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Rep. Randy Fine (R-FL) is Interviewed about Venezuela; Trump Demands Access to Venezuela Oil; Maduro Due in Court Today; Rep. Jonathan Jackson (D-IL) is Interviewed about Venezuela. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 05, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:14]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish.

It's half past the hour. And we are following breaking news after the U.S. takes military action in Venezuela. Here is what's happening right now.

Today, at noon eastern time, ousted Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro is set to appear in federal court in New York City. He and his wife are facing federal drug and narco-terrorism charges after being captured by U.S. forces in a raid Saturday night.

And later this morning, the U.S.' operation in Venezuela is set to be the focus of an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council. A spokesperson for the U.N. secretary general says he's deeply alarmed by the U.S. military action and deeply concerned the rules of international law have not been respected.

And this morning, flights resume after the military operation in Venezuela disrupted air travel in the Caribbean. Airlines canceled hundreds of flights after the FAA closed airspace for safety.

And after the weekend raid to capture Nicolas Maduro, could we soon see other U.S. military action in the hemisphere? Top Trump officials seem to be putting other Latin American countries, like Cuba, Mexico, even Colombia, on notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: They have to declare independence from Cuba. They tried to basically colonize it from a security standpoint. So, yes, look, if I lived in Havana and I was in the government, I'd be concerned, at least a little bit.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You have to do something with Mexico. Mexico has to get their act together because they're pouring through Mexico. And we're going to have to do something. Colombia is very sick too. Run by a sick man who likes making cocaine

and selling it to the United States. And he's not going to be doing it very long.

REPORTER: So, there will be an operation by the U.S. in --

TRUMP: It sounds good to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now, Republican Congressman Randy Fine of Florida.

Thanks so much for being with us.

REP. RANDY FINE (R-FL): Good morning. Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: So, I want to get to Venezuela. But first, can you address some of the things we heard in those clips, the other countries that the administration is citing as places they have interest in or that they see as vulnerable to U.S. intervention?

FINE: Sure. Well, look, President Trump is reasserting a doctrine that goes back to the founding of our country, the Monroe Doctrine, which is the United States will be responsible for what happens in the western hemisphere. And we have seen countries on our side of the world act in ways that are contrary to our interests. In Colombia, the production of cocaine. Cuba has obviously been a problem for more than 50 years. And Mexico is the gateway to allow all these terrible things into our country. The president is using what he's done in Venezuela to say, we're done putting up with nonsense, and people should take notice of that.

[06:35:01]

CORNISH: I want to walk through what he's done, launched a large-scale strike, removed a foreign head of state and pledged to manage the Venezuelan transition, all without congressional authorization. Where do you draw the line on presidential powers taking this kind of action?

FINE: Well, I challenge the premise of what you said. You said he removed a head of state. We've never acknowledged -- and I think this is bipartisan -- that Maduro was the legitimate head of Venezuela. There was an election in 2024, and he lost that election. So, what we did is we removed an indicted drug trafficker, a narco-terrorist, from power.

As it relates to congressional --

CORNISH: It sounds like for you that does -- yes, does that require congressional authorization or not?

FINE: No. I mean the president doesn't need to check with us every time he arrests a drug dealer. If he did, we wouldn't arrest a whole lot of drug dealers. Now, I also think he made the right decision, because the fact of the

matter is, a lot of the people I served with, I wouldn't trust to keep a secret. And so, if you went and told 535 people what you were about to do, someone would have run their mouth.

Now the question is --

CORNISH: Yes. Through someone would argue you would tell intel committees specifically. But I want to ask you, back in December, when there was some polling about whether Americans wanted to see U.S. military action inside Venezuela, 63 percent opposed it. So, that was just a few weeks ago.

And I want to play for you one name you might be familiar with, Marjorie Taylor Greene. She was out, of course, on Sunday talking about this. And here was her take.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): This is the same Washington playbook that we are so sick and tired of, that doesn't serve the American people, that actually -- but actually serves the big corporations, the banks and the oil executives. And so, my pushback here is, on the Trump administration that campaigned on make America great again, that we thought was putting America first, I want to see domestic policy be the priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can you respond to that?

FINE: Sure.

Well, I won't have to respond for long. Marjorie Taylor Greene, so uncommitted to her views, today is her last day in Congress. She quit.

