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Democrats Call for Noem's Resignation in Fiery Hearing; Study: Instacart A.I. Hiking Prices as Much as 20 Percent. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired December 12, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIAN ABEL, CNN ANCHOR: Unwrapping Christmas gifts. Keepers decked out the habitats with holiday-themed treats and toys. Don't worry: biologists say these enrichment activities help keep the animals sharp and active.
[06:00:13]
And at a zoo in Southern England, the lions and primates got to dig into some Christmas packaging while the elephants and penguins were spotted exploring other holiday-themed decorations.
Always fun this time of year to see that.
Thank you for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm Brian Abel in Washington, D.C. CNN THIS MORNING with Audie Cornish starts right now.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary Kristi Noem walks out of a hearing after being confronted by Democrats over her hardline immigration tactics. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
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REP. SETH MAGAZINER (D-RI): Go after the bad guys. Go after the terrorists. Do not go after veterans, marines, children. She has lived here for --
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CORNISH: Noem forced to face some of the veterans impacted by the administration's deportations.
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JEAN LEISING (R), INDIANA STATE SENATE: Why would I cave to what I would tell you is bullying?
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CORNISH: Republicans in Indiana putting Hoosiers over the White House and not bowing down to the president's demands.
And it's the strictest warning for a prescription drug, and it could soon be on all COVID shots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER HOMENDY, NTSB CHAIR: It actually rolls back safety to what existed prior to the mid-air collision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: It's a significant safety setback. The NTSB sounding the alarm over a defense bill.
And a counter plan. Ukraine has an idea for peace. But will President Trump sign off?
It's 6 a.m. on the East Coast. This is a live look at New York, New York.
Good morning, everybody. It is Friday, December 12. I want to thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish, and here is where we begin: Secretary Kristi Noem's combative hearing on Capitol Hill.
The homeland security secretary faced calls to resign and was accused by Democrats of lying and violating the law, as she leads the Trump administration's mass deportations. The hearing got off to a rough start.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I'm very privileged and honored today to have my family with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop ICE raids!
NOEM: I'd like to introduce them to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The power of Christ compels you!
End deportations! The power of Christ compels you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disruptions of congressional business is a violation of law; is a criminal offense under federal law. Audience members --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, once the heckling stopped, Democrats pounced. There was an exchange between the secretary and Democratic Congressman Seth Magaziner of Rhode Island.
They demanded to know why U.S. Army veterans have been deported by DHS. And when Noem denied that has ever happened, she was confronted with a Purple Heart recipient who was shot twice while serving in the U.S. Army in Panama back in 1989.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAGAZINER: Earlier this year, you deported him to Korea, a country he hasn't lived in since he was 7 years old. Will you join me in thanking Mr. Park for his service to our country?
NOEM: Sir, I'm grateful for every single person that has served our country and follows our laws.
MAGAZINER: And can you please tell Mr. Park why you deported him?
NOEM: And knows that our law's important and every one of them needs to be enforced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Noem eventually promised to look into this case.
Then she cut the hearing short after about two hours of testimony, claiming that she was late for a FEMA meeting, and then abruptly walked out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's leaving.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just going to take the position that she was scared of my questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Today in the group chat: Noel King, co-host and editorial director of the "Today, Explained" podcast; Rob Bluey, president and executive editor of "The Daily Signal"; and Jerusalem Demsas, founder and editor of "The Argument."
Noel, I want to start with you, because traditionally, people will say that this isn't for an audience of one.
NOEL KING, CO-HOST/EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: Yes.
CORNISH: That any time a Trump administration person is speaking on the Hill, it is pretty much to please Trump and show they're pushing back.
But the thing is, people are starting to turn on the way ICE is carrying out its deportations.
KING: Yes. Yes.
CORNISH: So, who do you think she was talking to and performing for?
KING: You know, it's interesting. I think Kristi Noem was pretty unflappable yesterday, as things go.
I do think she knows that her audience is both Donald Trump and people who voted for Donald Trump, because they are -- they think there's been too much immigration to the United States, and they want it to stop. Those are the people that I think she's speaking to.
I think it is possible that that audience, though, as you point out, is shrinking. It is getting smaller.
CORNISH: Yes.
KING: People are less sympathetic.
I was surprised that she was so surprised to hear about the veteran who'd been deported. Had she read a newspaper, she would have seen that story months ago.
CORNISH: Yes. Let me give you an example. We actually spoke to him here at CNN.
