but to ensure that we can continue to grow our message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: This as Cuomo calls for the remaining candidates in the race to throw their weight behind the person who appears to be the strongest in a head-to-head matchup against Mamdani.

So, President Trump has picked his nominee for jobs data czar. He basically fired the last person because the data didn't match the version of events the president hoped to portray. So, meet E.J. Antoni. He's a conservative economist who has been openly critical of the agency. For example, a few weeks ago he posted on X, quote, "there are better ways to collect, process and disseminate data, and that only consistent delivery of accurate data in a timely manner will rebuild the trust that has been lost."

Antoni is also a known contributor to Project 2025, a MAGA friendly voice. Here he is with conservative activist and former adviser to the president, Steve Bannon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: Have we put in our own person into BLS? Is -- is a -- is a MAGA Republican that President Trump knows and trusts, are they running the Bureau of Labor Statistics yet, sir?

E.J. ANTONI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: No, unfortunately, Steve, we still haven't gotten there. And I think that's part of the reason why we continue to have all of these different data problems.

We're going to see hundreds of thousands of jobs that we thought we had in 2024 it turns out never even existed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, group chat is back.

I want to talk about this because there has been a lot of conversation about, can people trust data from the government? We even hear it now in the crime conversation. What does it mean to have unbiased data? Based on this person and their resume, do you think we're looking at someone who can deliver that?

GRAFF: It seems unlikely. And I think sort of -- this is part of what to me is Donald Trump's evil superpower, which is the way that he makes us focus in on and care about minor government jobs that most Americans should never have to think about. You know, postmaster general, GSA administrator, the person who's running the Treasury payment system.

BLS is as technocratic a job as there possibly could be in the U.S. government. And it's one where much of our finance sector, much of our economy sort of runs on being able to have unimpeachable data coming out of that system. And the moment I think we begin to undermine the possible integrity there, it's to our detriment.

CORNISH: Yes. What they've raised over and over again, the White House, is the idea that every time there are revisions, which is that lag time when they -- when the labor statistics folks get more accurate numbers from the companies that voluntarily submitted to the survey, that those revisions themselves are evidence of bias.

Can -- can you guys help me parse some of that, because here's how Antoni --

HEYE: You want to go first?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, um --

CORNISH: Well -- well, here's Antoni talking to Fox News Digital. He was saying, "until this is corrected, the BLS should suspend issuing monthly job reports, but keep publishing the more accurate, though less timely, quarterly data."

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, of course.

CORNISH: I mean, wait until all the numbers are in.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So -- so, this is the problem here. He is, for many people, the worst case scenario. He has critics on the right. Very strong critics on the right. Because they see him as a partisan who really doesn't have the background. He comes from sort of mediocre university. He doesn't -- hasn't published a lot of papers. He is not considered to be an economic giant, if you will. I'm just quoting people. I have no idea. So, that is the criticism of him on the right.

And then, of course, on the left, people see him as just highly partisan. The problem here is, when you talk about faith in the numbers, this is again a problem that has not existed before. I have not heard a lot of outcry of -- of -- from -- from economists or others saying, oh, my God, the numbers that we get from the United States are completely wrong. In fact, quite the opposite. Our entire system runs on the fact that these numbers have been solid. People trust them. And so, the global markets, leaving aside the American markets, look at these numbers as the gold standard. So, by degrading your faith in that, what you're doing is degrading the gold standard of the American economic system.

CORNISH: Yes. Also, if the economy goes in the direction that the president wants, and he starts pointing to numbers to tell us that's true, can we trust them?

HEYE: It becomes problematic, doesn't it? And look, we see revisions every month. Sometimes they're revised upwards. Sometimes downward. But I'm reminded of this higher and others of a story about when President George H.W. Bush was president.

