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CNN This Morning
Gaza Agreement Reached; Tal Axelrod is Interviewed about Charlie Kirk; Mark Bray is Interviewed about Antifa; Nobel Peace Prize Announced Tomorrow. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired October 09, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": If you're watching this on the TV at an airport bar, you might want to order another drink because there's a good chance your flight is delayed.
The FAA is reporting delays in Chicago, Boston, Houston, Vegas, Xanadu, Atlantis, Wakanda, and Emerald Cities. Thats right, the flying monkeys have been grounded.
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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: And if you're still there, get a mimosa, because six more air traffic towers, including D.C., Denver and Orlando were short staffed yesterday due to shutdown sickouts. So, what will this morning bring?
Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.
It's half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.
If the government doesn't reopen soon, nearly 170 small airports across the country could go dark this weekend. The Transportation secretary says funding for the essential air service will run out on Sunday. That program actually helps connect rural airports to bigger cities, and it ensures access to medical treatments and commercial goods.
A month's long manhunt is over. The last inmate from that New Orleans jail break in May, well, they've been captured. Derrick Groves arrested in Atlanta after a standoff Wednesday. He blew a kiss to the camera as they were loading him into the cruiser. Groves was serving time for second degree murder, among other charges.
And in just a few hours, the Israeli Security Cabinet is set to meet to consider the ceasefire agreement reached in Egypt last night. The plan includes the release of hostages in Gaza in exchange for Palestinian prisoners and the withdrawal of Israeli forces.
After a bloody two years, the news has been cause for celebration in Gaza and in Israel.
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CORNISH: Cheers throughout the streets of Gaza, where some hope is finally emerging.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you guys have to say to President Trump?
CROWD: Thank you. Thank you.
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CORNISH: And former hostages and their loved ones thanking President Trump and even popping champagne in Israel with the news that some of the remaining captives will come home soon.
Here are the issues that remain unresolved, including the disarmament of Hamas, additional security guarantees to prevent a future conflict, and what's in store for the future of Gaza. In an interview with Fox News, President Trump says, well, that's being worked out.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think you're going to see people getting along and you'll see Gaza being rebuilt. We're forming a council that -- the council of peace, we think it's going to be called, and it's going to be, you know, very powerful.
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CORNISH: Joining us now to discuss, Bobby Ghosh, columnist and geopolitical analyst, and Joel Rubin, former deputy assistant secretary of state.
Bobby, good morning. Thank you for joining us. I want to start with you because Hamas has actually handed over a list of Palestinian prisoners that they want released. And in a statement, they are urging negotiators to compel Israel, and I want to show you this, "to fully implement the agreement's requirements and not allow it to evade or delay the implementation of what has been agreed upon."
What do you make of how Arab leaders in the region have helped facilitate this moment?
BOBBY GHOSH, COLUMNIST AND GEOPOLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they've played a big role. The Qataris, the Egyptians and the Turks have been very instrumental in getting us to this place. There's been a lot of pressure on Hamas to stop -- to commit to the end -- to the end of the violence, to commit to releasing the hostages quickly. We would not have reached this place if it had not been for the contributions of all of these countries putting pressure on Hamas, first and foremost, and then also putting quite a lot of pressure on the American president, on Donald Trump, to endorse this deal.
They've been holding this position consistently for quite a long time. They've been calling for a cessation of violence for quite a long time. And now, I suspect, all over the Middle East, fingers are going to be very, very tightly crossed, not least among those negotiators who are going to hope that they can now go from the release of hostages to the next step, which is allowing aid to go in.
CORNISH: Yes.
GHOSH: And then there will be questions and discussions in those -- among those Arab countries about what role they will play in ensuring that the peace is preserved and in starting to rebuild these images we are seeing of destruction of Gaza to contribute to the aid and reconstruction of that and (INAUDIBLE).
CORNISH: Right. And we're still -- I hear that aid trucks -- we were hearing from our reporter, Nic Robertson, that aid trucks were at the ready. But I also understand, at this point, the IDF had made great gains into Gaza, upwards of more than 45 percent.
So, Joel, for you, can you talk to me about what we will be watching for from Israel and from its security cabinet?
JOEL RUBIN, AUTHOR, "THE BRIEFING BOOK" ON SUBSTACK: Yes, Audie. Look, first of all, this is a strategic win for Israel. And I believe that Israelis are going to see it that way, in that they have achieved their primary initial goals, which is to get the hostages out and to decimate Hamas. And so, the security cabinet, they'll likely pass this. It's quite possible we'll see a couple of no votes from the far- right, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich. But we will -- we've already seen the opposition in the Knesset, Yair Lapid being the leading voice, saying he would provide a cushion to the Netanyahu government if he lost votes, broadly speaking. So, we're going to see a lot of support overall in Israel.
