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CNN This Morning
Making Sense of U.S. Capture of Nicolas Maduro; Venezuelan Vice President Delcy Rodriguez Now Interim President. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired January 05, 2026 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And he said about the loyalty of Venezuela's new acting president to the Maduro system.
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Rafael Romo, CNN, Atlanta.
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RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. And thank you for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm Rahel Solomon, live in New York. I'll see you tomorrow.
CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish. We are following breaking news amid President Trump's military operation in Venezuela.
This morning, the search for answers. What did it take to capture ousted President Nicolas Maduro? And was the raid even legal?
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GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER EUROPE OF NATO: It wasn't a legal military operation. It probably violated international law.
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CORNISH: Plus, President Trump says the U.S. is in charge. What does Venezuela's future look like?
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MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: If they don't make the right decisions, the United States will retain multiple levers of leverage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: And just what is the end game? Was it really just about drugs?
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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We need total access. We need access to the oil and to other things.
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CORNISH: So, here's where we begin. That last question. What is President Trump's end goal after the stunning takedown of Nicolas Maduro?
Today, Maduro will make his first court appearance in New York. On his way into detention Saturday night, he flashed a peace sign to the camera. His wife also taken into custody. Now they both face drug, weapons and narco-terrorism conspiracy charges.
This morning, the future of one -- of Venezuela, still uncertain. Delcy Rodriguez, Maduro's No. 2, is now acting president. But who is really in charge?
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TRUMP: Don't ask me who's in charge, because I'll give you an answer, and it will be very controversial.
JULIA BENBROOK, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What does that mean?
TRUMP: It means we're in charge.
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CORNISH: Joining me now in the group chat, Sara Fischer, CNN's senior media analyst and senior media reporter at Axios; Alex Thompson, CNN political analyst and national political correspondent at Axios; and Michelle Price, White House reporter for the Associated Press. You guys, thanks for being here.
One of the reasons why we get to have this conversation today is because after this arrest, you had many officials -- Rubio, Hegseth, Democrats -- everyone out sort of in force on Sunday, talking about why the U.S. did this.
Can I start with you, Michelle? Did what you hear -- was it a unified message? What were the -- if you could run through the various reasons the administration has given for taking this action?
MICHELLE PRICE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: I don't think we could call it a unified message. We've heard a lot of different explanations for this action.
You know, on the face of it, the court documents, there's narco- terrorism charges. There's even some gun charges against Nicolas Maduro. But we've heard the president on Saturday talk about the need for
Western -- dominance in the Western Hemisphere, the Monroe Doctrine. The president is speaking about reviving that doctrine: that this is a -- a neighbor to America, not -- not an adjacent neighbor. But in our -- in our hemisphere that there's a need to establish some kind of dominance here.
Drugs was part of it. But we saw the president pardon the former Honduran president, who was convicted by a U.S. jury on drug charges, the same sort of jury that Maduro is going to face.
So, there's still a lot of questions here about why the administration took these steps.
CORNISH: Right. He'll be in court today.
I want to play something for you guys, because when the president made this announcement about what happened, someone said, who's going to be running the country? And he said, well, you know, these guys behind me.
And so, one of those guys got a lot of questions: Marco Rubio. When he was asked about what it means when Trump says the U.S. is in charge, here's what he had to say.
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RUBIO: Well, it's -- it's not running the -- it's running policy, the policy with regards to this. We want Venezuela to move in a certain direction.
And the goal of the policy is to see changes in Venezuela that are beneficial to the United States, first and foremost, because that's who we work for. But also, we believe, beneficial for the people of Venezuela, who have suffered tremendously.
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CORNISH: I want to play one more thing, which is he was asked the question about, well, what does Venezuela's acting president have to think about this? And here's what he had to say.
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RUBIO: We're going to make an assessment on the basis of what they do, not what they say publicly in the interim; not what, you know, some -- what they've done in the past, in many cases. But what they do moving forward.
And if they don't make the right decisions, the United States will retain multiple levers of leverage --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
RUBIO: -- to ensure that our interests are protected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
RUBIO: And that includes the oil quarantine that's in place, among other things.
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CORNISH: So, we heard a couple of things there. How do you make sense of it?
ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, there's a big difference between running the country and running the policy about the country.