[06:50:02]

His son, W., was going around the West Wing and other offices saying, we need more loyalty. And we define loyalty politically very different today than we did back then. Obviously, anybody that Donald Trump hires, whether it's this person or someone else, is going to be extremely loyal to Trump. And my concern on this is, on numbers that markets and investors really need to trust, that whatever the numbers are, whether they're manipulated or not, that the statements that then will come out of BLS, if those numbers are reported, by the way, the statements coming out of the BLS will sound like exactly what we've seen from Trump's doctors, that these are not just the fittest, strongest president in our history, but the fittest, greatest economy in the world, that then markets will ultimately dismiss.

GARCIA-NAVARR: And I've just seen versions of that all over the world. I've covered these countries, Argentina, Venezuela, you know, you see it in Turkey. People don't trust the numbers. And so, they can't make rational decisions on them. And once you start degrading that, you know, what follows, banking crises, you know, economic crises. People need accurate information that they can trust, and they don't trust it when they see any president -- this isn't a right or left issue -- sticking their hand in and trying to maybe push the numbers in one direction.

CORNISH: It will be interesting to see if there is any kind of backlash to this nomination. It's -- not every single nomination has worked out of the gate for the president. It will be interesting to see what happens with this one.

I want to turn to this ongoing issue of the president's so-called law and order crackdown in major cities. Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles, for example. And the question is, is that just the beginning?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president wants to see all of our nation's cities be safe. But I think, starting with our nation's capital, is a great place to begin. And it should serve as a model for the rest of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: While the White House says their actions in D.C. are a model for the rest of the country, the city's mayor says it's a warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MURIEL BOWSER (D), WASHINGTON, D.C.: He wants to send the message to cities that if he can get away with this in Los Angeles, if he can get away with this in D.C., he can get away with it in New York or Baltimore or Chicago or any other place where millions of people live, work and are doing everything the right way. And it is a step in fascism when the federal government can big foot sovereign states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now is Mayor Brett Smiley of Providence, Rhode Isand.

Mayor Smiley, thank you for waking up with us.

MAYOR BRETT SMILEY (D), PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND: Good morning.

CORNISH: You heard the mayor there calling this a step in fascism. A warning to other cities.

First, can you just address that. Is that hyperbole? How are other leaders, city leaders you're in touch with, talking about this?

SMILEY: It's certainly unprecedented for us to have federal law enforcement or federal troops without us asking for them in our cities. There is a partnership that happens regularly between local police, state police and federal officials, but it's always been at the request of local officials, whether it be a disaster or some other circumstance. To have federal troops come to my city without request is deeply alarming and -- and I think will only make my city and cities across America less safe.

You know, I heard the press secretary say the president wants to make America's cities safer. That's great. So do I. America's cities are safer than ever. And we would we would welcome things like the Cops Grant to hire more police officers, violence intervention programs through the Department of Justice that work.

CORNISH: Yes.

SMILEY: So, there's lots of ways we're happy to partner with the federal government, but this is not the right way.

CORNISH: I hear this over and over again, city leaders saying, look, the stats show crime is not what it was. That it is down. Then you have Trump administration officials, a good example is Jeanine Pirro. And -- and here's her response to that sort of focus on the data.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANINE PIRRO, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: But what this makes clear to me is that there is a whole community that is suffering because of the violent crime in this district. And anyone who wants to tell me that crime is down and that we don't need an emergency focus on crimes of violence, all they need to do is take a look at this and talk to the loved ones and the family members of these individuals, all shot and killed long before their time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: As we said, you've talked about a decline in crime statistics for Providence. Does that matter to a family? Does that matter to victims? And is that where the Trump administration has a point?

SMILEY: Listen, no amount of violent crime should be acceptable. And in my city, we work to get towards zero every year. And -- and I know through the United States Conference of Mayors that most American cities are having -- on the right trajectory with crime statistics, but we're all working towards zero.

