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Hamas Delays Return of 20 Deceased Hostages to Israel; Trump Threatens to Cut More 'Democrat Programs'; Taylor Swift's New Album Breaks First Week Sales Record. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 15, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump's warning to Hamas: disarm, or we will do it for you.

[06:00:25]

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: It will happen quickly and perhaps violently, but they will disarm.

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CORNISH: Anger and frustration in Israel over deceased hostages who haven't come home. Is Hamas blowing off a big part of that ceasefire deal?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We're barreling toward one of the longest shutdowns in American history.

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CORNISH: A fight for the power of the purse. The president is about to put more Democrat programs on the chopping block.

And World Cup soccer is coming to Boston, but not if President Trump gets his way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNY HOSTIN, CO-HOST, ABC'S "THE VIEW": I think that's a very dangerous, dangerous --

CHERYL HINES, WIFE OF RFK JR.: Why is he less qualified than an economist?

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CORNISH: Actress Cheryl Hines, unscripted and unleashed, defending her husband, RFK Jr., and his qualifications to lead. And Taylor Swift's new album is shattering records, of course. But are

Swifties paying the price?

It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. But I'm giving you now a live look at Gaza. Good morning, everybody. It's Wednesday, October 15th. I want to thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish, and here's where we begin.

Growing anger in Israel over the delayed return of the remains of hostages still being held by Hamas, an issue which could threaten the fragile ceasefire just days after it began.

Now, as of this morning, only eight of the 28 deceased hostages who were in Gaza have been returned to Israel. And the Israeli military says one of those eight bodies is not an Israeli hostage.

Under the terms of the ceasefire, Hamas had agreed to turn over the remains of all 28 by midnight on Monday.

Now, in retaliation, Israel is restricting aid to Gaza. Families of those hostages are also demanding more action from the Israeli government, who they accuse of moving on, now that the deal for the living hostages is done.

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RUBY CHEN, FATHER OF ITAY CHEN: It was like the game is over; like, you know, now let's celebrate. The party is done. Let's move on to the next thing.

And we were like saying, no, that's not the case.

My son is no less of a hostage than those that came out yesterday. Yes, we're very happy for those families that are being able to hug their loved ones. But my son is entitled just as much to come out and for my family to have the closure that it expects to receive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins me now.

And Salma, there's always been a question about whether or not Hamas would be able to track down the remains of all of these hostages. Can you talk about what the concerns are now?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And Audie, that's absolutely the key kernel here.

Let me start by explaining what we know so far, because this only just happened a couple of hours ago, that the Israeli military announced that one of those four bodies that had been handed over overnight by Hamas to Israel was not that of a deceased hostage.

Now, one source saying that they believe it was actually a misidentification by Hamas, not an intentional mistake. A second source saying that they do believe that that body is that of

a Palestinian individual. Now, we did have a similar case to this in February of 2025, February of this year. Shiri Bibas, a mother of two, who had been kidnapped on October 7th. The body initially handed over as hers turned out to be the body of a Palestinian woman. A day later, her body was handed over by Hamas.

So, there is precedent here and hope that this can be resolved.

But still, this means that so far, only seven out of those 28 deceased hostages have been returned home. And as you mentioned, it was in the agreement that Hamas would hand over all those bodies by 72 hours, by that Monday deadline.

But for months now, Prime Minister Netanyahu's own intelligence assessments have indicated that Hamas may not be able to retrieve and identify all of those 28 deceased hostages on the ground. Some may simply be held by other factions. Some may have been lost to this war. Some have been -- one of the 28 is actually a lieutenant who was killed over a decade ago. So, you can begin to understand the complexities.

Still, there is a lot of frustration and anger on the ground, of course, particularly among Israeli families that have been seeking that closure. And their anger is not just directed at Hamas. It is also directed at Israeli politicians, some who took off their pins, indicating that the hostages are all home, something which is simply not the case.

And in Gaza, the consequences are already raining down. Today, the United Nations saying that Israel in response, has cut aid in half. Today, only 300 aid trucks will be allowed into the enclave. It was 600 previously. That was barely enough, according to humanitarian workers.

