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U.S. & China Reach Framework Deal Amid Trump Asia Trip; Mandatory Evacuation Orders Issued in Jamaica Ahead of Hurricane Melissa; Doctors Report Alarming Spike in Chatbot Fueled Delusions. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 27, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: A potential breakthrough in the U.S. trade war with China. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think we're going to have a good deal with China, and they want to make a deal. And we want to make a deal.

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CORNISH: President Trump in Asia this morning, just days away from a meeting with China's president.

Mandatory evacuations in place in Jamaica as Hurricane Melissa takes aim at the island. It could hit as one of the strongest storms ever.

And a break in the case. Two arrests made in the Louvre jewel heist. The priceless diamonds, on the other hand, are still missing.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sewall's (ph) death was the result of prolonged abuse by A.I. chatbots on a platform called Character A.I.

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CORNISH: The dark side of A.I. A mother says a chatbot led her son down a deadly path. A.I. psychosis and how the tech could be fueling delusions.

And a ground stop now lifted at one of the nation's busiest airports, and shutdown-caused staffing delays only expected to get worse.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It will make us, people like myself and other individuals, have to make that hard choice.

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CORNISH: Sticker shock at the checkout. Inflation ticking back up as the government shutdown stretches into another week.

It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. This is a live look at Kingston, Jamaica. Residents there are preparing for a direct hit from Hurricane Melissa within the hour.

The National Hurricane Center has just upgraded that storm to a Category 5 with winds nearing 160 miles per hour. We're going to have more from the island coming up a little later this hour.

In the meantime, good morning, everybody. It's Monday, October 27. And I want to thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish, and here's where we start.

The U.S. and China seem to be back at the negotiating table to avoid an escalation in the ongoing trade war as President Trump's three- country tour of Asia rolls on.

The president just arrived in Tokyo, his second stop in Asia this week. He's going to be meeting with Japan's new prime minister in just a couple of hours.

And later this week, he'll be meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping as the two countries are locked in what's become a bitter trade war with global economic stakes.

This weekend, Trump's treasury secretary says the two sides seem to have agreed to basically not hit each other with 100 percent tariffs. They also reportedly came to terms on issues including fentanyl, rare earth mineral restrictions, the sale of TikTok, and even soybeans.

China is getting ready to make substantial purchases, according to the treasury secretary.

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SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I believe that we have the framework for the two leaders to have a very productive meeting for both sides, and I think it will be fantastic for U.S. citizens, for U.S. farmers and for our country in general.

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CORNISH: Joining me now in the group chat, Catherine Lucey, White House correspondent, Bloomberg News; Isaac Dovere, CNN senior reporter; and Sara Fischer, CNN senior media analyst and a senior media reporter at Axios.

So, I want to actually start with the soybean thing, which I know will sound nerdy, but the thing I remember from reporting on this the last couple of weeks is that China bought zero soybeans from the U.S. They went to, I think it was Brazil, and the farmers really felt it.

So, is this in part, at least this corner of it, really the White House feeling the pressure?

SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST: Yes. Especially because when you're a soybean farmer in the United States, if you're not exporting to China, where are you going to raise your prices to stay in business? You're raising it on domestic sales.

When you talk about inflation, people are still feeling that at the grocery store. That is a pain point for people.

And soy, by the way, we think of it as just being tofu. It's not. There's soy in so many different products, not just food products; other types of beauty products, et cetera. So, this is their way of getting ahead of a consumer problem.

CORNISH: One of the things that's interesting is frameworks are not deals. Not I don't mean to be a killjoy. Do you know what I'm saying?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and --

CORNISH: But I've heard about a lot of frameworks this year, so I just want to give people a -- manage expectations.

DOVERE: And it's certainly not unique to Donald Trump. But Donald Trump is very good at saying, we have a deal, when in fact what we have is a negotiation. And --

CORNISH: Which is better than nothing. Right?

DOVERE: It's better than nothing.

CORNISH: Because Xi Jinping has not been prancing to the Oval Office for a meeting.

DOVERE: But it's -- and look, that was part of the conversation about something completely different when it came to -- to the Gaza situation. And that did get to a ceasefire agreement. Of course, then it becomes, is it held to, right?

[06:05:11]

But even just over the last few days, when we were having this renewed negotiations with Canada.

Donald Trump in a little bit of pique because of the -- the ad that he didn't like, the Canada -- that was being aired with the Ronald Reagan words there that were anti-tariff. Said, that's it. We're canceling negotiations.

So, who knows? I mean, we have a framework for a negotiation, for a deal with China that may hold and may not. Is -- and we're a long way from --

CORNISH: That's every --

DOVERE: -- knowing where things are.

CORNISH: Every reporter cautionary word that we usually jam into a story --

DOVERE: All --

CORNISH: -- to cover our bases.

DOVERE: All caveats justified here.

CORNISH: Yes. OK.

