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Rep. Janelle Bynum (D-OR) is Interviewed about Troops in Portland; Seven Universities Reject the White House Funding Deal; sultan Meghji is Interviewed about the Web Outage; White House Demolishes East Wing. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:20]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour, and here is what's happening right now.

Today marks the 21st day of the government shutdown. That means it's now tied for the second longest in U.S. history. Senate Republicans are headed to the White House later today, but they won't be discussing how to end this. Instead, it is to show a unified front with the president against Democrats.

And Japan has elected its first female leader. Hard line conservative Senae Takaichi, who won the vote to become prime minister Tuesday. Her accession to the role comes just days before President Trump is expected to visit the country.

And former President Joe Biden has completed a course of radiation therapy. His daughter posting a video of him ringing the bell, a tradition for many cancer patients after completing a round of treatment. Biden is battling an aggressive form of prostate cancer that has spread to his bones. It's unclear with his new treatment what the next steps might be.

And the deployment of National Guard troops to Portland is one step closer to happening. In a two to one decision Monday, the Ninth Circuit of Appeals sided with the Trump administration. They found that even if the president exaggerates Portland as war ravaged on social media, quote, "this does not change that other facts provide a colorable basis to support the administration's argument.

President Trump calls Portland a war zone, but peaceful protesters in inflatable costumes outside the ICE facility are trying to tell a different story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't know how to react to people with humor and silliness. So, why not try that? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whimsy of it is really fantastic. Makes it fun.

Makes it accessible. Feels safe. It really takes the argument out of the idea that this is a violent thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hard to come up with an alternate narrative when you have people dancing, you know, in costume.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me now to discuss, Congresswoman Janelle Bynum of Oregon.

Thank you for waking up for us.

REP. JANELLE BYNUM (D-OR): Good morning.

CORNISH: We were just showing the folks who are dancing out there wearing costumes, but the court was also looking at the number of arrests that have happened since June 2025, outside the Lindquist federal building, 22 defendants this summer. And they're accused of attempted arson, you know, destructive devices. There were people who assembled a guillotine outside the ICE facility. And they also mentioned bomb threats and even following ICE officers back to their hotel rooms.

[06:35:05]

So, help me square these two narratives, which is doing the damage here?

BYNUM: Well, I think this ruling gives Trump the green light to continue his attempted takeover of Portland, Oregon, and those numbers that you're citing are mere accusations. And I think where we have to focus on is making sure that the First Amendment is protected.

And when we were going through this in 2020, one thing to remember is that when you talk about why people are protesting and why things may get violent, what you have to understand is you need to address the grievances.

And that's what the Trump administration is not doing. They need to address the grievances that people are bringing, and that's why they're protesting.

CORNISH: Is there any argument for Democrats to say nonviolent protests in particular might be the better approach here? Are there ways that you're in a sense, baiting or being drawn into this argument by the White House?

BYNUM: Well, it's very clear to me that President Trump is trying to use our National Guard as toy soldiers, and that is where. We have a problem. This is not a Democratic issue or Republican issue. This is an American issue where people are trying to say something is wrong. Something doesn't seem right, and we want it to stop, and we're exercising our First Amendment rights to do that. That's the problem that President Trump has. This is a distraction.

And he knows that if he continues the distraction, he doesn't have to run us our money.

That's what we're asking for. Make sure you focus on the things that Americans have put forward, front and center, and not going about these destructive ways that he's trying to change the story and change the narrative.

CORNISH: We know the state is planning to appeal. There's still a restraining order. What would you like to see next in this fight from your state?

BYNUM: Well, the president knows that he's messing with Portland, Oregon, and he's messing with the wrong people. What he needs to know is that he needs to run us our money.

We need money for roads. We've needed money for special education for our students. We need money for water projects. Those are all grants that we applied for that we expected to have so we can improve the quality of life of Oregonians.

He knows that he stopped that and he's trying to cover up for that. Run us our money.

CORNISH: Congresswoman Janelle Bynum of Oregon, thank you.

BYNUM: Thank you.