But I would argue that keeping America safe and stopping the mass importation of drugs laced with fentanyl into our country, which is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans, that is keep -- make -- putting America first. Making sure Hezbollah does not have a base of operations in the western hemisphere, which they had in Venezuela, is making America first. I mean all of these things that we've done here are unambiguous good. And you can see that in how the Venezuelans in the diaspora have reacted to this with overjoyed feelings in Florida and around the world. They're happy that Venezuela has a chance to rejoin the community of nations.

CORNISH: What's your response to Republicans like Don Bacon or Tom Massie who have said, you're also inviting other superpowers to decide they can reach into the countries around them, meaning Russia, meaning China. Is this creating problems?

FINE: Well, I'd argue we're the only superpower in the world.

But as it relates to these other countries, what we do doesn't seem to affect their behavior. Russia didn't wait for our permission to invade Ukraine. They're going to do what they're going to do. But what they are going to see is a United States that is strong, has the strongest military in the world and isn't afraid to do what is right.

Again, Maduro was not the democratically-elected leader of Venezuela. I think everyone agrees with that. He lost an election overwhelmingly. Had we gone in and seized a popular leader that was elected by the public, maybe you could make that argument. But this is a guy who lost an election and who the person he beat just won the Nobel Peace Prize, in part because she hasn't been allowed to take control of the country.

CORNISH: Before I let you go, should the U.S. run Venezuela?

FINE: No, I don't think the president intends --

CORNISH: And for how long?

FINE: Sure. I think what the president's talking about is the fact that our forces are surrounding the country. We're going to monitor oil exports, gives us an effective veto on how things are run. What we need Venezuela to do is have an election and then whoever they want will come in and run the place.

What we know from the past election is the people of Venezuela want someone who will have good relationships with America, who will be a supportive and important part of what happens in the western hemisphere and won't run a drug trafficking operation. And so I think that's what we're going to see. I think we'll see it happen soon. And I think this is a huge win for the country and the world at large.

CORNISH: OK. Florida Republican Congressman Randy Fine, thank you for your time.

FINE: Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: OK. So, President Trump is now demanding full access to Venezuela's oil industry. And he issued this warning to the country's acting president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need total access. We need access to the oil and to other things in their country that allow us to rebuild their country.

[06:40:03]

She will face a situation probably worse than Maduro.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, the president claims he's targeting Venezuela because of the drugs they bring into the U.S. But since the raid Saturday night, as we heard, oil has been the centerpiece of his remarks.

So, the group chat is back to talk about this. There's a lot of sort of, I don't know how to say it, national trauma

over going into countries for oil resources.

SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST: Yes.

CORNISH: How is that haunting this conversation?

FISCHER: Well, I think, for one, the American public was not expecting us to be getting into this sort of foreign escalation. So, that will have an impact on the midterms and beyond.

But two, there's a third reason at play here that you didn't mention, which is regime change. So, you have the oil conversation, you have the drugs conversation and the regime change conversation. President Trump and Republicans at first were hesitant to say that this is about regime change at all. Then they sort of flipped their talking points. Now, if you were to ask them about the woman who is sort of stepping into the role of leading the country, they say she's not necessarily popular enough to be leading the country.

CORNISH: Yes. And we heard Randy Fine say, yes, well, actually, maybe there should be some elections there. And then you have people like Katie Miller, who is Stephen Miller's wife, tweeting pictures of Greenland with an American flag superimposed on it --

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

CORNISH: Because it's introducing all of these other places and ideas.

THOMPSON: When you saw Secretary Rubio try to get ahead of the Iraq comparison -- Iraq and Afghanistan comparisons yesterday --

CORNISH: Yes.

THOMPSON: He said, listen, everyone tries to look and view this through the prism of Iraq and Afghanistan. But they've been trying instead to point to what George H.W. Bush did in Panama they basically said. But the thing is that Venezuela is not Panama either. Venezuela is a much bigger, much more diverse, much more complicated country.

Also, to your point with the natural resources a bit, also is just a very different. But I think the administration is trying to basically say that this is not Iraq and Afghanistan. There is more precedent here. And it's in our backyard, unlike in the Middle East.

CORNISH: And also about drugs, but maybe not on drugs. So, you have J.D. Vance, who was tweeting, "first off, fentanyl isn't the only drug in the world," because many people have pointed out that Venezuela is not a source of -- major source of fentanyl. But he says, it's still "coming from Venezuela, or at least there was. Second, cocaine, which is the main drug trafficked out of Venezuela, is a profit center for all Latin American cartels."

