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Mariana Atencio is Interviewed about Venezuela; Witkoff and Kushner to Discuss Peace Plan; Rep. Joe Morelle (D-NY) is Interviewed about Venezuela. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 02, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:33:44]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. Thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour. Here's what's happening right now.

A federal appeals court says that Alina Habba, former Trump attorney. was improperly appointed as U.S. attorney for New Jersey. Habba has not been confirmed by the Senate. The ruling, the second to disqualify a Trump administration attorney, could impact similar appointments nationwide.

And the winter storm that's heading out of the Midwest now hitting the northeast this morning. Hundreds of flights delayed, dozens canceled. Some roads are already slick. And the system has dumped record snowfall, including in St. Louis, which saw nearly four inches yesterday.

And you know that feeling when you read something controversial and it gets you riled up? It's called "rage bait," and it is Oxford Dictionary's word of the year. Rage bait is defined as online content used to attract anger and increase engagement by being frustrating, provocative or offensive.

And as the Trump administration dials up the military pressure on Venezuelan Leader Nicolas Maduro. Maduro is dancing through it.

(VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, so this is the Venezuelan dictator appearing at a rally Monday. He's dancing to a song featuring his own voice, chanting, "no war, yes peace."

[06:35:05]

He's also looking to rally his country behind him against what he is calling a colonial threat posed by the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELA (through translator): We want peace, but peace with sovereignty, peace with equality, peace with freedom. We do not want a slave's peace, nor do we want the peace as a colony. Colony, never. Slaves, never. Freedom. Republic. Peace with dignity. That is the peace that we are going to preserve. That is the peace that we are going to conquer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now to talk about this is Mariana Atencio, a Venezuelan-American journalist.

Thank you for being with us this morning.

MARIANA ATENCIO, VENEZUELAN-AMERICAN JOURNALIST: Thank you, Audie. It's good to be on.

CORNISH: So, I know you remain in close contact with friends and family in Venezuela as this crisis has sort of escalated with the attacks on these boats. What is the reaction on the ground?

ATENCIO: Well, Audie, what I'm hearing is incertidumbre, uncertainty. We're almost three months into this Caribbean standoff, and people are trying to go about their lives, but they're glued to their phones knowing things can change any minute. There's now only two national airlines that are still operating. I myself, I'm trying to get my own mother out this morning. She's set to fly out at 9:00 a.m. But she's told me, if I have to stay, it is going to be worth it if this leads to our liberation.

You have to understand that after 25 years of this regime, people are strongly welcoming President Trump's actions on Venezuela because we have tried everything to get rid of this regime, including the democratic route.

CORNISH: Yes.

ATENCIO: But the real fear on the ground is that if nothing happens, then the regime is just going to double down and become even more entrenched and even more brutal, of course.

CORNISH: I want to ask you about the opposition. Maria Corina Machado, who is actually set to receive her Nobel Peace Prize, she has been the kind of global face of the opposition. Where is she right now and where is the opposition right now? Are they trying to take advantage of this aggression by the U.S.?

ATENCIO: The opposition, Audie, has been splintered. It has not been in a position of real strength for the last couple of decades. But now, finally, after Maria Corina and her running mate won the election legitimately and were able to prove it last year, we finally have a leader that could actually move a transition forward and lead the country in this time. She's kind of like the moral and the political center of the story.

But after she won the election last year, and Maduro refused to concede, her entire team was persecuted and she had to go into hiding. She's been in hiding for almost a year. It is believed that she's hiding in the American embassy in Caracas. At least the regime has openly said that on national television. And now she's set to receive this Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo next week. She has said she's physically going to go and accept the award.

So, what does that mean? It's sort of -- that's the -- that's the new clock that we're on leading to December 10th, when she is set to receive the prize.

But I really have to say that any transition that Trump brings about has to guarantee not only the removal of Maduro and the four key pieces under Maduro, but also has to guarantee her protection and her role in the transition.