CORNISH: Now, while that's going on, the Trump administration is also trying to tighten its grip on college campuses. So, seven universities have actually turned down this new offer for extra federal funding that would have been tied to a series of specific demands. Letters were sent to 12 schools asking for policy changes. Among them, the White House wants them to no longer consider gender and race in admissions. They want them to cap international student enrollment. The University of Virginia, the University of Arizona, University of Southern California, UPenn, Brown, Dartmouth, MIT, they've all rejected it. There are some schools that say they're reviewing the proposal, or at least they haven't commented as of yet. Now, for students on campus, it's sparking concerns about attacks on higher ed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wed have to promise to shut down programs that are deemed as inefficient. The victims of this would be black studies, gender studies, ethnic studies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm asking UT leaders to listen to us, to recognize who is attending your school and who is paying thousands of dollars every year to get our education here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Group chat is back to discuss. You know, one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to this -- about

this, because it isn't just the issue of maybe transgender students that they're talking about. They are also talking about the idea that restrict employees from expressing certain political views. And it feels like they're reaching for a little bit more than just general concerns.

But, Ashley, can I get your point of view?

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: Yes, I'm -- I'm pretty close to this just because of some of the -- the folks I work with.

I think that the bottom line is of why these universities are not signing this is because of, if you do, you're putting yourself in a legal situation long term. And so, I think that if you're a university and sign this document, because it is some far-reaching things that they have to say.

CORNISH: Yes, they want to -- they want the schools to anonymously poll students and employees on their points of view, right, to -- to determine compliance.

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I remember when the Republican Party didn't want government control of many things, and it looks like they're trying to control our higher ed. And God forbid Chuck Rocha talk about higher ed. But I'll tell you this, Donald Trump don't like what they've been teaching about Republicans or conservativism.

[06:40:02]

And I think that's what this is about.

CORNISH: Can you talk about how the student -- how those universities are stepping up? We spent all of the last year talking about how scared they were. Is this a turning point?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": It does seem like a little bit of a turning point. I mean we saw the "No Kings" protests over the weekend. This is a little bit of that same sentiment, the idea that you shouldn't just bow down to a president who wants to run everything. He wants to run the Kennedy Center. He wants to run the universities. He wants to run law firms. Universities are starting to push back, in part because they realize that their constituents, people that pay tuition, don't -- do not want them bowing down.

And it's also a free speech issue. A lot of these universities preach and talk about the Constitution, talk about constitutional law. They can't do that in good faith while also getting in bed with the president in this anti-free speech movement that he want (ph).

CORNISH: Do you think in part it's because this has gone so far past the arguments about anti-Semitism?

DAVIS: Well, I think that was the beginning. I mean I was watching the kids that were protesting. I mean they were protesting about Gaza, too, and I'm wondering where that is at this moment. But I also think that -- listen, this is a legal issue in my mind more than anything, that -- why are you setting yourself up for a legal case if you don't abide by some of these broad area categories? I think they're very hard to define. And I think, if you're a lawyer of these universities, you'd be, like, never sign this.

CORNISH: Yes, I think your point is taken by a lot of people. It's too vague.

DAVIS: It's too vague. Yes. I mean I --

CORNISH: It's too broad, too vague and you can get into legal trouble down the road.

You guys stay with me. And, you know, if you ever miss a show, I should mention, we're actually a podcast, so you can hear the group chat. Scan this QR code now to find it. CNN THIS MORNING is available wherever you get your podcasts.

Now, next on CNN THIS MORNING, take a look at the White House. That's the East Wing, partially torn down, to make room for the president's new ballroom.

Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a clear sign that having a cloud infrastructure that is so monopolistic is problematic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: A massive worldwide outage, from banks, to airline, and apps. It's a real eye-opener about our tech-focused lives.

And into the danger zone. A singer calling out President Trump after he posted this A.I. video using his song without permission.

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[06:46:24]

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JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": Amazon Web Services was hit by a massive outage that brought down major apps and websites, like Fortnite, Snapchat and Facebook.

So, if you're keeping track of the things that are currently shut down, it's the government, the internet and the New York Jets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: While Monday's massive global outage of Amazon Web Services may have been a big joke on late night, businesses around the world weren't laughing. Factories, airlines, social media sites, banking services and more all faced outages, which knocked out services for millions of people around the world for several hours. So, some cybersecurity experts say the total financial impact of the outage could easily reach hundreds of billions of dollars. It also exposed how fragile the modern internet can be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THERESA PAYTON, FORMER BUSH ADMINISTRATION CIO: This was not a cyber incident based on AWS' reporting, that technology will fail us. Just like, unfortunately, our appliances in our house can fail, our car can fail, technology can fail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now to talk about this is Sultan Meghji, former chief innovation officer at the Federal Deposit (ph) Insurance Corporation.

So, Sultan, thank you so much for being with us.

And I understand deep in your career you actually worked on the earliest web browsers. So, you know about this sort of promise and challenge of the internet.

