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Rep. Suzan DelBene (D-WA) is Interviewed about the Democratic Party; "The Atlantic" Staff Writer Sarah Fitzpatrick is Interviewed about White House Pardons. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 01, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Departure is leaving fans with mixed emotions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was hoping he'd stay in L.A. But the fact that he's going somewhere else is pretty cool. But LeBron's one of the greatest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean it was nice having him. And I think he should just retire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean he won a championship. It was in a bubble, but he won. So, I guess -- I guess it would be all right. But in Lakers standards, it was -- it was a bust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Almost every team in the NBA is sure to be circling. Even politicians getting in on it. Minnesota Governor Tim Walz posting this, trying to sway him to the Timberwolves.

And straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, another traditional Democrat is out. Does the party have a bigger problem on its hands? The chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Congresswoman Suzan DelBene, joins the group chat next.

And tonight, the U.S. faces Bosnia and Herzegovina for its first knockout game in the World Cup. Whoever wins this match will make it to round 16. The U.S. is hoping to make it to their first quarterfinal since 2002.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:38]

CORNISH: All right, the socialist wave alive and well in the Democratic Party. Last night's Colorado Democratic primary reveals 29- year-old Democratic socialist Melat Kiros defeated 15-term incumbent Diana DeGette. Kiros is a lawyer, PhD student, who has not run for office before. She was born in 1997. That is the same year DeGette took office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELAT KIROS (D), COLORADO CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Experience only matters if you actually do something with it. And we're finding now, with a lot of incumbent Democrats, that they're not actually able to deliver meaningfully on the things that working families need right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, whether traditional Democrats, as Antjuan says, wants to admit it or not, we're seeing a trend. In New York, Mayor Zohran Mamdani endorsed three Democratic socialists in June primaries. They all won. In L.A., progressive city council member Nithya Raman forced a November runoff against incumbent Mayor Karen Bass. Here in Washington, D.C., Democratic socialist Janeese Lewis George has advanced as the top contender for mayor.

And so, we have here Suzan DelBene, Democratic congresswoman, joining the chat because she chairs the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

It is your job to get to 218, right, this fall?

REP. SUZAN DELBENE (D-WA): Two hundred and eighteen in the House.

CORNISH: Two hundred and eighteen in the House.

So, one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you today, we talked earlier in the show about how different factions of Democrats were saying, we're going to spend. We're going to put behind people in various primaries. The Justice Democratic group was one of them. And they now have had at least seven wins. And those wins have been in California, Colorado, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania.

I'm going to put aside philosophical differences. What does it mean when an outside group has had these kinds of gains and forced incumbents off -- out of the spot?

DELBENE: Well, let's be clear, the types of districts we're talking about, bright blue districts across the country, whereas the path to the majority is through purple districts across the country. That's really been our focus.

CORNISH: So, you're not worried about the general in those places?

DELBENE: The path to the majority, none of the --

CORNISH: OK.

DELBENE: You know, what we've seen changes the math to get to the majority. We need to keep purple seats that we have and flip seats that Republicans have to get to 218. We have 71 districts on our map, 45 where we're on offense that we think we can flip. That's the math to get the majority. And frankly, in these districts, in these swing districts, we have incredible candidates running because they are connected to their communities and focused on really appealing across their communities. These are communities with differing political views but it's about bringing people together.

CORNISH: Yes. So, are there any lessons to be drawn, though, from their successes? Are there any lessons to be drawn, even from, let's say, Colorado last night?

DELBENE: Well, there are absolutely lessons to be drawn, which is, have candidates who are deeply connected to their communities, focused on the issues that matter, and really are authentic, independent- minded voices for their communities, who are coming to Congress to get things done.

We actually won last cycle, in 2024, 14 districts that Donald Trump also won. Fourteen Democrats won because we had strong candidates who spoke for people in their communities across ideological bounds. And that, I think, is going to be critical to taking back the majority, including in Colorado.

CORNISH: Let me have you answered to some of the critics then. This is Dan Pfeiffer, co-host of "Pod Save America." I think people kind of tend to think of these guys as Obama bros. But here's what they're saying when they see this outside energy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN PFEIFFER, CO-HOST, "POD SAVE AMERICA": They have captured the energy. They are being more creative. They're being more strategic. They're being more aggressive. And if you are someone in the Democratic establishment, you should be deeply concerned about what this says about where the party is, what the standing of the party is, what the ability of the party infrastructure is to actually win elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can you respond to that? It's very specific.