CORNISH: You talked about trying to get your mother out, but we've also heard the president talking about Venezuelan immigrants coming to this country in the context of all this. And I want to play for you something he said, I believe it was on Air Force One.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We consider Venezuela to be not a very friendly country. They sent millions of people. Really probably a number in excess of that. And a lot of those people shouldn't be in our country, from jails, from gangs, from drug dealers, from -- all of the people that came into our country, shouldn't have been in our country, causing a lot of problem.

REPORTER: Does your warning --

TRUMP: And drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Mariana, can you talk about that? There's a lot of people here who came here who at one point had protected status. I don't think they do anymore. What do you think of the way the president is talking about this?

ATENCIO: I think that we have to focus on the real problem, which is Nicolas Maduro and his cronies that actually led to one of the biggest humanitarian crises in the world and led nine million people, including myself, to leave our homeland. So, that's the -- where the real problem lies.

You had a once prosperous nation that has now had families separated, families forced to flee, thousands of people in prison.

[06:40:05]

So, when you talk about Venezuelans once being the number one source of asylum seekers to this country, it really stems from Maduro, from the corruption and from the torture that he has set forth in our home country.

I do want to clarify my own family's situation. I'm now an American citizen. My mother would only be coming here for the holiday. But I think that if you solve the Maduro problem, then you're going to solve the migration problem, because many of us want to return to our homeland. And under the leadership of Maria Corina Machado, this legitimate government that we voted for, we could really see a transition like that happening. And, of course, we're talking about an oil rich nation, a mineral rich nation where we could see a lot of opportunities for our own family members and for Venezuelans to be able to return.

But I think that when you see this bipartisan backlash against these boats that have been attacked in the Caribbean, I really haven't seen that kind of an outrage for 25 million Venezuelans that have been living in dictatorships over 25 years, and nine million people that have had to flee.

CORNISH: Yes.

ATENCIO: If you look at the caliber of that, Audie, it's the size of the humanitarian crisis in Ukraine and in Syria, and it's happening in our own hemisphere.

CORNISH: Well, we're going to be hearing about more of that this week. Mariana Atencio, thank you for your time.

ATENCIO: Thank you.

CORNISH: So, in a little over two hours from now, President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, will meet with Russia's Vladimir Putin. The president's son-in-law, who holds no official position in the administration, will be there as well. The goal? Securing a peace deal to end the war in Ukraine. And it comes after the president's 28-point peace plan got narrowed down to about 19 after objections from Ukraine and European allies over land issues, high-level talks in Florida between U.S. and Ukrainian officials. And as Russia claims to have captured the eastern city of Pokrovsk ahead of the talks.

While the Kremlin has been casting doubt over whether it might even accept the proposal, the White House is hopeful

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Those points have been very much refined. But as for the details, I will let the negotiators negotiate. But we do feel quite good and we're hopeful that this war can finally come to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Group chat is back.

Isaac, I want to start with you.

You're one of the people who sort of pointed out the players here. What do you see in who is going to Russia, especially after all the criticism of Witkoff and his handling of that first draft?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, well, he's clearly not on the outs for the president. He's being sent there. I think the other question here is, what is Jared Kushner doing there?

CORNISH: Yes.

DOVERE: Jared Kushner has no role in the administration.

CORNISH: Yes.

DOVERE: He has no reason to be part of these negotiations.

CORNISH: And he's the founder of a private equity firm. Just so we know what he does for a living.

DOVERE: Indeed. Right. Yes, right.

CORNISH: Yes.

DOVERE: And so he has no reason to be there, except that he is the president's son-in-law. He has a lot of business interests with his investment firm. He was part of the Gaza ceasefire negotiations. Again, not clear why he would have been involved, other than the role that he had in the Abraham Accords in the first Trump administration.

CORNISH: But isn't that the argument? He has a long, like --

DOVERE: (INAUDIBLE) but there -- there are -- he does not have security clearance. He does not have any kind of conflict of interest that he has to follow here. And there's been no explanation of it.

