Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
DOJ Seeking Grand Jury Indictment of Ex-FBI Chief James Comey; 'Rapturetok': False Doomsday Prophecy Goes Viral. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired September 25, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:00:12]
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump's Justice Department racing against the clock to indict James Comey. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Comey should hang his head in disgrace.
Comey is a dirty cop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: He's at the top of the president's enemies list. But can a grand jury be convinced to indict the former FBI director?
And a deadly shooting at a Texas ICE facility. Is the White House playing a dangerous blame game?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: We believe in free speech in the Trump administration. We are fighting every single day to protect it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Jimmy Kimmel not backing down as millions of Americans are still blocked from watching his show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can do this the easy way, or we can do it the hard way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty-two billion dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: And "South Park" strikes again. Has the FCC seen the new episode yet?
A statue of President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein on the National Mall. So, what happened to it just 24 hours later?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, I'm secretly hoping I might get raptured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: And what is the rapture? Why are so many people on TikTok preparing for it?
It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. Here is a live look at Capitol Hill.
Good morning, everybody. It's Thursday, September 25. I want to thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish, and here is where we start.
Any day now federal prosecutors may announce the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. Sources familiar with the investigation into Comey tell CNN that he's being investigated for lying to Congress over his handling of the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.
Now, here is some of what he told Congress back in 2020.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Who's telling the truth?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I can only speak to my testimony. I stand by what -- the testimony you summarized that I gave in May of 2017.
CRUZ: Your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak. And, Mr. McCabe, when -- if he says contrary, is not telling the truth. Is that correct?
COMEY: Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: That hearing was on September 30, 2020, and there's a statute of limitations on a perjury charge, about five years. So, prosecutors have just a matter of days left to convince a grand jury to indict Comey, and any charges would likely be cheered on by the White House.
Comey has been seen as a target for President Trump and his allies for years for opening the 2016 Russian probe in the first place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Comey and all this, you know, sleazebags.
Comey lied to everybody.
We fired Comey. That fraud.
That phony crooked Comey.
Comey should hang his head in disgrace.
Comey is a dirty cop.
Comey is a corrupt person.
One of the best things is firing James Comey's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of there.
He's a leaker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Joining me now in the group chat, Zach Wolf, CNN senior politics writer; Doug Heye, Republican strategist; and Maria Cardona, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist.
You guys, welcome to the chat.
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good morning.
CORNISH: Thanks for being here.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Audie.
CORNISH: All right, Zach, I would like to start with you, because you boldly call your newsletter the "What Matters" newsletter. OK?
ZACH WOLF, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER: Yes.
CORNISH: So, help me out here, because I feel like every few months, I am hearing about Jim Comey. My favorite most recently was what I call sand-gate. Do you remember this?
WOLF: Yes.
CORNISH: When he posted an image online where he wrote 86? I think? The president -- oh, there it is: 8647. People were like, investigate him here.
But this is very specific. It's going back to that investigation that alleged that Russia and the Trump campaign -- right -- That's not what they were able to prove.
WOLF: Right.
CORNISH: And what's happening now.
WOLF: Well, I mean, they're going back and looking at his testimony in 2020. This is ground that we should all be very familiar with over the last couple of years.
It's a 2020 investigation of the 2016 election. So, here we are going back.
You know, President Trump can't get this out of his head. And they keep going back to it.
I think the larger issue is the weaponization of the Justice Department element. There are so many of Trump's perceived enemies who are being investigated. So, is this the first shoe to drop?
[06:05:01]
There's been some -- you know, they put in a new person at the -- at the Eastern District of Virginia to -- to make sure, I think, that this prosecution occurred or that they tried to go to the grand jury.
So, if you are worried about the weaponization of the Justice Department, it's time to really pay attention.
CORNISH: OK. Who is worried about that?
CARDONA: I --
HEYE: We both raise hands. Sure.
CORNISH: Oh, really?
CARDONA: Yes.
CORNISH: So, talk about what you're seeing in this Comey moment.
HEYE: Look, Donald Trump has made it very clear he's going to get back at whatever his enemies are, real or perceived. You know, I'd argue, I think Maria would argue more strenuous than I, nobody was more beneficial to Donald Trump's campaign in 2026 [SIC] than James Comey.
CARDONA: Absolutely. Yes.
HEYE: But loyalty with Donald Trump is -- is a one-way street. You're loyal to him. He's not loyal to you. And it's not just about being thrown under the bus now. It may be thrown -- thrown into a courtroom.
CORNISH: I want to just play for you Stephen Miller, because he's accusing Comey of criminal behavior. Here's how he described it. This was just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Disgraced former FBI Director James Comey, who, of course, is corrupt; who of course, has been engaged in vast amounts of illicit and unlawful conduct; who, of course, was at the center of the Russia-gate attack and assault on American democracy.
