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Trump Calls off Troops to San Francisco; Scott Thomsen is Interviewed about U.S. Ranchers; Mafia-Linked Poker Games Used Tech to Cheat. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 24, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:33:17]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.

President Trump abruptly ending all trade talks with Canada. In a fiery late night post, he's accusing Ontario of airing a, quote, "fake" Reagan ad criticizing tariffs. The ad actually uses part of a speech from the former president in 1987. The Ronald Reagan Foundation called the ad misleading. In response, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney vowed to double exports beyond the U.S., declaring the decades long economic bond over.

And Alaska Airlines resumes operations after an I.T. outage. But there's still headaches at the airports, with more than 100 of their flights canceled so far today. All U.S. flights were grounded last night. The stoppage was in place for around eight hours.

And New York Attorney General Letitia James is due in court this morning in Virginia. James is facing federal charges of bank fraud and making false statements tied to a 2020 mortgage application. James calls the case politically motivated, and she sued the president and his company. She also denies any wrongdoing.

And San Francisco spared from President Trump's federal law enforcement surge thanks to a little help from his friends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Maybe you heard we were going to do a big surge in San Francisco. But I call -- got a great call from some incredible people. Some friends of mine. Very successful people. Marc, who's everybody knows him, and Jensen. Everybody knows Jensen. Nvidia. And others called me from San Francisco. And they said, we're working really, really hard with the mayor and we're making progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:35:07]

CORNISH: In case you don't know them, he's talking about talks with the CEOs of Nvidia, Salesforce, and, of course, the mayor of San Francisco, late last night who helped change his mind. San Francisco's mayor says the city is ready if the president changes his mind again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR DANIEL LURIE, SAN FRANCISCO: We appreciate that the president understands that we are the global hub for technology. And that when San Francisco is strong, our country is strong.

We have a plan in place that can be activated at any moment.

It is my sincere hope that we never have to put that planning into action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Group chat is back.

And, Noel, I was going to start this as like a -- talking about how Democrats turned the tide. Maybe there's a new -- but then I was like, oh, actually --

NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: This is CEOs.

CORNISH: OK. Tell me more about that relationship because, obviously, Silicon Valley and San Francisco, there is clash there. Those tech people are always complaining about San Francisco themselves.

KING: That's exactly right. And Marc Benioff recently, one of the big CEOs, came out and said, you know, in the pages of "The New York Times," I believe it was, we welcome federal troops to San Francisco. He got so much pushback. That is still -- it is still not considered, I think, appropriate in tech circles to say, yes, bring in the troops.

These deployments in other cities have -- I mean look at Chicago. Does anyone in San Francisco want what's happening in Chicago right now? No, they don't.

So, I think what we're hearing is that, you know, the Democratic mayor found a way to communicate with President Trump. And he said, you know, we don't need this. He kind of pacified the president. But then the president essentially says, no, see, it was the CEOs who called me and said, ah, it's fine, we don't need them here.

CORNISH: But is that wrong, given what we know about how he feels about the business community?

KING: I think it's OK. I mean, it's lowering the temperature.

CORNISH: Well, do you think that -- and maybe, Eugene, I should ask you. I mean, should Democrats be finding those ways to the president's heart/wallet? EUGENE SCOTT, VISTING FELLOW, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY AGORA

INSTITUTE: Absolutely. I mean Gavin Newsom is crediting the mayor of San Francisco with standing up to Trump, but we just saw who it was. And so perhaps the Democrats in other states may want to say, who in our community has the ear of the president, who can talk to him and get through to him in ways that we can't?

I do think it's worth noting, though, that, like, things still seem to be moving forward with like Oakland on the other side of the bay, and that could still have some real ramifications on what happens in San Francisco.

CORNISH: Does Oakland need to find a billionaire to call him?

ROB BLUEY, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Perhaps. I mean, I -- I agree on that point. I mean we know from -- from history and President Trump's time in office that those are the people who he listens to and respects, particularly because he came from the business world himself. And so, it's perhaps a model that other cities could, could use.

I don't know that the governor of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago are at a point, though, where they can maybe reverse the tides of what Noel was talking about earlier.

CORNISH: Yes. And, interestingly, you don't -- even though Newsom has been there trolling and talking, that's just simply not the path that the San Francisco mayor took.

KING: Right.

CORNISH: Of like public battling, trolling.

KING: Exactly. It was quiet. It was -- it was behind closed doors. It was, I'm -- I've heard that the San Francisco mayor, I think I read this in "Politico," he doesn't even say Trump's name. He's like, I am simply not going to go to war with this man. I'm going to keep it copacetic.