SULTAN MEGHJI, FORMER CHIEF INNOVATION OFFICER, FEDERAL DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORP (FDIC): Absolutely. Thanks for having me this morning.

CORNISH: AWS is the Amazon Web Service. It makes up 40 percent of the world's cloud computing. And this problem started in one building in Virginia. How is that possible?

MEGHJI: Well, one of the things Amazon has done for the last few decades, in order to get the kind of scale they've needed, is they've automated all of their data centers. And in doing so, you can misconfigure one little file in one data center and take out an incredible amount of the data storage needs for most of the applications inside of their infrastructure. And that's exactly what happened.

CORNISH: How come companies aren't keeping their stuff in other places? Like even I have my backups in multiple spots, and they could be with Microsoft. They could have more with Google. Like, what has been traditionally their argument against creating redundancies?

MEGHJI: Well, most organizations now don't have the technical staff or the technical budget to invest in multiple different cloud infrastructures at the same time. They're -- they are quite different. If you put stuff in Amazon, you have to change it in order to make it work in Microsoft or Google or any other infrastructure. And so many applications built over the last decade or so are not designed to be highly available. They're not designed to live in multiple environments at the same time. And because of that, they are very fragile, and they can be taken down by an error just like this.

CORNISH: The last question I have is, I'm under the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, we've had all of this money in damages, but people, these companies, kind of got repaid in like credits from Amazon, and it just feels like, is that accountability? Like, it cost us all something. Did it cost Amazon anything?

MEGHJI: At the end of the day it's not going to. They're still going to make hundreds of billions of dollars a year in this revenue. And it's almost impossible to get out of that infrastructure once you're in. So, it's sort of like your cell phone doesn't work for a few days and they take a dollar or two off your bill, but you're still going to pay them hundreds of dollars a month for your cell phone.

CORNISH: Government regulation, is that an option, or have the companies kind of convinced the government they don't need it?

[06:50:00]

MEGHJI: Well, tech companies are great at lobbying, so I'd be very surprised if we saw a new regulation out of this.

CORNISH: Sultan Meghji is former chief innovation officer at the FDIC.

Thank you for your time.

MEGHJI: Thank you.

CORNISH: OK, so demolition of the historic White House East Wing has begun. It's set to make way for the president's new multimillion dollar ballroom. It follows other recent efforts by President Trump to modernize the White House, including new flagpoles, paving over the Rose Garden, and decking out the Oval Office walls with gold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're building a ballroom. They've wanted a ballroom for 150 years. And I'm giving that honor to this wonderful place. I think we should do it. This was the ballroom. And this room holds 88 people. And the -- and the new one will hold 999 people, which is a difference. I say 999 because I didn't want to crack 1,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The demolition itself is stirring up debate from Democrats. California's Gavin Newsom tweeted that Trump is "ripping apart the White House, just like he's ripping apart the Constitution."

But this isn't the first time the White House has undergone a major renovation. This is just some of the biggest ones over time, including construction of the West and East Wings, the Press Briefing Room, not to mention the swimming pool, bowling alley, tennis courts and basketball hoops that were added over the years.

The group chat is back.

CORNISH: Obviously, Newsom likes to troll the White House, but is anyone actually noticing the scale of this building right now? OLORUNNIPA: I think the imagery of seeing the East Wing defaced in

that way and being broken down when the president himself said that this was not going to interfere with what was already there and that this was not going to be an attack on the historic nature of that building, I think that did jar a lot of people.

CORNISH: Yes.

OLORUNNIPA: It was shocking. But no one's really taking any steps to stop this president. He's redone the Rose Garden. He's redoing the inside of the White House, the Oval Office, and now this big ballroom. It sounds like he is full speed ahead with this, and there's not much that's going to stop him.

CORNISH: Like all renovation projects, this is bigger than we were told and it looks a lot messier.

ROCHA: And (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: But can you talk -- people aren't really, I think, maybe it's not the scale. Maybe it's the differences. And I know the Rose Garden thing really got to people because it is a lyric from a Joni Mitchell song, but is this -- this is just a bigger ballroom.

ROCHA: I remember when the president came in and said he was going to save all this money for the American taxpayers and brought in all the folks, including Elon Musk. This thing's going to cost -- on top of it defacing the East Wing, almost $200 million. Yesterday and last night I talked about Kristi Noem and the government buying her two private jets that would cost $178 million. And if I didn't miss something right, he just gave Argentina $20 billion. And I find that ironic, at the same time in America, this week, kids that are on SNAP benefits and Social Security checks may not be going out because our government's shut down. I just think that this is not the America I want it to be.