CATHERINE LUCEY, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG NEWS: They haven't had the meeting yet.

CORNISH: No, yes.

LUCEY: I mean, I keep going to is he and Xi Jinping actually haven't sat down yet.

CORNISH: But isn't it remarkable? I mean, I feel like for -- for weeks and months, really, I -- it's not been clear what, if any, the movement has been. And I think China is a little bit like Russia, where it's not so easy to push them around the way that Trump has been able to using the diplomatic tools he has, meaning the Oval Office or just like sending Witkoff there or something. Like there's no Jared Kushner to send there. Like, this just has to get done the old- fashioned way.

LUCEY: And it really seems both sides, you know, pushing pretty extreme leverage here, right? In terms of tariff threats, China restricting rare earths. You mentioned soybeans. "The Times" has a great story today about how hard that's hit in Iowa, a farming state.

And so, they have been pushing really, really, really hard. But with Trump, typically, you go that hard, you pull back. And so that's, in theory, what we're seeing now.

But I think we do have to see how the meeting unfolds.

CORNISH: Sara, people have been mentioning the TikTok deal, as well. Is that just throwing it in for us to be like, "Uh, TikTok?"

Or does it feel like there's movement there after we heard so much about who they've tapped as the U.S. preferred buyers for the deal?

FISCHER: Yes. So, U.S. and China met in Madrid. This was a few weeks ago, and what they agreed to was basically an extension of 120 days to get to this deal being finalized.

There was a lot that was not finished, Audie. For example, we actually don't know how much of a cut that ByteDance is going to get of U.S. sales. That's a pretty meaningful thing, given that analysts expect TikTok U.S. to bring in $14 billion in advertising revenue this year.

We don't have a clear understanding of who's on the cap table, meaning who is actually going to be in this investor group. We know some of the firms. We don't know all of them.

And then lastly, how the algorithm is actually going to be licensed is a big piece of this. So, all those details still need to be hammered out.

And I can't imagine this wouldn't be part of the China deal, because other than soybeans and things that consumers feel at the grocery store and the checkout aisle -- also things like packages, too -- TikTok is one of the most important.

CORNISH: I was going to say, there is a vast creator economy --

FISCHER: Yes.

CORNISH: -- especially based here in the U.S., that cares a lot about the future of that algorithm and the future of that sale.

OK, you guys. Stay with me. We're going to talk a lot more about this and more economic news.

But coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, early voting underway in New Yorks race for mayor. So, how this vote could reshape national politics.

Plus, chatbots taking a mental toll. Why some blame A.I. psychosis and beg the government for help.

And Jamaica braces for a direct hit from Hurricane Melissa. Officials say the time to leave is now.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to be huge. And I will say to persons who are in low-lying area, you know your area. You have seen what it's like, and I'm just encouraging you to find somewhere safe. You may not want to go to the shelter. Find a family member or a friend and ride out the storm there.

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CORNISH: Happening now, Hurricane Melissa upgraded to a Category 5 storm. A mandatory evacuation order in place in parts of Jamaica as the storm inches closer.

The storm is bringing winds topping 160 miles per hour, and it's expected to bring life-threatening storm surge and the potential for deadly landslides.

CNN meteorologist Derek van Dam has the latest from Kingston, Jamaica.

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DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hurricane Melissa is strengthening once again. Conditions are really starting to deteriorate, as expected here in Kingston, Jamaica.

We're getting this kind of first taste of the gusty winds. Some of the palm trees starting to sway back and forth. And of course, the heavy rain is just now beginning. And that is the concern about this hurricane, this slow moving catastrophe that will unfold in this island nation over the coming days.

This will be a long duration event that has the potential to drop months' worth of rain in a matter of a couple of days, and that will most certainly lead to catastrophic flash flooding, landslides, mudslides.

On top of that, we have the potential. According to the National Hurricane Center, to experience hurricane force winds in excess of 24 hours. Imagine that: a whole day of winds in excess of 70, 75 miles per hour. That is just so intense. It doesn't give any of the residents here any time to come out and assess damage, assess the situation, and try to recover.

It is going to be this long duration rain and wind event and storm surge event that could isolate this island nation of 3 million people for several days; with the National Hurricane Center warning of communities being isolated because of the heavy rain and flash flooding, for days.

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We need to rush to completion our protection of life and property. If you haven't already done so, these are the critical moments.

What we're seeing is a slight Westward jog in the projected forecast landfall point. So, that would bring Kingston, where I'm located, into some of the worst rain. But perhaps spare it from the strongest of winds.

Remember, you can hide from the wind, but you need to run from the water.

CNN meteorologist Derek van Dam, Kingston, Jamaica.

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CORNISH: OK, and after the break on CNN THIS MORNING, when chatbots become the crisis. The dark side of A.I. and what you can do to protect yourself.

And in just days, millions of American families will be at risk when SNAP benefits run out of money.

