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Independent Voters Sour on Trump; Mariana Atencio is Interviewed about Machado; Abolish ICE Movement Gains Traction; Vance Claims Absolute Immunity. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 16, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

JULIE ROVNER, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "KFF NEWS": Most of those people were getting -- there's still some subsidies, but the additional subsidies that were added under the Biden administration have now expired and a lot of those people are getting real sticker shock. They're seeing doubling, tripling, in some cases quadrupling of what they're expected to pay in premiums. And, obviously, we're already seeing some numbers that many people are dropping insurance because they just cannot afford that.

AUDIE CORNISH: So, let's talk about this plan the president says no one's thought of before, which is to give people money to pay for their own health insurance, rather than it going to insurance companies,, et cetera, as subsidies. Can you talk about what this would look like? And actually, have we seen it before?

ROVNER: Well, a lot of people have thought of this before. We started with something called medical savings accounts in the 1990s. They're basically supposed to be an adjunct to health insurance. They're supposed to let you perhaps negotiate and pay for routine things and things that are what we call shoppable. You know, that you go to a doctor, you have pain in your arm, and he says you need to go get an MRI. Things that are not emergencies. They're not supposed to be a replacement for health insurance. Giving people a couple of thousand dollars and telling them to go out and pay for all of their health care is not really realistic unless you're completely healthy. If you actually get sick and need any kind of, not even sophisticated care, just basic emergency care, that's going to wipe out the couple of thousand dollars that Republicans are talking about giving people.

CORNISH: It also seems like a shift, right? For a time the idea Democrats didn't want to be accused of doing single payer or socialism and so they thought it was a market solution.

ROVNER: That's right. This was originally what -- the Affordable Care Act was originally a Republican plan. It was first put into effect by Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts. The Democrats hoped that it would be bipartisan by doing, you know, buying in, both the drug industry and the insurance industry. And now suddenly the Republicans are saying, no, we don't want to give money to the insurance industry anymore. We want everybody to shop for themselves. CORNISH: Well, it'll be interesting to see, as this plan rolls out,

sort of who picks it up. Julie Rovner, I hope we can have you back when that happens.

ROVNER: I'm always here for you.

CORNISH: Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, protests rage for another night in Minneapolis as the deputy director of ICE decides to step aside. We're going to tell you what's next for her.

Plus, brand new CNN poll out this morning. It finds a majority of Americans believe the first year of Trump's second stint in office has been a failure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:37:15]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are seeing that lack of trust and that lack of integrity coming directly from our federal government right now, not just in how they're conducting their operations in the street, but how they're completely lying to our community about those operations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The Minneapolis city council president says people are tired of being harassed by ICE agents. Overnight, tensions continued after President Trump threatened to use the Insurrection Act to stop protests. Two shootings in one week involving immigration officers has essentially sparked a debate over the demonstrations in the city.

Good morning, everybody, I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It is 6:37 here on the East Coast, and here's what's happening right now.

The Utah man accused of killing Charlie Kirk is back in court today. Tyler Robinsons's legal team is asking the judge to disqualify prosecutors, claiming a potential conflict of interest in the capital murder case. Court documents say the daughter of one of the attorneys was at the Utah Valley University event where Kirk was shot. The preliminary hearing is scheduled for May. Robinson has entered a -- has not entered a plea.

And the deputy director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement is stepping down to run for congress. Madison Sheahan announced she is leaving to challenge longtime Democratic Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur in Ohio. Her departure comes amid heightened scrutiny of ICE's recent violent tactics.

And federal prosecutors have charged 26 people, including more than a dozen former NCAA basketball players, in an alleged betting and point shaving scheme that rigged college and Chinese professional games. Officials say gamblers recruited players with bribes to manipulate games as recently as last season. Prosecutors allege four of the players charged actually played for their current teams in the last few days.

