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Air Canada Jet Hits Firetruck; Two Pilots Killed in Runway Collision; Peter Goelz is Interviewed about the LaGuardia Accident; Darrell English is Interviewed about ICE Helping TSA. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired March 23, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Fire truck drivers. They are in stable condition.

I want to play for you what we're hearing this morning, which is a clip of the air traffic control communications at the moment of the crash.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOWER: Frontier 4195, just stop there, please.

Stop, stop, stop, stop. Truck one, stop, stop, stop. Stop, truck one. Stop. Stop, truck one. Stop.

Jazz 646, I see you collided with the vehicle. Just hold position. I know you can't move. Vehicles are responding to you now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, walk me through it. That, stop, stop, stop.

HARVEY SCOLNICK, RETIRED FAA CONTROLLER: Right. So, there's a protocol here. You have two positions in the tower. One is the ground controller who controls all of the taxiways and all those areas that are designated as movement areas on the airport. And then there is a local controller, or some people call them the tower controller. That's the one who says, clear the land, clear for takeoff, and the one who's responsible for the runway. There has to be coordination between the ground controller and the local controller when runways are crossed. Sometimes each -- every place is a little different, but normally the ground controller would keep the crossing vehicle on the -- on the ground controller frequency. Some places -- in some places it's mandated that you would change the -- change the crossing vehicle -- the ground vehicle to the local controller, and the local controller would be the one to say, cross the runway.

CORNISH: Well, Harvey, hold on one second, because we actually might have some of the traffic sound from that with the -- what the emergency vehicle heard.

Let me play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PILOT: Ground 2384 is declaring an emergency. Flight attendants in the back are feeling ill because of the odor. We will need to go into any available gate at this time.

TOWER: OK, roger that. And the fire trucks are over there. They're going to bring a truck just in case you guys do want to evacuate. Let me know if you do.

PILOT: Copy. Yes, we'd prefer to wait on a gate, but, I mean, again, that's -- we only got so much time here because there's still a bit of an odor in the back of the airplane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, to clarify, this is what that firetruck was responding to, right? They -- this was the thing that was going on, on the other side of that runway that they were trying to get to.

SCOLNICK: They were. So, the fire trucks called the ground controller, getting clearance to go on to a portion of the field. That is controlled. And then the ground controller would say, hold short of Runway Four at whatever intersection they're approaching. In this case, I'm thinking that it might have been taxiway delta. The taxiways are given letters, the runways are given numbers according to their magnetic heading. And so, the ground controller would then call the local controller saying, I have vehicles at taxiway delta. I want to cross the Runway Four. The local controller would say either hold or clear to cross Runway Four. And normally the ground controller would repeat that back and then go back to the vehicles and say, cross Runway Four. Don't know what happened here. Don't know. I'm not -- you know, it --

CORNISH: So, you're identifying for us kind of a point where the NTSB will be looking to investigate, right? We heard from some passengers exiting, some of our reporters were able to hear from people, and some of them described the hard break that the pilots had to do just before they were killed in this crash.

SCOLNICK: No, absolutely. So, all -- everything will be listened to. I'm not sure -- it seems as though the -- that the two positions were decombined (ph). In other words, there was a ground controller operating on the ground control frequency and a tower controller, or a local controller, operating on that frequency. So, it looks like both positions were staffed. Obviously, the NTSB will be looking into all these things before they decide what happened and how to recommend this never happen again. But runway incursions have been a problem in the FAA for years and years.

CORNISH: Yes. I have to say, Harvey, you and I have not talked in some time. And that was a good thing, right? For while we kept talking about near misses and problems with air traffic control. In the midst of this partial government shutdown, what are you hearing

from your sort of friends and former colleagues?

SCOLNICK: Well, because this doesn't deal with air traffic control specifically as far as this shutdown is concerned, they are going to work as they normally do.

[06:35:00]

Their job is not at all involved with DH -- TH -- TSA. They just control the airplanes. What happens inside the terminal is another story.

CORNISH: Yes.

SCOLNICK: So, they're completely -- they're completely unaffected.