I do think it's notable, not everything is for tat here. But we did spend four years of the Biden administration with lots of questions about how Hunter Biden was potentially leveraging his business interests in Ukraine when his father had been vice president. That was past tense. This is Kushner doing it at the same time that these negotiations are going on with Ukraine and with Russia, and it's happening while we know, in the larger sense, that there are a lot of times where the place -- the point where the Trump administration, government business ends and the point where the Trump Organization business begins is completely unclear.

CORNISH: Begins, yes.

What are you guys going to be listening for?

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: Well, first of all, I don't agree with you. He has a security clearance from when he had it the last time. That didn't expire. It takes usually seven years. So, he should still be able to hold it.

DOVERE: Yes.

DAVIS: And -- but also, he is representing his father-in-law, which I think is -- shows the countries that it's something serious. But I don't think that's the issue. I mean if we are getting to an end of the Ukraine war and Russian war, that should be the story. I mean, I don't know if Jared Kushner has business in Russia or not. CORNISH: I think people are looking at the players because they're

trying to understand what -- what interests are being represented at a -- at the table. That's what I keep reading in the stories.

DAVIS: I think -- I think president -- the president's interest by showing Kushner is -- should be -- is 100 percent being shown by him being there.

But I also think, listen, if this ends, then we get the India trade deal done.

[06:45:02]

Venezuela starts to look a little bit different. I mean we need this Ukraine war to stop so all these other things fall in place.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But the problem -- but the issue is how. How does it end? And the concern with all of these players that, you know, frankly, there is a big question as to why Kushner is there. He doesn't have an official title. He does have all of these business interests. I'm sure he's there to cut his own deal for the Trump family. And, you know, what a scandal that would have been under a Democratic administration. Can you imagine?

But this is focused on how much are they going to give -- make Ukraine give up in order to give Putin what he wants? That was the initial concern with Witkoff there. I don't think that concern has gone away. The president has said, oh, yes, Putin and Russia are going to give concessions. What are those concessions, Mr. President?

CORNISH: Yes, and just to --

CARDONA: He's going to stop the war and not ask for any land back. Give me a break.

CORNISH: Let me just wrap this up in saying that one of the things that is of great concern is for Europe as well.

CARDONA: Absolutely.

CORNISH: Is there going to be a deal that deters Putin? And we're talking all about the U.S. for obvious reasons. But Putin has a longer game and a longer memory.

DOVERE: And look, remember, this is -- the president said that he wanted this done by Thanksgiving. It didn't happen. He had originally said he was going to solve it in his first 24 hours as president. That didn't happen. We do see that that Vladimir Putin is very good at running the clock. He ran the clock during Barack Obama's presidency. He ran the clock during Donald Trump's first presidency.

CORNISH: OK.

DOVERE: He ran the clock during Biden and now.

CORNISH: And now, hold on, we've got another clock. So we're going to -- we're going to -- stay with us, you guys. Group chat is back.

DAVIS: (INAUDIBLE) this weekend. So, (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: By the way, if you missed any of this conversation, that's still happening, we're a podcast, OK. You can send it to your friends. You can talk about it. Scan the QR code now. That's where you find it. CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.

Also on CNN THIS MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The land is easier, but that's going to start very soon. We warned them, stop sending poison to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: All right, so now President Trump hints at a land operation in Venezuela. Concerns about the start of a new war.

And Congressman Joe Morelle joins us next to talk about how Congress is responding to the ramp up.

Plus $1,000 for every newborn. Sounds great, right? But the real question, who actually benefits?

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[06:51:28]

CORNISH: The Trump administration, as we've been talking about, is dialing up the pressure on Venezuela and setting the stage for direct military action against the Maduro regime. The president and his national security team met in the Oval Office on Monday to go over potential options. They included key cabinet members, like the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dan Caine, and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

So, the meeting comes as the U.S. continues to strike alleged drug boats in the region and send more military assets to the Caribbean. And the buildup includes a fleet of ships, along with 15,000 troops. The president hinted more may be coming soon

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And in recent weeks you've been working to deter Venezuelan drug traffickers, of which there are many. Of course, there aren't too many coming in by sea anymore. You probably noticed that. People aren't wanting to be delivering by sea. And we'll be starting to stop them by land also. The land is easier, but that's going to start very soon. We warn them, stop sending poison to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: All right, joining me now to talk about this is Congressman Joe Morelli of New York.

