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Matthew Samuda is Interviewed about Hurricane Melissa; Indiana Governor Calls for New Congressional Maps; FBI Investigates Hoffa Case. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 28, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

FRED KAPLAN, NATIONAL SECURITY COLUMNIST, "SLATE": It could make him -- it could encourage him to take reckless actions in a crisis, thinking that, well, I can always shoot down the missiles with this system.

So, you know, it's -- and, you know, I don't quite understand it in another way. Nothing works 100 percent, right? So, for these guys to say, oh, yes, it works 100 percent, even if you don't know anything about this subject, why would you believe that? It's incredible on the face of it.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Well, in a way, are they trying to counter -- popular culture can be, you know, a very intense experience for people. And a lot of people have watched this film and been very jarred by what it's saying, especially coming from a director who has done kind of, you know, realistic depictions of other military issues. You've been researching this issue. Was the film jarring for you to watch?

KAPLAN: Yes. One thing I said in my "Slate" column is that I've been researching and writing about this for more than 40 years. And of all the books and movies that I've consumed on the subject, this one felt me -- filled me with more dread than any of it. It's -- it's -- in the -- in the basic aspects of it, quite realistic. Also, I found the depiction of the way people would behave, both before this crisis begins and as it is happening, is also very realistic.

CORNISH: Before I let you go --

KAPLAN: For example --

CORNISH: Oh, go ahead.

KAPLAN: No, you go ahead.

CORNISH: Well, I just wanted to ask you, you talked about transparency and some of the threats if people are not honest about what our capabilities are. What do you see trending at the Defense Department, which has effectively booted a lot of reporters from the -- from the defense building? KAPLAN: What I have heard about is total intimidation, terror, fear, fear of the complete incompetence at the upper levels of the Pentagon, intimidation at so many commanders being fired without cause, in some cases just because they're black or women. Other cases that they've raised critical questions about policy. You know, it's really a bad situation over there.

CORNISH: OK. Well, Fred Kaplan, he's a national security columnist at "Slate." Thank you so much for speaking with us.

KAPLAN: Sure.

CORNISH: Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, payday without a paycheck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard to explain to my six-year-old why we can't go to, you know, fall festivals, why we have to save money to pay mortgage because, you know, mortgage does not take IOUs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Today, some federal workers will not be getting paid as the government shutdown drags on.

Plus, are joint military exercises in the Caribbean a military provocation?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:37:49]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We have nothing in our hands to live on. If a hurricane hits, we're screwed. If the hurricane comes on top of all the problems we already have, we'll simply die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: People in Haiti and Jamaica preparing for a catastrophic storm. Jamaica will get a direct hit from Hurricane Melissa. It's just south of the island now and is expected to make landfall there later this morning.

Good morning to you. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm Audie Cornish.

And it is now half past the hour. Here's what's happening right now.

Today is payday for air traffic controllers. But they won't be getting paid. This is their first missed check since the government shutdown started more than four weeks ago. Some airports have started food banks for air traffic controllers and TSA agents who can't afford their groceries. Venezuela accuses the U.S. of attempting to provoke war. The

Venezuelan government says it captured suspected mercenaries working with the CIA, accusing them of planning a false flag attack. That's when an attack is carried out by one party who makes it appear that another party was possible. The U.S. and Trinidad and Tobago are conducting joint military exercises in the Caribbean.

And a long night for baseball fans in L.A. The Dodgers and the Blue Jays go 18 innings, tied for the longest ever World Series game. Freddie Freeman finally ended it with a walk off home run. A game that went on for six and a half hours. The Dodgers take the lead in the series two to one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's over, baby. It's over. Dodgers!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe it's finally over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I want to go home and go to sleep. Whoo!

CROWD (chanting): Freddie. Freddie. Freddie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Game four is tonight.

And we are still following the path of Hurricane Melissa. It makes its final approach towards Jamaica. The National Hurricane Center issued a dire alert overnight warning of, quote, "total structural failure" for buildings in the eyewall of the storm. The core of Melissa is expected to pass through the island today. This storm has become the strongest hurricane in the Atlantic this year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DUNN, BUSINESS OWNER: We are -- we're very concerned.

[06:40:02]

And the largest storm on the planet, correct, hitting -- hitting just a tiny dot on -- on the world's map. So, we -- we are obviously scared and in some cases not -- not quite as prepared as we'd love to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now to talk about this is Matthew Samuda. He is Jamaica's minister of water, environment and climate change.

Thank you for being with us, Minister.

And, first, I want to talk about the options for people as they go to shelters. You've been to some of these shelters. What's waiting for them?

