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CNN This Morning

Courtenay Brown is Interviewed about the Fed Meeting; Trump Visits Windsor Castle; Rep. Ryan Zinke (R-MT) is Interviewed about Russia. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired September 17, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:22]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: It is half past the hour. Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. And I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

Here's what's happening right now.

Students return to Utah Valley University today for the first time since the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Heightened security is in place and will continue throughout the semester.

Overnight, we learned the Justice Department is still weighing federal charges against the alleged gunman. The suspect made his first court appearance yesterday and is charged with aggravated murder, obstruction of justice and witness tampering. He could face the death penalty.

And former CDC Director Susan Monarez will testify before the committee on health today. She's expected to say that HHS Secretary RFK Jr. put politics before public health by requiring all CDC policy to be cleared by political staff. Dr. Monarez was fired after just 29 days on the job.

And TikTok still operating in the U.S. A long-delayed ban has been extended again, just days after U.S. negotiators revealed a framework deal was in place with China to operate the app domestically.

OK, so unprecedented, pivotal, dramatic, even somehow I'm talking about today's Federal Reserve board meeting. Stay with me. The elephant in the room here is President Trump's aggressive attempts to try to reshape the Fed's top ranks.

So, he tried to fire board governor Lisa Cook before a federal appeals court actually blocked it. He's put his own person on the board. And the Senate just narrowly confirmed Trump loyalist Stephen Miran. So, will he be able to tip the scales in favor of the interest rate cut Trump -- that cut that Trump so desperately wants? Economists predict a quarter of a percent rate cut from the Fed today.

Now, in a Truth Social post, Trump said the cuts should be bigger than Powell had in mind.

Joining us now to discuss in the group chat, Courtenay Brown, economics reporter at "Axios."

Girl, I need your help. I need your help. Normally, I'd be like, Fed board meeting. OK, sure. But there's a lot of drama here because there's new people at the table, including one who I'm not sure if she can vote, Lisa Cook. What's the status?

COURTENAY BROWN, ECONOMICS REPORTER, "AXIOS": Lisa Cook can vote. The Trump administration tried to remove her ahead of this meeting, which we can talk about why that doesn't make sense. Everything in her history shows she would actually support a rate cut today, but leave that to the side for a second.

So, we know that she is in the room, and she will be voting this afternoon. And the expectation is for an interest rate cut. The first one in a year. The Fed has sat on its hands for a year trying to decide when the right time was for the next move. And here we are.

CORNISH: And it's raised the ire of the president, obviously, because, first of all, there's slower job growth. It's just -- whatever the argument has been about the numbers, it's pretty clear. There's also a drop in home mortgage rates. Freddie Mac estimates the interest rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage is now around 6.35 percent. So, what do these economic conditions mean? Like, is there going to be dissent on the Fed about doing this, or does everyone kind of feel like it's in the direction to happen for a cut?

BROWN: This is what I've been thinking about all weekend. So, does Stephen Miran, we -- we knew that he was probably going to get confirmed in time to participate in this meeting. Does he come in hot? You know, like, he's day two on the job. But what are you doing --

CORNISH: Right. We know why he's there.

BROWN: Yes, what are you doing on day two? You're trying to figure out where the bathroom is. But does he come in hot and dissent in favor of a half percentage point rate cut?

[06:35:05]

All expectations are for a quarter percentage point cut. But does Stephen Miran, in his first few days on the Fed, dissent in favor of a bigger cut? We're just trying to see what the dynamics are in the room. And I think that will give us an idea of what happened if, in fact, he does dissent in favor of a larger cut, as the president has been asking for.

CORNISH: I want to bring in our friends who also ask me for "The Wall Street Journal" when they come in here in the morning. Does anyone have any questions for Courtenay?

CHARLIE DENT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASPEN INSTITUTE CONGRESSIONAL PROGRAM: Yes, I mean, it just seems to me that this cut is really just driven because the Fed is concerned about a softening economy and jobs market. So, it's -- the rate cut is for a reason that is not a good one. They're more worried about the economy and jobs than they are inflation today.

BROWN: There's two types of rate cuts. There's the good news rate cut, where the Fed says, you know what, economy's performing fine. Things are in balance. We can turn the dial down on the economy. That's not what's happening this afternoon.

We are expecting Fed Chair Jerome Powell to say that the Fed is concerned about the health of the labor market. This is a bad news rate cut. We've seen hiring slow. Teen unemployment is skyrocketing. Black unemployment, skyrocketing. The Fed is concerned about the job -- the job market much more than they are concerned about the inflation side of their mandate.

ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think the bigger story is, how would the president sell this? I think he's going to sell this as, he pushed us along. More about control and reshaping the government. We've kind of seen him flirt towards that. And essentially will lead to how he needs to be more involved at the agency overall.

So, that's --

CORNISH: I haven't even asked you that. Yes, well, like how the business community sees this. I mean you were joking about a political appointee in a way kind of coming in hot. And does -- is the business community looking at today's meeting for tea leaves about what their lives are going to be like going forward?

BROWN: We should mention that Fed Governor Steven Miran has not completely resigned from his White House job. He was on the Council of Economic Advisors, the chair of the Council of Economic Advisors. In an unprecedented, as far as I can tell, he's keeping that job and serving at the Fed at the same time. So, it's -- it's really uncomfortable. This is not what the Fed -- this is not the way the Fed likes to do things. You know, they try to be very noncontroversial. So, I think the business community, we haven't quite seen it in financial markets yet, but I think that the business community is concerned that there is going to be this mixing of politics and monetary policy that no one wants to see.

DENT: Yes, which this is unprecedented. This man is on leave. Could you imagine if a president Elizabeth Warren sent one of her economic advisors on leave to the Fed? My -- my Republican colleagues would freak out. And this is unprecedented in many ways.

CORNISH: OK. Well, we actually have someone maybe who can comment on that today. You guys stay with me, we've got a lot to discuss.

Next on CNN THIS MORNING, President Trump heading to Windsor Castle for a day of pomp and pageantry. Not everyone is welcoming the U.S. president.

Plus, Congressman Ryan Zinke is here as President Trump says he's ready to sanction Russia. So, we're going to talk about whether those sanctions have any support in the House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESET: We should probably go after people like you, because you treat me so unfairly. It's hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart.

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CORNISH: And Attorney General Pam Bondi trying to clean up her comments about prosecuting hate speech.

We want to know what's in your group chat. Send it to us now on X. We're going to be talking about ours after this.

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CORNISH: So, moments from now, President Trump and the first lady will arrive at Windsor Castle for a day of pomp and pageantry. They arrived in London last night for an unprecedented second state visit. And it comes at a critical time in the U.S., U.K. relationship. There will be a ceremonial greeting, a royal salute, a carriage procession, a flyover, a lunch and a state banquet.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My relationship is very good with the U.K. And Charles, as you know, who's now king, is my friend. And it's the first time this has ever happened where somebody was honored twice. So, it's a great honor.

And this was at Windsor. They've never used Windsor Castle for this before. They use Buckingham Palace. And I don't want to say one is better than the other, but they say Windsor Castle is the ultimate, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, the visit was quickly met with protests. Activists projected images of Trump and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein onto the walls of Windsor Castle. And we're going to bring in CNN international anchor and royal correspondent Max Foster.

Max, thanks so much for being here.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Audie.

CORNISH: I want to start with maybe who's not there. The U.K. ambassador to the U.S. He was fired by Starmer, Peter Mandelson, over his links to the Jeffrey Epstein case. I don't think people fully understand how much the Epstein case is also playing in the U.K., right, where there have also been figures there. Can you talk about whether or not this is kind of starting to haunt the proceedings?

FOSTER: Well, it is really. We've had two events. There was this huge poster that was unveiled as well on the Windsor Castle grounds yesterday. That was quickly gathered up by police. And actually the projection that you saw last night, I was standing right by it. Initially, I thought it was part of the whole state visit because all I could see was Trump. And it was so perfectly formed on the castle. And then I saw Epstein and realized it was a protest. And very quickly, the police rushed into the hotel opposite where it was being projected, arrested four people and cleared out their rooms. What they're trying to do is protect him as much as possible from this sort of imagery.

It's going to happen. Donald Trump isn't very popular here. Epstein speaks, I think, to an issue many left wing groups have with corruption at the top of society.

[06:45:05]

Think about Prince Andrew. Think about what just happened with Peter Mandelson. And I think, you know, that Epstein image is starting to become a theme of this visit for the protesters. But President Trump is going to be traveling via Marine One between specific locations, all locked down. So, he's not going to see any of it. It's going to be the -- the idea is that it might happen, but he's going to be protected from it.

CORNISH: Can you talk about what Starmer wants out of this meeting? I mean, they're really rolling out the red carpet. What is the goal here?

FOSTER: Well, he needs a win massively. The Peter Mandelson affair was actually started to really undermine him. And members of his own party are calling for him to go already. This is on top of another set of scandals that's been happening. His premiership is in real trouble, so he needs some sort of win.

