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GOP Leaders Call for Pretti Investigation; Noem, Miller Rebuked; Quinton Lucas is Interviewed about ICE in Minnesota. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 28, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Outbreak in the U.S. since the disease was declared eliminated. That was more than 25 years ago. Right now there are nearly 800 cases reported in the state. Outbreaks in North Carolina, Washington and California, they're all being linked to South Carolina.

And at least 30 people confirmed dead from last weeks -- last weekend's massive winter storm. Officials say several of those deaths are linked to hypothermia and snow shoveling.

All right, as we learn more new details about the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti, Homeland Security says in their initial report two officers fired their guns during the encounter in Minneapolis. Now we're hearing from the woman who recorded the whole thing. Her name is Stella Carlson. Many have called her the lady in the pink coat. You see her there. She's standing right by the encounter. And she had intended to spend last Saturday morning painting kids' faces at a church. So, instead, she ended up videotaping Alex Pretti's final moments. Carlson's images helped unravel the Trump administration's efforts to paint Pretti as a would-be assassin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STELLA CARLSON, RECORDED PRETTI'S DEATH: I watched him die. I mean, I watched him die. I remember him arching his back and his head rolling back, and he look -- it was so fast moving, and -- but not for me.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You knew he was gone then.

CARLSON: I knew he was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Some top Republicans now speaking out after DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and presidential adviser Stephen Miller had both labeled Pretti a domestic terrorist in the hours after his death. Senate Majority Leader John Thune wants that kind of spin to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): The death of Alex Pretti was a tragedy, and there should be a full and impartial investigation into the shooting. I'm glad that the president is sending Tom Homan to Minnesota, and I hope that his arrival will help restore order to the situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, the group chat is back.

So, I want to take you guys on a little journey. The journey of Stephen Miller, who January 24th, 1:43, his tweet is this, "an assassin tried to murder federal agents and this is your response." He's responding to someone else. Then later he also says, "a would-be assassin tried to murder federal law enforcement, and the official Democrat account sides with the terrorists." OK. And now here we are. "We are evaluating why the CBP team may not have been following that protocol." Shift.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. There's clearly been a sense inside the administration that this has -- this has all gotten out of hand and in a way that is --

CORNISH: And that this isn't work -- this kind of response isn't working, right?

ANDERSON: That it's not working. That people are not buying it. You know, the initial reports coming out last weekend were, you know, somebody approached law enforcement with a gun. And when you hear that, you think, OK, well, suddenly it does throw into question was -- what was justified? Gosh, you know, a gun was involved. As, Zach, you were talking about earlier, people feel like there's maybe too many guns out there. This all feels really bad. But then the video, I think, changes it. And whether it's this video, the video of Renee Good, I mean, these videos --

CORNISH: Yes, you're saying "the video." There is so much video. Yes.

ANDERSON: Right, these -- the video content, I think, is changing the way these events are perceived. They're changing the communication strategy around them. And I think the administration also recognizes, look, immigration was an issue on which they had an enormous political advantage for a long time, and that has evaporated in the last couple of months in terms of this.

CORNISH: Here's Thom Tillis' response to Stephen Miller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Look, that's just musical chairs at the top leadership of ICE. You don't make change by just moving someone out and bringing the same type mouthpiece in, in another suit. So, what we want is substantive change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: That is obviously not Thom Tillis. That's Bennie Thompson of Mississippi making the point about who is going to be in leadership. But he's actually making a similar point to Thom Tillis, the Republican from North Carolina. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Stephen Miller never fails to live up to my expectations of incompetence.

REPORTER: Why do you think he should resign?

REPORTER: Should Secretary Noem be fired?

TILLIS: I did -- I'm going to leave that up to the president. I can tell you, if I were president, neither one of them would be in Washington right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: It's one thing to do here, I'm deeply disturbed, I'm deeply disappointed. This speaking out about one of the president's top lieutenants I found striking.

