Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Republicans Join to Force ACA Subsidies Vote; Bongino Leaving the FBI; Chris Whipple is Interview about the Wiles Interview; Trump Brags about Success in White House Speech. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 18, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:45]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour, and here is what's happening right now.

President Trump trying to convince you that his first year in office has been a success, from immigration, to foreign policy, to the economy

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After 11 months, our border is secure, inflation has stopped, wages are up, prices are down, our nation is strong. America is respected, and our country is back stronger than ever before. We're poised for an economic boom, the likes of which the world has never seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, that vision is not quite in line with what most Americans are feeling. A Fox News poll shows seven in ten Americans view the economy as not so good or poor.

Four more people are dead after the U.S. strikes another alleged drug boat. The U.S. Southern Command says this hit was made on Wednesday in international waters in the eastern Pacific Ocean. So far, 99 people have been killed since the U.S. launched Operation Southern Spear.

And the manhunt for the suspect in the Brown University mass shooting intensifies. Now authorities are looking for the public's help to identify the gunman. Investigators also want to interview all the students who may have witnessed the shooting last Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF OSCAR PEREZ, JR., PROVIDENCE POLICE: That's all part of the interviews. And actually we're cooperating with Brown to get the roster. That was a study hall, so we don't have the number. We're still getting information as far as who was there. I know Brown sent out an email to the students to notify us if they were present, and we're still getting that. So, I can't give you an exact count now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Police also just released a map highlighting where they believe the gunman was in the hours leading up to the shooting.

Joining me now, Andrew McCabe, CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former deputy director of the FBI.

Good morning, Andy. Thanks for being with us.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning, Audie. It's good to be here.

CORNISH: I want to talk to you about a couple of things today related to the FBI and investigations. I want to start with the Brown investigation, because we just heard from the police chief a moment ago that they're still trying to determine who was in the classroom.

What did you think -- oh, OK, it looks like we just lost Andy. So, I'm going to actually come back to that because that has some details we want to make sure we have right.

And also turn back to the House, where my panel can talk with me.

We are seeing some divisions reveal themselves in the House caucus. First, this week we've got the Epstein files, which are going to be coming out because of a discharge petition. But it was the ACA subsidies that has become the issue.

So, after the passage of the last bill that included an expansion of association health plans, it will allow small businesses and self- employed people to come together to purchase coverage, new transparency rules on prescription drug prices. It doesn't actually include an extension of the Affordable Care Act subsidies that's led four moderate Republicans, three from swing states, we're talking Pennsylvania, one in New York, basically people who won their races by very narrow margins, to break with their party. And they basically signed on to a Democratic proposal that would force a vote on extending the subsidies as soon as next month.

[06:35:07]

So, some conservative members of the party calling this full-on betrayal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC BURLISON (R-MO): To me, they're stabbing the rest of the party in the back.

Like throwing money at insurance companies doesn't solve the problem. This is, to me, a betrayal to the rest of us Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The group chat is back.

I think that Mike Johnson has done better than past Republican House speakers, in that he has had the job longer for three months, so he has survived.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: That's the -- that the -- that's your measuring stick?

CORNISH: I'm just saying.

MAGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: A real low bar.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, NOTUS REPORTER: It's not just that. I mean --

CORNISH: But is this a bad sign when basically people start saying, the only way to get things done is to get in a room, we all sign on and we just vote without him?

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Well, the House GOP is functioning about as well as Andrew McCabe's Zoom account at this moment. But I will say, look, what this is, is that you've got the perfect storm right now, which is that we're getting close to the midterm elections when politicians stop thinking about sort of the party and start thinking about themselves, right? That makes things very tough. You have this very narrow majority that Johnson's been dealing with the entire time. I think quite effectively most of the time. He's been a very good ally for the president, getting stuff across the line.

But the big one is, you are dealing with health care. The thing that has blown up the Republican caucus in Congress over and over and over and over for a decade or more now at this point. Democrats could, you know, they had a really tough time getting Obamacare passed in the first place.

CORNISH: Yes, but --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: But ever since that time, this has -- this has been a really, really tough spot for the party to be in. And so what you're seeing --

CORNISH: Well, hold on one second.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Yes.

CORNISH: People keep asking Johnson, hey, have you lost control of this thing? What's going on? I want to make sure he has his due.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: OK.

CORNISH: Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Have you lost the discharge petition?

REPORTER: Have you lost control of the House?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I have not lost control.

REPORTER: Because this is the third time.