And now I want to talk about the new CNN polling out this morning. It finds that President Trump underwater with voters on a range of issues one year into his second term. Among independent voters, 66 percent believe the second term is a failure. When asked which issue is the most important, the economy was overwhelmingly picked as number one, meaning it could be top of mind for voters in the midterms this year. Sixty-two percent of independents say that Trump's policies have worsened economic conditions in the country. Just 22 percent say they've made things better.

And when it comes to the president taking action to lower prices on everyday goods, 69 percent of independents believe he has not gone far enough, as well as about half of his own party. The polling could be a troubling sign with the midterms just ten months away. Historically, the party in power doesn't do well.

[06:40:01]

The president does seem to be aware of that fact. In a recent interview with Reuters, he said, quote, "it's some deep psychological thing, but when you win the presidency, you don't win the midterms." He went on to say he had accomplished so much that, quote, "when you think of it, we shouldn't even have an election." The White House later said he was joking.

It's something he's mentioned more than once.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had the worst president, did the worst job. They had the worst policy. We have to even run against these people. Now, I wont say cancel the election, they should cancel the election, because the fake news will say, he wants the elections canceled. He's a dictator. They always call me a dictator. Who -- nobody's worse than Obama and the people that surrounded Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, group chat is back.

When the team told me about this piece of tape, I was like, how many months ago was that? It was ten days ago.

NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: Yes.

CORNISH: So, what is time?

But I wanted to ask you about some of the numbers that we're hearing.

KING: Yes. CORNISH: Because I think -- a lot of people think independents really helped Trump in certain districts, parts of the country, in the last election.

KING: Yes, they did. Yes, they did.

CORNISH: So, that's why I keep talking about independents.

KING: And they're angry. They're angry. They don't think he's doing a good job. I mean --

CORNISH: But they're consistent. They care about the economy.

KING: They care about the economy. Yes, the affordability thing is not going away. And the president doesn't seem to know how to handle this problem.

CORNISH: I'm looking at this second term approval rating. And also what I'm noticing, Rob, is the shift, right? Like, the -- it's just -- that number's going in the direction that you don't want.

ROB BLUEY, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Yes, Audie, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I mean, Republicans are in trouble as we head to November. This is an issue, whether it be the cost of living or health care or any number of issues that the American people have on the top of their mind right now, it's not going in the direction that I think Republicans want.

The good news is, they still have several months to turn things around, but it's going to be incumbent on Congress to make sure that they're following through on some of the things that the president has talked about. You just had that segment about health care. It's going to now take Republicans in Congress to put together a bill and get that across the finish line to show the American people that they are addressing some of the problems that were created with Obamacare. So, let's see them get the job done.

CORNISH: Are you waiting for Congress to do things?

LULU GARCIA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Um --

CORNISH: Is this a collective holding of breath, waiting for Congress to take action on something?

NAVARRO: I just was like, I mean, I think the numbers are pretty clear. We've been seeing that, you know, throughout the last year, that he's really shed a lot of his coalition that, you know, that brought him into power.

CORNISH: Yes.

NAVARRO: And I think, you know, it's a chaotic first year. What he calls success and action, other people see as chaos and not addressing their concerns.

CORNISH: Or taking your eye off the ball. When you look at some of these, we're talking about the price of goods. And you -- you're just seeing independents say, what? Where is it, you know? Like, I think there's --

NAVARRO: I'm really interested, though, in his -- the numbers for his own party because --

CORNISH: Oh, let's look harder. So, we're seeing under this one at least, Trump's --

NAVARRO: Forty-eight percent think that he has not done enough on lowering the cost of living. That is in his own party. Those are unprecedented numbers for a president that has really had his own party in lockstep with him.

You were joking, saying that, oh, we always see these numbers, and they always say the same things.

CORNISH: Yes.

NAVARRO: Democrats disapprove, 98 percent. Republicans approve, 98 percent. And, in fact, I said to you, what's interesting about some of these numbers is that we're seeing the Republican votes move on this. And that sends a signal. Not that they're going to vote against the president, but that they might not turn out for the president.