DAVIS: OK, I want to correct you.

ROCHA: Oh -- oh, do all of this to me.

DAVIS: It's all private money. And that's the difference. I mean, I spent four years in that building. And, believe me, they're -- every president does try to modernize, and it usually does need modernization. This is obviously a huge project. But the president -- President Trump is raising $250 million from the private sector, which I don't think he could have been able to do this if he didn't get --

CORNISH: Yes.

ROCHA: So there's going to be sponsor logos on the --

DAVIS: Probably. I mean, yes, just like --

CORNISH: (INAUDIBLE) watching him --

ROCHA: Sponsored by Crest. CORNISH: He was raking Jerome Powell over the -- the coals for

renovating a building.

DAVIS: But that was taxpayer money. I mean this is really not -- this is why I think this is a little different. Whether you agree with it or not, or if it's just another Trump issue that people don't agree with, I mean he is raising the money from the private sector because he knows he couldn't get it done otherwise.

CORNISH: All right, you guys, one more in the culture -- culture zone. Singer Kenny Loggins says he wants nothing to do with the most recent A.I. generated video from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNY LOGGINS, MUSICIAN (singing): I went to the danger zone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The video showing king Trump jumping on protesters this weekend drew Loggins scorn when they used "Danger Zone," which he sang for the "Top Gun" movie.

So, in a statement to NPR, Loggins demanded the president take the video down, before adding, "I can't imagine why anybody would want their music used or associated with something created with the sole purpose of dividing us." The White House responded to NPR with a meme featuring the "Top Gun" movie quote, "I feel the need for speed."

Group chat is back.

I wanted to talk about this because Loggins response wasn't, I don't like Trump. Please stop using my song. His response was, why would I want my music involved in something divisive? And I thought that that was kind of a thoughtful response, frankly.

OLORUNNIPA: Yes, I mean, this is all very unserious coming from the president of the United States.

CORNISH: You mean A.I. slop of an actual defecating jet is not policy?

OLORUNNIPA: Actual -- yes.

CORNISH: Not? OK.

OLORUNNIPA: Yes, actual slop. And, you know, attacking Americans who are in that imagery sort of just using their First Amendment rights.

[06:55:03]

This is, obviously, the president sort of trying to get back at his critics and trying to troll them.

But we are, as Chuck said, in a government shutdown. We should be focusing on how to make sure that our government is open. And I'm not surprised that Kenny Rogers (ph) was not happy to see -- CORNISH: Kenny Loggins, Toluse, OK.

OLORUNNIPA: Kenny Loggins was not happy seeing his -- his music. I like the song. Was not happing seeing his music used by the president.

CORNISH: Yes, no, no, that's true.

Let me turn to my messaging folks then.

I understand trolling works. I get it, right, that's what Newsom is trying to do. But it's been interesting how aggressive this White House has been with the A.I. slop. Just like, when in doubt, generate something completely bonkers.

DAVIS: Right. And people watch it. I mean you know -- what were you talking about last night? Because he's a social -- not -- you didn't say this, but a social media -- he knows how to use it better than everybody. I mean whether you agree with it or not.

CORNISH: He is the -- he is the social media age president, for sure.

ROCHA: Yes, and people spend all day scrolling on their phones. See, like I'm following some A.I. monkey thing that I love watching because he makes me laugh. Like, that's what the American people are doing.

I think it's totally ludicrous and everything we're talking about, but, sadly, that's what Americans do all day is they scroll on their phones and look at these things.

DAVIS: I wonder how many people watched that video.

CORNISH: Oh, really? Yes.

DAVIS: The other thing is that I think is interesting is, we've done way too many campaigns. I've had so many times -- maybe this is just for Republicans -- but I think this happened to Hillary too, is when artists don't like their political candidate, they come up and say, don't use my --

CORNISH: Yes.

DAVIS: I mean, like, George Bush wasn't allowed to use anyone cool.

CORNISH: No, that's fair. I mean I --

DAVIS: We were allowed to use Kid Rock.

CORNISH: I still think pooping jet is a lot. Like, you know, I still think Kenny Loggins in the battle for good taste is doing God's work. But, yes, for sure.

DAVIS: If someone -- if someone's like, oh, that's nothing -- ever going to be more surprising than this. There always is, so.

CORNISH: Get ready.

Let's talk about what is in our group chats.

