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Cedric Hawkins is Interviewed about Tensions in Chicago; White House Believes It's Winning in Shutdown; Kira Rudik is Interviewed about Ukraine; Millions Expected at "No Kings" Protests. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 17, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Another U.S. strike on a drug boat. Venezuela's president responding to the CIA operating in his country.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody thinks they're winning. Nobody is winning when everybody's losing.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is going to be --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Why the White House believes, though, they really are winning in the shutdown standoff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:09]

HILL: Good Friday morning. I'm Erica Hill. Nice to have you with all of us here on CNN THIS MORNING.

6:34 here on the East Coast. Let's get you caught up on what's happening right now.

President Trump's former national security advisor indicted. John Bolton could surrender today. He is facing 18 counts of sharing and retaining national defense information. Prosecutors say they found more than 1,000 pages of diary-like entries, which contained classified information.

Sources tell CNN the U.S. military has carried out another strike on a boat in the Caribbean. Some of the crew on board is believed to have survived. This comes a day after the U.S. confirmed the CIA is operating inside Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Never before had any previous government, since the CIA has existed, publicly said that it was sending the CIA to kill, to overthrow, and to destroy countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: It is unclear whether agents have the authority to remove President Nicolas Maduro.

A federal judge in Chicago wants all federal agents who are part of the president's immigration crackdown to wear body cameras. Judge Sarah Ellis is demanding answers from the Trump administration after seeing videos of violent attacks -- violent tactics, rather, like this high-speed chase in a southeast Chicago neighborhood. This happened on Tuesday. And also these agents using tear gas. The judge told the Justice Department she was, quote, "not happy."

The judge is accusing the administration as well of ignoring her orders as tensions boil over in Chicago in the midst of this immigration crackdown, which is known as Operation Midway Blitz. Another viral video shows border agents swarming a Walgreens store earlier this week. They were searching for two suspected migrants they accused of ramming their vehicle. During the chaotic scene, agents tackled 19-year-old Warren King outside the store as his family frantically screamed, "he's a citizen." King was released from custody a few hours later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN KING, 19-YEAR-OLD DETAINED BY ICE: I'm telling them, I'm a U.S. citizen. I'm -- I'm here. I'm legal. I'm born here. So, and they didn't -- they didn't try to hear none of that.

I just graduated high school. So, they could come for literally anybody. And that's not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining me now is Cedric Hawkins, strategic initiatives manager at Chicago CRED, an anti-gun violence organization in the city.

Cedric, it's good to have you with us this morning.

I know that -- that you had said you hoped President Trump would send the, quote, "right resources" to Chicago. Do you believe the administration has done that? What are you seeing across the city?

CEDRIC HAWKINS, STRATEGIC INITIATIVES MANAGER, CRED: No. Actually, the administration -- the administration hasn't sent the correct resources. At this time, I haven't actually saw things myself. I'm seeing it on the news. I'm hearing about it. And it's actually a threat on all communities. This has anything to do with just the Latino communities or illegal immigrants. This is one of our most violent, notorious (ph) raids since Chicago was in south shore (ph), which is predominantly black neighborhood, where ICE came at six in the morning and they ransacked apartments and zip-tied people and put children in vans for hours. So, this is not just a Latino problem or a illegal immigrant problem. This is just a problem that they are putting on Chicago at this time.

HILL: When you hear the comments from the judge who has said that she wants body cameras on these officers, on these law enforcement officers, do you believe that that would make a difference? What do you think that would change?

HAWKINS: So -- so I actually -- I actually do believe that the body cam would help. But I actually believe that we don't need them at all. You know, we have law enforcement in Chicago. We have CPD. They have body cams. They're trying to gain a relationship back with the community. So, we actually don't need ICE or National Guards.

HILL: So, when it comes to, if we look at the crime statistics, the Council on Criminal Justice shows the homicide rate per 100,000 residents in Chicago is down by about a third in the first half of the year compared to the same period a year ago. Twelve hundred people were shot in that time, 274 murders. Those numbers, though, are higher than what's been reported in both New York City and Los Angeles. Larger cities by population.

If this is not the intervention that is needed, you did say you hoped the president would send the, quote, "right resources." What do you believe is needed, and how could the administration potentially make a difference in Chicago?

HAWKINS: So, what I believe is needed is just resources and investment. You know, we don't need a military assault. Right now, Chicago is at a -- we're on pace to be able to see 400 murders -- under 400 murders in Chicago. Something that we haven't done since 1965, which is, that's 60 years, you know?

[06:40:06]

And right now it is showing that -- with Chicago's community-based collaboration, is showing that what we're doing now is working. So, if what we're doing now is working, investment in more resources, that's what's showing that's working, then that's what the president should be sending our way, investment and more resources, you know, so we can continue to stay on top of what we've -- what's been working.