DELBENE: Well, I think it really comes down to having candidates that -- who I feel -- you know, communities feel like are speaking for them. And in these swing districts across the country, we have incredible candidates, farmers, veterans, mayors.

CORNISH: He says you should be deeply concerned about what this says. And he talks about the ability of party infrastructure to actually win. He's not talking about what you're talking about, right? Like, do the locals connect? He's saying, can you guys help out your people compared to the outsiders who have captured some kind of energy?

[06:40:00]

DELBENE: Absolutely. We gained seats last cycle, ran ahead of the top of the ticket, and are on a strong path across the country to pick up seats. Great candidates. I can't emphasize how important that is to have great candidates across the country, and they are running ahead of Republicans. They have -- they are incredible.

I said, you know, farmers, mayors, veterans --

CORNISH: Yes.

DELBENE: Including in Colorado, who also won in that primary last night in Colorado Five, Jessica Killin, a veteran, a mom, a strong voice for her community, going to flip a seat in Colorado Springs area. And Manny Rutinel, who won the primary in Colorado Eight, running against a Republican, Gabe Evans, who has been the example, kind of the poster child of what people are frustrated with Republicans, cutting health care, cutting food and nutrition.

CORNISH: So then let me talk money. Let me talk money. NRCC, right, your corollary, right now they have raised, at least according to CBS News, 164 million plus, DCCC, $139 million. When I look at the Supreme Court ruling yesterday, which says that there is going to be the ability to coordinate between candidates and party infrastructure on money, there are some people, Zolan help me out, what's the question here? Does it look good for Democrats given --

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: On -- when it comes to the war chest that they have? Some -- no. I mean you've got -- the Republicans have been able to amass massive donations, already signaling that after the Supreme Court decision you're going to see a flood towards something like the Ken Paxton race, right, as well as looking ahead to the general. I think of all those MAGA inc. dinners that have occurred in West Palm Beach as well. That's a little separate.

But when it comes to that money difference right now, they do have an edge.

CORNISH: Can I let her answer this because you're -- this is your job.

DELBENE: Well, first of all, you talked about MAGA Inc. It turns out corruption helps folks raise money there. And I think that the reason Republicans wanted to see this change in campaign finance law is because they know that our candidates are stronger financially than their candidates.

CORNISH: But now that they have it, what do you do? I mean, Platner, right now, has seen his -- and he's running for Senate in Maine against Susan Collins, he has actually seen his lead diminish for a variety of reasons. But some of those reasons are being outspent according to their own campaign three to one in just the last two weeks.

DELBENE: So, we don't need more. We need enough. We have incredible candidates. We are focused on the issues that matter. Families are struggling across the country with high costs. Republicans are indifferent. They don't care that the policies they put in place are hurting working families across the country. We are right on the issues. We have incredible candidates. We need to make sure we have the resources to get the message out, and we will. Republicans are focused on resource because they got nothing else out there. People know that. We still are going to take back the majority all across the country, great candidates, and we'll have the resources to --

CORNISH: OK. Well, one -- I want to let Antjuan jump in because his group chats are blowing up as we are sitting here.

ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It would not be uncommon for us to be outspent in any given election. Republicans have more millionaires and billionaires who --

CORNISH: Is that true?

SEAWRIGHT: Believe that no political romance without finance. That wouldn't be uncommon.

Where our strength has always lied has been with people and the money -- momentum not necessarily money.

And in this conversation we're having with -- this growing pains conversation we're having within our party with these primaries, look, I think growth is good. The real test for some of these candidates who do not consider themselves a part of the Democratic traditional infrastructure is going to be how they continue to galvanize or energize these voters for us to win up and down the ballot in November.

CORNISH: Yes.

SEAWRIGHT: We encourage and we --

CORNISH: But does that mean, Terry, for people like you, you're there writing, like spend here, force them to spend here, force them to spend here. Like, what is the counter?

TERRY SCHILLING, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PRINCIPLES PROJECT: Look -- well, look, there's been a lot of talk about the infrastructure and the process problems that the Democratic Parties have. I think the real problem is actually policy. The Democratic Party, on economics, their messaging used to be so good, but then you had this horrible four years with Joe Biden where people saw 9.5 percent inflation.