So, basically, cocaine is bad too, which this is fact check correct. But the question is, how many different countries would we be willing to go in to break apart that part of their industry? Michelle, I'd love to hear from you because there's one other thing.

Jim Jordan was asked this weekend about the drugs issue as well. And let me see if I -- I think we have that. He gave this answer on the topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We don't need Venezuela's oil. We have plenty of oil in the United States. What we're not going to allow is for the oil industry in Venezuela to be controlled by adversaries of the United States.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): When that country took assets that belonged to American companies, that's wrong. All the -- that's all President Trump is saying is going to change in the future relative to oil. I think that makes sense. They took -- they took property from American companies. That makes sense that there's going to be some kind of compensation, some kind of -- some kind of reckoning for that. I think that's consistent with putting American interests first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Like everyone's trying to make their own sense of this move.

MICHELLE PRICE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Right. I mean we have not heard, up until recently, vast concerns about cocaine in this country, right? There has not been a cocaine crisis. We've heard about a fentanyl crisis, but that is not the drug at hand here.

You know, in the court case that -- from what we've seen so far in the charging documents against Maduro, it does seem like the government is planning to pursue a drug-related argument. But what we're hearing from the administration in all these interviews, which whoever becomes Maduro's attorney, they're, of course, going to be looking at all these comments and trying to use that in his case. It seems to be about regime change. We heard what Susie Wiles, the president's chief of staff, said in that interview with "Vanity Fair," that this was about -- you know, this would continue until Maduro cried uncle. It seems that we've reached that point.

CORNISH: We may hear that this morning.

You guys, stay with me. We've got lots more to talk about in the show.

And, by the way, if you missed any part of the conversation from earlier, we're a podcast. So, scan the QR code now to find it wherever you get your podcasts.

OK, coming up on CNN, there's been an incident at J.D. Vance's house in Ohio. The vice president and his family are OK, but that's part of our breaking news coverage that's coming up next.

Also, as we mentioned, Nicolas Maduro heading to court. The charges he faces.

And then this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): When America tries to do regime change and nation building in this way, the American people pay the price.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Is the Trump administration falling into a familiar trap when it comes to regime change?

[06:45:04]

Plus, how will Democrats respond? Congressman Jonathan Jackson joins me next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CORNISH: We're following a breaking story out of Ohio, where one person is now in custody after an incident at the home of Vice President J.D. Vance. CNN affiliate WLWT reports Vance's home reportedly sustained damage to the windows. It's unclear exactly what's happened. The vice president was not home at the time. CNN has reached out to the White House and Secret Service for more information on that attack on his home in Cincinnati.

Today, Nicolas Maduro will face a judge in New York City. He's been indicted on four counts, narco-terrorism conspiracy, cocaine importation conspiracy and possession, and conspiracy to possess machine guns and destructive devices. His wife, Cilia Flores, is facing similar charges. A video Saturday night showed Maduro smiling, giving a peace sign and thumbs up after landing in the U.S.

CNN's Leigh Waldman joins us now from outside the courthouse.

Leigh, what are we expecting to happen today?

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Audie, in just over five hours we're going to see the Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, and his wife inside of this federal courthouse behind us.

Now, this is just an initial appearance. We don't expect it to last very long. We're expecting that he and his wife will enter not guilty pleas for the charges that you just mentioned that they're facing, these drugs and weapons charges as a part of a 15-year long drug trafficking case that the federal government has been working on.

But an overarching question over this entire case is, who is actually running the country of Venezuela right now? Now, the Trump administration and Trump himself has said that they are in control of Venezuela and said that they are open to working with Maduro's former vice president, now acting president of the country. Delcy Rodriguez.

[06:50:06]

Now, initially we heard from Rodriguez. She appeared defiant, standing firm with Maduro, calling for him and his wife to be returned back to the country. On Sunday, she softened those comments a bit, saying that they would work with the U.S. government.

But there is also the opposition leaders. President Trump was asked about the opposition leaders. And he said that they simply don't have enough support in the country.

But we're hearing from opposition politicians now talking about Maria Machado, saying that she does, in fact, have the support.