[06:55:08]

The question is, is whether actions like this will actually help us get to zero. I don't think they will. Community policing works. Having local law enforcement with a relationship with the neighborhoods that they are policing and patrolling, works. Sending in National Guards men and women who have not been trained in -- in urban policing, are not trained community police officers, isn't going to make our city's any safer. And so, it is true that we should not tolerate any violent crime in our city or in our state or in our country. The reality is that it exists, and we keep working those numbers to try to get them down to zero. And the -- what the Trump administration is talking about is not going to help us get to zero. CORNISH: Is part of the problem that Democrats have not settled on a

way to talk about crime in the aftermath of 2020 and the death of George Floyd? Meaning, the defund the police conversation, the conversation about how D.A.s should act and what people wanted to reform in that world. I mean, are you even prepared to have a political law and order debate?

SMILEY: I think so. And I think certainly we should start with mayors. You know, I chair -- I co-chair the Mayors and Police Chiefs Task Force at the Conference of Mayors. It's bipartisan. Republican Mayor Jerry Dyer of Fresno is my co-chair. And we're the ones that are actually on the ground in our communities. And I don't know a single mayor, Republican or Democrat, that's talking about defunding the police. We're the ones that actually have to implement these policies to keep our community safe. And I think we're the ones that should be the voices being elevated. I -- that's why I appreciate this opportunity, because we're the ones that are overseeing our police chiefs, that are looking at weekly crime statistics, that, frankly, are talking to victims of crime and going to funerals.

And so, so long as we continue to -- to seek out the opinion and the guidance from those of us who are on the ground doing the work on a daily basis, I think Democrats have a very compelling message to make because we're -- we're doing it and the results are good. I mean, you've mentioned it. And the crime statistics in this country, coming from the Trump administration, from the FBI itself, show that violent crime is down in this country, and it's down in nearly every city in this country.

CORNISH: Mayor Brett Smiley, he is from Providence, Rhode Island. Thank you for your time.

SMILEY: Thank you.

CORNISH: Next, we're going to turn to that DEI purge happening in cultural institutions. We've seen it with the military. Also government agencies. Now the White House is conducting a comprehensive review of all the exhibits at the Smithsonian. And this is the latest move to impose the president's views on American institutions and also purge them of materials focused on diversity.

A letter to the Smithsonian, written by three top Trump aides, says the goal is to, quote, "ensure alignment with the president's directive to celebrate American exceptionalism, remove divisive and partisan narratives, and restore confidence in our shared cultural institutions."

The Smithsonian oversees 21 museums, 21 libraries, the National Zoo, and numerous research centers, and several education centers.

I want to bring in the group chat.

One could see this coming from a while because back in March there was an executive order specifically around cultural institutions and American history. Is there something sort of distinct about this, the way they are doing it now? HEYE: I think it's just a continuation of what we've seen. And my

concern is that, one, we don't need the government bending over to the president -- bending in the direction of the president on everything, as we've seen.

But also, the Smithsonian is a jewel. It's a jewel for Washington, D.C., for the nation, internationally. I don't want to see it tampered with and messed up.

CORNISH: But, Doug, to push back, I feel like it has been a long- running Republican project to take back institutions they believe were ideologically captured by liberals.

HEYE: Oh, I think a lot of institutions have been captured by liberals. This is a bit of a different situation, though. Donald Trump is trying to bend the government, not towards a middle of the road place or even a conservative place. This is about Donald Trump.

GRAFF: Yes, and I think that, you know, over the course of this hour, these are the same stories we've talked about, you know, in different sectors. I mean this is the same story as BLS. This is the same story as the D.C. police takeover. It's this idea that Donald Trump's viewpoint is the only one that matters in our country, and that all institutions have to reflect his very specific view of what's right and what's wrong.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, I think this is the umbrella under which all of this sits. You know, it's hard for us in the media, right? We take each story, and we talk about it, and crime is important and it's important to talk about it. It's important to talk about, you know, our institutions and what kind of messages they're sending.

But, you know, what is lost in all of this is really what the project is. And the project is, as everyone here has said, bending all the institutions to the will of this president.

[07:00:05]

And so, it is not a presidential ambition. It seems like he is trying to be a prince. And that is the concern that I'm hearing echoed by many people.

CORNISH: A prince. OK.

Well, listen, we tackled a lot. You guys managed to tie it all together, which I appreciate.

I want to thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. And stick with us for the headlines. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.