Thank you so much for being here.

REP. JOE MORELLE (D-NY): It's nice to be with you.

CORNISH: So, I want to ask you about a couple of things that are in the news related to this. But first, can you react to the president alluding to "by land"? How do you hear that? Is that something other people on The Hill will perk up at?

MORELLE: Well, I think everyone will perk up at that. A land war is obviously a much bigger deal than what we've been engaged in. And what we've been engaged in has been a big deal. And I think you're going to find Democrats and Republicans. I think there'll be bipartisan agreements that we need to understand far better the legal way in which the president feels this is a legal move, and also understand what's happened so far as it relates to the airstrikes and the controversy involving this -- this latest disclosure about the killing of two survivors of an initial airstrike.

CORNISH: What's your response to Pete Hegseth, the White House, naming the person they say called for this order in their kind of justification for what happened?

MORELLE: You mean throwing Admiral Bradley right under the bus? I think this is, you know, it's indicative of the leadership in the White House, which is to blame everyone but the people responsible here for what may be an illegal order. And I think it's probably too early to say, but I certainly think congressional hearings and investigation are more than warranted in this case.

CORNISH: The group is going to have some questions, but I wanted to ask, why now? Why do you think your Republican colleagues are raising concerns after we're showing a grid of boat strikes?

MORELLE: Well, look, I think people have been asking questions now for some time. I think it's been hard to get any information from the White House or the Defense Department on what's happened. The legal backing for doing this. There have been a number of questions.

The classified briefings have been late in coming. I was in one just before the break as an appropriator on the defense side, but the authorizers, the Armed Services Committee, have been getting information far too slowly for something that's unfolding in this kind of way. And the president seems, again, to make this up literally every day. It's almost like he sits on the -- writes on the back of an envelope or something, and then hands it to someone and says, that's U.S. policy now.

CORNISH: Yes. One of the things Ashley was saying earlier is, this is putting Democrats in the position of defending drug traffickers.

MORELLE: Well, I definitely don't think that's true. I mean Maduro's a bad guy. I don't think anybody questions that. There's a lot of bad people, by the way, in the world, including the former president of Honduras, who's now being pardoned by the president. [06:55:08]

He's a convicted drug lord.

DAVIS: Exactly.

MORELLE: So, you know, look, Maduro's a bad guy. There's a lot of bad people in this. The question is not only, it's what to do and how to do it. And I think that's the question.

DAVIS: One thing that always, I think, unites Congress on the Republican and Democrat side is when the administration ignores them. And so, I think that that's what's happening. And so, I think there's going to continue to be.

MORELLE: Well, and that's the -- I agree with you. And it's -- that's not just Congress. It's -- that's what the framers wanted to be. I mean Congress is the body that's supposed to make many of these decisions. So, we need to be a part of it.

DAVIS: Well, and the defense committees, on the appropriations side, which you're on, as well as the authorizing side, get along. I mean, for the most -- I mean you guys get along.

CORNISH: Do you still get along? Can you verify that?

MORELLE: Yes. Oh --

(CROSS TALK)

DAVIS: You guys love each other.

MORELLE: And particularly -- I mean, I can't reveal what's said in classified briefings, but it would have been hard to tell who was a Democrat and who was a Republican if you didn't know if you were in that meeting. There is real concern on both sides of the aisle about what's happening.

CORNISH: OK, I want to turn to one more thing, which is the economy. So, for those of you at home, you may not be seeing, you know, a bonus at the end of the year, but if you have a kid in 2026, your luck could change, sort of. The White House wants to start offering baby bonuses to the parents of newborns in the form of Trump accounts. Instead of cash, parents would get accounts stocked with a $1,000 government deposit that parents must invest in the stock market on behalf of their child. Then families and relatives of those children could make annual contributions of up to $5,000 per year.

We want to note that the U.S. birth rate has dropped to an all-time low of 1.6 kids per woman. The group chat is back.