But Trump, you now, had loose talk on Saturday when he said they're going to run the country. And there was a lot of open questions about what he meant by that, especially because he didn't rule out troops on the ground.
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And so, you saw a lot of clean-up by Rubio and to an extent, lesser extent, Pete Hegseth on Sunday to try to clean up exactly what they meant when they said --
CORNISH: "Clean-up" meaning, because they -- he was pressed very hard, or what do you mean?
THOMPSON: Clean up the fact that Donald Trump said the U.S. was going to run Venezuela. And then they were like, well, no, we actually are just running the policy direction toward Venezuela.
CORNISH: With leverage, the leverage being oil.
THOMPSON: Exactly.
CORNISH: Yes. OK. So, this is where I come to my messaging expert. What do you see in this?
SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST: The clean-up has become a pattern for Marco Rubio. We saw this initially with Russia and Ukraine, where he had to come out and correct what the president was saying about the peace plan.
Now we're seeing this again with the troops on the ground.
And the real question, and why the semantics and the messaging matters is because everyone on the Hill wants to know, how do you actually secure U.S. [SIC] oil? How do you actually -- or Venezuelan oil for the U.S. without troops on the ground? This is where it's really important that we clarify.
CORNISH: I mean, rebuild the infrastructure of the oil industry without boots on the ground.
FISCHER: Correct. How do you do that without troops on the ground?
So, with Marco Rubio trying to walk this back, it leaves a lot of unanswered questions for folks on the Hill.
By the way, on the messaging war, Republicans are, again, really split here. This has been the theme all year. Remember, with the Epstein files, with Russia/Ukraine, then with the original tank --
CORNISH: Yes.
FISCHER: -- explosions.
CORNISH: But MAGA land is losing the war -- the fight on foreign policy.
FISCHER: MAGA land is just divided on it. You have the Tucker Carlsons of the world. You have some representatives in Congress like Thomas Massie, who believe in the "America first" doctrine. These are people who are saying, Why are we getting into foreign wars? You promised, President Trump, that we weren't going to do this.
Then you have hawks, some of the more traditional RINO [SIC] Republicans, if you can call them that anymore. The Lindsey Grahams of the world, who are kind of -- Senator John Thune -- who are kind of coming out and supporting the president.
But this is a problem.
CORNISH: Yes.
FISCHER: The fact that the Republicans are not united in the strategy here says to me there's an issue (ph).
CORNISH: And they're going to have to make sense of it. We're going to hear, actually, from a Democrat and a Republican later in the show. So, you guys stay with me. We've got a lot to talk about.
Our breaking news coverage, of course, continues of the U.S. overthrow of the Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro. I'll be speaking with congressmen from both sides of the aisle. We want to know how the parties will be responding this week.
Plus, inside Maduro's removal: how it all played out. And is this all about the drugs or the oil or something else at play?
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REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): If this was really about narco- terrorists and about protecting Americans from cartels and drugs being brought into America, the Trump administration would be attacking the Mexican cartels.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAN CAINE, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: After months of work by our intelligence teammates to find Maduro and understand how he moved, where he lived, where he traveled, what he ate, what he wore, what were his pets, in early December, our force was set, pending a series of aligned events.
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CORNISH: We're learning more about how the daring raid to capture Nicolas Maduro unfolded over the weekend.
Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Dan Caine says the operation to capture Maduro involved more than 150 U.S. military aircraft flying into the heart of Venezuela's capital.
The mission unfolded over a span of about 2.5 hours. The Cuban government says 32 Cuban nationals died in the attack. They were serving in security roles in the Maduro regime.
The U.S. says a few service members were injured. But President Trump tells reporters they are, quote, "in good shape now."
Joining me to talk about all this, Rick de la Torre, former CIA station chief in Caracas, and Kim Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst. Thank you both for being here.
Kim, I'm going to come to you in a moment, but first, I have to ask someone who was formerly a CIA Caracas chief, what does this show about what the CIA has really been doing the last couple of months?
Because we were told they were providing intelligence for the narco- boat strikes. And I always thought, like, well, that's funny. I mean, don't you have the DEA for that or something? So, tell me what this now reveals.
RICK DE LA TORRE, FORMER CIA STATION CHIEF IN CARACAS: Right. So the Central Intelligence Agency has been actively monitoring not just events in Venezuela, but throughout the hemisphere and the world.