JOHNSON: There -- there are -- there are mech -- look, we have the smallest majority in U.S. history, OK? These are not normal times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, he's basically saying, we don't have the numbers for me to run the place the way you're implying.

DUBKE: Right. And I don't think he's lost control because he was doing the will of the majority of, of his caucus. But what he has done, the real crime here, I think if you're a House member, is that you basically, by allowing these four moderates to go with the Jeffries plan, which is going nowhere, let's be clear about that. That plan is going nowhere. It was defeated in the senate.

CORNISH: Well, but, to be clear, if I make a list of plans going nowhere, we won't have time in the show --

HAYS: (INAUDIBLE).

DUBKE: Well, we have -- no, we have a lot of them.

CORNISH: Yes.

DUBKE: But what could have gone was the other discharge petition that would have been a two year extension of the subsidies. And basically by allowing these four moderates or forcing these four moderates to go sign up with the Democrats, they are giving all of the negotiating power back to the Senate. Because the House is dysfunctional on this bill, they're going to kick back a plan to the Senate. And I think John Thune, the majority leader, is sitting there understanding that in January the Senate is going to have to do the real negotiations.

CORNISH: They will. They will. I don't think the Senate minds that.

I just want to show one more time and let Meghan get the finish thing.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: I don't think they want it.

DUBKE: I don't think they want it either.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: I don't think they want it.

DUBKE: Exactly.

CORNISH: Yes. Well, you know who wants it? These people with these slim margins who did the voting. Underneath their faces you can see, this is how much they were able to win their districts. Plus one. You know what I mean? Plus 6.4. I feel like there's a direct correlation between how slim your margin was and how much you're talking to the press right now about how you took a stand and forced a vote. HAYS: Yes, absolutely. And we've talked about this a lot over the last

year. People are going to have to decide whether they're going to vote with what their constituents want, or what they're going to vote with what Johnson and Donald Trump want. And I think you're starting to see people split. You saw it in the Epstein files. You're seeing it here with the health care. And you're also seeing it with the recent retirements. These Republicans don't want to put up with this anymore. It's not -- Congress is not a fun place to work. And I think that they are starting to see that some of these negotiations are much more difficult to do than actually getting the results. And so, why bother? They don't want to do it.

CORNISH: All right, you guys, we have Andy back after you so unceremoniously mocked his Zoom connection.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: It happens to the best of us.

CORNISH: Technology works (ph).

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: It happened to us all.

HAYS: All of us. Everywhere.

CORNISH: I want to --

DUBKE: Webex, I believe.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Oh, it's going to be Cisco.

CORNISH: I will turn in --

(CROSS TALK)

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Right. I'm sorry. My apologies to Zoom. Cisco, congratulations.

CORNISH: Group chat. This is what happens.

DUBKE: Yes.

CORNISH: I give you guys mugs, and it's a problem.

All right, Andy, thank you so much for being here. Sorry about the connection.

I want to -- we were just talking about retirements just a few minutes ago in the House. And I want to talk to you about somebody who is also leaving, which is Dan Bongino leaving the FBI a little bit early.

It's kind of a big deal because so many times he's mentioned being vaguely uncomfortable. I just want to play for you a clip this past spring that went around for a while. Here was Bongino on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BONGINO, DEPUTY FBI DIRECTOR: You know, I was at one of our facilities yesterday down in Winchester, and a woman who worked there, very nice, said, you know, I used to watch your show. I miss you. I said, you know, I miss me too. You know, part of you -- part of -- part of you dies a little bit when you see all this stuff from behind the scenes.

But I stare at these four walls all day in D.C., you know, by myself, divorced from my wife -- not divorced, but I mean separated divorced. And it's hard. I mean, you know, we love each other, and it's hard to be apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:40:01]

CORNISH: I know you've had a lot of critique for the way this FBI is run. What do you make, though, of the exit?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I mean, as you -- the point you made is, is well taken. This surprises absolutely no one, principally because of comments like that. And I would also add the absence of other comments that you would have expected all along from a deputy director, which is the incredible privilege of being able to work at the absolute pinnacle of the worlds premier law enforcement agency, working with the greatest employees on earth.

And I -- you know I thought it was sad that in some of the comments I saw him release, or at least one of the comments he released last night about it on social media, he never even referenced the employees. So, I think it's the expected end of a -- of a -- of a period where that seat was filled by a guy who was unprepared for it and fundamentally unqualified for it. So, I think, at the end of the day, it's probably a good thing for both Mr. Bongino and the FBI that he moves along.

CORNISH: For the end of the year, I have to ask, do you feel like under Bongino-Patel, this is a fundamentally reshaped FBI?

