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CNN This Morning

FBI Examines Writings in ICE Shooting; Jim Rutenberg is Interviewed about Kimmel; Apple Pauses "The Savant"; Park Service Removes Statue. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired September 25, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:16]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.

Any day now, former FBI Director James Comey could be facing a federal indictment. Sources tell CNN the DOJ is asking a grand jury to bring perjury charges against Comey for his testimony before a Senate committee back on September 30, 2020. The statute of limitations on a perjury charge is five years.

Today, President Trump is expected to sign a deal on TikTok. It would facilitate the sale of the app from a Chinese based company, ByteDance, to American investors. Under the agreement, the app's algorithm would be run by Oracle. ByteDance will retain less than 20 percent stake in TikTok.

Former Vice President Kamala Harris interrupted by pro-Palestinian protesters on the first night of her book tour in New York. She used the moment to say what's happening to the Palestinian people, quote, "breaks my heart," and blamed Trump for giving the Israeli government what she called a blank check.

And this morning, two people who were in custody at a Dallas ice facility are in critical condition after being shot. Another detainee is dead. The Trump administration is investigating as, quote, "targeted violence." FBI Director Kash Patel posted these images of bullet casings found near the shooter yesterday. One of them appearing to read "anti ICE." Sources say the shooter is identified as 29-year- old Joshua Yan. He died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Speaking to CNN last night, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said the shooter wasn't targeting anything specifically.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, DHS SECRETARY: We know that there was bullet holes all over the building. It wasn't just targeted at one specific area or through a window, that he showered the building with -- with bullets and was very much focused on hitting anyone that he could inside and making sure that they were victims of his attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining us now, former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Juliette Kayyem.

Juliette, thanks for being with us.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Thank you for having me.

CORNISH: First, let's just start with the facts of what is known or has been revealed about the shooter. What can you tell us?

KAYYEM: So, we -- we don't know much in terms of -- of what sort of prompted him to do this on this day. He is described as sort of a drifter. He just had no serious job. He has one criminal conviction related to marijuana in 2016. And so -- and no political involvement. I mean he's not identified with any party. His friends that we've interviewed don't describe him as politically engaged.

What we do know is, he's a big gamer. And he's been living in that world for a long period of time. On one website he may -- he may have racked up about 10,000 hours of gaming time. So, he's -- he's living in another world and then enters the real world for this horrible crime and killing, which is the fourth against an ICE facility recently.

CORNISH: Following up on what you were just saying, the acting ICE director, Todd Lyons, he called this shooting his worst nightmare. And I want to share a little more about what he said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD LYONS, ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: I've never seen threats on law enforcement, specifically ICE, increase the way it is. You know, we're up over 1,000 percent assaults on officers right now. And really just a lot of the -- the talk that's out there, a lot of the rhetoric, is just the violence directed towards law enforcement officers just trying to do their job. And it just keeps -- just keeping seeing in increase.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can you talk about that? You mentioned that this is not the first, at least, attempt of an attack and ICE in the middle of a rapid expansion.

[06:35:03]

What are the concerns?

KAYYEM: That's exactly right. So, there's a rapid expansion, growth in terms of hiring and tremendous pressure from the White House to get numbers. So, you're seeing, as we know, these are big debates in this country. A lot of division, in particular in cities, about what ICE is doing. That leads to -- to two things. One is legitimate, which is criticism. In a democracy, communities, people have a right to criticize ICE's expansive mandate because they clearly aren't just going after criminals and violent criminals, they're going after people who, I think, were not expected to be part of this major mass deportation.

The second is the illegitimate, which is the violence or threats of violence against ICE officers. And that is increasing as well.

The link between those two is not all -- you know, is not direct in most cases. Lots of people can oppose ICE and never get to violence. In this case, you see someone who didn't seem at all involved with -- with ICE or anti-ICE testament. In fact, on his casing, he use -- he says anti ICE, which isn't even the language of the politics of our time, which it tends to be abolish ICE, and then goes to violence. That linkage is -- is something that people like me are studying because it's inexplicable at this stage, someone who is not aligned with a political movement performing something that obviously has political consequences and is unjustified, period. You can't go after ICE agents.

CORNISH: Yes, but --

KAYYEM: I would say one thing, which is -- go ahead.

CORNISH: I just want to play one thing for you, Juliette, just because some of the things you're saying about motivation and the questions people have.