Take a listen to what one politician had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SMOLANSKY, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION POLITICIAN: She's got all the legitimacy. When she won a primary with 93 percent of the vote. Then when she endorsed President-elect Edmundo Gonzalez after she was illegally banned for running, President-elect won with 70 percent of the -- of the outcome. And she's a very capable. She's brave. She's courageous

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALDMAN: Now, we are outside of this courthouse. In hours it will be a flurry of activity. This is just that initial appearance and was expected to be a year's long process here, Audie.

CORNISH: OK. CNN's Leigh Waldman, outside the courthouse.

Now, just days after the military action in Venezuela, the Senate will return from their holiday break, as we take a live look now at our nation's capitol. You've got Democratic leaders from both chambers demanding immediate briefings to Congress on the operation. Lawmakers also face another threat, a potential government shutdown when federal funding runs out on January 31st.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, that's one of the problems with this action in Venezuela. How does it actually improve the quality of life of everyday Americans? How is it in America's national security interests? Why doesn't Donald Trump and the administration focus on dealing with the affordability crisis?

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): I'm a member of the Gang of Eight, and I have yet to get a phone call from anybody in the administration. Whether you think Congress leaks or not, the law says you must brief the Congress. So, this is just yet another example of absolute lawlessness on the part of this administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK.

Joining me now to talk about this, Congressman Jonathan Jackson. He's a Democrat from Illinois.

Congressman, thank you so much for being here. We wanted to talk to you because you, of course, are also on the House

Foreign Affairs Committee. And you were telling me during the break that people are flying in. Like, everyone was caught off guard and they're rushing back to Washington.

REP. JONATHAN JACKSON (D-IL): Well, it was before we went on the Christmas recess break, we had the intel meeting with Secretary Rubio, Secretary Hegseth and others, and we were given a briefing, which was very inconsequential. They shared no information. And frankly, we were lied to. We were told that there was no plans in action for regime change or anything.

CORNISH: So that came up?

JACKSON: Yes, it did. It came up very specifically.

And so, as we can see now, this activity has been in motion since August, September. They've been on the ground. They've been planning this for some time.

So, there's been no consultation with the Congress. There's been no authorization of the appropriations funding. There's been no recognition of the War Powers Act to have some sort of declaration before us.

And so, the president is doing this in his attitude, America first means America alone. He is completely iced out, blocked out the United States Congress. And I agree with Congressman Don Bacon and other people. Many people have come here to do a serious job, but the president is simply violating all these constitutional norms.

CORNISH: Can I ask you about what we've heard from Randy Fine earlier and others? Here's J.D. Vance tweeting, "a PSA for everyone saying this was illegal. Maduro has multiple indictments in the U.S. for narco-terrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the U.S. because you live in a palace in Caracas."

Address this. If he's someone who the U.S. was not recognizing as a legitimate leader and has these indictments against him, what makes it illegal?

JACKSON: Well, an indictment is not a conviction, number one. I'm not standing up in support of what Mr. Maduro has done (ph) and recommended, but I am standing up for the process of due process.

So now, as an elected foreign leader, however he got there, and they have some election discrepancy, is Mr. Maduro a prisoner of war at this point? Was he abducted? Was he kidnaped? This is simply more than arrest. You don't send in the United States military.

These were the same military helicopters that came over Chicago this summer. And so, the president is doing things very whimsically. So, what is this doctrine? This is a might is right doctrine. And so, Mr. Hegseth, I would say still has to account to the United States Congress for the double boat tap that's a violation of international law for people that are stranded at sea. CORNISH: Yes.

JACKSON: And are we going to fundamentally dis member and disaggregate the world order that the United States put in place after World War II? And this is what it's beginning to show the strains of, of a new world. And so, if the United States can do this, can Russia do this in this hemisphere with Ukraine?

[06:55:02]

This follows their justification. Can the Chinese do this with Taiwan in their hemisphere? Isn't this what the United States went to war with?

CORNISH: Yes.

JACKSON: And returning the Kuwaitis back to power after Saddam Hussein said that was the legitimate 19th province of the Iraqi country.

CORNISH: OK.

JACKSON: So, it opens up more questions than answers.

CORNISH: You're actually -- that's basically the introduction to the next thing we're going to talk about, all right. So, I'm going to bring in the panel for this, because this is another thing we wanted to address. Is the U.S. engaging in regime change? Is it something that President Trump, who criticized it as part of his past presidential campaigns, is turning to for the U.S. attempts at regime change in Iraq, in particular, resulted in years of U.S. military intervention.