And good morning to a foggy and rainy St. Louis and the Gateway Arch.

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MATTHEW RAINE, FATHER OF SON WHO KILLED HIMSELF AFTER CHATBOT CONVERSATION: When Adam told ChatGPT that he wanted to leave a noose out in his room so that one of us, his family members, would find it and try to stop him, ChatGPT told him not to. "Please don't leave the noose out," ChatGPT told my son. "Let's make this space the first place where someone actually sees you."

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CORNISH: That's the father of a boy who took his own life. And that father claims that ChatGPT helped coach his son through it.

It's part of the growing concern health professionals are now unofficially calling A.I. psychosis. More and more families report losing loved ones, either to self-harm or to fantastical delusions fueled by A.I.

Some families are even begging the Federal Trade Commission for help. One mom told "Wired" her -- her son was going through a mental breakdown, and that the bot was, quote, "advising him not to take his prescribed medication, and telling him that his parents are dangerous."

OpenAI CEO Sam Altman says they're making changes. Quote, "We realize this made it less useful to many users who had no mental health problems. But given the seriousness of the issue, we wanted to get this right."

Joining me now is Dr. Ragy Girgis, professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University and director of the university's Center of Prevention and Evaluation.

Good morning. Thanks for being with us.

DR. RAGY GIRGIS, PROFESSOR OF CLINICAL PSYCHIATRY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Good morning, Audie. Thank you for having me.

CORNISH: One of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this is we've heard about a lot of young people using chatbots as companions. We've also heard about the idea of it being a sort of digital therapeutic for people in their mental health. So, what is A.I. psychosis?

GIRGIS: That's right. Well, thank you again.

There are really two types of A.I. psychosis. One, which is probably the more common type, is when an artificial intelligence -- or really in this case, we're talking about large language models or chatbots -- convince someone who already has a psychotic disorder, or any psychiatric disorder, but especially a psychotic disorder, to stop their medications. And then, that leads to a worsening psychosis or a relapse.

But what we're seeing that's a little more unique now is the second type of A.I. psychosis, which is when a chatbot reinforces an unusual or delusional idea.

Now, these ideas usually don't come out of nowhere. What we understand about delusions is that they lie on a spectrum, a spectrum of conviction from about 1 percent to, say, 100 percent. So, when a chatbot reinforces the delusion, that delusion or the

conviction of that delusion could increase from 1 to 2 percent, 20 to 30 percent, 50 to 60 percent. All of those would be a problem.

But the main problem is when the delusional conviction increases from about 99 percent to 100 percent, because at that point, the delusion or any other psychiatric component becomes irreversible and fulminant.

CORNISH: How have you been thinking about this, given that large language models, meaning this is the Internet, that these -- these chatbots are sort of trained and their language comes from. What is it about those models or about the way they work that helps tip people who are already struggling?

GIRGIS: Absolutely. Well, a lot of people are thinking about -- in the field, a lot of people are thinking about A.I. psychosis as being similar to what we refer to as folie a deux. That's what we call a shared psychotic disorder, in which there are two agents.

One is the primary agent who has the original delusion, and then the second agent would be the person who receives the delusion.

That's not quite what we're seeing here. What we're seeing here is more of a mirror effect. I liken A.I. psychosis or chatbot-induced psychosis more to, metaphorically to the story of Narcissus from Greek mythology. Narcissus was a hunter. He was very beautiful.

One day he was walking by a pool of water. He saw his reflection in the water. He was so entranced by and enmeshed with his reflection, he couldn't focus on anything else, couldn't do anything else. He eventually essentially died and became a flower.

So, metaphorically, that is really what's going on in A.I. psychosis. This is a mirroring effect, a reinforcement of one's own delusions.

CORNISH: A mirror relationship is a private one. So, how do parents or loved ones notice symptoms, find their way into this to kind of break this pattern?

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GIRGIS: Well, one way is by just keeping track of or monitoring a person's use of a large language model or chatbot. If someone starts to use it for too long, isolate, ignore other aspects of their life, they should probably intervene, meaning speak with a clinician.

There are other interventions, though. So, we need to make sure that large language models regularly inform or remind users that they're a machine, and they're not human.

And then the other thing -- the other thing, of course, that we can do is, is just again, monitor these people and -- and do more research into predictors and -- and mechanisms of developing a worse delusional conviction when using large language models.

CORNISH: I'm hearing that it's still early days, then, Dr. Girgis. Right? It sounds like there's more research required.

Thank you so much for speaking with us.

GIRGIS: Thank you.

CORNISH: And please remember that, if you know someone who needs help, call the Suicide Prevention Lifeline. The number is 988.

And straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, President Trump lands in Tokyo overnight. He's set to meet with Japan's new prime minister. We're going to be live in the region with what's at stake.

Plus, a major break in the investigation into the heist at the Louvre. We're live in Paris with that update.

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