HILL: Cedric Hawkins, we appreciate your perspective. And let us know if you -- if you hear back in terms of whether the administration hears what you suggest would help. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

HAWKINS: Thank you.

HILL: So, another vote to reopen the government failed in the Senate again. It is the tenth time, for those of you keeping score at home. As the shutdown continues, the White House is convinced, though, that its messaging is winning. Messages like this one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The administration has taken the tough step to lay off thousands of workers across the federal government because the Democrats have selfishly chosen to shut our government down in the name of partizan politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The White House also sharing its own polling data with "Axios," which says it found a six point decrease in net favorability for congressional Democrats in two weeks. The numbers for Republicans, according to the White House, went up four points. Democrats, though, believe they're on the right side of the standoff, framing this as a fight, of course, to protect health care.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): On the basic issue of health care, the clock is ticking. People are rising up in red states, as well as blue. And three quarters of everyone affected by the failure to extend the health care tax credits live in red states represented by my Republican colleagues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The group chat is back.

Now I'm going back to you first again here.

It's -- it's -- messaging is going to be an important part of this. Messaging is certainly the politics of it. The reality is, more and more Americans are starting to feel it.

NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: That's right. And the thing that's really struck me, Erica, is that I have not seen anybody -- you know, I talk to people, friends, community. I do interviews. I have not seen anyone really change their mind. If you went into this blaming the Democrats, you blame the Democrats. If you went into this blaming the Republicans, you blame the Republicans.

And I did think at a certain point, you know, people are going to be getting, you know, notices that their premiums are increasing or they're going to be laid off or they're going to be like, hey, the, you know, the White House is finally cutting big government, and people would start to feel some kind of way. And the truth of the matter is, most Americans I talk to, they don't feel very much about this at all. It's just like, hey, government is dysfunctional and they're doing it again. I'm surprised that they --

HILL: Which I think is fascinating that you're not seeing a shift at all.

KING: Yes.

HILL: Is that good or bad for Democrats?

ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Oh, I don't think it's good or bad for anyone. I think that health care is a bipartisan issue that should be in this -- should be handled in a bipartisan way. The only thing partizan about the government shutdown or the conversation we're having is the fact that 70 times in the past 15 years Republicans have tried to repeal and displace millions of Americans, to roll back the Affordable Care Act but yet have not offered a solution.

The only partizan thing about this conversation is, if they start this conversation saying undocumented immigrants were going to get health care, which we know is not true because you need a Social Security Number, that lie transitioned to undocumented immigrants showing up in hospitals across the country, which is a Ronald Reagan provision that's been in place since the '80s, and now has turned into, oh, these Covid enhancement tax credits. We know that's not true because this came as a direct result of the 2021 Inflation Reduction Act.

And so, that's the only thing that's been partisan about this. But the reality is, a family paying $8,000 a year for health care now, if those enhancement tax credits are not extended, that will go to $24,000 to $32,000 a year. That's real.

HILL: Rob, what about the messaging that we've heard, specifically from the president, going after, in his words, "Democrat agencies," "Democrat-leaning workers"? How helpful is that to attack people who have no control in this situation?

ROB BLUEY, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Sure. I think what the president is trying to do there is put pressure on those moderate Democrats to come to the table and get those five or six votes that he needs to get to 60 and get the government reopened. It's in his best interest to do that so there aren't implications in terms of what he's trying to accomplish with the policies of his administration.

Ultimately, I -- I -- I -- I dis -- I have to respond to the point that Antjuan made, though, because the Affordable Care Act, as it was championed by Barack Obama, has been anything but affordable. As you just pointed out, the cost of health care has been increasing, despite what the Democrats have been promising. And so, they put the -- they put the deadline and to sunset this provision. Covid is no longer the emergency. Barack -- President Joe Biden took the emergency status off. And yet here they are asking to add more money to our $37 trillion national debt.

[06:45:05]

We just don't have it, Erica.

SEAWRIGHT: Well, Rob, you just -- you just validated my point. The enhancement tax credit were never about Covid. They were about a 2021 law signed into law by President Biden. The Inflation Reduction Act that was used to lower costs in this country. And like every --

BLUEY: Nobody believes that. Health care premiums have gone up by astronomical numbers in a year.

SEAWRIGHT: Like -- but like -- like every piece of major legislation in this country, it requires us to work in a way to update them. Nobody said the Affordable Care Act passed the way it was, was going to remain the way it should be. No one suggested about any piece of legislation in this country.

Here's what I think the reshaping of government has come down to. One, it was all about in detail in Project 2025. The Republicans are using the government shutdown to reshape government as they wanted to and as they tried to do by way of DOGE at the beginning of this administration. So, now they have an opportunity and they want to use a shutdown as an opportunity to do that.