Also, we might see President Trump go to Israel as well in the next couple of days to speak. And then when the hostages come out, that will create new momentum. But to Bobby's point, then it has to be capitalized on because Gaza will not be different a few days from now, as it is today, Hamas will still be in place to a certain extent, and the Gazan people will not have a strong future if Hamas controls what happens on the ground. The money will not flow, Israel will not maintain itself outside the borders. And so, that's going to be the hardest part of the next phase.
CORNISH: I want to ask one more thing, which is, the president's role in all this. People have talked about his relationship building with the Qataris.
RUBIN: Yes.
CORNISH: They've also talked about him, frankly, kind of criticizing Netanyahu, especially after that attack in Doha.
Bobby, do you think that that was a tipping point?
GHOSH: I think Trump had been growing frustrated at his inability to bring these final pieces of the puzzle together for several months. And, yes, the Israeli attack on -- in Qatar, in Qatari territory, in Doha, at the capital, was a an inflection point. Trump, at that point, really lost his cool and lost his patience with Netanyahu.
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He said so publicly. And Netanyahu, at that point, realized that, as to Joel's point, that he had to take the win. And from his point of view, of course, it is a win. He would not have agreed to the deal if he had not already achieved quite a lot of what he was hoping to achieve in Gaza.
But, yes, Trump was the person who put his finger on the -- on the scale throughout the process. And that we -- we don't really get to this place without the American president being a major --
CORNISH: Yes.
GHOSH: And now, going forward, he's going to have to be the key guarantor. He's put his name on this deal. He's portraying this as a Trump deal.
CORNISH: Yes.
GHOSH: So, its success or failure will directly impact his prestige in the region and in the wider world.
CORNISH: Yes. Well, I know many people are savoring this moment at least. We're going to be following the rest of the day.
Bobby Ghosh and Joel Rubin, thank you so much.
RUBIN: Thanks, Audie.
GHOSH: Thanks, Audie.
CORNISH: OK, I want to follow up on the domestic politics here, because Israel has been at the heart of an ongoing debate roiling Turning Point USA and the supporters of the late Charlie Kirk. Conservative podcaster Candace Owens has spent weeks alleging that in the days before his death Kirk had grown disillusioned with pro-Israel donors who were upset with his links to Tucker Carlson. She shared a text message thread to that effect, and in it Kirk says he has, quote, "no choice but to leave the pro-Israel cause." Kirk's best friend and producer confirming the texts are real.
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ANDREW KOLVET, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW": I just want to address it head on because, you know, that was a text grab, a screen grab, that I had shared with people. So, it -- it is authentic. And I want to go into it because I actually am really excited that the -- the truth is out there.
The reason I have -- I didn't share that screen grab publicly is because it was a private -- it was a private exchange.
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CORNISH: Owens claims Kirk had been under immense pressure and had recently changed his views on Israel.
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CANDACE OWENS, HOST, "CANDACE": Charlie Kirk's perspective on Israel was not starting to shift. It had shifted entirely, OK. There are no ifs and there are no ands and there are no buts about it. Israel knew that. Turning Point USA knew that because Charlie was explicit.
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CORNISH: So, this is a significant moment for a movement revealed to be deeply divided on Israel, along with ongoing criticism of anti- Semitism.
Tal Axelrod with "Axios" joins the group chat.
And I'm bringing you back, because the last time we talked, I was like, what's going on, right? And I think people were looking at Candace Owens in particular, who obviously was grieving, but was very fiery on this issue. And it helped spawn a whole world of conspiracy theories that at a certain point Netanyahu himself came out to rebut any -- any sort of visions that somehow Israel was involved in Kirk's death.
How has this moved forward since then? Like, what's significant about this moment?
TAL AXELROD, REPORTER, "AXIOS": Well, we just see a bunch more conspiracy theories. It's really gaining traction online that somehow there was some kind of Israeli involvement here.
And Candace is walking a fine line. She's saying -- she insists, I never said Israel killed him, but this, quote, "betrayal" will have, quote, "international consequences." The betrayal that Charlie Kirk supposedly suffered.
So, it's really just taking off that there's some foul play here on an international scale. And as time goes on, this is really just a magnet for more and more conspiracy theories.
CORNISH: Yes, but it's also a real conversation about what is the position on the right or this part of the right on Israel itself and the war in Gaza.