ZACHARY WOLF, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER: Yes. I mean let's realize who Thom Tillis is. He has been a critic of the Trump administration out there among Republicans. So, this is not exactly a rank-and-file senator, you know, calling for this. But he's a Republican senator.

I think, more importantly, you know, we should temper our expectations here, to Congressman Thompson's point, because the person who really has set the agenda is President Trump.

[06:35:02]

It's not like all these people were acting -- you know, if you believe --

CORNISH: I thought the same thing. This conversation that was like, Kristi Noem, she'd gone too far. What did she do? It's all her fault. And I was like, I don't think anything Kristi Noem has done has been something the president didn't want her to do. That -- her energy is not, I'm out on my own on this. Am I miscalculating?

ANDERSON: Well, I think that the difference here is, President Trump has talked a lot about, we've got to go get the bad guys, the criminals. We've got to get them out of the country. And when you frame it that way to voters, you find, you know, 60, 70 percent say, yes, absolutely.

The question is, are there other folks inside the administration that think that's not good enough? I want everyone who's here illegally out.

CORNISH: Well, we know there are. One of them is Stephen Miller.

ANDERSON: Exactly.

CORNISH: Yes. ANDERSON: And the pressure to get those numbers up, to get those people deported, is that -- a lot of what's feeding the actions of ICE that are creating -- that are involved in this chaos in these cities.

ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: But the millions of dollars that have been spent to do that, they've failed on their mission. And I think that's what Republicans and Democrats would agree on.

But here's what I would say to the 12 Republicans who all of a sudden found their religion. This is -- minus these two executions happening on camera. And now a third little girl died at the hands of ICE just last night, late last night. Minus these things happening, we would not even be having this conversation. So, I think it's important.

And might I add, this is what happens when you have unqualified, unserious people running key roles in our government. And I think that's the problem. A nurse legally carrying a firearm and a cell phone is not a domestic terrorist. The rhetoric coming from this White House, this administration and this unqualified need to be impeached DHS secretary is part of the reason why we're here. And that further proves the distrust between law enforcement and everyday citizens.

I'm a -- y'all, I'm a 40-year-old black man. I know what it's like to perhaps have a routine traffic stop or a routine interaction with law enforcement turn into a death sentence. America has seen that on camera with communities that do not look like mine, and we have to adjust the temperature.

CORNISH: I want to come back to something you said at the start of your comment about, I think you were alluding to the fact that after Renee Good was shot, the rhetoric was still, what was she doing there? Why was she there? Why was her wife yelling? Is this a domestic terror network? And so, when the second shooting came, I was actually not so surprised to hear how the administration responded.

But let me play something for you, because this is reflected in this kind of point of view. Here's Megyn Kelly talking about Alex Pretti.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: What this is, is confirmation that this guy was out there looking for a fight. It proves this guy was an agitator and he was part of the terror crew that felt they could insert themselves in between a cop and his target.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF: It's a playbook. I mean, anybody who is opposed to the administration in any way is demonized. It's somebody who's protesting. No matter what you're doing, they're going to come at -- come after you in this way and say that you're opposed to them and the Americans and, you know, we see it playing out.

And you can't do it if it's not true. And it doesn't appear to be true in this case. ANDERSON: Well, but it's also true that when I've asked in my surveys,

do you believe that it's justifiable to interfere with federal law enforcement, most people also don't like that. The question is, does interfering in what federal law enforcement is doing warrant you getting killed? And that's where a lot of people go, no, no, no, that is not justifiable.

CORNISH: Or, what do we mean when we say interference? But, yes.

SEAWRIGHT: But these are the people who gave people like Kyle Rittenhouse the lifetime achievement award when he showed up with a gun. January 6ers showed up with a gun. They praised those people and pardoned those people. In Missouri, the couple with guns showed up. These are people who celebrate these people. But all of a sudden this is wrong. This is problematic.