CORNISH: All right, one more thing, because I don't want it to be a footnote, him joking about not having elections. I don't want to take the bait and be told I'm the fake news media raising this question.

KING: Nor do I.

CORNISH: So, instead, I'm going to play for you Senator Schumer, who was asked about Trump's election jokes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We already have teams of both senators and lawyers looking at every way that Trump could try to screw things up. And we're fighting against it. We already have a team to make sure that they count the votes fairly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: I mean, Greenland wouldn't be having people bring in European troops, right --

KING: Right. Right.

CORNISH: If they didn't think that they needed to take Trump seriously.

KING: Exactly.

CORNISH: So, how do you think about this conversation?

KING: I think he should stop joking. I think the president should stop joking. I mean, look, we hear this excuse a lot, he was only joking, he was only joking. Look at the polling.

CORNISH: But it also spins out into a conversation on the left which says that having people be upset, having people riot in the streets gives you an excuse to send in troops, or maybe gives you an excuse to cancel midterms. That's something you hear in podcast land.

BLUEY: And we know that the president is a master of trying to control the news cycle. And so, if you were talking about things like national security and Iran and Minneapolis and ICE, we're not talking about the cost of living. And maybe he thinks that the American people will focus on some of those issues instead.

Ultimately, I think that the president is trolling you, and he's --

[06:45:04]

CORNISH: Yes.

BLUEY: He's a master at that. I don't think he's going to stop --

CORNISH: I'll play this back, though, if something goes wrong, OK, timestamp this, because I'm -- it's just the way we are in the news now. Like, I didn't think the Peace Prize that he was going to be given it by Machado. And like, here I am with the photo the next day.

NAVARRO: Oh, I was sure that that was going to happen.

CORNISH: OK, so speaking of. Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Machado has, as I said, bestowed upon President Trump something he has coveted, that Nobel Peace Prize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA CORINA MACHADO, 2025 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER: The medal of the Nobel Peace Prize as a recognition for his unique commitment with our freedom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Though the Nobel committee basically says, that's not a thing. Posting on X, they say, "a medal can change owners, but the title of a Nobel Peace Prize laureate cannot."

Still unclear what level of support Machado actually has from the president after handing over the medal. Ousted Venezuelan leader Nicolas Moduro's vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, has already assumed the role of acting president.

And joining me now to discuss this meeting yesterday, Mariana Atencio, journalist, author and speaker.

Mariana, thanks so much for coming back.

MARIANA ATENCIO, JOURNALIST, AUTHOR AND SPEAKER: Thank you, Audie, for continuing to cover this important story. CORNISH: So, you and I have talked a lot about the potential role of

Machado. People come on the panel and say, no, because there's no way to sort of install her, so to speak. So, what were the hopes for people like you about this meeting?

ATENCIO: There was a lot hinging on this meeting. Remember that President Trump and Maria Corina hadn't even met face to face before this meeting. And I think the hopes were met because, frankly, she got alignment with President Trump. She got protection.

Audie, you have to think about the fact that she will have to go back to Venezuela, I think sooner rather than later. So, who is going to ensure her protection under a regime that still continues to operate with the same machinery that it did with Nicolas Maduro? I think President Trump is way more likely to ensure her safety now than he was 24 hours ago.

And also think about this. The regime also sent their envoy to Washington this week. So, there's a lot of people vying for President Trump's attention right now. And I think she was very strategic in giving him a medal that he had coveted for a long time, as your intro to this segment said.

CORNISH: Yes.

ATENCIO: And I will end this point with this. I genuinely believe, as a Venezuelan American, that the vast majority of Venezuelans are truly grateful to President Trump for having stepped in and done what many people didn't do with a regime that had turned our country into a cartel for 25 years.