I want to play for you more from Kirk's producer, who tried to clarify what he believes that the late activist's stance was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDREW KOLVET, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW": What is the truth about the way Charlie felt about Israel? Well, it's complicated and it's nuanced, and it was a wrestle that was going on for months, and it's probably somewhere between the Bibi letter and the text -- group text that --
BLAKE NEFF, PRODUCER, "THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW": I don't -- I don't even think there was a between about it. I think those are entirely consistent with the exact same world view.
KOLVET: Yes.
NEFF: Charlie was not hiding things from people.
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CORNISH: To be aligned with Trump right now, as we talked about, even in this moment today, is to be supportive of Israel. And how has this conversation complicated that story on the right?
AXELROD: Well, there's this huge divide and it's especially generational. You have especially older people in the MAGA movement who take a more traditional view on Israel. Republicans should be supportive. And then you have younger people who believe Israel is an ally, kind of like European countries or Ukraine that kind of, you know, take advantage of America's largesse. And why do we send Israel billions of dollars in money that could be spent here? So, it really does, you know, kind of this whole conspiracy theory, take it up an extra few notches. But there's a deeper ideological conversation here.
CORNISH: Francesca, is this something that the White House wants to just stay away from?
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I mean they've been trying to hug Turning Point USA closer, right? Obviously, everyone had relationships with this organization. But what direction is this headed in?
FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "USA TODAY": A number of Turning Point folks there yesterday for the president's Antifa roundtable. When it comes to the ideological divide, part of the debate is going on is about Benjamin Netanyahu's handling of the war. So, it's not just about what Israel is or isn't doing, it's about how Netanyahu has approached these various ceasefires and peace agreements. And what --
CORNISH: But within the world (ph) they had accused Candace Owens of anti-Semitism. That has also been levied at Tucker Carlson.
CHAMBERS: Sure.
CORNISH: We saw him fight with was it Senator Ted Cruz that time in that conversation?
AXELROD: Yes. CHAMBERS: Sure. I think to the --
CORNISH: Yes.
CHAMBERS: But to the broader debate in the views right now between MAGA Republicans, who are also supportive of President Donald Trump, but to your point, some of which are saying that they don't like the way that Netanyahu has -- has handled the war, they don't necessarily agree with the ground invasion, for instance, of Gaza City.
What I was going to say is that you're also seeing some of these debates play out on the left as well with people saying, I'm supportive of it.
CORNISH: Starting to. That's where it started last year.
CHAMBERS: I'm saying -- yes. Right. Right. Of course.
CORNISH: Yes.
CHAMBERS: But we're saying, I am supportive of Israel, but I don't support the handling of the war.
CORNISH: Yes. After all that activism around it, right, around that issue, it's interesting to see it play out in this corner of the politic.
AXELROD: And that is very much what Turning Point is saying Charlie believed. They are saying, he wasn't making some kind of fundamental anti-Israel shift. He was just frustrated with what was considered permissible rhetoric, especially by donors, about what you could say about the war and about Netanyahu specifically. Whereas some other people, like Candace, are saying, he was making this more fundamental ideological shift. And Turning Point is saying, that was very much not happening.
CORNISH: Do we know where Turning Point is headed right now?
AXELROD: I think they're still figuring it out. But Erika Kirk is going to be leading the way. And I think they've gotten -- they're continuing to report a bunch of new chapters being set up at colleges and high school campuses across the country. So, obviously, they're in grieving mode. But I think they -- they have, moving forward, a lot of public goodwill and some big plans ahead.
CORNISH: Yes. With all these folks, we're talking about massive audiences online.
AXELROD: Absolutely.
CORNISH: So, there's a lot at stake here.
Tal, thanks so much for explaining it.
Next on CNN THIS MORNING, the White House says they're just as dangerous as ISIS. How the White House plans to take on Antifa and why that could be a slippery slope.
Plus.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They will never give me a Nobel Peace Prize ever.
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TRUMP: It's too bad. I deserve it, but they will never give it to me.
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CORNISH: Here we are, months later, almost decision day. Will the ceasefire in Gaza help get President Trump to the finish line and in the running for a Nobel Prize?
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CORNISH: The Trump administration is vowing to use the full weight of the federal government to wipe out Antifa. The president has already declared Antifa an international terrorist organization.
Here's how his Homeland Security chief sees it.
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KRISTI NOEM, DHS SECRETARY: This network of Antifa is just as sophisticated as MS-13, as TDA, as ISIS, as Hezbollah, as Hamas, as all of them. They are just as dangerous. They have an agenda to destroy us, just like the other terrorists we've dealt with for many, many years.