I think the main thing he wants from this is President Trump to go away feeling that he had a good time and he felt flattered. And it's going to be flattery galore over the course of the day, as you'll see. But any sort of wins that he can get on trade, although Downing Street now playing that down, there is a trade deal, but it needs to be fleshed out. He was hoping to flesh it out. I don't think that's going to happen.

Anything on Ukraine. Some sort of commitment, perhaps, from President Trump to NATO or commitment to the effort that Europeans are putting into the Ukrainian campaign. He needs something out of this.

CORNISH: OK. Max Foster, thanks so much for your reporting. We'll be hearing more about this meeting today.

Now, the president promised to end the war in Ukraine on day one. Now Trump is pressuring Ukraine to negotiate a peace deal directly with Russia. And that's fine with Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He says he's ready to talk to Vladimir Putin, just not in Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: I'm ready to meet with President Trump and Putin, but I'm ready to meet without any kind of conditions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you willing to go to Moscow to do that? Because that is something that Vladimir Putin has suggested.

ZELENSKYY: No, of course not. Russia attacked us. I can't -- I can't go to the country when this country, this city, Moscow, they attacking us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: President Trump claims he's prepared to sanction Russia, but only if NATO countries commit to stop buying Russian oil.

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham is getting behind that demand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I think it'd be a strong statement to have a large vote in the House and the Senate empowering President Trump to be able to go after people who prop up Putin's war machine, and they don't help Ukraine. Without fossil fuel money, Putin's out of business. He has one source of income, really, and that's oil and gas sales. And the number of people buying oil and gas from Russia, Brazil, China and India, there are two European NATO countries, Slovakia and Hungary, that continue to buy Russian oil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining us now is Montana's Republican congressman, Ryan Zinke.

Congressman, thanks so much for being here. Thanks so much for joining the chat.

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): Well, great to be with you.

You know, on the oil, I agree with the sanctions, but it's a little more complicated when you come down to crude and -- and what they're importing and what they're not.

So, for instance, India has actually increased buying U.S. fuel, U.S. energy, but they're also buying Russian heavy crudes because heavy crudes are required for a lot of refineries, to include ours. So --

CORNISH: But isn't it about leverage?

ZINKE: Well --

CORNISH: So, like, right now, as a reporter, I'm seeing that India is taking it harder on the chin than Russia in terms of punishments, financial punishments. And it's not clear that the U.S. president feels he has leverage or the ability to force Russia to do anything. I know what he thinks of Ukraine. ZINKE: Well, I absolutely agree with the sanctions, especially on --

on oil. We need to do that. It's a -- but you have to look at heavy crudes, too. We get our heavy crudes from Venezuela because there is a -- you know, there's a diminishing smaller market for heavy crudes. All our crudes are -- are sweet, right, but the refineries require these heavy crudes to blend.

So, it's leveraging and making sure that we can replace those heavy crudes somewhere in the market where it doesn't -- it doesn't hurt the U.S. But I agree with the sanctions. I agree across the board is that those -- those countries that are participating above that capacity and bringing in Russian oil are, in fact, funding this war. And we've got to apply all pressure to Russia to stop this, because right now Putin's not stopping.

CORNISH: You think all pressure is being applied?

ZINKE: I think -- I think strangulation of his economy. Look, he's a $7 trillion economy. Two if you look at it on -- on, you know, parity on buying.

CORNISH: Yes.

ZINKE: But, you know, at the end of the day, we can crush him, you know, on a $500 billion, you know, deficit on energy alone is a big deal to a Russian economy.

[06:50:10]

DENT: What -- what -- yes, I think Congress would do the president a great service by passing the sanctions bill. That would help him.

CORNISH: Aren't there still people who aren't that interested in this conversation about Ukraine?

DENT: Well --

CORNISH: On the Republican side?

DENT: There are. But I think -- I think the Congress is probably right that there are a lot of -- I think the votes are there to pass this.

CORNISH: OK.

DENT: And -- and, by the way, with respect to Russian oil, I mean Hungary is one of the countries buying Russian oil. And of course, Orban has a very strong relationship with President Trump. I think President Trump could pick up the phone and call his friend and say, knock it off.

SEAWRIGHT: Congressman, do you think the president is doing enough leaning in himself from economic sanctions or even just putting pressure with his executive authority on Putin to make certain that we stop this power grab exercise?

ZINKE: Well, and he's put a lot of pressure on the EU as well. You -- you see them now participating in --

CORNISH: Right. But -- but then you look at what Russia was doing. They were hanging out with China at a big --

ZINKE: Well -- well, yes.