There have been 12 people shot since September at the hands of ICE that we know of. God knows what other incidents may have happened.

CORNISH: Yes.

SEAWRIGHT: I think there has to be some sense of accountability to this agency, to this leadership. And certainly the White House has to step in and do something, otherwise we're going to be in deep, dark territory.

CORNISH: Yes, I have to say, CNN actually learned that Mr. Pretti broke a rib the week before his death in an encounter with a federal agent. So, there are questions now about what was happening leading up to this.

And I also want to mention some of the polling. Back in January 23rd, Reuters did some polling. How do you, in the public, think about the president's handling of immigration? Republicans, as you say, approve, right, 84 percent. And the number I care about that has moved, independents disapproving, moving that up to 57 percent.

Again, how -- has ICE gone too far? Here's where we have a weird split among Republicans, which sort of surprised me. Independents, 63 percent that ICE has gone too far.

So, who will take the fall for what's happening in Minnesota? Top Border Patrol leader Gregory Bovino was pulled out of Minneapolis.

[06:40:03]

New reporting from "Axios" say Stephen Miller and Kristi Noem taking the heat because of the language, as we discussed, that they used after the shooting of Alex Pretti. Noem was summoned to the White House for a two hour meeting with Trump. And now some Republicans are questioning if she should be removed altogether.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): If I were in her position, I can't think of any point in pride over the last year. She's got to make her own decision, or the president does. But she is taking this administration into the ground on an issue that we should own. We should own the issue of border security and immigration. But they have destroyed that for Republicans. Something that got the president elected, they have destroyed it through their incompetence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Group chat is back.

Now this is a trust building exercise, right? The president is saying he is going to somehow personally be watching the investigation into the death of Pretti. Maybe because some people have some doubts, we've seen in polling after the investigation into Renee Good kind of turned into an investigation of Renee Good.

So, what do you make of the fact that now even the president is saying, look, I'm going to keep an eye on this?

WOLF: Well, I mean, I want to hear him say a lot more of that. I want to monitor his social media. I want to see if -- the proof will be in the pudding. If they're -- if Trump actually does change over this, I will be shocked because he has had the same message for his entire decade of political career. And, you know, some changes at DHS will probably be good for the people of Minnesota. But I'm not sure it's going to signal that much different in the administration.

CORNISH: You've got our CNN polling. This was in early January after Renee Good's shooting at the hands of an ICE officer when she was in her vehicle. Sixty-two percent of people polled said they did not trust the federal investigation into her shooting. So, I can't imagine the conversation now after Pretti's shooting.

I don't know if this is something you're going to be asking. Kristen, how are -- how are you thinking about how the administration is trying to shift the tone?

ANDERSON: Yes, I mean, well, there's just -- there's no trust in institutions these days. For a long time Republicans have been the ones that have said, I don't trust the government. I don't trust the federal government. I don't trust institutions. And now it's not as though -- I mean trust has gone up among Republicans in the ability of the federal government to do things, but not enormously.

Meanwhile, on the other side, trust among everybody else has really cratered in the last year.

CORNISH: But this is among an investigation, right?

ANDERSON: Right. But it --

CORNISH: This is -- like people -- I don't know about you, but I've just been reading so much about people distrusting the FBI under Kash Patel. People, I mean, whether it's Epstein. There's like, now we don't trust actually the act of policing that comes from the federal government. That feels a little bit different for this administration.

ANDERSON: Different -- different, how so?

CORNISH: To --

ANDERSON: I mean, like these declines in trust have been happening for a long time, in part because you had, during the first Trump administration, you know, declining trust in a lot of institutions, especially around Covid. That persisted during the Biden administration. But now that Trump's back in power, it's not as though the Republican numbers have rebounded. It's just everybody else is now more distrustful too.

CORNISH: OK.