Now, the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, says, look, this time is different.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: The whole, you know, foreign policy apparatus thinks everything is Libya, everything is Iraq, everything is Afghanistan. This is not the Middle East. And our mission here is very different. This is the western hemisphere. Within the western hemisphere, we have a country, potentially a very rich country, that has cozied itself up -- under the control of this regime has cozied up to Iran, has cozied up to Hezbollah, has cozied -- has allowed narco- trafficking gangs to operate with impunity from their own territory, allows boats with drugs to traffic from their territory. And we are addressing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can you address that? The idea that, look, this is the western hemisphere. This is not Iraq. This is not the Middle East.

JACKSON: Well, I would tell you this. From Caracas, Venezuela, to Chicago is 2,500 miles. It's drivable. It's one contiguous landmass. So, what I would tell Secretary Rubio is that the consequences are substantially different. Some people in the country may not know where Afghanistan is and other places, but they will definitely know what the refugees and migrant crisis is going to mean when seven million people have had to leave out of -- out of -- out of Venezuela to go into neighboring countries when Chicago received 30,000 people from Venezuela. You're going to see a migratory flow unless the United States lifts sanctions and lets them be able to sell their oil. Ninety-percent of the Venezuelan economy is from oil exports.

CORNISH: Yes.

JACKSON: And now we're kidnaping piracy act of taking peoples ships so they cannot have any money.

CORNISH: Well, just so we're clear, right now we're actually looking -- this is the route, I guess, from Brooklyn to the courthouse, which is pretty secured. This is where Maduro is going to be due in court in just a few hours.

Alex and Michelle, can I ask you about this? We -- the question that is most pressing is, who's running Venezuela in the interim? We have an answer. The vice president. But what -- when we say we're running it, what are the benchmarks for success? What is the exit? Has the White House discussed anything about that?

PRICE: Well, that's the question here. And that's what's made this so muddled. And beyond, what are the benchmarks, what are the steps that the U.S. will take if it feels that whoever's running Venezuela is not taking the steps that the U.S. wants them to take? What -- are there going to be troops on the ground? What does that look like?

You know, we've had this kind of conflated message of the Maduro government was not a legitimate government. They were not legitimately elected. But his vice president was left in place. His defense minister was left in place. But we're seeing President Trump and Secretary Rubio's comments yesterday that there will be pressure applied if the vice president, who's now running Venezuela, if she -- if she doesn't take steps that the U.S. feels are appropriate, then she might be out, too. So, it's very unclear what (INAUDIBLE) --

CORNISH: (INAUDIBLE) out. We don't know what out --

PRICE: What out means.

CORNISH: Out by what means.

PRICE: And we've heard the president talk about set -- the U.S. somehow having a role in setting up elections there. There's questions about what that would look like, when that would be. Are we monitoring elections?

CORNISH: Yes.

PRICE: There's just a whole (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: So, we're starting Monday with more questions than answers. I'm sure you guys want answers. But being Democrats, you're not in power. What -- what is in your power to ask for or demand this week?

JACKSON: Well, I think that we can first start with the appropriations. Who paid for this? To be able to have our troops set off of the Venezuelan shore cost an extraordinary amount of money. You heard all the military hardware that was used. These wars are not cheap. I've heard estimates of $2 billion to $3 billion.

CORNISH: So, who's going to pay for this?

JACKSON: Absolutely. And then what's the transition of power? Is this something that the people absolutely want? I mean, I can't imagine an oil executive, and I've spoken to many in the last couple of days, that wants to sign a contract to invest in Venezuela. I mean --

CORNISH: They're not excited?

JACKSON: No, not at all.

CORNISH: OK. We'll see about that.

JACKSON: Wait and see. OK.

CORNISH: Yes, exactly. And we're also going to wait and see for this visit by Maduro to the courthouse, where this whole conversation about narco-terrorism, the charges which you'll be able to go online and read for yourself, all of that is going to be public.

So, right now, we're going to be watching this for the next couple of hours. This path from New York to the steps of the courthouse, Nicolas Maduro to face a judge of some kind, right, in this conversation.

[07:00:01]

JACKSON: Well, and who is his lawyer? Is he going to have a public defender? Like, what is the due process? Who is his peers that are going to be on the court? I mean this is a head of state. Theres so many questions.

CORNISH: Well, Congressman, thank you so much for helping us tease some of them out. We hope you'll come back when you have some.

Thank you to the panel.

And please stay with us. The news headlines are next.