So, when we focus on -- on issues, for example, within Venezuela, it's not just the drug boats in the Caribbean Basin. It's also the leadership structure, the military command. Our role is to support --
CORNISH: But it was clear that was a ramp-up once the strike started. Right? And they confirmed that the CIA was operating in the region.
DE LA TORRE: Correct. Once the president -- once the president of the United States openly admitted that -- that the CIA was operating within -- within Venezuela, that certainly meant that -- that there were some additional resources, I suspect, that were then committed to -- to Venezuela.
But the point is that -- that the CIA plays a very critical role in providing that exquisite (ph) information that's required for -- for the Department of War to then carry out their duties. CORNISH: Now, the thing everybody cares about, in the context of this,
when you hear a phrase like "forever wars," is what happens the day after you take a very intense action.
And, Kim, I want to throw up for you, the CIA -- and you know this -- has a long history of attempted regime change in Latin America, some more successful than others, going back to '54: Guatemala, Cuba, Ecuador, Bolivia, multiple times in Venezuela.
Panama, of course, is the one everybody is talking about now. So, we've moved from covert to overt.
KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. And I think what we're all realizing is this is not so much regime change as the changing of the guards at the very top.
It is a -- it's a stick-up. Basically, the Trump administration is saying, as long as you do what we say and what works for us, you can all stay in power, including the minister of interior and the minister of defense, who still have bounties on their heads from the U.S. Justice Department for the same drug-running type charges that Maduro is about to face in U.S. courts today.
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CORNISH: Yes.
DOZIER: But the hard part for somebody like Secretary of State Marco Rubio is this isn't about putting a democratic government in power. It's about using the existing control of Venezuela to enable U.S. companies to develop oil and mineral resources and anything else that Donald Trump can point to and say, See, we got paid.
CORNISH: Now, Rick, you were saying that, in your writing earlier, that removing Maduro would let Venezuelans kind of figure things out without the Cuban sort of infrastructure or spies hanging over them.
But to Kim's point, if you're talking about 20, 30 Venezuelan officials deep in what the government, our government is calling a cartel, then how do you break that, so to speak, without boots on the ground?
DE LA TORRE: Well, I mean, certainly right now, the situation is that we have to rely on the people within Venezuela.
I mean, we were able to remove Maduro. Now, of course -- and I agree, Delcy Rodriguez, Vladimir Padrino, Diosdado Cabello, these are guys wanted in the -- in the U.S. Same, similar charges. They've got blood on their hands, and they need to be brought to justice.
But there is [SIC] some realities right now. The entire opposition party for Venezuela -- Maria Corina Machado and others -- they're not in the country. They're not in Venezuela. So, some of --
CORNISH: Didn't the U.S. help with that, though? I think people are going to have questions about, if this is about having a more amenable people in charge, why you wouldn't help facilitate the regime change you're obviously seeking?
Or is it that it doesn't matter, as long as they acquiesce to the policy concerns?
DE LA TORRE: No, I think it does matter. And I think -- and I think the United States will -- will do that. It's just we've only been talking about a matter of hours since we've removed Maduro.
CORNISH: Yes.
DE LA TORRE: Right? And if you look at the --
CORNISH: But why not Machado?
DE LA TORRE: Why -- why not bring --
CORNISH: Yes.
DE LA TORRE: Maria Corina Machado back into the country?
CORNISH: Yes.
DE LA TORRE: Well, I mean, she's in Norway right now. And if we brought her back, you know, what's the guarantee of support from -- from the military? Like -- like you said, we need to -- we need to look at that military and make sure that we focus on -- on those that -- that were involved in Cartel de los Solas and in the drug running and have ties.
DOZIER: So -- so are you saying that, if you would bring her back, we would be possibly facing a civil war situation? Because so much of the old regime is entrenched in power, and she doesn't have a way to take control of all of the levers of power?
DE LA TORRE: Well, I don't think -- I don't think the power just turns on from one moment to the next. Right? You know, there has to be a period of time where -- where we get to assess what's happening on the ground and those that -- that obviously have some choices to make.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a number of generals within the Venezuelan military that are plotting their way to get to either Moscow or Havana, and abandon their post, because they realize that their time is rather limited.