MCCABE: Oh, absolutely. And I mean not just reshaped, you know, because that -- that would leave some room for efficiencies and changes that were overall for the good. I think what we've seen -- now, there may be more inside the FBI that we're not aware of, but what we've seen essentially is a reign of chaos where senior leadership has been expelled, run out of the building simply because they were there during a prior -- during a prior term, which is now in disfavor. That loss of leadership I think you're seeing subtly in these major investigations that the FBI is engaged in very publicly. People, I know for a fact from talking to many FBI people, people are terrified by the fact that their careers may be cut short simply because they worked on matters that are now disfavored.

CORNISH: Yes.

MCCABE: We've -- they've instituted polygraphs to find people who may be disloyal to the director. These are things that haven't happened in the FBI since J. Edgar Hoover. And they are ultimately bad for the organization and the country. CORNISH: I want to ask you about something else. Jack Smith appeared

before a House committee yesterday. It was behind closed doors. But just so people can be caught up, Republicans are actually digging into his investigations of Donald Trump during the last term.

And CNN actually obtained some of the opening statement in which he was saying, "the decision to bring charges against President Trump was mine. But the basis for those charges rests entirely with President Trump and his actions as alleged in the indictments returned by grand juries in two different districts."

I wanted to ask you about this because you, I don't know if people know this, are the co-host of a podcast called "Jack." So, you've spent all your time just paying attention to what's going on with this guy. What's significant about him being dragged before a congressional committee now?

MCCABE: I think what we've learned, the little we've learned about his statements during the -- during the session yesterday are entirely consistent with the way he's conducted himself in this organization all along. I've had the opportunity to hear him speak in person. He is absolutely clear-eyed and resolute about, not just what they did, but how they did it. The fact that they followed the facts and the law, wherever they went, despite the notoriety and the fame of the person, and at that point, the prior position that that person had been occupying.

This is exactly what you can expect from Jack Smith. He is not going to shy away from a challenge. He's going to tell you the direct truth, whether you like it or not. It sounds like that's what he did yesterday. I think it's a shame that the entire country didn't get to hear everything he had to say. Certainly a matter of great public interest. But for very obvious reasons, the committee did not want his truth spread widely. So -- and that's -- that's what you saw yesterday, an absolute, you know, a clear effort to silence this man who they had to hear from as they continue to try to recast what we all know happened into something it wasn't.

CORNISH: That's Andrew McCabe.

Thanks so much for your time.

MCCABE: Thanks, Audie.

CORNISH: And maybe you missed part of that conversation. We want you to be caught up. And we're a podcast, too. Just scan the QR code now to find it. CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.

And next on CNN THIS MORNING, the White House rallies around Susie Wiles. I'm going to talk to the reporter who conducted that tell-all interview after the break.

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Much of this success has been accomplished by tariffs. My favorite word, tariffs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: He touted all his wins last night, but the losses are stacking up. Can the president recover before the midterms?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:49:23]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": I didn't think it was possible to make Trump's relationship with Epstein sound any worse, but Susie Wiles did it. You're not helping Trump's case by saying he and Epstein were playboys together. That's like saying, oh, yes, I was friends with Hannibal Lecter, but only because we're both foodies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The Justice Department's deadline to release the Epstein files is tomorrow. And White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles told "Vanity Fair," "we know President Trump is in them." Wiles says she has actually gone through the Epstein files and that "Trump is in the file. And we know he's in the file. And he's not doing anything awful." Wiles also shared with "Vanity Fair" that she, quote, "underestimated the potency of the scandal" and says it was, quote, "never anything" she "paid a bit of attention to."

[06:50:09]

Joining me now, Chris Whipple, the writer at "Vanity Fair," who actually had that exclusive sit-down with Wiles.

Good morning. Thanks for being with us.

CHRIS WHIPPLE, "VANITY FAIR" WRITER: Good to be with you.

CORNISH: So, we heard, as you pointed out, Wiles saying, look, this wasn't something I paid attention to, and it sort of became a big thing. Did you get a sense from her about how she thought the administration handled it? Was it a Bondi problem, or was it an administration problem?

WHIPPLE: Well, she was remarkably candid about the Epstein affair, as she was about almost every moment of crisis, from the beginning, when I began talking to her over 11 months. And it was really fascinating because she did -- yes, she did blame Pam Bondi for bobbling, completely fumbling the handling of the Epstein, you know, the release of those so-called binders that she, that she summoned everybody, all these social influencers, to come and see, you may recall. She called them binders full of nothingness, Wiles did.