CORNISH: But all these months later, are working conditions better for them? Meaning, the staffing, the hours, things that we talked about just months ago.

SCOLNICK: So, I'm hearing from some people, and the answer to that question is, generally speaking, no. Morale is still low. They're still working six days a week. Many are working ten hours a day. And those conditions haven't changed. The fact that the FAA is planning on hiring 2,600 or so controllers next year, for most of them, and for me included, is not enough. It just seems to me that the FAA is OK with paying overtime rather than hiring at least double the amount of controllers that I think they should be looking at hiring next year and in the future. Because what will change most things for air traffic controllers is having a heck of a lot more people in those facilities to get the job done, rather than having to work six days a week, ten hours a day.

CORNISH: That's Harvey Skolnick.

Thank you so much for your time.

Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, we're going to continue following this breaking news at New York's LaGuardia Airport. A plane has collided with a fire truck on the runway. Two people are dead. Flights are grounded and causing delays to ripple across the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:41:22]

CORNISH: This breaking news this morning, a deadly jet collision at LaGuardia Airport in New York. Two pilots on board an Air Canada jet are dead. Their plane collided with a fire truck on the runway just before midnight. And dozens of other people on the plane were injured. Now, that includes at least two people who were on the fire truck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHRYN GARCIA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PORT AUTHORITY OF NEW YORK: Initial numbers indicate that 41 passengers and crew were transported to the hospital, as well as the ARF (ph) officers. At this time, we understand that 32 have been released, but there are also serious injuries.

Sadly, the two pilots are confirmed deceased and notifications are being made by Air Canada's care team at this time.

It is anticipated that the airport will be closed at least until 2:00 p.m. this afternoon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: And you just heard that all of the airport closed. So, we're going to Gloria Pazmino, who is at LaGuardia.

And I understand you were actually able to learn a bit more about the passengers. And I'm sure there were people already in line for their flights.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. In fact, inside that airplane that collided with the fire truck there were 72 passengers on board, four crew members. But as you said, Audie, the fact that the airport is closed, at least until 2:00, means that there's going to be significant travel disruptions here at LaGuardia Airport. Inside, the boards are already showing that all flights are canceled. The airport being closed means that no flights are leaving and no flights are landing. And that is because right now on the runway you can see the airplane is still sitting there as NTSB investigators are expected to arrive to begin their preliminary investigation.

Those images are really shocking. You see the front of that airplane is completely destroyed. And we understand the pilot and the copilot were killed in this incident.

Here's what we know. The collision happened shortly after 11:40 last night. This was a Jazz Aviation flight that was operating on behalf of Air Canada.

The aircraft, we are told, struck a port authority aircraft rescue and firefighting vehicle that was actually responding to another aircraft, which had requested service.

Now, flight 8646 was coming in from Montreal. It left Montreal around 10:30 last night. It landed here around 11:40 last night. And officials said that the impact happened right as the landing was taking place.

Now, there were several people who were injured. Forty-one passengers and crew members were sent to the hospital. Thirty-two of them have already been released. And those who were not sent to the hospital, we were actually able to speak with because they were leaving the airport a few hours ago after being reunited with their families.

I spoke with one young man who told me that it was a very hard landing. It happened quickly. And they had no indication that there was going to be any trouble on the runway as they were landing. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK CABOT, PASSENGER, AIR CANADA FIGHT 8646: We went down for a regular landing. We came in pretty hard. We immediately hit something and it was just chaos from there. About five seconds later, we had come to a stop. But in that short period, I mean, everybody was hunkered down and everybody was screaming. Pretty quickly -- we didn't have any directions because the pilot's cabin had been kind of destroyed. So, somebody said, let's get the emergency exit and get the door and let's all jump out. And that's exactly what we did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:45:03]

PAZMINO: Now, that passenger told me he did not have any significant injuries, but he described just how hard the landing was. He did say that there were other people who were injured. Just a real panic breaking out inside that airplane as they made that hard line -- that hard landing.

The plane, we are told, was traveling at about 130 miles per hour when it collided with that firefighting vehicle.

