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Dems Accuse White House of Having No Plan for Venezuela; Who's in Charge in Venezuela?; Minnesota Governor Walz Drops Bid for Third Term. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired January 06, 2026 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: The CDC estimates at least 11 million people have had the flu this season, and more than 120,000 have been hospitalized for it.

[06:00:09]

They also report at least 5,000 people have died from the flu, including nine children.

All right. That's going to do it for us here this morning. Thanks for being with us here on EARLY START. I'm Rahel Solomon, live in New York. I'll see you tomorrow. In the meantime, CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish. And right now, a U.S. armada sits off the coast of Venezuela. Will the threat of the military keep the new leadership in check?

And congressional leaders have questions. Does the Trump administration have a plan? I'm going to talk to one Republican congressman, live.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): What's really concerning is that he doesn't have a plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: And this morning, why people in Greenland fear they may be next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not sure why they think that they can just start going around and buying other people's land.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: But first, a defiant Nicolas Maduro pleads not guilty, telling a judge he was kidnapped and is still the president of Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: The United States of America is running Venezuela. By definition, that's true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: And that is where we begin. The White House says the U.S. is in charge. But what is the plan to maintain control in Venezuela?

Top congressional leaders were briefed on the Hill following the ousting of Nicolas Maduro, but some say they are left with more questions than answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Their plan for the U.S. running Venezuela is vague, based on wishful thinking and unsatisfying.

HIMES: What's really concerning is that he doesn't have a plan. And this is, of course, what hurt us in Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya. There's no plan for the day after.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: One of the president's senior aides tells CNN they plan to use the threat of the U.S. military to main [SIC] control -- to maintain control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: We are in charge, because we have the United States military stationed outside the country. We set the terms and conditions. We have a complete embargo on all of their oil and their ability to do commerce.

So, for them to do commerce, they need our permission. For them to be able to run an economy, they need our permission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now in the group chat, Sabrina Singh, CNN global affairs commentator; Ashley Davis, former White House official under President George W. Bush; and Lulu Garcia-Navarro, CNN contributor and host of "The New York Times'" "The Interview" podcast.

You guys, welcome. I'm so glad to have you here. Got a defense expert, Bush era expert, and Lulu, who has done a lot of reporting in Venezuela in the past.

So, first, I want to start with you, Sabrina. You had all of these people come out of this briefing, and here is how House Speaker Mike Johnson described what he heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): This is not a regime change. This is a demand for change of behavior by a regime. We have a way of persuasion, because their oil exports, as you know, have been seized. And I think that will -- that will bring the country to -- to a new governance in very short order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: What do these words mean?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: You know, I think the Republicans, in particular, are doing -- they have to jump through a lot of verbal hoops right now, because I think Republicans are trying to justify what the president is doing and these actions, which really fly in the face of what the MAGA base really elected Donald Trump on, which was the idea that we're not going to get into endless wars and start this idea of nation building all around the world.

And so, I think when you see Mike Johnson -- I've seen other Republicans join CNN, as well. I think it's a lot of, you know, like trying to --

CORNISH: But if you basically have your naval fleet in position to use the oil, and you have leverage with the government, are you effectively in charge?

SINGH: Well, that -- I think that really remains to be seen, because what does running the government of Venezuela look like?

Because if we are running the government, that means we are running their entire process. I mean, think of the government that we run today. I mean, we're running their courts. Are we overseeing their election process?

Donald Trump poured cold water on the idea that there's going to be an election in 30 days. That's part of the Venezuelan constitution.

So, are we really running the government? I mean, that's also going to require law enforcement --

CORNISH: Right.

SINGH: -- which would mean boots on the ground. So --

CORNISH: That we're going to ask Ryan Zinke about later today, former Navy SEAL.

SINGH: Yes, and I think that's a great question.

CORNISH: Someone who wore the boots.