CORNISH: So, because we speak a lot, I heard this next quote and immediately thought of you. It was Senator Rand Paul on the Joe Rogan podcast this week, and he was being asked about what he sees happening in Venezuela and what's being done to support Machado or anyone else, right, in terms of the leader right now.

Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): Maduro's gone, but his second in charge, who was elected with him and holds all of his beliefs, is there. And if she graciously or fearfully decides to accept what they're telling her, that we're going to confiscate all the oil and we're going to sell it on the international market, and we're going to give her a little bit back if she behaves, and let's say that austerity doesn't lead to a real vibrant economy, I think six months from now the people will be just as upset as they were, and they'll still have the same government as --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: What's your response to that?

ATENCIO: That is still a very real possibility. I'm not going to say the opposite. But you have to think about where we are now versus where we were on January 2nd with a regime that seemed to us to just be impenetrable, Audie. Now we know that they are afraid. Now we know that the eyes of Washington and the world are on what they are doing. We have also ensured the release of some, not all, of the political prisoners. So, I think that we are much closer to the three phases that Secretary Rubio explained were coming next in Venezuela, especially the return of political exiles and free and fair elections in the medium to long term than we were on January 2nd.

CORNISH: Yes.

OK, Mariana Atencio, hope to have you back as this story continues. Appreciate your time.

ATENCIO: Thank you, Audie.

CORNISH: And if you missed any of that conversation or the one we had earlier about Iran, we're a podcast. So, please take a moment, scan the QR code. Yes, people actually do this. This is where you can find CNN THIS MORNING. But you can also find it anywhere you get your podcasts.

Ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, House Democrats fighting back.

[06:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SHRI THANEDOR (D-MI): ICE is beyond reform. ICE is totally out of control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: As tensions escalate in Minnesota, Democratic lawmakers make their push to abolish ICE. Is that the answer?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CORNISH: OK, all week tensions have been high in Minneapolis. Anti-ICE protesters clashing with agents outside a federal building. Here's a scene just Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're starting to throw the -- those -- hold on, let me just come back here. As you can see, basically, now they're just deploying tear gas because what's been happening is that they've -- we have more tear gas --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, a CNN crew was there. Law enforcement using tear gas and percussion grenades to disperse the crowds in response to this growing outrage.

[06:55:00] President Trump is actually threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act. Some Democrats on Capitol Hill want to take action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SHRI THANEDOR (D-MI): ICE is totally out of control. And this week I intend to introduce a bill to abolish ICE. We need to make ICE go away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: And a movement to abolish ICE is gaining traction once again on the left. Some Democrats worry that that's a little too reminiscent of the defund the police messaging that faced major -- major pushback from Republicans and from voters.

So, the group chat is back.

I was thinking about this because the deputy director of ICE stepping down to run for Congress. Her name is Madison Sheahan, and she's going to challenge a longtime Democratic congresswoman, Marcy Kaptur, in Ohio. I mean, it's Ohio. This will be a test of this conversation about how do Republicans talk about ICE, and how do Democrats talk about ICE?

KING: Yes, and it will be a test for her. I mean I wonder -- I wonder why she's stepping down. I mean, I saw this news and I was like, is she getting out while the getting's good? And so -- I mean, really and truly, this does not seem -- the job she's in does not seem an enviable one at this time.

CORNISH: Senator Gallego in "The New York Times" saying, look, "the last thing we need to do," we meaning Democrats, "is to make the same mistake when it comes to the defund the police rhetoric. That ended up not actually helping communicate what people wanted. People want a slimmed-down ICE that is truly focused on security."

Lulu, this is your newspaper. Can I ask about Gallego's approach?

NAVARRO: Yes, I've interviewed Gallego and, you know, obviously he's in a swing state, Arizona. He's had a pretty measured approach as senator to this issue. And the messaging, I think, reflects that, which is, abolish ICE is not a winning slogan. It was used as a cudgel in the same way that, you know, defend the police was.