These individuals do not just want to threaten our law enforcement officers, threaten our journalists and the citizens of this country. They want to kill them.
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CORNISH: Traditionally, Antifa has not been seen as a formal organization. For instance, with a leader or a hierarchy or a command structure. And our next guest is actually an expert on the topic. Author and Rutgers University Professor Mark Bray, who is actually relocating his family because he says he's received threats and calls for his firing after an online petition last week accused him of being Antifa aligned.
Joining me now to discuss, the author of that book, as we said, his book is called "Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook."
Mark Bray, thank you for being with us. I know this has been a wild time for you. MARK BRAY, HISTORY PROFESSOR, RUTGERS: Yes, it really has. I've
received a wave of death threats. My home address was posted online. There's been a campaign of harassment. But the Rutgers student body, the Rutgers faculty, really are standing behind me. So, I feel very supported by my friends and comrades.
CORNISH: Now, as we said, you are a researcher who's kind of studied this movement. Do you think of Antifa as a movement or as you heard the DHS secretary say, likening it to a gang?
BRAY: Oh my gosh, no. Antifa is a kind of a politics or a movement. It's short for anti-fascist in a number of languages. It's history goes back more than 100 years to opposing Hitler and Mussolini. I bring that research to bear in my book. And you can read about it.
I'm a researcher. I support anti-fascism insofar as I think fascism is not good. And I think the direction this country is heading is really, really scary. And I'm witnessing a little bit of that of myself.
But these efforts to equate Antifa with ISIS, I mean, have you actually read what ISIS has done in the Middle East? They've slaughtered thousands of people. They've captured whole regions. What we're talking about here with Antifa is a kind of loose network of activists trying to organize against white supremacy.
CORNISH: When they talk about how they plan to go after people they think are affiliated with the anti-fascist movement, they talk about going after finances. They talk about sort of trying to track people down in that way. If you're saying it's not an international terrorist organization the way they're describing, is that even possible?
BRAY: You see, the thing is, I don't know what they actually truly believe. But the implications of this, by coming up with a phrase as broad as Antifa aligned, is to try and label anyone they don't like as Antifa aligned, such as myself, and try to equate protest with terrorism. And that has really dangerous implications for civil liberties in this country.
CORNISH: I know that this online petition, I think it came from Turning Point USA. I know this has been a long running conversation, right, especially on the right about the idea of Antifa and what it does.
As a researcher, do you know people who work in this world or who believe they're aligned with this movement? And is this something that they are starting to talk about?
BRAY: Well, for my book, I interviewed more than 60 anti-fascists from 17 different countries. So, certainly I know some people who have done work against fascism, who have organized in groups.
But, you know, again, I'm not really part of that world. I'm not in on those conversations. I'm a researcher. I'm a dad. I'm just trying to kind of live my life here. And it's really, I think, hypocritical for the alleged, you know, free speech absolutists of Turning Point USA to basically try to use cancel culture against me simply because they don't like my ideas.
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CORNISH: In the meantime, what are you going to be watching for going forward? I know you'll be focused on the safety of your family. But we hear a White House that is saying they are going to make a -- bring to bear the federal government on pursuing individuals they feel fall in line with this movement.
BRAY: Well, we have to see this as connected to sending the National Guard into Democratic cities. We have to see this as connected to the massive funding given to ICE. Their -- their really disregard for civil liberties. Detaining documented and undocumented people. Putting them in detention centers where their rights are being stripped away from them. This is part of a broader concern. And Antifa is a useful label because people don't really understand it. They can throw it at anyone who's left of them. Anti-fascists haven't even been in the news for five years. Trump brought this up to manufacture outrage. This is manufactured outrage. It's a fake crisis. This is out of the handbook of traditional authoritarianism.
CORNISH: Mark Bray, thank you so much for speaking with us.
BRAY: Thank you for having me.
CORNISH: Now I want to turn to this. In less than 24 hours, the winner of the 2025 Nobel Peace Prize will be announced. And it's no secret that President Trump thinks he deserves it. He's been coveting that 18 karat gold medallion for years.
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REPORTER (May 9, 2018): Do you deserve the Nobel Prize, do you think?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (MAY 9, 2018): Everyone thinks so, but I would never say it.
TRUMP (September 23, 2019): I think I'm going to get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things. If they gave it out fairly. Which they don't.
If I were named Obama, I would have had the Nobel Prize given me to -- in 10 seconds.
TRUMP (June 20, 2025): I should have gotten it four or five times.