KAYYEM: Ys.

CORNISH: J.D. Vance, the vice president, is out there talking about what he thinks the potential motivations are. And I want to dissect this with you because, obviously, it's the vice president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In Dallas, Texas, and ICE facility, an Immigrations and Customs Enforcement facility was opened fire upon by a violent left wing extremist. A person who wrote anti ICE messaging on their bullets. And there's some evidence that we have that's not yet public, but we know this person was politically motivated. They were politically motivated to go after law enforcement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: I'm playing that for you because he says it's information that's not yet public. And what are you going to be listening for in the coming days?

KAYYEM: That's exactly right.

So, it's -- it's a very nuanced distinction. Someone can perform something that is politically motivated, in this case unjustifiably, you know, targeting an ICE facility, but not be aligned with the political movement. If the White House and -- and J.D. Vance, they -- they seem to suggest that there's evidence that he's part of a network of left groups that are promoting violence, as compared to progressives, right wing -- conservatives and left wing groups opposing some of ICE's actions.

And that's the linkage we have to be super careful about in a democracy. Someone can have a criticism of the White House and certainly of ICE's actions, as many of us do, but that doesn't -- that doesn't lead necessarily to violence. In this instance it did. But to blame the group is a leap that -- that we -- we haven't seen yet, at least in this case. We also haven't seen it in the Charlie Kirk assassination place. We have radicalization going on in this country, aligned with a political sentiment, but these guys are not in the world of politics. They're in a different world that you and I -- we're not even in this world of gaming and memes and irony. And we need to figure out why are they becoming radicalized for violence because at least what we know so far, it's not aligned with a political group.

CORNISH: OK. Juliette Kayyem, we're going to be on this investigation. Thanks so much.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

CORNISH: Next on CNN THIS MORNING, was it really a permit issue? That's the reason that the statue of President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein was removed. Is that just an excuse?

Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I track (ph) people who are planning attacks. My job is pretending to think like them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Apple TV postponing the release of a new show. Why the lead actress says it's not the right move.

And "Jimmy Kimmel Live" is still not live for many ABC stations.

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[06:44:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMELL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": During our show, for most of the country, we are still not on the air on a number of ABC affiliates, including Seattle, Portland, Washington, D.C., Nashville, New Orleans, Saint Louis, Salt Lake City. About 30 more. And if you are watching from one of those cities, please know that the person you are looking at right now is not me, OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: "Jimmy Kimmel Live" back on the air for a second night, but for many people, he wasn't live at all. Companies such as Sinclair Broadcasting and Nexstar Media Group have both decided to continue preempting Kimmel's show. Those companies control ABC affiliated stations that broadcast to about 23 percent of American households, potentially giving them leverage in a fight with ABC over Kimmel's future.

In a statement, Nexstar said it's keeping the show in the dark to create a, quote, "constructive dialog in the markets we serve."

[06:45:01]

We want to find out if there is another reason, given that both Nexstar and Sinclair are both exploring acquisitions of other local stations. So, they actually would need approval from the Trump administration and the FCC.

Joining me now, Jim Rutenberg, a writer at large for "The New York Times."

Jim, thanks for being with us this morning.

JIM RUTENBERG, WRITER AT LARGE, "NEW YORK TIMES" AND "NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE": Thanks so much for having me.

CORNISH: So, first, just talk about these potential deals and how the FCC would be involved in them.

RUTENBERG: Well, the big one that has really kind of shown its face in this controversy around Kimmel is Nexstar is seeking to merge with another big station group called Tegna. Now, when these stations, when they -- anything they want to do basically is regulated by the Federal Communications Commission. The Federal Communications Commission controls the licenses that stations need to broadcast. The big networks like ABC News -- ABC, they rely on these stations to get seen around the country. They have deals with these stations. So, these licenses are very important to the big networks.

And so their business, before the FCC, with the proposed merger, gives the FCC a lot of power. And that's what, again, really came to bear in -- in this -- their decision not to show Kimmel.

CORNISH: Right. And, of course, this all, in a way, kicked off with the head of the FCC making these public comments about doing it the easy way or the hard way. And I want to play for you something more recent, what the vice president is saying about what the FCC chair did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What people will say is, well, you know, didn't the FCC commissioner put a tweet out that said something bad? Well, compare that, the FCC commissioner making a joke on social media, what is the government action that the Trump administration has engaged in to kick Jimmy Kimmel or anybody off -- else off the air? Zero.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can you talk about that?