SEAWRIGHT: Trump thrives off chaos, confusion and fear. So, part of this is to create trust and a sense of uncertainty with the government, because that's how he thrives. The president ran on border security, not necessarily the issue of ICE illegally raiding homes, going to restaurants and so forth. So, I think you have to separate --

CORNISH: He ran on a mass deportation scheme.

SEAWRIGHT: He did, but not at this level, not to this capacity to where people have been killed. And I think that's why you see the tectonic plates shifting as it relates to the polling.

I will also add to the senators again who found their religion, they voted to confirm this person who's the HHS secretary. And now she's very problematic.

CORNISH: Well, let me ask you one more question. Hakeem Jeffries, I want to play this before we go. He is on TV saying that they are prepared to initiate impeachment proceedings against her in the House of Representatives. And in the past I had heard, like, you know, Nancy Pelosi, for instance, saying, don't bother trying to impeach Trump again.

Do you think that Democrats are going to start to expend energy in this direction of calling for her impeachment? And should they take the House, moving on it?

SEAWRIGHT: I think Democrats should use every tool available in the toolbox to send a message that this should not be tolerated in the United States of America. So, whether it's impeachment, whether it's funding, I think those things are a must, not a plus.

CORNISH: OK. You guys, if you missed any of that conversation, because I know you are talking about these things at home, know that we are a podcast too. Scan the QR code now to find it. CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.

And next, a group of mayors are confronting Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They are demanding the end to the federal crackdown in Minnesota. I'm going to speak with one of those mayors, next.

Plus -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump and Infantino together have just completely and utterly ruined world football.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Growing calls to boycott the World Cup. What that could mean for local economies.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:49:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: How many more residents, how many more Americans need to die or get badly hurt for this operation to end?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey standing by his call for the federal immigration operation to end in his city after the killing of Alex Pretti. And other mayors are standing by him. Dozens of local government officials have filed a brief in federal court supporting Minnesota's lawsuit against the Trump administration. They argue that, quote, "by treating residents like enemy combatants and our neighborhoods like war zones, ICE is hurting the children and families who live in the cities targeted by these violent and coercive surge operations."

[06:50:01]

Joining us now in the group chat is one of the mayors who joined that brief, Mayor Quinton Lucas of Kansas City, Missouri.

Thank you so much for being here.

Before we get started on ICE, I wanted to ask you about that kind of attack on Ilhan Omar at an event last night.

MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS (D), KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI: Yes.

CORNISH: You speak publicly everywhere. I don't know what it was like for you watching that, or if it was something that other mayors were talking about.

LUCAS: It is something we're talking about. It is something that's more realistic with which we deal all the time now. You are seeing angrier people. And I've been mayor since the Covid era, but the vitriol right now, the culture war we see in our cities and the attacks we're seeing on more elected officials is horrifying to many of us.

Step one, we need to find a way to get security to respond faster to these situations. You've got to get in between the threat. But more to the point, you are seeing these activated people. And when the president tweets about you or Truth Socials about you, that means you become a target. You're seeing that all around America, whether it be Ilhan Omar, and particularly black women who are targeted, or some big city mayors, which we've also seen along the way.

CORNISH: I want to -- mayors have been on the front line of all this because every time there is an ICE surge or operation, it is frequently in a city led by Democratic officials. But one of the arguments I hear over and over again is, this is happening in Minneapolis because they did not cooperate with immigration officials. Are you cooperating with immigration officials?

LUCAS: I don't think that we are giving any more or any less cooperation than the folks in Minneapolis. The general story is that there's always constitutionally been an anti-commandeering approach to what the federal government can do. They can't just come into your city, tell you we're taking over all of your police officers and make you do anything under the sun.

Indeed, Minneapolis has about 600 police officers, but about 3,000 DHS agents present now. If they used every police officer to help them, there still wouldn't be enough to do it. What Minneapolis is doing is very simply saying, we are trying to do core law enforcement work. This is still the city that dealt with protests post-George Floyd. They are trying to build trust, not detract from it. And this is something that's fundamentally undermining it.