SINGH: Of what that looks like. But so, running the country, I think, you can say those words, but in practice, what does that look like? And I think lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have questions about that.

CORNISH: OK, so here's what I want to ask you guys. I feel like whenever there's military action, Lindsey Graham gets his wings. And here is what he had to say in recent hours about what he thinks should happen next.

[06:05:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): No military in the world could have done it. You just wait for Cuba. Cuba is a communist dictatorship that's killed priests and nuns. They preyed on their own people. Their days are numbered.

So, I pray and hope that 2026 will be the year that we make Iran great again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The list is getting longer. I just have to play this reaction from Rand Paul, who is occasionally good for a laugh. A Kentucky senator shout-out. Here's what he had to say on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): Apparently, this attack has been under planning for 3 or 4 months, and so there's plenty of time to ask Congress's permission. I think it's disdainful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see Graham's fingerprints in all this?

PAUL: Yes, there needs to be a law, and he needs to be banned from going to the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Ban Lindsey Graham from the plane. But I was -- I was surprised to see him on the plane right there. Right? Like, oh, what are we talking about?

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I think he's on the plane a lot.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The hawks are back in the GOP. They're here. They're -- they never left. I want to -- I want to be clear.

CORNISH: They were lying in wait.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: They were lying in wait. I mean, I think this is the DNA of the of -- of the Republican Party. You know, for good and for ill.

It has always been something that people have seen them as very strong on foreign policy.

The problem that we have at the moment, though, is not only just the lack of a plan, but also, you know, here we have the Trump administration, basically, saying that they run Venezuela.

And they're saying that they run Venezuela, because they can do it through this threat of the armada.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So, what is the plan here: that we're just going to leave the U.S. Navy and Marines off the coast of Venezuela interminably as sort of a Damocles sword over their head?

And meanwhile, inside Venezuela, what we're seeing is an enormous amount of repression. We're seeing a consolidation of power with the new government. That always happens. Right? Because there are always internal divisions.

CORNISH: In a power vacuum, yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: There's a power vacuum. There are internal divisions. There are many different players within the Venezuelan elites.

And so, the Venezuelan people are the ones that are actually facing, not regime change, not any actual change, but increased repression.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And who is delving that out, dealing that out is the U.S. government. What does America stand for at this point? Are we now --

CORNISH: Yes. Let me bring in Ashley, because these are almost beat for beat the same questions that were asked about the Middle East and Iraq specifically. What do you think of those comparisons?

DAVIS: Well, first of all, I think we're like two or three days into this. So, I think everyone needs to -- I want to start out, first of all and foremost, what Lindsey Graham did say, which was important, is our military is the best military in the world. And I think we should thank our military for what they accomplished for the Venezuelan people.

I know we can sit here and debate what the next plan is and whatever. No one can sit here and argue that it's better off that Maduro was in -- was in power or still in power.

CORNISH: The American people are unsure. I just want to flag these two polls for you. One is, do you support the U.S. taking control of Venezuela and choosing a new government? The number I always pay attention to is independents: just 18 percent.

And the other thing is U.S. taking control of Venezuela and choosing a new government. People are pretty split on this, but just 24 percent support it. Everyone else is like no or not sure.

So, the question is not being asked of the American people. Do you think our military is great? I think the question being asked is why are they doing this particular mission?

DAVIS: I think this is exactly what was said earlier about the -- the base of the Republican Party, but also in general, there are people in this country that are worried about their day-to-day lives.

And so, for them, I don't think that they care one way or the other what's happening in Venezuela, because they're worried about how they're going to pay for their groceries. So --

SINGH: That's actually a good point that you bring up, though, because the American public does not want to see, I think, the United States getting involved in these nation-building exercises like Venezuela, potentially Cuba, Greenland, who knows? And I think at the end of the day, this was the problem with Ukraine.

(CROSSTALK)

CORNISH: So, that's what we mean. Even though it's two to three days in the ghost of all the interventions past, onto this.