RUTENBERG: Well, certainly there are members of his party who don't agree with that. Senator Ted Cruz thought that what the head of the FCC, Brendan Carr, had said was chilling. Senator Cruz likened it to this easy way or hard way line you said, likened it to a -- sort of a mob boss. So, their -- their party is not unified on this.

And, in fact, through my entire life, that party always had big problems with the FCC weighing in on anything regarding content. And, of course, it wasn't just tweets. It was Brendan Carr spoken more than once about the need for these public broadcast -- these -- these stations to remember they have FCC licenses. He said -- Brendan Carr himself said, I wasn't threatening. This is all being overblown.

So, you know, we'll see. These stations had their own reasons, their own constituencies who were upset about Kimmel's commentary about Charlie Kirk's assassin, which is what started this all. But you've got the FCC in the mix now. And the FCC has shown that it's willing -- under this chairman has shown that it's willing to mix its view of content, his view of content, the president's view of content, in with decision making around mergers. We also witnessed, I'll take you back a few weeks ago when SkyDance, a major media company, bought Paramount, which owns CBS. They needed FCC approval for their merger and CBS' coverage of the president, and their coverage in general, came up in that discussion.

CORNISH: Can I just ask one last thing? Aren't these companies generally risk averse, right? I don't think of big media conglomerates as wanting to take big risks. In a minute we're about to talk about Apple pulling Jessica Chastain's series about extremism. It just feels like, in this atmosphere, they don't really want to make waves.

RUTENBERG: You know, yes, perhaps. But I'll say that television stations, FCC, the word license, the word license coming from the FCC in a negative connotation is always going to make television stations of any era nervous about, is the government ever going to get -- want to take my license away? Again, Brendan Carr saying, well, that's not what he was doing. A lot of people read it that way. Perhaps it's good he clarified what he meant. We'd all love to talk to him more about it. But this is all the kind of talk we haven't heard in a very, very long time. You almost have to go back to -- or you do have to go back to Nixon to really hear it in these terms.

CORNISH: Jim Rutenberg, writer at large for "The New York Times," thank you for being with us.

RUTENBERG: Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: So, as I mentioned, Apple is hitting pause on this new series. It's called "The Savant." And Jessica Chastain, she's the lead actress and the executive producer, is not on board.

[06:50:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy isn't just planning violence, he's out to make a statement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of a statement?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kind that history refers to with a month and a date.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: All right, so the show features Chastain playing an investigator who's trying to thwart online hate groups. And it features sniper scenes and bombing and ambushes. And following the assassination of Charlie Kirk, Apple has changed its plans, telling CNN it made the decision to put the release on hold, quote, after careful consideration. Chastain disagrees with this move. She was writing on Instagram, quote, "I wish this show wasn't so relevant. Unfortunately, it is. 'The Savant' is about the heroes who work every day to stop violence before it happens, and honoring their courage feels more urgent than ever." Chastain lists recent events, including January 6th, the attempt on President Trump's life, and the more than 300 school shootings in the last five years.

The group chat is back.

So, this kind of ties together two stories today, right? We had the ICE shooting at the top of the show, and then also this conversation with Jim just about the media and whether or not they're prepared to have this conversation with us. What do you guys think of this decision by Apple?

ZACHARY WOLF, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER: Well, I mean, you know, is this the kind of thing where they just shelve the program or it comes back in a couple of months? That's -- that's one thing to think about with all of this.

But, you know, I don't think it's crazy to, in -- in a -- in a heated moment, especially after the Kirk assassination, to maybe cool off for a minute. Like, I don't see a groundswell of public support for, you know, a TV show that nobody's seen in the way that you see, like, Kimmel. I'm not sure it's a free speech issue so much as just maybe we should pause. But we'll have to see what happens.

CORNISH: Yes, I was saying to someone that I remember after 9/11 there were all kinds of things that got shelved and delayed because -- out of concerns.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Except for, I think that it actually might cause the opposite. I had no idea that the show was even coming out. And then I went to, like, you know, do the research. It sounds like a really good show. I agree with Jessica Chastain, it's completely relevant. The fact that they're pulling it makes it now more of an issue about when it's now going to air and what that will mean. You know what I mean? Like, it puts more tension and kind of more heat on it, except, you know, instead of them having just put it out there.