KING: Yes.
CORNISH: And I want to play for you, because this person did a self- deportation. But when you hear his thinking, given the last couple of months, it's interesting.
[06:05:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAE JOON PARK, SELF-DEPORTED U.S. ARMY VETERAN: I didn't want to put my family through everything. And I knew that, if I got detained, I wouldn't know how long I'd be -- stay detained for. And my chances are, if I got detained, I was pretty sure that they were going to deport me.
So, I did talk with my lawyer and everything. And I thought -- we thought the safest way for myself was to remove myself before I got detained.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Rob, I want to ask you about this, because she wasn't confronted with a picture of this person or a quote about this person. He was on Zoom looking at her. And what did you think of that moment?
ROB BLUEY, PRESIDENT/EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Yes, often these personal stories are -- are heart-touching. I think that there are some facts in this case where there was a criminal charge, if I'm not mistaken, with this particular individual.
So, I think it's important to look at them on a case-by-case basis.
But one thing I'll say, Audie -- and this is a criticism of the Trump administration. He promised, during the campaign, that he would carry out the largest mass deportation in our country's history. You can't just focus on criminals to get to that number.
If you go back to what Eisenhower did in 19 --
CORNISH: Did you think the voter thought that?
BLUEY: Well, I think that that's why they elected him, for two things.
CORNISH: Yes.
BLUEY: No. 1, to secure the border and then to carry out --
CORNISH: But I'm saying, do you think the voter was like, "and also people who aren't criminals"? Like, that's always been my question about this so-called mandate --
BLUEY: That's a good question.
CORNISH: -- for deportation.
BLUEY: I don't -- I don't have a specific answer to that.
CORNISH: Yes.
BLUEY: I do know, though, that ICE is not releasing the data. They haven't been as transparent as previous administrations to make sure that we can follow up and actually know whether President Trump is doing that.
And so, those are some things that I was hoping to hear from Kristi Noem that I didn't get yesterday.
CORNISH: OK.
JERUSALEM DEMSAS, FOUNDER/EDITOR, "THE ARGUMENT": I think, though, that there's this -- there's this thing where I really do believe that most people thought that worst of the worst, that going after criminals was going to make up the majority, if not the -- at least the beginning of what the mass deportation efforts --
CORNISH: Yes.
DEMSAS: -- were going to be. And the problem is that, as every president who's dealt with this problem has seen, is that it's actually really hard to find criminals.
CORNISH: Yes.
DEMSAS: Because they're in hiding.
CORNISH: And to your point, for veterans specifically, people are doing more reporting. And the number of deported veterans is more than 10,000 individuals. Like, that's a lot of people.
DEMSAS: These are people who are under (ph) the law.
CORNISH: I don't know.
BLUEY: You're not going to be able to accomplish what he's promised if you -- if you just focus on the criminals is my point. And so, I think this is where you run into the challenge of these -- these heart- wrenching stories that you've showcased, Audie.
And you're either going to follow through on that promise or you're not.
DEMSAS: But I think the point is there are two different promises. There's a promise to go after people who are not just here long-term.
Like most Americans want a path to citizenship for people who are here as children. Most Americans want people who are here for many years and have served this country faithfully in the military to remain in this country.
Most people want people who are recently coming here, who -- who crossed the border illegally or didn't come in the fair way, those are people, people want to see reversed.
But the thing is, it's actually really, really difficult. It's actually impossible, actually, to meet the numbers they're talking about and not go after people who most Americans actually want to remain in this country.
CORNISH: So, the reason why we're talking about it is this movement. What do we mean when we say most people? Right? So, we're looking at some of this polling.
How is Trump handling immigration? We're seeing that number swing. It is now upwards at 55 percent, according to the CBS News/YouGov poll.
Something specific being asked about ICE stopping and detaining people and the way that they're doing it. And that number going up saying, look, more people than necessary -- to your point -- are being taken. That's something that the polling is -- is starting to show.
And then the thing I basically only care about these days, independents. What do independents think?
KING: Independents are starting to --
CORNISH: Let me show you that number, Noel.
KING: Yes.
CORNISH: What are you thinking?
KING: Well, I think independents are starting to sour on these actions. Independents --
CORNISH: Fifty-eight percent in that particular poll.
KING: Fifty-eight percent disapprove.
And I think that has -- in fact, I know that that has moved higher over the past couple of months as people -- again, this is the thing we're talking about.