HILL: We are just about out of time. But -- but at the end of the day, I think all of this, though, speaks back to the point that you have seen in your interviewing, in your reporting, as you're talking to people, which is, none of these things are moving the needle.

KING: Yes.

HILL: The American people are frustrated and they still don't like Congress very much.

SEAWRIGHT: Has anyone talked to --

BLUEY: They don't like Congress.

SEAWRIGHT: Has -- have -- Republicans control the House, the Senate, the presidency --

HILL: I --

SEAWRIGHT: And they have not yet spoken to Democrats about a way out of this. I think that is how we frame this conversation.

HILL: I think we're going to frame this conversation by putting a pin in it --

SEAWRIGHT: OK.

HILL: Because it's going to come back, you guys. I feel pretty confident saying that, and I don't even need a magic eight ball. It's going to come back.

SEAWRIGHT: I believe you.

HILL: Still to come here on CNN THIS MORNING, Ukraine's president is in Washington to meet with President Trump. So, does the ceasefire deal in Gaza give any hope for a potential agreement when it comes to Russia's war on Ukraine?

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Threaten, smear and lie, scare people into submission. But we will not be intimidated.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Thousands are ready to protest the Trump administration. Republicans calling this a hate America rally. Will the smear campaign turn peaceful protests into something ugly?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:51:28]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did actually say, would you mind if I gave a couple of thousand Tomahawks to your opposition? I did say that to him. I said it just that way. He didn't like the idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: President Trump there talking a little bit more about his call with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday. The idea of arming Ukraine with Tomahawk missiles, as you just heard there, did not go over well with the Russian president. Perhaps not surprisingly. In just a few hours, President Trump is set to host President Zelenskyy, Ukraine's president, of course, here in Washington.

Trump and Putin, meantime, are planning another face-to-face summit, this time to be hosted by Hungary. That's expected to happen within the next couple of weeks. There is a bipartisan effort to place, meantime, more crippling sanctions on Russia. President Trump says he'll talk to Republican leaders in Congress about putting that vote, though, on hold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We may have -- this may be such a productive call that we're going to end up -- we -- we want to get peace.

I'll speak to them a little bit later, and I'll tell them about this, and we'll make the right determination. I'm not against anything, I'm just saying, it may not be perfect timing. It could happen in a week or two, but it's at my option.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining me now to discuss, Kira Rudik. She's a member of Ukraine's parliament.

It's nice to have you back with us this morning.

So, as we just heard from the president here, on the heels of his call with Vladimir Putin, he is talking about delaying, again, a vote on harsher sanctions for Russia. Based on what we've seen over the last several years, since -- since Russia invaded Ukraine, is that the right tactic, in your view, to get Putin to the table, to perhaps keep this in the back pocket of the United States as a bargaining chip?

KIRA RUDIK, MEMBER OF UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Hello, Erica, and thank you so much for having me.

Well, as of right now, we see that President Trump was not able to get anything from Putin. The facts are here. And since the beginning of his presidency, he was only putting pressure on Ukraine. And we have done everything by the book. We have voted for the rare minerals deal. We have agreed to an unconditional ceasefire. President Zelenskyy was basically executing on every ask that President Trump had.

And where we are right now, we are in the middle of autumn and there has not been any pressure put on Russia. And there has been promises and the deadlines that were pushed again and again, which right now looks like an appeasement to Putin. This is something that Putin enjoys. And this is a game that he can play. And he is successful in playing.

It hurts me to say that, but he was able to escape, evade sanctions for the last four to six months. He continues attacking Ukraine and the condemnation and threats are actually not stopping Russia.

There are two directions that need to be taken. First, with the Tomahawk on any other wide range missiles, but also the sanctions and economic pressure on Russia.

HILL: Do you believe there will be movement on either one of those, though, based on the comments we just heard from President Trump yesterday?

RUDIK: Well, otherwise, it will be a huge sign of weakness, especially before the meeting of President Trump and Xi Jinping. Right now, the -- the attacks of Russia onto European countries intervening with their air space, they are showing China, Russia, North Korea and Iran that west is weak. President Trump is actually playing to that by delaying all the threats that he has been making to Putin.

[06:55:04]

HILL: So, are you saying this makes President Trump look weak?

RUDIK: Well, it doesn't add to America's strength. And it's obviously not the peace through strength strategy that President Trump promised.

You know, here, Erica, on the ground, President Trump brought a lot of hope with his statements. And right now, in the middle of autumn, when energy and water outages started in Kyiv and other cities, people began to be very, very disappointed with the empty promises that are not being delivered. And again, even if there was anything, something that was made to pressure Putin to a ceasefire, but there is nothing.