CORNISH: Yes. OK. We'll see.

You guys, I want to turn to something else briefly, which is that some cattle ranchers are saying they actually feel betrayed by the president. And here's why. They've got a shrinking cattle supply. And that means that meat prices have been soaring across the country. And to get prices down, the president wants to buy lower priced beef from Argentina. And he's already announced a $20 billion currency swap to boost Argentina's struggling economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only price we have that's high is beef, and we'll get that down. And one of the things we're thinking about doing is beef from Argentina.

REPORTER: But my question is, what do you have to say to U.S. farmers who feel that the deal is benefiting Argentina more than it is them as they are a competing marketer (ph)?

TRUMP: Look, look, Argentina is fighting for its life, young lady. You don't know anything about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Cattle ranchers are worried that the president's plan could bankrupt them. The head of the Cattlemen's Association says, "a deal of this magnitude with Argentina would undercut the very foundation of our cattle industry."

So, I want to talk about this with Scott Thomsen, a cattle rancher from Nebraska.

Good morning, Scott. Thanks for being with us.

SCOTT THOMSEN, FOURTH-GENERATION CATTLE, CORN AND SOYBEAN FARMER: Good morning.

CORNISH: So, I don't know if you heard there what the president had to say to that reporter where he's like, look, you don't know what you're talking about. I mean what do you hear in his message to people in your community?

THOMSEN: Well, the import market for beef is a -- is a big part of why we're in this problem. The new world screwworm in Mexico shut down Mexican imports. And that's what put a squeeze on supplies. And that's what's increased beef prices.

You know, we're -- we're finally at a point, as producers, where we're profitable enough, where we're going to expand the herd, which will in a sense increase the amount of beef production, which will lower price. But it just does not happen overnight.

CORNISH: In the meantime, and I don't know what your political leanings are, but do you have any frustration with how the president is talking about this?

[06:40:06]

Because it sounds like he's sort of saying, look, we've brought down other prices and the cost of beef, which -- which has been up, I think the highest it's been in the last couple of years, $6 a pound. He's saying, look, we're going to get that price down too, and here's the solution.

THOMSEN: You know, I -- I support a lot of his policies, but I think he missed the mark big time here. I think we need to rebuild the domestic beef production herd, whereas we don't have to rely on imports. We produce the safest, highest quality of beef right here in this country. And that takes variables out of the equation, like a screwworm or something like you would have in some of these other parts of the world.

CORNISH: Can you talk to me about what that could mean, this deal with Argentina, or just further pressure on the business? What's happening in your group chats? Are people actually worried about this threatening their business?

THOMSEN: Yes, it does. It puts pressure on us if the price goes down. You know, if -- if we decide -- if I decide, as a producer, that I'm going to grow my herd numbers, I have to retrain those heifers for 18 months, two years before I get a calf on the ground. So, you're going to -- you got to hope that that market's stable for the next two years to really incentivize guys to grow their herds. Otherwise, you know, if we think that beef prices are going to go back down to where they're barely profitable or not profitable at all, we're not going to see those numbers expand.

CORNISH: What message do you have for President Trump?

THOMSEN: I think, just like President Trump would like to bring production back into this country, it takes time. I would like to see beef production be pretty much 100 percent domestically raised. It's the safest, most ethical quality product we can buy. And we have the capacity here to raise all the beef we need.

CORNISH: OK, Scott Thomsen, thank you so much for your time. Hope to talk with you again.

THOMSEN: Thank you very much.

CORNISH: And if you're watching right now, you should know we're a podcast too. Scan the QR code below. You can find the group chat there, because CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts. And go ahead and share. We appreciate you.

Next on CNN THIS MORNING, hidden cameras, x-ray tables, the high-tech tricks used at the center of the gambling bust involving the NBA.

And a man is going to court to fight his arrest for blasting Darth Vader's theme at National Guard troops. Can the empire silence the force of free speech?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:47:14]

CORNISH: Point shaving, NBA game fixing, illegal poker machines. The stunning federal indictments on the illegal gambling against 34 people across 11 states that can at times read like a spy novel. It's basically sending shockwaves through the NBA. The Justice Department says Portland Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups is not charged with fixing games. Here's what he is charged with, involvement in illegal mafia backed poker games. Games which were rigged against unsuspecting players using things like x-ray poker tables so the conspirators could see the other player's hand without them knowing.