There are so many people -- Comey, Clapper, Brennan, Monaco -- all across the government under previous administrations who have worked tirelessly to try to dismantle our democracy.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: I don't know. This -- no.
MILLER: And it has to lead somewhere to accountability. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Can you talk about that?
CARDONA: Yes. And, you know, I think you said it at the very beginning going into the segment. Trump's enemies list, James Comey at the very top. Check. This is what he's doing. This is what he's --
(CROSSTALK)
CORNISH: Although we should reference that. Actually, Donald Trump's Truth Social post he did that was focused on Pam Bondi also had a list of names.
CARDONA: Yes.
CORNISH: But he also was like, look, nothing is being done. Why aren't you doing more? Is this the more?
CARDONA: But this -- but this is also astounding in how he is saying the quiet part out loud. Like, he is literally announcing to the world, this is my enemies list, just the beginning of it. And DOJ, my DOJ. Why aren't you doing the job of going after my enemies? This is why I appointed you.
And to all of our points, this should be very concerning to every American. That's not what the Department of Justice is there to do.
CORNISH: But the process could play out. So, just to give an example, here in D.C., I know that I think Jeanine Pirro has put forth some cases, her office, and grand juries did not indict. It still has to go before actual people who look at the evidence. So why not let this play out?
CARDONA: Well, you mentioned that there's a new U.S. attorney. Right? Why is there a new one? Because the one that was there before refused to take this to the grand jury, because he saw this as a ridiculous, frivolous case that the grand jury would never indict.
But maybe you're right. Let's -- let's have this play out. But that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.
CORNISH: But over time, if this happens. You know, if this happens over time, is that part of the project of rebuilding trust, of which there are so many Republican voters who distrust these institutions? And so, you can at least say, look, this is what we did.
HEYE: I think it's more personal than that for Donald Trump. And if you look at polling, Donald Trump, his overall numbers are low, but his numbers on specific issues, he does much better than Democrats on. On the economy, on crime, on issues like that.
This is where you would normally want your president, your candidate, to be focused on. Donald Trump is talking about what he wants to talk about, first and foremost.
CORNISH: OK.
WOLF: But one issue that no voter really cares about anymore is the 2016 election.
CARDONA: Amen to that. Yes.
WOLF: I mean, it's ancient history.
HEYE: Or James Comey.
CARDONA: Or James Comey.
CORNISH: Sorry, James Comey.
OK, group chat, stay with me.
If you want to read more, also, of Zach's writing on other topics, subscribe to the what -- "What Matters" newsletter. That's on CNN online. It comes out every Wednesday, every weekday.
Coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, a gunman opens fire at an ICE facility in Texas. What investigators are learning about the motive, as some jump to the blame game.
Plus, motivation for a deal. The threat from the White House if Congress cannot stop a government shutdown.
And ride safe and keep it cute. Cardi B's got a new side hustle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDI B, RAPPER: We're walking here. Steps are for stepping, not sitting. Move it, Bucko!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:14:03]
CORNISH: It's almost 15 minutes past the hour. And here is your morning roundup.
Jimmy Kimmel's return from suspension drew more than 6 million viewers, more than tripling his typical audience, according to ABC.
The network says that makes this the most watched episode of his show in more than a decade.
And the White House Budget Office threatening mass firings if the government shuts down. Both parties are still far apart on a new spending bill that could keep the government open. Trump canceled a meeting with top Democrats.
One of the issues at the center of this debate: whether to extend subsidies for the Affordable Care Act. Lawmakers have just five days to make a deal.
And Cardi B once said, there is nothing in this world that she wants more than checks. Well, now she's got a new payday coming. You're going to hear the Bronx native's voice over the speakers of the subway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDI B: These trains don't move without you, so make sure you pay that fare and keep it real. Stop subway surfing. Ride safe, keep it cute, and keep it moving. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Her partnership with the MTA comes after Cardi walked through subway cars to sell copies of her new album, "Am I the Drama," which dropped earlier this month.
And after the break on CNN THIS MORNING, a statue of President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein holding hands was taken down. Officials said it was too tall. Is this a violation of free speech?
Plus, it's the end of the world as we know it. Or at least they thought so. Why everyone on TikTok was preparing for the rapture this week.
And good morning to St. Louis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:19:57]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we going up, Willy Wonka in the glass elevator style? Or is it more like a shaky Spirit Airlines flight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are ready for the rapture. I don't know if you guys know this, but these girls are definitely being beamed straight to heaven.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Jesus is coming, then, like, do I have to go into work?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, if you're seeing this, the rapture didn't happen, at least not to you. And yes, you have to go to work.
It's the latest Internet end-times obsession. And here's where it started. A prophecy in July from a South African pastor. He believed he had evidence pointing to the date of the rapture, which was earlier this week.
He was wrong. And he's not the first. History is filled with failed apocalypse predictions. We all remember the Mayan calendar ending in 2012. Judgment day was supposed to come in 2011. There was Y2k in 2000.