To the extent that you were to bring her in, it would just create more chaos at this moment. At this moment. Right?
So, I think -- I think over the short term, we have to pinch our noses, and we're going to have to deal with Delcy Rodriguez, sadly, until the situation improves in such a way that we can afford to bring back Marina[SIC] -- Maria Corina Machado and others back into the country.
CORNISH: Kim, last question to you. The U.N., of course, just sort of saying it's alarmed. I heard Nebraska Republican Don Bacon saying that, "My main concern
now is that Russia will use this to justify their illegal and barbaric military actions against Ukraine, or China to justify the invasion of Taiwan. Dictators will try to exploit this to rationalize their selfish objectives."
DOZIER: Or North Korea, et cetera. We have just given a green light to sort of international thuggery. And it's going to be a problem that we deal with down the line.
But at the same time, Maduro didn't have a lot of fans. And we're going to see play out in the U.S. court the charges against him, which may help somewhat defray some of the international criticism.
But still, yes, it's a problem. We can't no -- go -- go sit on our high horse and say, You can't do that. That's against international law. Because right now the U.S. is being accused of breaking it.
CORNISH: Kim Dozier and Rick de la Torre, thank you both for your insights. I really appreciate it and hope to see you again soon.
DE LA TORRE: Thank you.
CORNISH: OK, after the break, our breaking news coverage continues. How are Venezuelans reacting to the removal of their president? We're going to be live from Caracas, next.
Plus, the MAGA spin: how the president's supporters are reacting this morning.
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TRUMP: We're going to run everything. We're going to run it, fix it. We'll have elections at the right time. But the main thing you have to face is a broken country.
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CORNISH: President Trump says the U.S. is, quote, "in charge" of Venezuela. But at this hour, the country's vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, is holding meetings, serving as the interim president.
The only thing certain for the people of Venezuela now is uncertainty. The streets are mostly quiet since the Saturday night raid, but there are reports of long lines for food and supplies as people prepare for whatever is next.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We have no idea what our fate will be now with this new situation. I am completely in the dark. I have no idea what is going to happen to the country, to us. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Joining me now to discuss is journalist Mary Trina Mena in Caracas.
I want to start with the response from the vice president of Venezuela.
We have heard, at first defiance, and now the idea of cooperation. How has the response evolved as of this morning?
MARY TRINA MENA, JOURNALIST: Well, yes. It's been a little over 48 hours since the attack took place on Saturday.
And there's a shift in the speech of the interim president, Delcy Rodriguez, which is a taking a step towards a conversation, a negotiation with the U.S.
She posted on Instagram that "We invite the U.S. government to collaborate with us on an agenda of cooperation, oriented towards shared developments within the framework of international law to strengthen lasting community coexistence."
And this was Delcy Rodriguez just last night after Donald Trump left his home in Florida. And she -- basically, Trump said yesterday that he was running the country.
And after that, we knew about these posts of Delcy Rodriguez. That is a significant change in the policy that loyalists of Nicolas Maduro continue to have here in Venezuela.
CORNISH: You've been reporting that the initial response from Venezuelans was shock. We heard earlier, confusion. And now we're hearing about long lines at stores.
Can you talk about the people you've spoken to, what they're worried about now?
MENA: Yes, we've been driving around Caracas today. Is -- it is Monday, and most commercial establishments that were closed during Saturday and Sunday are opening or starting to open.
But there's been long lines of people trying to stock up on food and medicines, and they're still concerned about that something else could happen. So, the people are trying to be ready to be prepared in case something else would happen in the country.
But right now, we are still waiting, also, for official figures on the number of people who died or were injured during these attacks.
We need to remember that the government that is in charge now has failed to provide data on the number of people who -- who died. They just said that were innocent people killed during the attacks, at least Venezuelans.
But today they confirmed that at least 32 Cubans died. They were serving as a security service for Nicolas Maduro.
CORNISH: OK. Mary Mena with an update there: 32 Cuban intel people who may have died in this attack by the U.S. Mary, thanks so much for speaking with us.
Our breaking news coverage continues on CNN THIS MORNING. Is this an "America first" move? Some Republicans are doubtful. I'm going to ask Republican Congressman Randy Fine about that live.
Plus, was this takedown really just about drugs?
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