CNN spoke with one casino game and cheating expert about how some of this technology works.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAL PLACENTE, CASINO GAME AND CHEATING EXPERT: What happens is, the Deck Mate Two (ph) has a camera in it. And what that camera does, it notifies the casino or the dealer or the house if a card is missing. Also, if you took a deck of cards and put it to that machine, the cameras know every card and can actually sort that deck out and put it back in order for you for the next day or the next play. Well, the cheaters came up with ways of utilizing that camera as well, to know what cards are being dealt and who is getting them. And that shuffle machine is altered to transmit to an earpiece to tell the people who were going to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: I need help. So, it's time to lawyer up with Elliot Williams, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor.

As a person who's favorite film is De Niro's "Casino," --

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: OK.

CORNISH: I was not aware of the advancements that had been made in this technology.

WILLIAMS: No.

CORNISH: What about you? What was interesting to you in this indictment?

WILLIAMS: And I'm a "Goodfellas" guy myself, as I've got to show (ph) here.

CORNISH: Oh, yes, we've got to show people, "Hoopfellas," Well played, "New York Post."

WILLIAMS: "Hoopfellas." Go -- well played, "New York Post."

And again, I -- look, having been a prosecutor, having done cases before, the existence of this technology is mystifying to me. And what you saw there, merely having that device is itself, in many ways, intent to commit the crime is something prosecutors can rely on. But --

CORNISH: Right, like, unless you own a casino, like, what is the --

WILLIAMS: Right. Like when would someone -- and just the possibilities for fraud are endless when someone can, for instance, count the cards and tell, you know, who -- does Elliot have it, does Audie have it or whatever else? Also, the idea of x-raying up through the table, which, again, literally is James Bond or "Mission Impossible" type stuff.

CORNISH: Yes. Yes, we were saying this was more complicated than the Louvre heist of the jewels.

WILLIAMS: It was.

CORNISH: Like, this was way more elaborate.

WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE). CORNISH: But at the same time, I was also surprised to see the name of alleged crime families.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: Because I think there's this perception in the culture that there was a big investigation era where some of these families had been, I guess, legally decimated. That is not the case.

WILLIAMS: Oh no, the five families still exist.

[06:50:01]

Four of the five. And I don't want to try to name them off the top of my head.

CORNISH: No, it's OK.

WILLIAMS: But four of the five major families in New York are named in the indictment here.

You know, they run poker games, or at least had some -- some hand on them. These are big high stakes poker games. You're talking about millions of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars being transacted between individuals.

And when you read the indictment, it's the language of white collar and mafia investigations. You talk about not --

CORNISH: White collar and mafia.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. That was --

CORNISH: OK. Say more.

WILLIAMS: Well, when you talk about the transfer of non-public information, right, which is really the language of insider trading.

CORNISH: Got it.

WILLIAMS: The idea of someone knowing something that the public is not going to have.

CORNISH: Which in this case it's LeBron James isn't playing, right?

WILLIAMS: Right.

CORNISH: It's not like, here's a stock tip on this thing. But you're saying it's operating the same way as inside information.

WILLIAMS: It absolutely is. And one is using that information to enrich themselves in a manner in which others in the public would not otherwise be entitled to. That's fascinating. You think of this as just sort of a shakedown or something with, you know, NBA players or card games or whatever else. But, no, this is really high stakes, high dollar, serious investigations in a serious crime. CORNISH: OK, stick around because you're a "Star Wars" fan and the

next conversation for the group is about "Star Wars."

WILLIAMS: Oh, am I?

CORNISH: OK, a D.C. man is now suing after he was arrested by D.C. police for playing the imperial march from "Star Wars" while walking behind National Guardsmen who were on patrol in the city.

(VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: You can hear some of the music here. Of course, Darth Vader's theme. And one of the soldiers then confronts the man, threatening to call D.C. police. Eventually, the police did arrive on the scene and detained the protester for about 20 minutes before releasing him without charge.

Well, here's the thing. Now the ACLU is suing, saying in the lawsuit, quote, "the law might have tolerated government conduct of this sort a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, but in the here and now the First Amendment bars government officials from shutting down peaceful protests and the Fourth Amendment bars groundless seizures."

Group chat is back.

I'm bringing this up for two reasons. One, because you like "Star Wars" and it's a vibe. But two, I've also seen videos online of people screaming at the top of their lungs at ICE officers --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: Or -- ICE officers or the National Guard.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: Why do you think the ACLU felt this is the one they could jump in on?

WILLIAMS: The best, single line in the lawsuit, and it comes from one of the officers allegedly, says that the officer turns and says to him, this is not a protest. You have to define for me what protest is. And that, on its face, is a violation of the First Amendment.

CORNISH: Oh, why?