DAVIS: What I'm having a little bit of PTSD about is -- and listen, I don't think that the American people need to know the day-to-day, what the next plan is. Obviously, the Venezuelan people do.

But I'm hoping -- because if not, it's going to be a big problem that the -- Secretary Rubio is coming up with some sort of plan to make Venezuela better place.

CORNISH: OK. I want to stop it there, because we actually are bringing in an expert who knows a lot about what's going on in Venezuela right now. That will give us a little more context. Plus, some lawmakers today.

So, hold that thought. I will come back to you, Lulu.

Ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, we're going to continue this coverage of the Venezuelan operation and look at what we should be watching out for next. Red flags. Green flags.

I'm going to be talking with a reporter who also sat down with President Trump to have the president explain what he meant by the "Donroe [SIC] Doctrine."

[06:10:06]

And in the meantime, Minnesota's governor, he's not running again. Did he get caught up in a political battle he couldn't win?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): The buck does stop with me. We'll win the fight against the fraudsters. But the political gamesmanship we're seeing from Republicans is only making that fight harder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: There's going to be some posturing that occurs when a nation has been so thoroughly defeated in this way.

They have sent message after message, making clear that they will meet the terms, demands, conditions, and requirements of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Delcy Rodriguez is now officially the acting president in Venezuela. Her first order of business was to order the arrest of anyone who supports the U.S. operation in the country.

[06:15:04]

But at the same time, the Trump administration says Rodriguez has been talking with top U.S. officials. She says she's offering a, quote, "agenda of cooperation" with the U.S.

President Trump tells NBC News that has been the case, at least so far. But when asked who was ultimately in charge of the country, Trump had just one word: "me."

So, I'm bringing in Eric Farnsworth, senior associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He joins Lulu here.

Lulu, I know you've been in touch with people on the ground. When we say repression or when we say power vacuum, what does that actually look like?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, what it looks like is that the Venezuelan people aren't really doing anything right now.

We haven't seen any reaction on the street. We haven't seen protests. In fact, quite the opposite. What we've seen is a lot of panic buying initially, and now a lot of people sort of business as usual, staying home. Because nothing has essentially changed.

What has happened is that they've taken the leader of the country. He's now in the United States, but the entire apparatus is still there.

CORNISH: I want to talk about to talk about that. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Democrat from Florida, had this to say on Monday. Eric, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL): Maduro committed crimes against humanity. He was a narco-criminal that was under U.S. indictment.

But the problem is, is that Deodatus Diosdado [SIC], who is also helping to lead this -- this new regime, new phase of the regime, is also an indicted criminal with -- with the $25,000 bounty on his head.

So, I mean, we seem to have swapped one head of the snake for another.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: Can you talk about who's left of the snake that she's referring to? I mean, I don't want to give everyone a litany of names but help us understand the kinds of figures who are in charge right now.

ERIC FARNSWORTH, SENIOR ASSOCIATE, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Yes, absolutely. And these are not nice people. They've been there for a long time, and they've been oppressing the Venezuelan people for years.

It's not just Nicolas Maduro. He might have been the head of what I've called a junta. And what it is, is really a gathering of individuals, each with their own fiefdoms, each with their own corruption networks and their own bases of power. Delcy Rodriguez is one and her brother, as well.

CORNISH: Right. She, at one point, was the minister of oil industry.

FARNSWORTH: Correct. Energy, right.

CORNISH: But also, I believe, intelligence.

FARNSWORTH: Right. That's right. And she has been accused of crimes against humanity. She's sanctioned by the Treasury Department.

But Diosdado Cabello is -- has been referred to as the regime enforcer. He's still there. He has a $25 million bounty on his head.

Padrino Lopez is the head of the military. He's still there. He certainly also has a bounty on his head.

So, you have these individuals who are still there. And the question is, without Maduro, is anybody sort of coordinating this group, or are they going to break down and start going after each other? I think that's an open question, something we're going to see in the days ahead.