TRUMP (September 30, 2025): Will you get the Nobel Prize? Absolutely not. They'll give it -- they'll give it to some guy that didn't do a thing.
TRUMP (September 20, 2025): What about the seven others? I should get a Nobel Prize for each one.
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CORNISH: It's also no secret that Trump loves drama. And on Wednesday, Secretary of State Marco Rubio handed a note to the president, who would then dramatically announced the deal between Israel and Hamas.
The group chat is back.
I don't know which part of this we want to take, so I'll just take the literal image, what happened with Rubio kind of coming into the room, topic unrelated. What do you know about that moment?
CHAMBERS: Well, he did. He passed him the note that said it was close and they needed him to approve a social media post about a potential deal yesterday. And it was unclear how close that they were at the time. But clearly they were in the end after he passed him that note and we got this news last night.
But on the Nobel Peace Prize, if I could. My colleague actually asked President Trump yesterday about the Nobel Peace Prize and whether or not he thought that he was going to get it, and he said he didn't know. Perhaps maybe they'll give it to him.
CORNISH: Yes.
CHAMBERS: So, he still -- he still wants it, though, clearly.
CORNISH: Well, he, obviously, has pushed statecraft. This has been among the many things the president has been doing with his first year in office.
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: The likelihood of Donald Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize is like having an American pope.
CHAMBERS: Well, but --
CORNISH: OK.
DUBKE: My point on this --
CORNISH: Yes, say more.
DUBKE: Is, he deserves it. No, I mean, if not Donald Trump, who? We've got -- we've got peace. There's multiple places where there has been peace in the last six months because of Donald Trump. This is a -- this is a award that was created by the inventor of dynamite. Donald Trump authorized the bombing of Iran, which I would make the argument, without that, the others in the Middle East wouldn't have come to the table for yesterday's peace deal.
CORNISH: Let me let -- yes. Although for a time one of the things people said is --
DUBKE: Why not Donald Trump?
CORNISH: Yes, he has had a hand in trying to affect deals in other places, though places like India and Pakistan are raising questions about that. But also, in this couple of months, it has been brutal for the civilians of Ukraine and Gaza and that those wars, until today, had -- DUBKE: Not caused by Donald Trump, though.
CORNISH: Not caused by Donald Trump, but not to take credit for what came to be an escalating crisis.
MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: So, I would say give it to him so we can stop talking about it because it is so obnoxious that he thinks he should get it. I mean what -- we could go through all of the number of reasons why he shouldn't get it. He's going to invade Greenland, the rights he wants to take away from press, pulling on the World Health --
CORNISH: Meghan, we have been talking about invading Greenland. I mean, listen, I feel like --
HAYS: (INAUDIBLE) Donald Trump said he was going to invade Greenland. So (INAUDIBLE) give someone peace.
CORNISH: Yes, but the villain origin story of this is when Obama won the Nobel Prize.
HAYS: Great. Give it to him.
CORNISH: And the perception on the right was he did not deserve it.
HAYS: I just -- what he is doing to this country, what he is doing to -- pulling out of the World Health Organization, how he treats journalists and doesn't want free speech for folks, that, I mean, there's a lot of reasons why he shouldn't get it, but --
DUBKE: All -- all -- all of your reasons -- all of your reasons have nothing to do what the prize is given for. It's like somebody goes into the hall of fame, but we're not going to put them in the hall of fame for their -- for their actions on the field because of their personal life.
HAYS: But that's not (INAUDIBLE). No, but that's not peace -- these aren't things that are like we (ph) have peace in the world.
DUBKE: But it's not all encompassing for their entire life.
CORNISH: I admire your commitment, but you know this prize is going to come out. So, you don't need --
HAYS: And I think he --
(CROSS TALK)
HAYS: We'll stop talking about it.
CORNISH: Yes.
CHAMBERS: The deadline for submissions was January 31st. So, some of the things that you're talking about came afterwards. And some of the nominations are for next year. DUBKE: Right.
CHAMBERS: So --
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CORNISH: Well, we know Netanyahu probably submitted in time.
CHAMBERS: He --
HAYS: He also said --
CORNISH: He made a show of that at an event.
CHAMBERS: That was in July.
CORNISH: Yes. Yes.
CHAMBERS: That was actually afterwards.
CORNISH: Still --
CHAMBERS: But he was nominated for the 2020 Abraham Accords prior to January 31st.
CORNISH: OK. Well, if you want the answer to this, the prize is coming out tomorrow at 5:00 a.m. We will be here to talk about that.
I want to thank the group chat for being with me. Thank you for waking up with us. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts now.