MATTHEW SAMUDA, JAMAICAN MINISTER OF WATER, ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE: So there -- we have approximately 800 shelters that are -- that are open and have been activated. When they go -- we have -- we have made bedding available. We have made basic sustenance available. But persons are encouraged to carry supplies that would carry them for two to three days. That's a standard disaster warning that we give in -- in Jamaica.

In many of our shelters, we've made additional provisions for water supply and for energy backup. And these shelters tend to be, in many cases, community centers or schools which are built to specifications that should be able to take the sort of weather that we're experiencing.

CORNISH: As we mentioned, you're the minister of environment, water. So, you're aware of the potential for flooding damage here. What is the concern about the water infrastructure and the power infrastructure ahead during this storm?

SAMUDA: So, you know, let's -- let's not romanticize this, right? This is a 175-mile-an-hour sustained winds, a 17-foot storm surge, and 30 to 40 inches of rainfall in parts of the country. There -- there will be flooding and there will be infrastructure damage.

We have 70 percent of our population living within five kilometers of the sea, in generally low-lying -- low-lying areas. So, the risk of flood is extreme. We have issued evacuation warnings and notices for some communities that we believe are at particular risk.

But, as you said, the risk to our water infrastructure, our energy grid and our telecoms infrastructure is -- is also extreme.

Now, we've been meeting with stakeholders in the sector from the very beginning of the hurricane season. We would have had a very bad hit last year from Hurricane Barry. Nothing like what we're expecting in this particular case, but we've done a lot of preparations and a lot of infrastructure work to harden our infrastructure over the course of the last year. So, certainly in the southwest of the island, where the eye is expected to make landfall, much of the infrastructure -- not much, but some of the infrastructure has been laid on the ground to reduce wind impact. Our telecoms have purchased significant generator backup for their cell sites to be able to -- to keep going during and post the storm, certainly within the water -- in the water distribution network.

We've also purchased and engaged private suppliers of generators to be used in times of crisis. We've also increased our fleet of water trucks to be able to respond during crisis while the water systems are down.

But even with that level of preparation, as I mentioned, this is certainly the strongest storm on the planet this year and could be the strongest hurricane we've ever faced.

CORNISH: What's your message to those who are reluctant to go to shelters for a variety of reasons, or feel they'll be cut off from their homes in the aftermath? SAMUDA: You know, the government has done significant studies on the

areas that are at particular risk. We've shared and been open about the areas that are at particular risk for land slippage, for significant flooding and for other -- other risks.

The government doesn't want to separate anyone from their home. In fact, we wish everyone could stay home when we're going through this. But the areas that we have issued evacuation notices for is because there's an extreme risk for loss of life and loss of property. We encourage people to evacuate while they still can. There -- there already many be areas that are no longer safe for -- for movement.

We will evacuate as long as we can. We are using our national bus service to facilitate movement. And it's being supported by the disaster preparedness and the Jamaica defense force, as well as our local police.

CORNISH: Matthew Samuda, I hope that your family is safe. We'll be thinking of you through this storm.

Matthew Samuda is the minister of labor, water and environment.

Thanks so much.

Here in the U.S., Indiana's Republican governor, Mike Braun, pushing state lawmakers to redraw the state's congressional map. He's even scheduled a vote just one day before Election Day. And it comes after Indiana Republicans met with the president amid a broader White House pressure campaign to redraw congressional maps ahead of next year's midterm elections. While it's unclear if there are enough votes to pass the measure, Braun says it can't wait.

[06:45:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE BRAUN (R-IN): And it's got to happen soon if we're going to do it. There's been a lot of jawboning from the White House with senators especially. So, we're getting close.

I think Hoosiers and myself included would be ones not wanting to step outside the normal framework. But when you look at all the compelling reasons, I think that case is sinking in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Indiana now joins several other states actively looking to redistrict. Meanwhile, four Republican-leaning states have already completed the process.

The group chat is back.

I want to start with you, Michelle, because I think this is probably one of the more effective, so to speak, sort of pushes from the White House down to the state level in terms of focus. What do you know about it, and why do you think so many states have picked up the baton here?

MICHELLE PRICE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": I mean the word that the Indiana governor used, "jawboning," is apt in this case.

CORNISH: Yes.

PRICE: The vice president went out to Indiana, had meetings with legislators and the governor there to push this effort. This is something that -- it's almost like an extension of the way that President Trump ran his campaign. His team, and some of the same folks who are still, you know, engaged in his political efforts, they -- they were not leaving anything to chance, including in Iowa. There was -- there was a ruthlessness in trying to win every single county in Iowa. The one county they lost, they fired the person who was responsible for that.

So, what we're seeing this is -- there is an aggressive gerrymandering effort. They're trying to do everything they can to minimize any chance of a classic midterm shift, which we normally see with the other party against the president's party.