CORNISH: Stephen Miller was asked about whether or not the U.S. was kind of supporting a potential opposition leader. Obviously, the name Machado has come up, because she won the Nobel Peace Prize. Let me play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: It would be absurd and preposterous for us to suddenly fly her into the country and to put her in charge, and the military would follow her, and the security forces would follow her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FARNSWORTH: Well, there is a reality on the ground. And as Lulu was talking about, the security of the street is critical.

I remember the -- after the Panama invasion operation, Just Cause, there was chaos. There was looting after Iraq, of course. That's been well discussed. And I think the administration wants to make sure that that does not

repeat itself. So, there is a reality that you have to work with the security forces that have control.

But that is deeply disconcerting to the Venezuelan people, because their concern is, well, we don't want to just get rid of Maduro to have the same group of folks here. What does -- where does that leave us?

CORNISH: Yes.

FARNSWORTH: And where does our future hold?

CORNISH: What are you hearing?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. I mean, I think one of the questions about all these people is what happens to them.

I mean, right now they're cooperating with the United States. And that seems to be the case. There's a lot of discussion about who actually did do the cooperation that led to Maduro's ouster.

You know, there's a lot of like, side-eye in that whole group as to who actually shivved him and handed him over to America. And I think that that is going to play out over the next days and weeks.

But beyond that, what are the promises that the U.S. administration is giving to these people? Because, as you rightly mentioned, they are also sort of under U.S. indictment. Are they --

CORNISH: Yes. They have their own interests, we've just heard, right?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And they don't want to --

CORNISH: If you're running your own mini cartel, you've got to do some self-dealing.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: They don't want to give up power.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And that's been clear. They are consolidating power. And so, what exactly does the United States want to see from this group, other than sort of opening up the oil industry to the United States? I mean, what is the end game?

CORNISH: Let's ask Eric. For you, red flags, it's working. Green flags that it's --

FARNSWORTH: Yes. Well, there are certain things the administration has made clear. They want a reduction of drug trafficking.

[06:20:04]

CORNISH: OK. FARNSWORTH: They want Cuba, China, Russian interests out of the country, Iranian interests. And they want Delcy Rodriguez and the group that is there to start working on that.

They do want the oil industry to become re-energized. That's a long- term project.

CORNISH: Yes.

FARNSWORTH: But they want that to be --

CORNISH: But short term, should we look for anything? I mean, should they force the Venezuelan government to release political prisoners, for example?

FARNSWORTH: In my view, yes, absolutely. If we --

CORNISH: Any signs they're doing that?

FARNSWORTH: As of now, I haven't seen those.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, they're arresting people. Quite the opposite. In fact, they're arresting people. They're not actually letting people go. They're arresting people.

And so, this is the big question here. What does the United States stand for? Do we stand for, actually, the democratic process? When we do something like this, is there something beyond the venal --

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- self-interest of -- of seizing assets? Or are we really just changing one horrible administration for another and sacrificing the Venezuelan people and all of those millions of refugees who left the country?

FARNSWORTH: One of the best things that could be done symbolically right now is to close Helicoide, which is a massive torture center in the heart of Caracas. It was built as a hotel. The Maduro regime turned it into a torture center. The head of SEBIN, which is their secret police.

It's where they hold the -- many of the political prisoners. That should be closed. It should be closed now. And it's something that could be done. Release the prisoners, yes.

But then, as a symbolic issue, this has to be a fresh start for the Venezuelan people. Otherwise, they're going to start to lose hope.

And once they lose hope, all bets are off, because that is why the migration flows have stopped. People thought there was hope for change. You know, if they say that nothing's going to change, we could start seeing migration flows again.

And that would go against not just U.S. Interests, but the interests of the neighbors: Colombia, Brazil, Trinidad, Peru, Ecuador, et cetera.