CORNISH: Yes.

CARDONA: Because it is of the day. And -- and the show, from what I understand, doesn't delve into politics at all. It doesn't say one side did this, the other side did that. It just is focusing on what we are facing as a country, which is a real, real issue.

CORNISH: Well, "Variety" agrees with you. At least somebody in "Variety" was posting that postponing "The Savant" is a huge mistake. They say "it's clear that "T Savant' is precisely the type of show America needs right now." But here's the thing, it says, "it looks at a sector of mostly white male individuals who believe that America belongs to them, fueled by hate, bigotry, xenophobia, misogyny, who talk cruelly candidly online about enacting harm and violence to others."

What do you think is about this show that's raising Apple's concern?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think lawyers are raising concerns with Apple. And they see -- they've seen the news of how any political violence that happens gets weaponized immediately by -- by either -- either side that wants to attack their -- their opponents, and that this could be something that -- that people latch on to. So, I think there are lawyers -- lawyers always have concerns. My guess is this was a very lawyerly decision.

CORNISH: All right, you guys, I want to talk about something else because while we were sleeping "South Park" dropped a new episode. This is their first since the FCC chair, Brendan Carr's comments led to Jimmy Kimmel's show getting pulled off the air for a few days. And, yes, they went there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will the head of the FCC be OK, doctor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His bones are healing, so he may regain full range of motion. But if the toxoplasmosis parasite gets to his brain, I'm afraid he may lose his freedom of speech.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh no (ph).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: A lot going on there.

It's -- it's crude. It's the vibe of the show. But we also want to talk about it as a kind of form of protest. These guys have been very vocal against the administration. And I was thinking about this statue of President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein holding hands on The National Mall. The statue is entitled "Best Friends Forever," and then the Interior Department went and took it down because they said it wasn't compliant with the permit that was issued. And the statue was placed on The National Mall on Tuesday by a man named Patrick. And he's a member of a group called The Secret Handshake. And he was telling CNN that he thinks it's a free speech issue and that the -- "the statue doesn't matter. It's what it represents and it's being broken down that what -- that is what matters."

I feel like here and there, in the arts and culture world, there are ways of talking about this administration that could very much be seen as protest. And I'm wondering if you guys are noticing it as well.

[06:55:03]

HEYE: What I notice is that statement is almost word for word the same as what Jimmy Kimmel said.

CORNISH: Oh.

HEYE: He said, my show isn't important. What's important is that my show exists.

CARDONA: Yes.

HEYE: That statement is very similar. And for a lot of conservatives, when they hear late night comedy, comedy is sort of forgotten at that point. It's -- they become forms of protest, political rallies. You're there to stand and applaud Stephen Colbert or Jimmy Kimmel's joke, not laugh at it.

CARDONA: And I also think that it -- what the Interior Department sounds iffy to me, they're the ones who gave the permit. When you do these things, you have to describe exactly what the statue looks like, how tall it is, how big it is. And they're saying, oh no, well, it was too tall. I think that's --

CORNISH: Well, I'm not going to judge that because I don't know.

CARDONA: I think that's --

CORNISH: I mean, it's a protest. I don't know what they put on this application.

CARDONA: So -- right. But -- but --

CORNISH: They're trying to make a point and they did.

CARDONA: That's right.

CORNISH: And, in a way, have gotten more attention for it.

CARDONA: Exactly. I think that's the point right there.

WOLF: A more positive view is, the statue got up in the first place. I mean it's right down the street is a large banner of Donald Trump's face that looks like, you know, propaganda that is government sponsored. And here this statue goes up.

I drove by it the other day. It's right in front of the Capitol Building. It's kind of incredible that it got there in the first place. And, you know, it should have stayed up for -- I think it had an extra couple of days on its permit. But we are in a society where you can still put a statue of the president in front of the Capitol Building.

CORNISH: Oh, this is images of it dismantled, which they really were through.

WOLF: They really dismantled it.

CORNISH: Yes.

CARDONA: But, you're right, taking it down actually puts more emphasis on it and gives the reason why it was up there in the first place more light and, you know, more conversation.

CORNISH: Yes. I mean in Boston there's a group that projects onto buildings.

CARDONA: Yes.

CORNISH: Language from the Constitution. I'm thinking about how when the president landed in the U.K., on Windsor Castle --

CARDONA: Yes.