Toluse, can I start with you?

OLORUNNIPA: Lindsey Halligan, the U.S. attorney for Eastern Virginia, who was plucked out of obscurity by President Trump, decided to use her time, even though she's prosecuting some of the most politically contentious cases in the country, to text a lawfare reporter about the case on Signal and divulge information that typically is not divulged in the middle of a case against someone like Letitia James, the attorney general of New York, or James Comey, the former FBI director.

CORNISH: Wait, so your group chat is about another group chat, and that one is between a prosecutor and a reporter. I thought the White House had kind of told everyone, guys, chill with Signal.

OLORUNNIPA: No, Signal-gate was not enough. They decided -- and she reached out specifically to this reporter. And, you know, the rest is history. The report, obviously, (INAUDIBLE) --

CORNISH: We know people love to beat up on a reporter if they don't like a story, though. Does this feel actually kind of on brand?

DAVIS: Yes. I mean --

CORNISH: You guys are like, who among us hasn't -- hasn't texted a reporter inappropriately?

ROCHA: Exactly.

So, in my group chat, if you've been following the Senate Maine race, Graham Platner, the oyster farmer, the common guy, the rugged guy, I love Graham Platner. I think he's good for our party. But there's been a ton of opposition research dumped on him. Old things that have been like pulled down from his Reddit. The Democratic Party and other folks in the establishment don't like that he's running and they're trying to put things out there and paint him in the wrong picture.

Listen to me, Democrats. We need somebody like Graham Platner. We need regular folks running. What he's doing is really good for our party. And as a former bouncer in a club, just like Graham Platner, I got your back. And I'm coming to Maine this weekend and we should sit down.

DAVIS: Wow.

CORNISH: Why do establishment Democrats text each other saying who they don't like who are running? Like, isn't the whole point that the bigger tent?

ROCHA: Absolutely. And we have been hungry -- we are losing working class men. And when they want to stand up --

CORNISH: What's the argument though? Are they like, this dilutes their message?

ROCHA: They're like he should -- yes, they're like, he has said all this bad things, so they're trying to cancel him. That's the bottom line. And it's just not fair.

(CROSS TALK)

ROCHA: We've all done stupid things in our youth, FYI.

CORNISH: Yes, delete your tweets is what you're saying.

DAVIS: Yes. For sure.

ROCHA: Well, yes (ph).

CORNISH: OK.

DAVIS: But also, he's a Mamdani candidate, which I think is --

CORNISH: What does that mean though?

DAVIS: Well, he has a movement that Mamdani -- Mamdani's supporting him is what I mean by that.

CORNISH: Yes.

DAVIS: But listen, I -- I am watching Mamdani and think, do I agree with his policies? No. But what he's done as a movement, this is not my group chat, but I do think it's important. This is a movement that he's started, just like Trump did. And so, these are the candidates that people want because they're so tired of government shutdowns or not doing anything.

CORNISH: Yes. And also their deft handling of social media, which we just talked about.

ROCHA: Just talked about, right?

CORNISH: If you're going up against a social media president, you better come correct on your --

ROCHA: The American people are hungry for somebody for their government to look like them.

CORNISH: Ashley, your group chats?

DAVIS: Oh, just -- you know, mine was much more exciting than yours. More exciting.

CORNISH: We don't review each other's group chats, OK.

DAVIS: I'm -- that was like a joke.

ROCHA: (INAUDIBLE).

DAVIS: Because I was very shocked that Thune came out last night and said he's not going to bring up the Russian sanctions bill anymore.

CORNISH: This is Senator John Thune --

DAVIS: Yes.

CORNISH: Saying, like, look, we're not going to have this conversation about the Ukraine war?

DAVIS: We're going to watch what's happening in Budapest. But then last night, the talks fell apart between, you know, our secretary of state and their equivalent. And so --

CORNISH: And it's interesting because the Senate is supposed to be where, in the Republican Party, there are more people inclined to do interventions abroad.

[07:00:01]

DAVIS: I mean, they're ready to go.

CORNISH: Yes.

DAVIS: I think that there's -- listen, we don't understand the back negotiations that are happening on it. We don't -- we're not privy to it right now. But that delay shows me that maybe there's potential change or potential --

CORNISH: All right, usually when you guys bring something up, many days later it comes out for real.

DAVIS: Wow.

CORNISH: So, thank you for sharing your group chats. You guys, thanks for waking up with us. We've got the headlines next on "CNN NEWS CENTRAL." I'm Audie Cornish. Stay with us.