And the thing is, doomsday prophecies date as far back as 1666. Christians feared the world would end then, because 666 is a sign of the beast.
So, joining me now to talk about end-time obsessions. We've got an expert, Steve Wohlberg. He's a speaker and director of White Horse Media. He's also the author of a book called "End Time Delusions," which talks all about these rapture teachings and where they came from.
Steve, thanks so much for being with us.
STEVE WOHLBERG, SPEAKER/DIRECTOR OF WHITE HORSE MEDIA: Yes. Good morning, Audie. Thank you for having me. It's been quite a couple of days with all of this TikTok rapture craze, so thanks for having me.
CORNISH: Why do you think this caught on, in particular? Right? I mean, it kicked off earlier in the summer, and until all -- here, we're here in the fall, and people have tinfoil hats on their cats.
WOHLBERG: Well, I think it started with this South African pastor. He apparently thought that God was talking to him. And he started, you know, making videos. And it went viral. And I think it's just unfortunate.
Human nature tends to extremes. And there's so many things going on in the world right now. People believe we're in apocalyptic times. And they're -- you know, unfortunately, they've been pulled into the latest craze.
And yet Jesus said, clearly, nobody knows the day or the hour. So, it's -- it's a false movement, and now it's behind us, really.
CORNISH: Can you talk more about the actual biblical teachings just to give people some context about what's in there?
WOHLBERG: Yes. The Bible is very clear that Jesus went to heaven at the end of his life and that he's coming back again. And throughout the history of Christianity, the basic biblical truth is that he will return at the very end. The last day. Visibly. It will be loud, cataclysmic. Every eye will see him. He'll be coming with billions of angels. And it's not going to be a secret where Christians just disappear.
But unfortunately, in the 1800s, this -- a new teaching started working its way into Christian thinking. It was connected to Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby. It worked its way into the footnotes of the Scofield Reference Bible.
And then it was brought into the American protestant seminaries like Dallas Theological Seminary. Hal Lindsey in the 1970s popularized it with his book "The Late Great Planet Earth."
And then the "Left Behind" novels. It just took off, coauthored by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.
I have a chapter in my book called "The Path of the Virus," where I trace this, you know, this intro into Christianity. And now it's just become just an incredible craze.
And yet, the Bible does not teach disappearing Christians; that we're just going to vanish. It teaches that Jesus is coming back again. Every eye will see him at the very end.
CORNISH: Yes.
WOHLBERG: It's not going to be secret. No one's going to wake up and wonder, where did all the Christians go?
CORNISH: So, why do you call it a virus?
WOHLBERG: Well, that was just a term I used in my book to -- to illustrate that it's -- it's a foreign teaching that has that worked its way into Christianity.
It wasn't taught in the first 1800 years of Christian history. The Christian church and the Bible basically teaches, again, that he's going to come at the end. It's going to be loud, visible. Christians aren't just going to vanish with a poof, leaving their clothes behind or their false teeth behind.
And so, I call this -- I just use this as an illustration that this teaching is a virus that has infected Christian thinking of the end times. And this is the latest evidence of that virus.
CORNISH: You said something at the start of this conversation about people feeling like its apocalyptic times. And I know it seems pretty obvious: if there's social upheaval, if there's violence, economic stability. Is that what we see in history, as well? And what is it about what's going on now that you think has drawn people to this kind of moment?
WOHLBERG: Sure. Well, in the book of Matthew, Chapter 24, Jesus gave a list of what we could call signs of things that would be happening and trending before he returns.
And many of these things have happened throughout history, but I think people just sense that they're intensifying. There's more natural disasters. There's more immorality. There's -- there's just increased stress upon the Earth.
[06:25:04]
And there's just a lot of people that are looking around, and they're thinking, you know, something's coming. Something's happening. Something big is around the corner. And they are turning to the Bible to try to figure things out. An unfortunately --
CORNISH: But isn't it across cultures? I mean, what's the difference between them and the Mayans? WOHLBERG: Yes. Yes, that's right. It's -- it's been happening for a
long time. This is not new. There's been, you know, Y2K, 2012, the Mayan calendar.
People tend to just gravitate towards some sensational teaching that says it's coming on a certain day. But Jesus made it very clear in Matthew 24, verse 36 that no man knows the day or the hour.
So, unfortunately, you have people that you know, pick dates, set them, and the result is that they result in disillusionment. People are -- you know, they believe it, and then it doesn't happen. So, they give up their faith. It gives Christianity and the Bible a bad name. And it's just -- it's an unfortunate tragedy.
CORNISH: All right. Steve Wohlberg, he's the author of a book called "End Time Delusions." Thank you for talking with us.
WOHLBERG: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.
CORNISH: Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, playing the blame game. Is the White House putting politics ahead of the facts?
Plus, Kamala Harris's book tour interrupted by protesters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:30:00]