I should also mention that the ground stoppage that was put in place shortly after the incident was lifted. But as I said, the airport remains closed. The NTSB beginning its preliminary investigation. And we expect that we might hear from NTSB officials here later today.

Audie.

CORNISH: OK, Gloria Pazmino, speaking to us from LaGuardia Airport, where the NTSB is now investigating this overnight collision.

We're going to be talking to a former crash investigator right after the break about what went wrong at LaGuardia.

Plus, ICE agents are now deployed to join TSA agents at airports all over the country. We're going to hear from a TSA officer about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:50:33]

CORNISH: So, we have breaking news on two fronts this morning. These are two stories that are going to impact air travel all over the country.

First, a deadly collision at New York's LaGuardia Airport. An Air Canada flight collided during landing with a fire truck on the runway, killing the two pilots on board. The airport now closed to allow for an investigation.

Also today, the administration is deploying ICE agents to airports while TSA agents remain unpaid during this partial government shutdown. Now, joining me now to discuss the investigation, Peter Goelz. He's

the former NTSB managing director.

Peter, thank you for being with us.

First, I want to walk through our audience what we know so far. It's an Air Canada Express Flight 8646. And it struck an aircraft rescue and firefighting vehicle. That vehicle had been called to an emergency earlier in the night. And here's what it was told by air traffic control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PILOT: Ground 2384 is declaring an emergency. Flight attendants in the back are feeling ill because of the odor. We will need to go into any available gate at this time.

TOWER: OK, roger that. And the fire trucks are over there. They're going to bring a truck just in case you guys do want to evacuate. Let me know if you do.

PILOT: Copy. Yes, we'd prefer to wait on a gate, but, I mean, again, we only got so much time here because there's still a bit of an odor in the back of the airplane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, they were crossing the airport and they were trying to get to Runway Four. And this is what the air traffic control was telling the truck at the moment of collision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOWER: Frontier 4195, just stop there, please.

Stop, stop, stop, stop. Truck one, stop, stop, stop. Stop, truck one. Stop. Stop, truck one. Stop.

JAZZ 646, I see you collided with the vehicle. Just hold position. I know you can't move. Vehicles are responding to you now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, based on what we're hearing, just these very two early clips, can you give us a sense of what NTSB will be looking at now?

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Sure, Audie. The NTSB will be arriving this morning. Chairman Homendy is going to lead the team. She is an experienced investigator. She's been at the NTSB. She knows what she's doing.

This is going to be a very important accident today because it underscores two of the most pressing aviation problems that the country is facing. One is, there continues to be a shortage of air traffic controllers. And the tower at LaGuardia, which is staffed by about 30 controllers, is targeted to get 60. And now they're not there. So, the controllers who are working are working long hours, they're getting overtime. There is likely a question of fatigue.

Secondly, when you -- the fire truck that was on the ground has a transponder. I listened to the audiotape very carefully. And there was a lot going on, on the airport at that time. And as you could tell just from the portions we heard, the conversations were clipped and quick. The truck asked for permission to clear, cross Runway Four. The read back was that they saw them at Runway Four. I never heard the word "confirmed to cross," but it was apparent that the fire truck felt that they had the approval to go across.

CORNISH: Yes.

GOELZ: This is going to be a very tough accident.

CORNISH: Peter, people without your experience, though, are going to hear the basic kind of news reporting on this and think, how could they have missed a plane coming towards them? Help us understand what it's like at night, whether weather could be a factor.

GOELZ: Exactly. This is -- you know, this is the 20th largest airport in the country. It is a very confined space. You've got two active runways. You have an enormous number of flights taking off at that time. And you've got something unusual, an emergency vehicle being called out.

Now, the vehicle has a transponder. The -- is under the control of the tower. But there was a lot going on.

[06:55:01]

And I think that's where the attention is going to be.

CORNISH: OK, Peter Goelz, formerly of NTSB. We're going to check in with you later because this investigation will be kicking off this morning.