So, I think every American city says, we want people to be safe, but we don't want the feds coming in to start riots, to start more engagement in conflict, which is exactly what you're seeing in the -- in the twin cities.

CORNISH: So, Department of Homeland Security is eyeing Kansas City, according to new reporting in "The Kansas City Star." ICE wants to buy a facility there to use as a detention center. Are you agreeing to that?

LUCAS: No, not at all. We are -- we are fundamentally opposed. What they're talking about is a facility between 5,000 and 10,000 humans who will be warehoused in something that was built as an Amazon distribution facility. And the attractiveness of the site is because it's next to railroads. I don't like big encampments next to train tracks and all of that. I think that is terribly un-American. It is something we're fundamentally opposed to. We have passed zoning changes within the last two weeks to oppose the construction of any large-scale detention facility. And what's most important is, you are seeing every American city fight back in whatever way it can. We're fighting back against detention, as have suburbs all around us.

CORNISH: So, you're trying to fight the building of this detention center?

LUCAS: We sure are.

CORNISH: How are you able to do it, other than passing the zoning? I mean is there anything you can do?

LUCAS: Well, you know, usually the federal government uses private contractors to do it. There is a supremacy clause question. But our view is, we get to control our zoning in the same way that local governments get to control their policing. We're all going to take every step we need possible, because when you cannot trust the federal government to do right, you need to use every tool in your arsenal to address.

CORNISH: So, I have been hearing there are some activists in Kansas City who are saying, look, we got the games coming up. There's a lot of stuff going on. The mayor should declare this a full sanctuary city, give -- especially in light of these shootings.

And then, in the meantime, you have someone like Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania. Here's what he told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): I absolutely reject to abolish or defund, you know, ICE. ICE is necessary, but it needs to make some changes at this point. So, that's -- here we are.

So, shutting the government down and punishing and not paying the military and all of the other critical parts of our government will now shut down if this is shut down. It is not going to defund or do anything (AUDIO GAP) ICE because there have -- there's billions and billions after the big, beautiful bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can I get your response to that? You know, he mentions this idea of defund ICE. And I'm sure you are hearing it.

LUCAS: You know, we are hearing a lot of it. And I think it -- we just have to make one thing clear, ICE is out of control. You got to believe what your eyes show. A man on a street getting shot in the back multiple times after a tussle that he was not the cause for is wrong. Renee Good's murder, which we've all somewhat moved on from, is also wrong.

CORNISH: So, if not these moments, when, to use a phrase like abolish ICE?

[06:55:01]

LUCAS: Right. You need to actually find some level of accountability. And I don't think that accountability is coming from the administration right now. I think congressional Democrats are asking for something that is very clear and simple, which is to make sure that you are not funding an agency that is restricting the rights of Americans, indeed the rights, in my view, of an entire American city and jumping from place to place to do it.

CORNISH: But haven't Democratic leaders struggled with talking about border and border security and immigration? And there's this running argument that says that none of this would be happening if these leaders of Democratic cities did more, did more somehow when it comes to immigration and picking up people who are here unlawfully.

LUCAS: You know who hasn't struggled with it? The mayor of Chicago, the mayor of Minneapolis, I'll say the mayor of Kansas City. We live in the middle of the country. We are trying to run cities, make them safer. Crime is down in almost all of them. We have addressed a lot of the issues that come to us.

Now, there may be broader federal debates about immigration policy long term, and we welcome them. What that should not be done, however, is that the people of the twin cities have to have an interruption in their way of life, that we have to have people -- I mean, if you think of Alex Pretti, his First, Second, Fourth, Eighth and 14th Amendment rights were violated before he was slain, that's the sort of thing that this is not just a political debate, this is something that has negatively impacted Americans and middle America and all throughout. And that's why I think accountability is necessary from the Senate.