CORNISH: Right. Which otherwise known as us voting.

PRICE: Right.

CORNISH: It's the midterm elections.

PRICE: Usually -- it's usually a -- it kind of shifts the other way.

CORNISH: Yes.

I want to play Arnold Schwarzenegger, former California governor. He's a big redistricting advocate. Here's how he sort of diagnosed the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, FORMER CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR: There's this war going on all over the United States, who can out cheat the other one. You know, Texas started it. They did something terribly wrong. And then all of a sudden California says, well, then we have to do something terribly wrong. And then now other states are jumping in. And now this is spreading like wildfire all over the country. And it saddens me to see that we're going in the opposite direction, rather than having an independent commission draw the district lines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Doug, can I start with you?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, I think he makes a lot -- a lot of sense in that. And I say there's a --

CORNISH: But he uses the word "cheat."

HEYE: Yes. Well, when -- CORNISH: Pretty strong, right, from a Republican?

HEYE: When you're changing the rules constantly.

CORNISH: Yes.

HEYE: I say that as a North Carolinian where, obviously, we've just passed new state lines in the state. And the lines in North Carolina seem to change almost every two years. My hometown of Lewisville, North Carolina, was Virginia Foxx's district, then Patrick McHenry's, then Virginia Foxx's again. And we have this constant churning.

And one of the things that's interesting in this is, we hear a lot from the administration. We hear state legislative officials talking. We hear governors. You don't hear a lot of members of Congress talking about this. Members of Congress, R or D, don't like their lines changed.

CORNISH: So, they don't want to push for it.

I do want to play one other thing, which is President Obama, apparently, I think he's in an ad, where he is trying to get people to vote on a ballot initiative --

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: In California.

CORNISH: That would allow California to change its lines.

Here's that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: California, the whole nation is counting on you. Democracy is on the ballot November 4th. Republicans want to steal enough seats in Congress to rig the next election and wield unchecked power for two more years. With Prop 50, you can stop Republicans in their tracks. Vote yes on 50.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can you talk about this? California can't, like, sort of keep redrawing maps to balance all of the states. I don't know if we can put the map up again that are doing this. Like, at a certain point, you're kind of out of luck.

ROCHA: No, it's important to also say, in California, you can't just change the lines. That's why they're having an election.

CORNISH: Exactly.

ROCHA: They have a fair redistricting commission. And they literally have to take the maps that are on the ballot to the voters to vote on it. But that's just California. California can maybe affect five seats moving towards the Democrats, while these other states that are up would move to the right. Let me be on record, and I've said it on this show before, I think

redistricting is destroying our democracy on both sides. They do it every ten years. And that's their right. But it doesn't make it right. Because when you get rid of all these competitive seats, you make a Republican want to move to the right and a Democrat want to move to the left, because that's the only way they can get beat is in each other's primary. So, there's no incentive to work together. And I think that that's really at the root of what's going on here.

And the other piece of this is, Donald Trump got elected because he talked the American people into saying, the system is rigged against you, and I will be your retribution. It's rigged against you.

CORNISH: Vote for me. Y es.

ROCHA: And then this is actually rigging the system. So, I think it kind of backfires.

CORNISH: Well, it's interesting hearing these words "cheat," "steal," "rig," and then having people look up at their televisions and see the government not working. I think it paints a pretty dismal picture.

ROCHA: It all builds on itself.

CORNISH: If you ever miss a show, you want to get in on the conversation, please check out our podcast. If you scan the QR code now -- and, yes, people actually do scan -- you can find it here. CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.

[06:50:08]

So, next on CNN THIS MORNING, anything but Epstein. The FBI has a new priority. What happened to Jimmy Hoffa?

Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have never seen anything like this in Jamaica. And so we have to have everyone prepare and listen to the fact that this is going to be catastrophic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: It's expected to dump many feet of rain on the Caribbean. Jamaica's climate minister could join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CORNISH: I want to bring you images live from the streets of Kingston, Jamaica. An extremely powerful and dangerous storm, Hurricane Melissa, closing in on the island. The storm is packing destructive winds.

[06:55:02]

It could dump up to 40 inches of rain on some parts of the country. The National Hurricane Center warns catastrophic flooding and landslides are likely. And this is a slow-moving storm. That means it could be days of danger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEARNEL CHARLES JR., JAMAICAN MINISTER OF LABOUR AND SOCIAL SECURITY: It is very slow. It is very, very, very intense. And that means the outcome may potentially be extreme devastation and -- and danger.

And I want to tell everyone who's listening, who's watching, the evacuation order is not a suggestion. It is a directive. And a directive to save your life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Hurricane force winds could gust up to 200 miles per hour in the mountain regions of the island.