And I want to turn to another part of the story at airports today, because the airport at LaGuardia is now closed until about 2:00 p.m. And in the meantime, at other airports, where there are long lines, ICE has been deployed to help TSA agents because of the partial government shutdown. And TSA agents are not getting paid.

So, I want to talk now with Darrell English. He's a TSA agent and president of his local TSA chapter of the American Federation of Government Workers.

I wanted to talk to you this morning because I was hearing earlier that people whose flights were canceled, they're probably going to have to leave the airport, go right back out and be screened all over again to come back in. What's your initial reaction of this incident and the fact that the airport is going to be closed today?

DARRELL ENGLISH, TSA OFFICER: Well, it's always concerning and terrible to hear when an unfortunate accident like that happened and a loss of life. So, the main thing is to make sure that all passengers are secured and that security is there to make sure that they're able to reboard the planes.

Over the weekend, you had lawmakers huddling, trying to find a compromise on ICE and ICE tactics in order so that they could pass a government shutdown. Now, the irony here is it's ICE agents that are going to be coming in to help TSA. Do you have a clearer sense, as of this morning, about what they can and cannot do?

ENGLISH: Well, as far as what their -- what their goal is, right now we are unaware about exactly what they can or can't do. TSA officers are very highly trained and dedicated. They understand the threat that's out there for the aviation and flying public. These officers also with TSA are very high -- are highly trained also. So, I can't see them doing anything as far as screening procedures are. So, it might be limited as far as what they can do.

CORNISH: One of the things we were hearing from Tom Homan over the weekend is that they would be helping at exits, that they would be helping in those sort of security areas to free up agents. Let me play for you now him and Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: We're simply there to help TSA do their job in areas that don't need their specialized expertise, such as, you know, screening through the x-ray machine. We're not trained in that, we won't do that.

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: They run those same type of security machines at the southern border, right? Packages come through or people come through, they run similar assets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can I get you to react to their explanation?

ENGLISH: Well, again, TSA officers are very -- are highly trained in screening. So, again, I don't know exactly what ICE has been trained in as far as their equipment. There could be a difference in technology, which I do believe it would be. The practices at the airport are different anywhere else. Only at the airport you'll see that kind of situations. So, again, it's hard to --

CORNISH: Darrell, can I interrupt you. When you say it's different, for those of us who don't know, does that mean you're trained in concealment? Is it about -- like, are there specific things to airport security, which, you know, came out of 911?

ENGLISH: Yes, since 9/11 came, we look for different things that maybe not be at the border where ICE may be looking at as far as their items. Again, I'm not -- I'm not informed (ph) about what items they look at. But at the airports, we are specifically trained for certain things that may affect aviation. So, it's different than what at the border line may be looking at for what they may be trying to detect.

CORNISH: Will it help, though, just to free up bodies so that they -- the people who are trained, the people who are TSA, can ease this -- the lines and delays?

ENGLISH: It probably depend on the airport in itself. Some airports are only staffed with one individual. Some may have two. I'm not for sure exactly if one or two individuals would help in that aspect. But any individual that may be free as far as to assist in certain duties would be helpful. But again, when you're only talking about one or two people, I'm not for sure exactly how much importance or how much assistance that that person could give, depending on the airport size.

CORNISH: I have just a few seconds left, but it's Monday. What's your message to lawmakers who are still grinding it out, trying to find a compromise?

ENGLISH: Well, I believe that lawmakers should get together and resolve this issue. It's unfortunate that we have to bring in another agency to assist with TSA. TSA officers are very highly trained and skilled. They've been doing this for over 20 years. And ever since -- and ever since 9/11, there hasn't been another 9/11. So, we want to make sure that we get these highly trained officers back on duty, doing what they know is best and to protect the flying public.

[07:00:06]

CORNISH: OK, that's Darrell English, TSA officer. Thank you for being with us.

And again, we're going to continue this breaking news today on a collision at LaGuardia Airport, where Air Canada Express Flight 8646 struck a firefighting truck that was crossing the runway that was Runway Four. The other thing we want to follow up with is the fact that the airport will be closed through the afternoon.

Stick with us. We're going to have the headlines and more details on the deaths of those pilots and the injured passengers.