[06:05:16]

And Israel's security bodies are now potentially recommending that Israel redeploy its forces to parts of Gaza or shut down the Rafah crossing completely.

So, serious concerns now that we're seeing the cracks in this ceasefire deal. And at the heart of it all, Audie, of course, is Prime Minister Netanyahu, who has had this knowledge for months now that Hamas may not be able to retrieve all the dead.

CORNISH: All right. Salma Abdelaziz will be following this today. Thank you for your reporting.

And coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, there's no denying it. The crisis in Gaza divided the Democratic Party. But now that there's a ceasefire, will voters move on? I'm going to talk to a Senate candidate from Michigan about this.

Plus, the Supreme Court taking up a consequential case that could impact voting rights across the country. And another vote fails to end the government shutdown. So, Republicans

have a new tactic. Will their threats work? Our group chat has some thoughts on that, next.

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STEPHEN COLBERT, CO-HOST, CBS' "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": The government is shut down indefinitely. Yes.

So, like any building that sits unused this time of year, the Capitol is now a Spirit Halloween.

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[06:11:00

CORNISH: President Trump is planning to announce cuts to Democratic programs on Friday if the government remains closed. Another Senate vote to end the two weeklong shutdown actually failed yesterday.

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TRUMP: The Democrats are getting killed, and we're going to have a list of them on Friday, closing up some of the most egregious socialist, semi-communist, probably not full communist. We're saving that for New York, but semi-communist programs.

And we're closing them up. We're not closing up Republican programs, because we think they work. So, we are closing up Democrat programs that we think that we disagree with. And they're never going to open again.

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CORNISH: The White House Budget Office is prepared to, quote, "ride out the shutdown" by continuing layoffs. The Trump administration has already fired more than 4,000 federal government workers.

As for the military, the president insists today's paychecks will clear.

So, joining us now in the group chat, Margaret Talev, senior contributor at Axios; Bryan Lanza, former Trump campaign adviser; and Ashley Etienne, former comms director for Vice President Kamala Harris.

Ashley, I want to start with you. Not because of the part of your resume that has Kamala Harris on it, but the part that has Nancy Pelosi.

Because it means you are probably hearing from Democrats who are trying to decide how long to hold out. What are they saying?

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMS DIRECTOR FOR VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: So, there's a lot of anxiety within the caucus I'm hearing about what's the exit strategy? It's not clear how Democrats get out of this bind.

I mean, you've got a situation, I've been saying, where the president of the United States is willing to shoot the hostage. And he's demonstrating that every day: firing over 4,000 federal workers, paying certain portions of -- of -- our economy, you know, military workers, et cetera.

CORNISH: But I like what you're saying about exit, because it's one thing to be pushed into entering the fight. Right?

I want to play for you guys a bit of sound from Senator Murphy. Here's what he's saying now.

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SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): People want us to fight for this democracy. They see it being obliterated on the streets of Chicago. They watch the growing censorship state.

They're worried about their premiums increase -- increasing.

The pressure that I get, and frankly, I think that the feedback for a lot of my Democratic members is that this is a fight worth having.

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): We want the same thing that the White House has -- wants. So why don't we just have a negotiation; figure out what the fix to these rising premiums are going to be; and then open the government and implement it. It's pretty simple.

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CORNISH: So, that argument: fight and is this the right fight? And how long do you stay in the fight?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think those are actually really different questions.

For Democrats, it probably is the right fight. I mean, healthcare has been the -- the issue --

CORNISH: Right.

TALEV: -- that has drawn voters to the Democratic Party in the midterms, the previous presidential election, so on and so forth.

And Republican constituents, as well as Democratic constituents who have benefited from that COVID-era extension of Obamacare, of health benefits, like their premiums are going to go way up or they're going to lose insurance. That is all going to happen.

CORNISH: And even people like Marjorie Taylor Greene talking about health care specifically. Does that undermine the Republican messaging when you have her really taking it to the road? You know, this performance of, hey, guys, actually, this health care

thing is real, and you should be taking it more seriously.