WILLIAMS: Well -- well, because, you know, you can walk down the street playing music. You're allowed to do that. Now, the question is, if you're blasting it, if you're harassing someone and creating sort of a hostile environment in which they can't do their job, yes, that might be harassment. But saying to somebody, I have decided that the way you're playing music is not a form of protest, that doesn't work.

Look, again, folks, the First Amendment is like the force. It surrounds us. It penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. And you just can't simply define when it works, you know, particularly as a government actor. CORNISH: Does anyone else want to weigh in with their own series of --

WILLIAMS: Well, hey -- well, hey, hey, hey, you know, you had me here. I had to.

CORNISH: No, it is fair. It's fair. I'm just thinking about it. I mean it's better than getting a sandwich thrown at you, you know what I mean?

KING: Yes, throwing a sandwich, yes.

CORNISH: Like, keeping the bar low. But I also think it's a way of people finding ways to protest where they actually probably feel pretty scared to do so. I don't know, am I misreading that, anyone?

BLUEY: Scared to protest?

CORNISH: Yes. It's like, you could be deemed a person who's like a far left Antifa something, something. And so if you're dressed like a, you know, a stuffed animal or playing the "Star Wars" theme, it's like a protective -- I don't know, it's like a safer way to do it.

BLUEY: Sure. And I think all of us who work in journalism and are ardent defenders of the First Amendment understand what Elliot is getting at. I think you made a great point, though, Elliot, is, over the course of the last nine months, with President Trump in office particularly, we have seen some of these protesters get out of hand. In fact, Audie, not too far from here, I know my former colleagues at the Heritage Foundation are facing verbal assaults every week from protesters who show up and try to disrupt their operations.

CORNISH: Would it be better if it was music blasting?

BLUEY: And the --

CORNISH: Like, would that feel --

BLUEY: Well, actually, you know, Heritage has started to blast patriotic music in response to the protesters.

CORNISH: What is the patriotic music?

BLUEY: Oh, all sorts of great songs from our nation's history.

CORNISH: Is it just Lee Greenwood? Tell the truth.

BLUEY: I think Lee Greenwood is -- is among those songs, yes.

CORNISH: Of course it is. OK. OK. So --

SCOTT: So, it's a protest of the protest.

BLUEY: There you go.

SCOTT: Can people determine whether a protest is legitimate.

CORNISH: What he means is the streets of D.C. are very loud is what I'm learning right now.

BLUEY: Yes, absolutely.

WILLIAMS: Well, here's the -- here's the -- people can, but -- but government authorities and the police can't, right? When -- and this is the thing about the quote that I read. When it starts getting into, I am deciding, as a law enforcement official, that I think the manner in which you're protesting doesn't work, that's when you start running afoul of the First Amendment.

You know, law enforcement or the government can make what's called time, place and manner restrictions, right?

CORNISH: Right. That's when it's like, you need a permit. Yes.

WILLIAMS: You know -- you know, you can play Lee Greenwood here, but not there.

[06:55:04]

But I can't tell you you can't play Lee Greenwood because I don't like Lee Greenwood and want you playing Tupac. That's a -- that's a viewpoint discrimination. And that's not OK.

KING: Can I ask you a question, if you don't mind.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KING: OK, so -- so, I feel like we're going to get to a point very soon where everybody in this country is suing everybody else, especially if we keep sending troops in.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KING: Does this case set a precedent of any sort, or is this just a one off?

WILLIAMS: I think this might -- you know, all cases are just sort of one offs. I just think the interesting thing here is, you can't look at this particular video or this particular thing and say that it's -- it's a harassing -- it's harassing the officers. Like, the officers may not have liked it, but, you know, we have a right to play music for the most part as we walk down the street in the United States. It starts getting trickier, and at least as they frame it in the lawsuit, it starts suggesting that the guys just didn't like -- the officers just didn't like what they were hearing.

CORNISH: Yes, but I -- the thing I'm taking away from this is you saying, when the officer just sort of turned around and was like, this isn't a protest.

WILLIAMS: Right.

CORNISH: Like, you can't have the government just saying this isn't a protest.

WILLIAMS: Right -- I mean, right. For the most part, yes.

CORNISH: OK. For the most part. Unless they ask for a permit.

WILLIAMS: Right. Exactly.

CORNISH: OK.

WILLIAMS: Right.

CORNISH: All right, you guys, I want to get into your group chats because, honestly, there was a lot of things covered today.

Rob, already I've learned something interesting about what's -- what's going on at the Heritage Foundation. So, tell me, what's in your group chat?

BLUEY: Yes, I'm keeping a close eye on the Virginia election.