CORNISH: They don't look like they are pariahs who are struggling.

ZINKE: They don't -- yes. All right, you look at the tri axis of evil. You now have, you know, Russia, China, Iran, you know, doing offshore naval joint exercises together. You see the rise of China. There's a lot -- there's a lot of tensions out there worldwide.

I think -- I think Trump, he underestimated where -- where Putin, as the aggressor, I think he did. He thought, hey, I'm the most powerful man in the world. I have a working relationship with Putin to a degree. And I'm going to be able to muscle in as the U.S. and stop this thing.

I think the solution, at the end of the day, will be the Crimean peninsula will stay Russian. There will be a land bridge between Russia and Ukraine. And there will be some force in there, even perhaps a Turkish force, because they're NATO, to be a security force to guarantee the lines will be met.

CORNISH: I want to ask you about one more thing, because you mentioned Venezuela halfway in your answer earlier. Garrett and I were looking at the papers and noticing, it's kind of buried this ongoing militarization of the war on drugs against Venezuela, as Venezuela is described as a narco terrorist state, correct? And we were wondering if you see military special ops --

ZINKE: Well, I see --

ZINKE: What do you see in this moment of us taking this action?

ZINKE: I see -- I see to parallels. One is, I see gunboat diplomacy going back to Teddy Roosevelt. And from the halls of Montezuma, if you're a Marine. I also see a lot of Panama, because I was a SEAL during -- during Panama. The participation, the control of narco drug trafficking. Clearly, the U.S. has said that organization is a terrorist organization.

And look, there's a Marine amphibious unit sitting off the coast of Venezuela and a lot of firepower. You look at the -- our naval disposition.

CORNISH: But is this how it typically goes, Garrett?

GARRETT GRAFF, AUTHOR, "THE DEVIL REACHED TOWARD THE SKY": Yes, and, you know, you're an ex-SEAL. You understand the laws of war. Is the president committing a war crime with these Venezuelan boat hits?

ZINKE: You know, I don't -- I don't think so. I think he has the power. And look, when the prime ministers of Tobago, you know, say, look, kill them all, they understand. They're in the front line. They understand the problems with what's going on, on the drugs.

I would say if -- if the Venezuelan regime, if Maduro does not change his modus of operandi. things are going to get -- are going to be a lot tighter.

CORNISH: But are we skipping steps between here and blowing up a boat with 11 people?

ZINKE: Well, my -- the war on -- the war on drugs is a war on drugs when you got drug traffickers out there. Look, they're -- they're -- they're no better than pirates in the sea. Yes. Yes, as long as the intelligence is good, you know? And that's -- and that's where --

GRAFF: And we have some indication it's not. Let's be clear.

ZINKE: Well, you know, it needs to be better, shouldn't it?

GRAFF: But that's one of the reasons you don't --

ZINKE: I mean, look, you know, look, I've been --

GRAFF: (INAUDIBLE) --

CORNISH: Yes.

ZINKE: I've been, you know -- you know, a SEAL commander before. I've been there. Your intelligence, you know, should be, when -- when you're going to go after and destroy a boat at sea. And boarding a boat at sea is enormously dangerous.

CORNISH: Yes.

ZINKE: You saw the loss of life with SEALs that do this for a living out in the gulf. So, boarding a ship is -- is tough. But if you're going to destroy it, you want to make sure your intelligence is spot on.

CORNISH: I have one more thing to ask you about. Pete Hegseth, defense secretary, talking about going after service member's suspensions, other punishments for how they reacted to the death of Charlie Kirk, particularly, if they are celebrating and if they are doing things that he has deemed as inappropriate. Is that an appropriate move?

ZINKE: Look, if you're celebrating the loss of life, a political assassination of a father, a husband, if you're celebrating a political assassination, I can tell you, I don't want you on my SEAL team.

[06:55:13]

I don't want you in my Department of Defense or Department of War. I don't want you, a sailor, a soldier, a Marine, if you're celebrating that.

CORNISH: One of the reasons why we're talking -- oh, did you have a question? SEAWRIGHT: Yes.

CORNISH: Yes.

SEAWRIGHT: Congressman, you don't think it's ironic that we've seen the reverse in other attempted or even assassinations for other folks where it's OK, it's good for thee but not good for me.

ZINKE: It never --

SEAWRIGHT: I mean this is not the first time we've had this -- and does he really have the ability, legally, to -- to silence --

CORNISH: Yes, can he actually punish service members?

SEAWRIGHT: Because the -- free speech is a thing in this country?