CORNISH: Right. Even when we have these poll numbers, does ICE make cities more safe? Fifty-one percent say less safe.

NAVARRO: Well, this is what I'm saying. But let me, let me, let me -- well, let me say this.

CORNISH: Yes.

NAVARRO: It is not a winning strategy now. If the Democrats take over power, and if you have a Democratic president, and if they decide to, you know, reconstitute ICE, I think that's fine. But to run on this, I don't think is the right tactic.

CORNISH: Yes.

NAVARRO: You want to do something later on because ICE has become this bloated agency, of which it frankly has under this president, very chaotic agency, being used for things that it hasn't traditionally been used for, that's one thing. But I don't know that this is a winning argument for someone running in a local race.

CORNISH: Right.

NAVARRO: To sort of have and certainly not for the national Democratic Party.

CORNISH: So, we do know, though, that the administration admits the vibes are not good. Here's Tom Homan, border czar, being asked about this on Fox Thursday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: I think they're being egged on by the press. I think there's a lot of false media out there. And I think we need to be better at messaging what we're doing.

Look, bottom line is, 70 percent of everybody arrested is a criminal. We need to start advertising that every single day and putting their pictures all over social media.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Now, ICE has been big into social media. They are the first to meme the heck out of their own imagery of taking people down. Is there an omission here that they've got to rethink the strategy?

BLUEY: Perhaps. I do think some of the poll numbers are concerning that you've discussed here, Audie. I think the other thing I'd add to Tom Homan's comments are, the president needs to focus on what's happening at the border. After the crisis that we had during the Biden administration, we've basically seen entries into the country come to a screeching halt. He should be hitting --

CORNISH: So, taking it to the inland is not --

BLUEY: Yes, we're not seeing that same problem. And then I think the other thing that I would -- I would just remind everybody here, again, just like the economy, just like health care, the president is in a position where he's having to clean up the mess of his predecessors. Oftentimes they were Democrats who put him in this position to begin with. And so just reminding the American people that we wouldn't necessarily have to have the enforcement were it not for the Democrat policies that put us in this place.

CORNISH: Or convincing them that that matters, right? Like, the same thing with the economy. At a certain point is it his economy?

NAVARRO: I think also that's a losing message. I've got to tell you. There's a statute of limitations on blaming the last guy. I mean, I think that that goes for -- every president does it. Every single one. Literally, you know, since time --

BLUEY: Democrat, Republican.

NAVARRO: Democrat, Republican, since time immemorial. But there's a statute of limitations.

CORNISH: Well, you guys, let me get -- I have one other thing I want to ask, because after all these years, here we are, back in Minnesota, talking about state sanctioned violence and what it means to have accountability. That's what the defund the police thing was all about. And there were some reforms that came out of it.

Now you have J.D. Vance, I'm not going to play this, but he talks about the idea of qualified immunity and talking about the present (ph) here. It's very simple. You have a federal law enforcement official engaging in his job and that he's protected by absolute immunity.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He's not protected by absolute immunity. He's protected by immunity (ph).

CORNISH: Say that one more time.

WILLIAMS: He is not protected by absolute immunity. He is protected -- he's immune from many types of lawsuit. But if he violates the law, like if he were to get drunk and crash the car somewhere, he's certainly --

CORNISH: Yes, an ICE official.

WILLIAMS: Yes, an ICE official, then certainly he can be -- you know, he can be held accountable for that.

[07:00:02]

So, yes, we should all agree that law enforcement should get broad protection from lawsuit, but it's not absolute.

CORNISH: ICE -- I'm sorry, Elliot, I hope you are --

WILLIAMS: I am ICE.

CORNISH: You are ICE. I'm glad you're here. I hope you're back next week. I think a lot of people watching have a lot of questions now about what their own rights are as a result of all of this.

Thank you, guys, so much for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. And the headlines are next.