CORNISH: I don't know if Zach has any questions. This is your time to jump in.

WOLF: Yes. You know, very simply, I was going to switch to the World Cup.

CORNISH: I'm glad you are. OK, well, then, hold on one second. I have a whole thing about that.

OK, so we wanted to talk to you about the World Cup. And here's why. Because your city, Kansas City, hosting six matches this summer, including a quarterfinal at Arrowhead Stadium. There are now some calls, we're hearing from people online, to, look, we should boycott these matches in the U.S. because of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. You've got international leaders, a U.N. diplomat, even the former president of FIFA with calls to stay away from the U.S. matches. So, this has implications, obviously, for your city.

What are your concerns as these calls grow?

LUCAS: You know, I think concern one is to make sure that everybody can come to our city, be safe and welcome. And, unfortunately, that means be welcome and safe from a federal government that, at times, is depriving rights as well. We are working with consular bureaus from around the world, obviously, for the countries that are coming, I hope people do come to America.

Bu, look, I will say the fear is well based. If you are somebody who's saying, I see a lot of concerns. You've read about tourists from all types of countries, from Germany, from any number of places that have said they've had issues coming to our country. So, I hope that is cleared up between now and the World Cup, later the L.A. Olympics in 2028. We need to make sure that this is a country that is welcoming people.

CORNISH: Are you in a dialog with Homeland Security at all right now about this, ahead of this?

LUCAS: You know, we do talk to Homeland Security. There is a White House FIFA task force. We work well with them. That being said, I think what we've tried to say, and make clear is this, we want more people. We have invested a lot of money into getting people here. We need to make sure that works.

And what I just hope is not just the rhetoric, but some of the harms we're seeing to people, not just Americans, is something that abates well before the World Cup matches come up.

CORNISH: I want to ask you about something we ask everyone on this panel, which is, what is in your group chat.

LUCAS: Yes.

CORNISH: We know the U.S. conference of mayors is going on, so you guys are doing a lot of chatter. What are you hearing from people?

LUCAS: You know, what I'm hearing from people is a lot about the murder of Alex Pretti this last weekend. And I think what I've heard from a lot of folks and from my background is, they went too far when they started shooting and killing Americans in the Midwest, a white mother from Minneapolis, a white man who works at the V.A., the types of people that are sympathetic victims, right or wrong, but in some ways it is showing what this crisis is right now. This is not about the most dangerous --

CORNISH: Yes, there were a lot of like tweets and things like that on social media with people, many white people who were like --

LUCAS: Yes.

CORNISH: I didn't expect it to be this.

LUCAS: That's right.

CORNISH: I didn't expect it to be that. And then like a shower of replies from black sort of users saying, well, actually, we watched, you know, ten years of this under the Black Lives Matter movement of people dying at the hands of law enforcement.

LUCAS: It has always been, I think, for a black American, something that you know that you recognize, that you try to fight that is wrong. A lot of people said after the end of the George Floyd protests things changed back. A lot of people's struggle never ended.

The thing that's interesting about this operation right now, it is Minneapolis, middle America. It is something that's impacting a lot of people, at least visually. And they're saying it could be us. And they're finally saying, that is too far. And if it could be us, I think that's how you see the polling suggest -- that suggest it is such a problem now.

CORNISH: OK. Mayor Lucas thank you so much for being here.

LUCAS: Thank you.

CORNISH: Appreciate your time.

You guys, thank you so much for being with us today and talking about this. The things we're going to be watching this week, will lawmakers call for any kinds of hearings? Will lawmakers have a threat to the end of the government shutdown?

[07:00:06]

Could there be a government shutdown over DHS spending? And I want you to stick around because next on "NEW CENTRAL" they're actually going to have Hakeem Jeffries. And he's going to be asked some of these questions about what is next for Democrats.

So, thank you for waking up with us. Thank you for spending time with us at this table. I'm Audie Cornish, and the headlines are going to be next.