CORNISH: Oh, yes.

BLUEY: It's coming up in just a couple of weeks. There's a new "Washington Post" poll that came out yesterday that shows that even though Abigail Spanberger has maintained her lead, that Jay Jones has lost his six point advantage over the attorney general.

CORNISH: And we should note, he's embroiled in a text scandal --

BLUEY: That's right.

CORNISH: Because of some sort of violent sounding texts that -- that he made that were disparaging and very partisan. And you're saying that's -- the messaging around that is finally taken its toll?

BLUEY: I think it will be -- will it -- it will be interesting. Will Virginia voters decide to split their ticket and vote for some Democrats, and maybe a Republican. Now, they know Jason Miyares because he served as attorney general for the last four years, and obviously he has a record to run on. So, an interesting race to watch.

And New Jersey, of course, being another one, with that governor's race tightening up as well.

CORNISH: OK.

Eugene.

SCOTT: I don't know if you saw, but the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services rolled out a new revised test for naturalization. It's supposed to have more American history on it, longer essay questions.

I'm a big fan for more American history.

CORNISH: Yes.

SCOTT: But given this current, like, time, I'm very interested in which questions will be on there. What parts of American history will be emphasized? What do we expect people to know or to ignore? And are people take --

CORNISH: But it's also interesting, it's essay, right? Because now -- so now we're fully subjective.

SCOTT: Oh, absolutely.

CORNISH: It's not like, do you know which president or that president? It's literally like, is this giving I love America enough?

SCOTT: And do we want to have this person here, based on this essay answer, right?

CORNISH: Who should judge that?

SCOTT: Yes. Given -- given this moment, so my point, we're -- we're closing down programs and museums and banning books. There's a real concern that a test focusing on more American history is going to ignore other parts.

CORNISH: Yes. I'm also -- it gets at, what does it mean to be American?

SCOTT: Right.

CORNISH: Who deserves to be an American? What do you need to know to be an American? Like, it's actually --

SCOTT: Well, the --

CORNISH: For a piece of paperwork, it's pretty defining.

SCOTT: It is. Your what need to know point is always fascinating to me because I imagine some of these individuals are going to score higher than people who've been in America for much longer.

CORNISH: Well, as a person who was naturalized and watched my parents study for the test, I can tell you, people take it seriously.

SCOTT: Yes.

CORNISH: OK, Elliot, what about you?

WILLIAMS: I -- I think I've said on this program before that I think the only shared religion in America is sports.

CORNISH: Fair.

WILLIAMS: The thing that anybody, anywhere can talk about and agree on and fight about or whatever else. And there's so much -- and we all need distractions from the heaviness of the existence.

The World Series starts tonight and --

CORNISH: Did you say of the existence? WILLIAMS: Of the existence. It was -- I misspoke, but -- but I'm going with it. I'm going on.

CORNISH: Go. Go with it. Honestly.

WILLIAMS: No, the World Series starts tonight. And I -- Shohei Ohtani is not just --

CORNISH: Oh, yes.

WILLIAMS: And I -- as a Yankee fan, this takes something out of my -- what's left of my soul. But I -- you know, we're not looking at the best baseball player. You know, might be one of the best athletes to ever play a sport on the level of you're talking Jim Thorpe, Jesse Owens, Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, whatever else. This is something we're watching magical happen in this player. And I just think something to get excited about.

CORNISH: Very nice.

Noel.

KING: Oh, that was so positive.

CORNISH: Go. Go.

KING: That was so --

CORNISH: Yes.

KING: All right, my group chats are literally blowing up over this interview that Steve Bannon did with "The Economist," where he said, President Trump is going to get a third term very confidently.

CORNISH: Yes. Hold on. We're going to play some of it. People have to hear it for themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, what about the 22nd Amendment?

STEVE BANNON: There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan. And President Trump will be the president in '28.

We had longer odds in '16 and longer odds in '24 than we got in '28. And President Trump will be the president of the United States. And the country needs him to be president of the United States. We have to finish what we started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: He calls them odds. It's also the Constitution. Like, it's a little different.

KING: Yes. The Constitution. And you know what's funny, it's like, I watched that whole interview. He -- Bannon was not always coherent in that interview.

[07:00:00]

To be honest, it was not his best work. But right there, he really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.

CORNISH: Yes.

KING: There is a plan. Makes me nervous.

CORNISH: No. Well, certainly we know to take it seriously, given the last election. So, thank you for bringing that to the group chat.

Thank you all for being with me. And thank you for watching. We know you have a lot of choices and we're glad you chose us.

Stay tuned. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.