CORNISH: Eric, you've raised a lot of things that we can watch out for the next couple of days.

FARNSWORTH: Yes.

CORNISH: So, I really appreciate you coming in.

Lulu, of course, stick around.

After the break on CNN THIS MORNING, Minnesota's governor, Tim Walz, is not going to seek reelection. So, does that open the door for Senator Amy Klobuchar?

Plus, President Trump's threats to Greenland has Denmark in crisis mode. Some questioning if NATO can survive this.

And good morning, Kansas City. Giving you a shot of that skyline. Thanks for waking up with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:2

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALZ: Every minute that I spend defending my own political interests would be a minute I can't spend defending the people of Minnesota against the criminals who prey on our generosity and the cynics who want to prey on our differences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Minnesota Governor Tim Walz ending his reelection bid, and he blames President Trump and his base on the way out.

Walz is under scrutiny for his handling of a multibillion-dollar welfare fraud scandal targeting the Somali community. It basically stems from a viral video from a conservative YouTuber, which actually featured some of these claims. But it was enough for the Trump administration to get involved.

So, this morning, we're learning around 2,000 federal agents are being deployed to Minneapolis as part of the White House's immigration crackdown.

So, in the meantime, politically, who's going to step in as Walz steps out at this critical time for the state? All eyes are currently on Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar. A person close to her tells CNN she is, quote, "seriously considering a bid."

And joining me now to discuss Blois Olson, host of "Beers with Blois" podcast, very sourced up and actually worked on us -- with a CNN investigation on this topic last year.

Thanks for being with us. BLOIS OLSON, HOST, "BEERS WITH BLOIS": Great to be here.

CORNISH: I know this issue of the services scandal was massive. Many arrests, big investigation, and then the national, especially MAGA media focused on it. But was Walz vulnerable in other ways, why he could not withstand the scrutiny?

OLSON: You know, the fraud issue really was the looming cloud over his candidacy, but it had been looming for several years, including when he was running for vice president. It was several stories about the issues then.

And there was just a sense he didn't take it seriously enough or address it directly enough.

But the bigger issue was we had an $18 billion surplus in Minnesota. He raised taxes by $10 billion. And now we have a $9 billion shortfall on the -- on the tails.

And so, I think there was just a larger question of did he have a good enough, strong enough vision for a third term?

And fatigue really set in. People were -- were tired. They may like him, but they thought maybe it was time for somebody new, especially independent voters.

CORNISH: Let's talk about somebody new. I've got a long list of possible candidates here on the Republican [SIC] side, Amy Klobuchar, of course, Keith Ellison, who's the attorney general on the -- sorry, on the Democratic side.

On the Republican side, I have Mike Lindell, Kristen Robbins.

First, Amy Klobuchar, in or out?

OLSON: You know, I think she's 80 percent in right now. If we look back to this fall, when Governor Walz was deciding whether or not to seek a third term, there was real questions of whether or not his heart was in it or whether or not he'd do it.

At that time, it's very clear that Senator -- Senator Amy Klobuchar and her team really did the work to figure out whether or not she would jump in. And all signs were that she was ready to jump in, in the fall, if Walz didn't run.

He ultimately decided to run. And when they bowed out this weekend, he and Klobuchar met on Sunday. So, I have no doubt that he gave her a heads up.

She is the strongest chance for Democrats. And I write about that this morning at the DailyAgenda.com, where she has been the top Democratic vote getter, especially in Republican areas, since she started her Senate run in 2006.

CORNISH: Before I let you go, Republicans have hammered on this scandal for so many months. Do they now have a chance to take this seat?

OLSON: Minnesota's had split votes for Senate and governor before. In 2006, when Amy Klobuchar won, Tim Pawlenty won his second term.

And so, there are several Republicans. It's a crowded field. I would add Lisa Demuth and Chris Madel to your -- to your list. But there's a chance. But Klobuchar will change the dynamic of the race significantly.