CORNISH: Yes.

WHIPPLE: And so she was quite critical of Bondi. And -- but it was extraordinary to hear someone as politically savvy as Susie Wiles, who ran Trump's winning 2024 presidential campaign, say that she really didn't think Epstein was such a big deal. She said, yes, during the campaign he would say, maybe I should release the RFK, JFK, MLK files and, oh, yes, Epstein too. It was almost as though this was -- this came out of nowhere.

And she went on to make some other extraordinary statements, including the notion that she and the president had no idea that Todd Blanche -- well, that Blanche, it was his idea to go down and meet with Ghislaine Maxwell. I asked her, is it common for the number two person in the DOJ and the former defense lawyer for the president to go speak to a convicted sex trafficker? And she said, well, it was his idea. They had no idea that -- that Ghislaine Maxwell would be moved to a less secure prison. So pretty, pretty extraordinary.

CORNISH: One of the things that our panelist had mentioned is the idea that she kind of looks at this job as facilitating what the president wants to do versus trying to manipulate him.

WHIPPLE: Yes.

CORNISH: Trying to be the guardrails around him.

WHIPPLE: Yes.

CORNISH: And what did that mean for questions about running for a third term, like some of these other impulses?

WHIPPLE: Well, on the subject of the third term, she was -- this was newsworthy. I mean, she said flatly that Trump knows he cannot run for a third term. So, we'll see how that prediction turns out.

But, yes, her definition of the job is interesting because she does say, and J.D. Vance said this to me as well, that, look, in the first term, White House chiefs tried to look after the -- look out for the country -- the national interest instead of the president's narrow interest. Susie takes the diametrically opposite point of view, which is, you're there to facilitate the president's vision.

The only problem with that is that, as James Baker would tell you, Reagan's quintessential chief of staff, you have to be able to tell the president hard truths. You have to be able to walk into the Oval, close the door and tell him what he doesn't want to hear. And it's not at all clear that Susie wants to do that.

CORNISH: As you've heard the fallout and the response from the White House, is there anything that you think the way the media has been talking about it is taken out of context?

WHIPPLE: No. You know it -- I would say that whenever you hear the White House throw words like "context" around, you know you've done your job. Because what they're not saying and what they're not doing is challenging a single assertion in the piece, or a single quotation in the piece. And the reason for that is simple. They know it's rock solid. And so, no, the notion that it's out of context of 9,500 word piece that gave her credit, Susie Wiles credit, for many things, but was also unflinching. The notion that that's somehow out of context is silly.

CORNISH: Chris Whipple, "Vanity Fair," thank you so much.

WHIPPLE: Great to be with you. Thanks.

CORNISH: Now, it was supposed to be a victory lap. President Trump addressing the nation last night, touting his successes as the first year of his second term comes to a close.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And our border is secure. Inflation has stopped. Wages are up. Prices are down.

We're poised for an economic boom, the likes of which the world has never seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:55:05]

CORNISH: OK, some of those wins have been hard to come by lately for the president. The White House is in turmoil over that embarrassing tell-all interview we were just talking about at "Vanity Fair." And then you've got four moderate Republicans who broke from the party to side with Democrats to force a vote on extending Obamacare subsidies. And lastly, remember, Indiana Republicans, they also broke with the president and voted against redistricting.

Meanwhile, the president's efforts to basically prosecute his enemies, whether it be Letitia James or James Comey, they have so far not been successful. And as we just mentioned, of course, the Epstein files. Despite the president's best efforts to squash the issue, it remains a giant thorn in his side.

Now, I want to note something, which is that 24 Republicans have already announced they will not be seeking reelection. And I'm taking it to the group chat because it's supposed to be a big year. You have control of, like, all the things. You're supposed to be really excited. And instead you're retiring. You're running for other office. You're leaving. You've got Marjorie Taylor Greene out there doing a Cassandra, saying, you're going to lose. So, is -- I don't want to put too much on Trump, but is this a White House that is going into the year with the wind at its back, or head-strong winds?

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Well, look, everybody needs a vacation. Every now and then these guys definitely need a vacation right now. But I will say, in "NOTUS" today there's a report by my colleagues who talked to over 100 House Republicans about retirement and staying in the House. And I think it all comes down to one guy who said, of course I'm running again. Well, actually, ask me in 60 days. So, I think that's where -- but that's where people are at right now. CORNISH: OK. Is that good going into midterms?

DUBKE: I don't know --

CORNISH: If people don't want to carry --

DUBKE: Look --

CORNISH: If you're saying you were victorious and no one wants to carry your message of victory into 2026, is that a red flag?