BRYAN LANZA, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: Listen, I do think the health care thing is real, but I think you can't reward this type of behavior. We had a clean C.R. passed by the House of Representatives. We had --

CORNISH: But does she undermine that talking point? Right?

LANZA: No, everyone would -- I would say --

CORNISH: Like if everyone was out there saying, hey guys, it's a clean C.R.

LANZA: She probably doesn't --

CORNISH: And she comes out and says, what are you doing?

LANZA: She -- no, she doesn't undermine it.

CORNISH: How does that help?

LANZ: More like the Democrats. The four Democrats or the three Democrats who voted for the C.R., as well, which is now a bipartisan C.R.

So, you have -- you have cracks on both sides. Marjorie Taylor Greene is clearly -- she understands that, I think, close to 78 percent of Trump's base cares about these -- this extensions.

But the debate for this extension is December. The Democrats want to bring that fight in October, because they're losing their base. Their base is going wild. They demand action. They're demanding some type of fight against President Trump.

[06:15:07]

And this is more about Chuck Schumer than anything else. He knows if he capitulates like he did in March, the base will go apocalyptic on him.

CORNISH: Yes.

LANZA: And he likely would -- he likely would be thrown out.

CORNISH: Though I have a question about how much regular people care about Chuck Schumer. But --

LANZA: He cares about himself a lot.

ETIENNE: No, I think you're absolutely right. I think you're absolutely right.

I think what's working to Republicans' advantage, which will enable them to sort of -- what I'm hearing from my Republican friends, is they're going to hold out almost to the end of the year -- is that 60 percent of the country has no idea what this fight is even about.

LANZA: Detail (ph).

ETIENNE: They have no idea that we're fighting over healthcare premiums. That's actually working to the Republicans' advantage.

CORNISH: That's about to get worse. If Republicans also start cherry- picking different programs in the government to shut down.

And now the conversation comes about whatever, like muskrat research in some state. Like, I feel like those things are effective when people pull out programs and say, look, this is a waste, and this is what they're fighting for.

TALEV: Like, politically, let's put the substance aside for a second.

CORNISH: Yes.

TALEV: Politically, the risk for Democrats is that they play their hand too long, that the public sentiment that's been with them in the early polls, "The Washington Post" poll, who do you blame for the shutdown? They blame -- Americans blame Trump and the Republican Party more.

The risk for Democrats is that the longer this goes on, their advantage on that narrows.

And the risk, I think, for Republicans and for the president is that they overplay their hand on the riffs and the cuts, and there's a backlash against that.

CORNISH: Right. Which we saw with DOGE.

LANZA: I would say this: after 30 days, everybody gets blamed. Nobody is safe after 30 days.

CORNISH: Sure, absolutely.

LANZA: And we're headed --

CORNISH: And we've seen that in shutdowns before.

ETIENNE: I will say, the way that we lifted the shutdown in '18 -- I was working for Pelosi as her communications director -- is we localized the impact in the cuts.

To your point, this now -- people are out in the country are going to start to feel the effects of the shutdown. What we did is we took that and localized it, created ground up pressure on Republicans. And then it broke Donald Trump.

They only respond to ground from pressure from the ground.

CORNISH: Groundswell, yes.

ETIENNE: Absolutely. CORNISH: It will be interesting.

ETIENNE: And Democrats are playing an inside the beltway game, and it's not really working.

CORNISH: Well, we'll see if they break out of that. We're actually going to be talking with Bernie Sanders and congressional -- to Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tonight in a town hall.

LANZA: Awesome. I like that.

CORNISH: You guys stay with me, because we've got a lot more to talk about.

If you are watching and you want to check out that town hall, it's going to be tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern.

Now, after the break on CNN THIS MORNING, the war on drugs once again looking like an actual war. The Trump administration announces another strike on a suspected drug boat off the coast of South America.

Plus, juicing the charts or just business? Why Taylor Swift is facing a backlash for her latest album rollout.

Good morning, New York.

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[06:21:57]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's more variants of the vinyls and stuff than there is songs on the album.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The demand is there. It's not Taylor's fault she's a marketing genius.