BOLDUAN: Do you believe there's anything President Zelenskyy can say today that would nudge President Trump to apply some pressure to President Putin?

RUDIK: Well. I hope that he has some cards in his pockets. And I think the main card that we have in Ukraine, that we are still here and we are still fighting no matter what Putin was proclaiming earlier this year that he will take more and more of our territories and bring us to forfeit. But we are still here. We are fighting. We are not alone. We're having our European allies behind our backs. And if President Trump really wants to end the war, he would need to do what seems to be very unpleasant. And it is pressure Russia, pressure Putin.

HILL: Kira Rudik, appreciate your time, as always. Thank you.

RUDIK: Thank you.

HILL: Well, tomorrow, the "No Kings" movement is holding its second day of rallies nationwide to protest President Trump and the administration's policies. The No Kings Coalition says there are 2,600 events scheduled. Millions are expected to participate. This week, Republicans looking to get ahead of the event with their own messaging about Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We call it the hate America rally because you'll see the hate for America all over this thing when they show up.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): It's all the pro-Hamas wing and the, you know, the Antifa people, they're all coming out.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): There's considerable evidence that George Soros and his network is behind funding these rallies.

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Who's running the show in the Senate? Chuck Schumer's not running the show. The "No Kings" protesters organizers are running the show.

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: The fartherest (ph) left, the hardest core, the most unhinged in the Democratic Party, which is, you know, a big title. And, you know, "No Kings" equal no paychecks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: In response to those comments, one of the organizers of the "No Kings" event had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EZRA LEVIN, EXECUTIVE CO-DIRECTOR, INDIVISIBLE: The question isn't -- isn't, is there any truth to their claims about this. Obviously, these are peaceful protests at enormous historic scales. The question is, why now? Why are they coming at us now? And it's because they are worried that they are losing their grip on power. They are worried that other people in blue states, red states and purple states, in rural communities, in Trump country, are going to see, the public doesn't support this. And that makes them scared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Rob, is this about fear?

BLUEY: I do think that we're in a different moment than we were during the first "No Kings" protest. I mean we've had the assassination of Charlie Kirk. We saw a peaceful response. A lot of people returning to church for the first time, or going for the first time. So, a largely peaceful response in response to what was a horrific moment.

Now, I think you also have a situation with "No Kings" happening at the same time where there is a crackdown in many of these major cities, which has animated the left in this country. And I would just point out that despite all of the criticism they have for President Trump, they are allowed to organize and demonstrate their -- their freedoms. A king would not allow a "No Kings" protest. Let's face it.

HILL: We should also point out, these were all largely peaceful as well in June when they happened, all of these events, in terms of, you know, looking at how it went the first time.

What's your response to -- to what we've been seeing?

SEAWRIGHT: Well, John Lewis would call this "good trouble, necessary trouble." The late, great Bayard (ph) Rustin would say, we need "angelic troublemakers," good troublemakers in every community. This patriotic act is very consistent with the First Amendment right to express yourself and also to petition your government for change. We've seen this before.

I'm a 40-year-old black man, proud son of the south. Peaceful, nonviolent protesting is in my DNA. That's how we've always advocated and pushed for change. So, this conversation is not new to some of us. The difference is, the right, the extreme right, in many cases are trying to act as if something is not. We've seen them protest. And that's OK.

And so, in this case, it should be OK for us to peacefully protest. Unlike January 6th, we had people storming the Capitol saying, hang the vice president, put nooses up in places and spaces and so forth. Totally different.

HILL: What has changed, though, since June, given what we are seeing in a lot of major cities, and what could that mean?

KING: I was there in June. I covered the president's birthday military parade. And there were "No Kings" protests kind of happening outside adjacent. And one thing that really surprised me, because I covered the summer of 2020, I said to myself, OK, this is going to get out of control.

[07:00:00]

And then it didn't. It was like nobody there wanted to be out of control. Everyone I interviewed was like, let's keep it peaceful, let's keep it fun. We're just here to, like, express our, you know, joy at the president's birthday and military or our dismay at the president. Great, great, great America.

Now, as you said in the meantime, Charlie Kirk has been killed. The rhetoric has been ramped up about, this is anti-American. These are pro-Hamas supporters.

The thing that worries me is that it just takes one person.

HILL: Yes.

KING: It doesn't matter what party they're from. It takes one person to act out, and then things go sideways. And you're right, we have a right to protest, and we should. But, everyone, just cross your fingers.

HILL: There will be -- I mean there will be extra scrutiny. It's impossible to ignore that.

KING: Yes.

HILL: Thank you all. We have to leave it there because we ran late. Sorry.

Thanks so much for joining us this morning. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.