DUBKE: I have been making this joke when I talk to senators that you've had to work this year, and it's been hard.

CORNISH: Have they?

DUBKE: They have.

CORNISH: Yes.

DUBKE: No, they have.

HAYS: (INAUDIBLE) the government shutdown.

DUBKE: And I think -- I think the thing -- I think the thing -- well, the Democratic shutdown, but we'll come back to that.

The -- I do think that, you know, at the pace that this White House goes --

CORNISH: Yes.

DUBKE: It is -- you feel it throughout Washington. It's not just in Congress, but it's with everybody else that's tangential to Washington, D.C. This has been a blistering pace in 2025. And I think that does take a take a toll on people. So, I'm not surprised at those numbers. It's not a fun place to work right now.

CORNISH: Interesting.

DUBKE: In Congress. In Congress.

CORNISH: Oh, OK.

DUBKE: I'm having a ball.

CORNISH: Yes, right.

And meanwhile, for Democrats, they have been able, somehow to, I guess, pull together in some respects. What kind of message, though, are they going into 2026 with?

HAYS: I think they're going in with, they've outperformed in over 240 or something elections and ballot measures across the country that they -- since the 2024 election. So, I think that Democrats are going in strong. They have a message of affordability. They're united on talking about health care and talking about lowering costs. So, they have --

CORNISH: But still no leader, so to speak?

HAYS: But I don't think the Democrats need a leader. I don't think that they need a national leader, like they have Trump. We've always had grassroots leaders in our own communities, and those are the people who -- who are leading our communities. We had two big governors' races that won. And I just -- Democrats have a lot of wind at their back here going into the midterms, because Republicans can't get it together, because you have someone like Donald Trump screaming at the television about all these wins that are just lies. And then the Republicans in Congress who don't want to have to defend it. Then they don't want to have to be primaried when they speak up to Donald Trump. So, it's easier for them just to retire, which is not saying a lot about the president's policy.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Also a very tough primary season for Democrats coming up. It's going to be a bumpy couple of years for everyone involved.

CORNISH: Everything is going to be a fight. Yes.

HAYS: I'm going to take our wins right now that we have and we'll talk about that later.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: The wins, yes.

CORNISH: All right, let's talk about what is in your group chat. We talked a lot this hour about many things. I want to start with you, Evan, as our guest.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: So, my colleague, Daniella Diaz, was at a restaurant in D.C. last night. I believe it's called Reveler's Hour in Adams Morgan.

CORNISH: Shout-out.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: And she happened to be there with Scott Bessent, who was --

CORNISH: Is the treasury secretary.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Somebody stood up and started giving him a mock toast, you know, yelling at him about I believe it was sanctions and things that the administration is doing, to such an extent that Scott Bessent had to get up and leave. Just another sign of how things are going for this administration at the end of this year. Bessent -- a source close to Bessent eventually told us at the end of this night that he had to leave because the staff of the restaurant wouldn't help him out during the situation, and also he didn't like the food at the restaurant. But it's just another Trump moment in Washington.

HAYS: It (ph) is delicious, by the way.

CORNISH: OK.

Last minute to you two.

DUBKE: Well, I'll go with what's going to be in my group chat with my wife later today when I bring home this beautiful mug --

CORNISH: We have (INAUDIBLE).

DUBKE: Which is going to be how many mugs can we have in this house?

CORNISH: OK.

DUBKE: So, now we're on this one in, one out.

CORNISH: You only need one.

HAYS: Oh.

DUBKE: So, who do I move out?

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Oh.

HAYS: Ooh.

CORNISH: Yes, I'd say any other network.

DUBKE: Oh.

[07:00:01]

CORNISH: Meghan.

HAYS: How soon can you take down your Christmas tree? Do you take it down the day after Christmas? 7

CORNISH: Why are you talking about this now?

HAYS: Because I'm not going to be here next week, and people need to start planning and thinking about this now and --

CORNISH: Oh.

DUBKE: Do you pre-take it down.

HAYS: Well, see, I'm going out of town for Christmas, but I --

DUBKE: It will be dead.

CORNISH: I do like a Mardi Gras thing. Don't you have to wait all the way through the season?

HAYS: So, I will take it down after New Years, the weekend after New Years, because I like having the lights. I think it's very festive.

CORNISH: Oh, my God, you getting ahead on group chat is amazing.

You guys, thank you for waking up with us.

DUBKE: I -- (INAUDIBLE).

HAYS: I know it's a problem.

CORNISH: Please stay with CNN. The headlines are next.