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CORNISH: OK, a marketing genius or fan manipulation? Either way, the numbers are in for "The Life of a Showgirl," and they are record- shattering.

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(MUSIC)

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CORNISH: Swifties came out in full force last week to catapult Taylor Swift's latest album to the top of the charts.

The album had no singles or videos released ahead of time, and it still smashed first-week sales with more than 4 million. That easily ousted Adele from the top spot. But this album release has come with some fan backlash, thanks to more

than three dozen physical and downloadable versions. Some were available for just 24 hours, others were acoustic versions or even voice memos. This fan had a not-so-subtle reaction to that one.

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TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER (singer): And all the head shots on the walls of the dance hall of the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) who'd wish I'd hurry up and die.

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CORNISH: OK, they're just laughing, basically.

But anyway, as for Taylor Swift, she says she welcomes the chaos.

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SWIFT: The rule of show business is, if it's the first week of my album release, and you are saying either my name or my album title, you're helping.

I'm not the art police. It's like everybody is allowed to feel exactly how they want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK. Joining me now to discuss, Adam Gustafson. He's an associate professor of music at Penn State Harrisburg.

You know, it's interesting. We don't actually get to see her talk about her business in that way, like, so directly. Can you talk about how this approach differs from either something she's done in the past or if we're just seeing something other artists do?

ADAM GUSTAFSON, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MUSIC, PENN STATE HARRISBURG: Sure. Yes. Thanks for having me.

It's -- it's definitely a trend that's been popping up more in the last 10 or 15 years. We do see it on a micro scale earlier than Taylor Swift. This idea of putting out multiple versions of things in order to boost -- boost streams or album sales.

What she seems to have done, though, is taken it and really just amplified it to a maximal degree.

CORNISH: I know people like Lady Gaga had multiple variants, six for her recent "Mayhem" album. Charli XCX had multiple versions, plus a remix album.

But how much of this has to do with the age of streaming itself? How much harder it is to have good numbers? Because even these high numbers are still sort of less than what they were when I was a teenager. GUSTAFSON: Yes, certainly. It's -- it's hard to keep track these days with all the different formats of -- of being able to access music, streaming being probably the most problematic, given that you can stream individual songs versus entire albums.

The other thing, though, is that it also kind of is interesting to see, you know, fans kind of harkening back to physical mediums like album sales and CDs, which are really doing well for her right now.

CORNISH: What do you think is kind of remarkable about this moment of backlash? Like, I feel, you know, physically unsafe saying anything that could potentially be construed as a criticism of Taylor Swift.

[06:25:12]

And she herself is like, haters going to hate, thank goodness, because that gooses sales. Is this some kind of tipping point, though, of saturation where even some fans are like, OK, basta?

GUSTAFSON: Yes. I wonder if it's less about saturation. I mean, she's clearly been huge now for a decade.

I think for me, what I -- what I am seeing is more this idea of authenticity, that part of her entire appeal is that fans have historically felt like they're kind of on the journey with her.

I feel like with this, there is this moment of -- of kind of realizing that maybe they're just there to consume her products. And I think that is rubbing some people the wrong way.

CORNISH: Do you think it's because now she's a billionaire? I mean, after that massive tour, it's pretty clear where she -- where she stands. Right? In terms of pop royalty.

But we're in an economy where Gen Z has a higher unemployment rate. Maybe they don't want to spend their money this way.

GUSTAFSON: Yes, I certainly think we're starting to see maybe, you know, questioning of the value of some of these experiences. You know, you hear of the Eras Tour itself, people paying up to $5,000 for -- for tickets, you know, in the resale market.

And it does lead one to start questioning what that relationship actually is. If it's synthetic and therefore worth it, or if it's something that should be sustained.

CORNISH: That's Adam Gustafson. Thanks so much for sharing.

GUSTAFSON: Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: And straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, Jack Smith called to testify before a House panel to discuss his two successful indictments of President Trump. So, could this backfire for Republicans?

Plus, the city of Boston preparing to host the FIFA World Cup, unless the president tries to move it. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)