People think that they're voting for, you know, the guy who's a killer is going to be deported. And then they see the video of the woman who's a grandmother --
CORNISH: Yes.
KING: -- being separated by the ICE --
CORNISH: Joe Rogan talks like this on his podcast all the time. Like, Hey, they told --
KING: Do I sound like Rogan?
CORNISH: No. But it's funny, because it's like, hey, we thought it was going to be this.
KING: Right.
CORNISH: And now look at what they're doing. Yes.
KING: And Theo Von and others in the manosphere have suggested, like, this is just not what we thought we were getting.
Now, often that is what it is to be an American who casts a vote. This is not what I thought I was voting for.
CORNISH: Well, one of the things I'm going to leave the last moment to you, Rob, because Republicans have to go into the next year campaigning on all of this.
And one of the things I'm interested in is this argument that just says, you voted for this.
BLUEY: Yes.
CORNISH: Because then the voter can say, well, then I can vote not for this. You know what I mean? Like, what is the actual message, other than telling people you bought the ticket?
BLUEY: Yes. I think the two things that, if I were a Republican, I'd focus on, is the secure border crossings coming down and -- and really putting in place a system that you didn't have during the Biden administration. A clear contrast there.
And then secondly, what they've talked about: law and order and crime dropping in certain cities in this country. And that has been --
CORNISH: Just avoid all these sob stories.
[06:10:02]
BLUEY: Well --
CORNISH: That's -- that's tough.
BLUEY: I can't see a Republican. They'd be on the defensive, certainly --
CORNISH: Yes.
BLUEY: -- if they were having to respond to -- to stories like that, Audie.
CORNISH: OK, you guys. We're going to talk a lot more this hour about a lot of things coming up on CNN THIS MORNING.
Turns out third time is not the charm. The DOJ fails again to re- indict Letitia James.
Plus, does NASCAR have a monopoly? A new settlement for the most popular motor sport in the U.S.
And it's the year of A.I. And "TIME" magazine is recognizing the tech titans behind it.
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JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, ABC'S "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!" They call them architects. And I wonder, do architects -- is it customary for an architect to have no idea how a building they've designed works, or whether or not it will one day rise up to try to kill them?
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[06:15:21]
CORNISH: It's almost 15 minutes past the hour. Here are five things to know to get your Friday going.
The U.S. Navy submits recommendations to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth for Senator Mark Kelly's potential punishment. It's not clear what those recommendations are, but the senator from Arizona was one of the six Democratic lawmakers who participated in a video reminding U.S. troops they have a duty to refuse illegal orders.
And Kilmar Abrego Garcia now home after a judge ordered his immediate release from ICE custody. Abrego Garcia's case, of course, gained national attention earlier this year when he was mistakenly deported to a Salvadoran super prison before a court ordered his return to the U.S.
And new this morning, the FDA is finalizing plans to put its highest warning, the so-called black box warning, on COVID-19 vaccines. And that's according to a person familiar with the agency's plans.
This is the most serious warning, designed to warn customers of risks such as death. And it comes after an internal memo within the FDA claimed that at least ten children had died from the vaccine, although they did not provide additional details.
And NASCAR settles an antitrust lawsuit. An NBA legend, Michael Jordan, was the lead plaintiff. Here's what happened.
NASCAR teams were granted a permanent charter system for races, something that NASCAR had the power to revoke until now. And Jordan owns one of those teams.
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MICHAEL JORDAN, MAJORITY OWNER OF 23XI RACING: The only way this sport is going to grow is we have to find some synergy between the two entities, and I think we've gotten to that point.
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CORNISH: And the financial terms of the deal were not disclosed, but it's estimated the teams are owed more than $300 million in damages.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's in your group chats. It's in your boss's presentation. It's somehow in every single guy's dating profile.
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CORNISH: OK, we know A.I. is everywhere. "TIME" magazine is recognizing that with its "Person of the Year," the architects of A.I.
The magazine highlighted the individuals who imagined, designed and built A.I., not the technology itself. Elon Musk, Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg, and five other tech titans were featured.
And after the break on CNN THIS MORNING, hoping for a compromise. Ukraine has its own peace plan. But can they get Russia to agree?
Plus, Instacart investigation. Some shoppers say the exact same cart could have different price tags.
And right now, you're looking live at the most Christmas city in the U.S.: Buffalo, New York. I didn't make that up. "Travel and Leisure" says that Buffalo beat out Aspen; Park City, Utah; and New York.