Congressman, this idea has come up before. We were talking during the break. I think it was Cory Booker, a Democrat, has brought up the idea of giving kids a chance to invest right out of the gate. Is this a good answer for people's concerns about the economy? MORELLE: Well, look, it's not going to help anybody in the short term,

clearly, putting $1,000 into an infant's account that you can access when you're 21 means there's 20 years of growth. I don't think it's a terrible idea. I do think this, we should stop naming things after presidents. Whether it was Obamacare or Biden Economics or whatever it is, let's just bar the whole thing.

CORNISH: Some people thought that was a mistake, that they should have been Biden bucks or something. No? You don't want to do branding?

MORELLE: Yes, I mean, it's -- the whole thing is -- I, you know, yes, I mean it's --

CORNISH: I won't be looking for Morelle bucks.

DAVIS: It makes it political when you do that, though, right?

CORNISH: Right.

MORELLE: It's just -- it's -- no, I think, Ashley, it's a good point. As soon as you do that -- and, first of all, it calls into question whether you have any humility whatsoever. I think we know the answer in this case. But -- but I think there's certainly a conversation to be had about whether making these investments and making similar types of investments might be a good idea. It's both a Democratic and a Republican idea.

CORNISH: And we've also heard the Treasury secretary last summer suggesting, in a way, it's kind of like privatize Social Security.

CARDONA: Yes.

CORNISH: The grown over here.

DAVIS: We're not going to have any Social Security, you and I.

CARDONA: I mean this -- this has -- this has been an issue -- I mean, I remember when we were talking about this back in the early 2000 when George W. Bush was trying to privatize Social Security. It was not something that was popular with the American people. And so, if this is a back door to that, I don't think that's going to be popular with the American people either.

CORNISH: Very few. Very long back door. It's a little bit like the 50- year mortgage.

DOVERE: It does seem like the key thing here is that it's a -- it's a pilot program for right now of something that, as the congressman was saying, would at earliest start benefiting people 20 years from now. And it is being talked about as a solution to the economic situation right now and to the cuts to the social safety net that have happened. It's not.

DAVIS: Yes.

MORELLE: Yes. DOVERE: It's a potential idea to change things longer term, but it is a question of what's going to be done now.

CARDONA: So, how about putting that money into extending the ACA subsidies for people who need it?

CORNISH: OK. If it makes it to Congress, then you'll message. But hold on one second. I want to talk about group chats for a second. And we have been talking today about the new book from Olivia Nuzzi, "American Canto." The reason why I'm coming to you, Congressman Morelle, is not because you are involved in any allegations.

MORELLE: Yes. Yes, thank you. Let's say that. My wife might be watching. Please make that clear.

CORNISH: Exactly.

MORELLE: Yes, thank you.

CORNISH: However, does this kind of expose, I guess, people -- I brought this up on the panel and people have laughed. They're like, this is why we don't trust journalists. Like, sneaking recordings of things, sneaking into rooms. Like, even the inappropriate relationships. This feel -- is this an occupational hazard of the work?

MORELLE: Well, I -- I wouldn't speak to journalism because I'm not a journalist.

CORNISH: But from the politician side, it's not looking good.

MORELLE: Yes. No, I -- absolutely. I think, look, for people particularly who claim to talk about family values and everyone wants to be greater than thou, and then you find out it's a, you know, it's a messier world. I don't know about their relationship. I've seen a little bit about it. But that's not in my group chat.

CORNISH: No?

MORELLE: No.

CORNISH: Are you sure?

MORELLE: I'm more interested in "Wicked" -- "Wicked" the good or the end or whatever it's called.

CORNISH: Oh. Did you see it?

MORELLE: I don't know. My grandkids are watching it. That's -- I have not seen it. I saw the play on Broadway years ago. So, that's in my group chat.

CORNISH: Oh.

DAVIS: I haven't seen it either.

[07:00:00]

CORNISH: That's -- that's the news, local politician knows nothing about it.

Thank you for being here. Appreciate your time.

MORELLE: Thank you. Always.

CORNISH: Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. Please stick with us because the headlines are up next.