CORNISH: Not Windsor Castle, but there was a projection of a photo of him and Epstein.

WOLF: Yes.

CARDONA: That was incredible.

CORNISH: It's -- it feels like it's trying to make it so that they can't look away.

HEYE: No doubt.

CORNISH: Does that work?

HEYE: I think it works to a particular audience.

CORNISH: Yes.

HEYE: And it's an audience that wants to hear that. So -- so, many --

CORNISH: But it's for them, right? Like they put it in a place -- most average people aren't going to be going to The National Mall.

HEYE: It's not --

CORNISH: But the White House motorcade will drive by these places.

HEYE: I think it tends -- tends to be more for the base. I hear a lot of Democrats who say, yes, Gavin Newsom is doing exactly what he should be doing by acting like Donald Trump. But those are mostly the Democrats who lived outside of Texas who bought Beto O'Rourke shirts. They didn't get Beto O'Rrourke in the Senate like they wanted to.

CARDONA: But I also think it focuses on the issue, which is freedom of speech. And so, yes, you're right, this makes people feel good. I think it's more than just about the base, though, because this has now become a conversation about the Constitution, about freedom of speech.

CORNISH: Yes.

CARDONA: And so, I do think that that is breaking through in a way that is good for Americans to remind them exactly what the Constitution means and exactly what their rights are that could be taken away.

CORNISH: Right. Could this be -- that was interesting from a Republican. It's like we have seen the red line. Like, there's a bunch of other things you could be fighting about. But the thing that would suddenly unite Ted Cruz and Jimmy Kimmel is a red line.

CARDONA: Right.

CORNISH: And Joe Rogan and whoever, all of these different figures are saying, there's a lot of things we're going to put up with. But as Americans, this is the thing --

CARDONA: Yes.

CORNISH: That feels you can be the most aggressive. And are we going to see people pushing that button more --

WOLF: Right.

CORNISH: Because that's the one they can get public support for, in a way?

CARDONA: Right.

WOLF: It's also the thing that I think, for Trump in particular, has been the clearest bit of hypocrisy from the campaign when he was talking about free speech to now, you know, being assaulted for -- assaulting free speech. Like, that was a switch.

CORNISH: Yes.

WOLF: And you saw that in J.D. Vance, that clip you played. He looked pretty defensive when he was talking about that. So, it's something that I think deep down he probably feels pretty strongly about. And having to defend himself on it is, you know, gets a little touchy.

CARDONA: Yes.

CORNISH: OK. So, we've done a lot of pop culture things today. What else is in your group chats?

Maria.

CARDONA: So, my daughter got the chance to go to Bad Bunny's last concert in Puerto Rico this past weekend.

CORNISH: Wow

CARDONA: And it focused on just the hundreds of millions of dollars that he has injected into the Puerto Rican economy. And now he's going off to a global tour that does not include any U.S. cities because of ICE. But my daughter wore a flower, a red, big flower, that is the national Puerto Rican flower.

CORNISH: Yes.

CARDONA: Get what the name is flor de maga (ph).

CORNISH: Well, in the meantime, Bad Bunny is going to be on "SNL." I'm sure that's going to be in my group chat.

CARDONA: There you go.

CORNISH: Doug.

HEYE: So, I'm just back from London, where I attended meetings for the defense, security and resiliency bank. Basically, multilateral, multinational multi banks to try and establish its own bank to help countries get to the 5 percent security level. It could be a win for the Trump administration, a win for the west, and a real loss for China and Russia.

CORNISH: That is a lot in a group chat.

HEYE: Yes.

CORNISH: I need to see that -- that link (ph).

And, Zach, you?

WOLF: I'm not going to lie. Most of what's been in my group chat this week are "Onion" headlines about RFK and vaccines. There have been some really good ones.

[07:00:01]

But the other thing I wanted to talk about was this Theo Von element.

CORNISH: Oh, yes.

WOLF: You know, the -- you can sort of, between him asking DHS to take down a video. And then Joe Rogan. So, you really hear the manosphere sort of take a step back from -- from MAGA land at the moment.

CORNISH: Yes. Right. And retain their independence perhaps.

WOLF: Yes.

CORNISH: We're going to see how their policies shift over the next couple of months.

You guys, thank you for sharing what's in your chats.

CARDONA: Thanks, Audie.

CORNISH: Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. And "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.