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[06:22:21]
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would be boycotting Instacart, because they are price gouging food.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you use Instacart or any grocery app, this one's for you. You might be paying more than the person next to you for the exact same stuff, and you never know it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Same product, same store, different prices. Well, a study finds Instacart hikes prices sometimes more than 20 percent higher, all with its A.I. technology.
So, take a carton of eggs purchased at Safeway here in Washington, D.C. The prices for that same product at that same store range from $3.99 to $4.79.
Groundwork Collaborative is the group behind the study. It estimates some shoppers are paying up to 7 percent more. For a family of four, that comes to $1,200 more per year.
Now, Instacart said in a comment to CNN that each retailer's pricing policy is displayed on their storefront on the company's app or website, so customers can actually see the difference between online and in-store prices.
Joining me now, Lindsay Owens, executive director of Groundwork Collaborative. Thanks so much for being with us.
LINDSAY OWENS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GROUNDWORK COLLABORATIVE: Thanks so much for having me.
CORNISH: So, you were working with "Consumer Reports" and others, and I gather you got for hundreds of people basically to all shop and buy the same thing.
And can you talk about some of the things that you saw that were different? We looked at Wheat Thins, turkey, corn flakes, and eggs.
OWENS: Yes. So, if you and I were standing in line together at the grocery store right now, and we were holding the exact same box of Cheerios, we would expect to pay the same amount.
But if we open our apps on Instacart, there's a really good chance that you and I are going to pay a different price for that same box of Cheerios.
And we wanted to understand how pervasive this is, how common it is. So, we recruited volunteer secret shoppers and had them run an experiment to understand Instacart's experiments.
And what we found is, for 75 percent of the items in our test grocery basket, Instacart was running these experiments, which means different shoppers being offered different prices at the exact same time for the exact same item.
CORNISH: We were looking at Wheat Thins with shoppers at a Safeway in Seattle. And you can actually see an example of what you're talking about.
For 8 percent of customers, the price was $3.99. Meanwhile, 62 percent of shoppers were charged the highest price --
OWENS: Yes.
CORNISH: -- $4.89. How is -- I know that grocery stores and other retailers have done testing of prices before.
OWENS: Yes.
CORNISH: This isn't new.
OWENS: Yes.
CORNISH: So why do you think it's concerning?
[06:25:00]
OWENS: I think it's concerning because of how pervasive it is and how secretive it is.
These companies, like Instacart, are deploying new A.I. technologies that help them run these experiments in secret. And they're really fine-tuning and calibrating the maximum price they can charge you before you take an item out of your cart.
It's also concerning, because we are already in the midst of one of the worst grocery affordability crises in over a generation.
CORNISH: Yes.
OWENS: Tariffs are driving prices up. And now, adding insult to injury, we have Instacart gilding the lily and boosting their markup on the backs of families who are really just trying to make ends meet.
CORNISH: Is it by ZIP code? Are they looking at demographics?
OWENS: Yes.
CORNISH: Because they're saying in their statement, look, we're not going after any particular person. This is straight, anonymized, like, kind of retail pricing. I mean, what's wrong with doing that if it's not targeting anyone in particular?
OWENS: Yes, we did not find any evidence that they are using your demographic information to set these prices, that they're setting different prices by ZIP code.
We just found evidence of them running these experiments on you in secret. And we also found evidence that, across the board, the price increases are considerable: 7 percent total in the basket across shoppers.
CORNISH: Would you be OK if they weren't secret, like if they just said we're doing this? Or like -- because I'm -- I'm trying to figure out. There's no law against this.
OWENS: Yes. Yes, yes.
CORNISH: So, what is it that you would be OK with?
OWENS: Look, I arguably think this is illegal. It is a deceptive practice. And we have consumer protections against deceptive practices like this.
Because honest markets, fair markets are really the bedrock of a healthy economy. I think an Instacart experiment like this charges some families more, but it's bigger than that. It erodes the health of our economy more broadly. CORNISH: All right. And it's also worth noting you mentioned A.I. The
former CEO of Instacart left earlier this year and now works at OpenAI.
OWENS: Yes.
CORNISH: OK, Lindsay Owens, executive director of Groundwork, thank you so much for being with us.
OWENS: Thanks for having me.
CORNISH: And straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, "We will not back down to bullies: is the message from Hoosier Republicans over the effort to redistrict there.
Plus, Michigan's former football coach still in jail this morning. What we're learning about the charges he's facing.
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