I'm going to turn now to this highly unusual demand and four weeks of government shutdown. The Trump administration wants to investigate the disappearance of James "Jimmy" Hoffa. He vanished 50 years ago. Hoffa was one of the most powerful labor union leaders in the 1950s and '60s as head of the Teamsters. He was thrown in jail for jury tampering and fraud, later pardoned by President Richard Nixon. Hoffa was last seen outside a Michigan restaurant in 1975.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHEYVORYEA GIBSON, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI DETROIT FIELD OFFICE: July 30, 2025, marks the 50th anniversary of James "Jimmy" Hoffa's disappearance. The FBI Detroit field office reaffirms its commitment to pursuing all credible leads related to the case. The Hoffa case remains an active investigation, and the FBI continues to encourage the public to come forward with any information that may assist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Over the last several months, FBI employees have been directed to dig up files on several decades old mysteries.

The group chat is back.

MLK, Amelia Earhart disappearance. I'm going to be catty here. Does the FBI have nothing else to do?

HEYE: It doesn't seem like it.

CORNISH: It's weird.

HEYE: Yes, I was -- I was in Lake of the Ozark, Missouri, over the summer, and I stopped into a small business called Theresa's Trump Shop. And the lady I spoke to, I don't know if it was Theresa, she talked about the Epstein files. She wasn't talking about Jimmy Hoffa or Amelia Earhart. Obviously, this is another distraction technique.

CORNISH: You see how long that intro was because I had to explain to everyone who Jimmy Hoffa was because it has been a minute and ain't no one looking.

PRICE: Right.

CORNISH: But now the FBI is looking. So, what's the strategy here of the White House? Is it just like, you have to keep feeding the news beast? Like, what's the thinking?

PRICE: There's a couple of things here. The White House, this administration, likes to say that they are the most transparent administration in history. As a part of that, the idea that they are coming in and revealing records or finding new evidence that has somehow been overlooked, hidden, buried, whatever, would further that image they're trying to project.

But this president and some of the people he's put in, like at the department of justice, Pam Bondi, Kash Patel, understand that he also enjoys or recognizes the reveal, the art of the reveal, the media attention. And this would -- would play into that, if there is anything that is revealed. But the question is, what else could these agents be focusing on?

CORNISH: OK. In the meantime, let's talk about what's in your group chats because if it's not this, I'm sure it's something else.

I know, for me, I have a lot of family in Jamaica, and so my group chats and WhatsApp groups are about what's going on there. And I'm wondering for you guys what you're talking about.

ROCHA: As I said, I spent the weekend in Maine, and I want to highlight, I got to tour an American manufacturing plant. It's just very seldom I get to do, American made, union made, U.S. workers, workers with collective bargaining agreements with the steelworkers. It was refreshing to see.

And I went into the factory and actually talked to the workers, like, this is not happening in America very much. And Covid actually saved their lives because they were making masks. Shout out to Ben Waxman (ph) and his wife. They're doing great work up there. But these tariffs really will affect the work up there.

CORNISH: OK.

For you?

PRICE: Well, it was a lot of the fears about air travel right now. If there's going to be flight delays with the air traffic controllers who -- who are squeezed and calling out sick as they're not getting paid. Just questions about, you know, do you need to rethink where you're going to fly in if there's a lot of problems right now (INAUDIBLE)?

CORNISH: Yes. And it's interesting. This is not the '80s where people are sort of like, air traffic controllers, get back to work, you know? Like, people see a different environment for those folks, especially with the crashes at the start of the year, the near misses. So, it's interesting to see a slightly more sympathetic view, I think, from the public. PRICE: And understanding how much pressure they're under and how short

staffed they already were before the shutdown even.

CORNISH: Exactly.

All right, Doug, last word to you.

HEYE: Baseball. I've been talking a lot with friends about baseball. And until last night, my favorite moment of the season was just last week where the new Pope Leo was in Rome and somebody yelled, "go Cubs" to him. He's a White Sox fan. Even popes can smack talk.

And the more we see him interacting -- and I was overseas last month. You see pictures of him everywhere. He seems like a really normal guy. And I think when he comes here for the first time for his visit, it's going to be a bigger deal than anything we've ever seen with previous pontiffs.

CORNISH: Yes.

HEYE: And as a Catholic, I just love this guy.

CORNISH: And even for Chicago sports fans, it will somehow be the biggest thing that they've sever seen.

HEYE: Absolutely. If he throws out the first pitch, something we've never seen before.

CORNISH: Yes.

[07:00:02]

All right. Well, I know you're going to be staying up again tonight, so you're going to catch a break, you won't be on this show tomorrow.

HEYE: Maybe.

CORNISH: But I want to thank the rest of you for being here. And thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. And "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" is going to start right now.