ZINKE: Right. This is -- this is -- this is where I sit. And, you know, I've been at war, and war is terrible. And I fought always with Americans, for Americans. I never, ever thought about fighting against Americans.

And you're right, it shouldn't be a red or a blue. This is a red, white and blue moment about the background of what's happening in our country. And look, you know, our country is worth saving. We got to have dialog. And, you know, and alluding to Charlie Kirk, this irony was is that he was in a battle of words and that, you know, proved me wrong, right? So, the whole message --

CORNISH: Yes, but the reason why I'm talking about this is because people are looking at this White House, this administration, and trying to figure out if they're using the levers of the state to police speech, which would only be -- which wouldn't be a typical thing except Republicans, for the longest time, were talking about hate speech and whether or not that was a fair way to talk about those issues.

Attorney General Pam Bondi said this about hate speech earlier this week. She was on Katie Miller's podcast. I just want to play it for you guys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT: The thing that gets to me is, every time I listen to a lawyer trained representative saying we should criminalize free speech in some way, I think to myself, that law school failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, obviously not Katie. This is obviously Sonia Sotomayor. But for context, here's Pam Bondi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's free speech and then there's hate speech. And there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie, in our society.

We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything. And that's across the aisle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, the Fox News analyst Brit Hume said "hate speech is protected," and, quote, "she should know this. The National Review, the Supreme Court will side against her nine-nothing."

And people talked about Kirk dying over this issue of free speech.

Where do you sit on this spectrum of Republicans who are like, we got to do something, and that might mean using the state law enforcement to go after people on language and people who say that is completely wrong?

ZINKE: This is where I sit. There's a difference between expression and hate. There is a difference between by -- a threat, a violent -- a violent threat. For instance, if I threaten to kill you, and I project that --

CORNISH: But this has been litigated for a long time, right, this conversation?

ZINKE: Yes. And there are lines. And I agree with -- with Pam Bondi. And there are results of -- of ignoring, for instance, all right, you know, a news outlet called President Trump 3,000 times a Nazi. Three thousand times. Well, he's not a Nazi. You may call him a lot of things. You know, braggadocious, you may call him a lot of things, but he's not a Nazi.

CORNISH: Is that incitement?

ZINKE: You know what, I think that's flaming a -- a -- what you're doing is you are causing a rift where there isn't one there, and falsely accusing someone of being a Nazi.

CORNISH: But incitement has legal --

DENT: (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: Yes.

SEAWRIGHT: And to -- to a degree. And, Congressman, his own vice --

ZINKE: (INAUDIBLE) stoop it.

SEAWRIGHT: His own vice president called him a Nazi. So, we can't pick --

ZINKE: Oh, oh, come on. (INAUDIBLE).

SEAWRIGHT: We can't -- we can't pick and choose when it's convenient.

Can I just share something with you from -- from Charlie Kirk? "Hate speech does not exist legally in America. There's ugly speech. There's gross speech. There's evil speech. And all of it is protected by the First Amendment."

So, I think we're having a conversation around convenient speech versus what's free speech and not. And I think that's where people like me are frustrated. It's good for some, but not good for others, including the president.

DENT: See, hate speech, offensive as it is, is -- is protected. And it's often in the eye of the beholder.

CORNISH: Yes, but the beholder here is the attorney.

DENT: I -- I know. And I think she -- I think she needs to walk that statement back for a lot of reasons.

CORNISH: Yes. And she has. She has.

DENT: But --

CORNISH: So, she has said that basically it was never her intention to infringe upon free speech, but to talk about incitement, individuals inciting against others. And that's a real legal distinction.

ZINKE: Right. And I think that should be recognized.

[07:00:02]

But when you're advocating the violence, come down to the mall, rob, hate, steal, kill, and you're inciting the violence in an action, then yes, I think it should be a concern for us all. I don't think we should promulgate it. I don't think the media should be, you know, posting it. And I think the leadership should, should push back on it.

SEAWRIGHT: Including the president, right?

ZINKE: Everybody.

SEAWRIGHT: OK.

ZINKE: Everybody.

SEAWRIGHT: All right.

ZINKE: And look, look, look, you know, and, look, you know, we should have we -- we, you know, and we -- and we do here, right?

CORNISH: We do here.

ZINKE: I'm a Republican.

CORNISH: I am going to have to leave it here but you --

ZINKE: And then, look, let's have a conversation, right?

CORNISH: You are. And you're always welcome in the group chat, Congressman.

ZINKE: Thanks. It's really great (ph).

CORNISH: Thank you all for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts now.