SEAWRIGHT: But, wait --

SCHILLING: Real quick.

But at the same time, if Democrats could just moderate on men and women's sports, right?

SEAWRIGHT: Terry, Terry --

SCHILLING: If they could moderate on this crazy trans stuff, you would make my life a lot harder and we wouldn't be able to run as hard a campaign ads. But they're too radical in the culture war.

SEAWRIGHT: But, Terry, Terry --

SCHILLING: And every one of these socialists that's running, they're going to have to -- they're going to force all the people in the purple districts and swing districts to answer to them. James Talarico, is he really going to bring more Democrats across the finish line?

SEAWRIGHT: Terry. Terry, Terry, Terry, Terry --

SCHILLING: I don't think so.

SEAWRIGHT: Terry, with --

CORNISH: Let me -- let me let Antjuan -- but, Antjuan, to his point, he's the guy who makes these kind of ads we're talking about. So --

SEAWRIGHT: Yes, they don't mind trying to distract us with these unnecessary issues. But --

SCHILLING: I don't think the culture is a distraction.

SEAWRIGHT: Let me finish. The bottom line is, the affordability crisis, brought to you and sponsored by Donald Trump --

SCHILLING: And Joe Biden before him.

SEAWRIGHT: Donald Trump, MAGA Mike, and the Republican majority is going to be your liability going into the midterms. Every single issue that you guys campaigned on in the 2024 election, you're upside down on, including the economy.

[06:45:01]

You cannot run away from the fact that more Americans are paying more for gas, goods, groceries, services and health care, including the 18.5 million Americans in places that Donald Trump won who have seen their premiums, co-pays and deductibles rise because of your lack of action.

CORNISH: I just want to bring it --

DELBENE: And it's the one-year anniversary --

CORNISH: Yes.

DELBENE: Of the big, ugly bill. Republicans across the board voting to slash healthcare, slash nutrition --

SCHILLING: So, which --

DELBENE: Basic economic issues.

CORNISH: Yes.

DELBENE: You talk about economic issues.

SCHILLING: So, the goal is to raise taxes on most Americans. That's what that bill primarily did.

DELBENE: Go across -- go -- CORNISH: Ok, let me -- let me pause --

DELBENE: No, go across the country. Go across --

CORNISH: You guys, hold on one second. Let me pause.

To your point, I understand and I hear what you're saying, but we are also going to have a segment about a frozen Congress where the president won't even let them sign their housing affordability bill in front of everyone.

(CROSS TALK)

CORNISH: OK, so that affordability messaging is on a wobbly roller coaster.

DELBENE: They know they're losing. They know they're losing.

CORNISH: But for you guys, I think what I'm trying to understand is, do you end up pulling these folks closer, capturing that energy, or do things get bogged down in this battle about who's under what umbrella?

DELBENE: There is incredible energy around the candidates we have running in these purple districts across the country. I encourage you to go out -- go out to Colorado Five and see Jessica Killin and the work that she is doing to flip a seat there, and how much momentum she's built in her district. Or Manny Rutinel, who is the candidate in Colorado Eight. Go to Arizona and Joe Mendoza in Tucson area, who's also going to flip a seat in (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: I hear the ads to come. But, yes.

DELBENE: They are -- these are folks who are incredible candidates and want to come and make a difference for their communities versus be a rubber stamp for Donald Trump.

CORNISH: All right.

DELBENE: That's all Republicans are right now.

CORNISH: Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here. It's not quite a rubber stamp. We're going to talk about that later, since you all are headed home for recess right now.

But we do want to turn to this.

Apparently, there are 250 presidential pardons for 250 years. Trump wants to have one of the largest clemency actions in modern history.

And then, of course, it's a love story. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's wedding celebration expected to take place at Madison Square Garden in New York City this week. Sources telling CNN a rehearsal will happen tomorrow. Then the wedding is set for Friday.

And then Tuesday CNN saw workers at MSG wearing a Taylor Swift carpenter's t-shirt. Was he just trolling? Is this confirmation? Either way, respect.

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[06:51:30]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have a lot of people have asked me for pardons. I call him Puff Daddy has asked me for a pardon.

Well, I'm allowed to give her a pardon, but I -- nobody's approached me with it. Nobody's asked me about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: President Trump has not been shy about using his executive power to grant pardons since returning to office. He may be getting ready to issue hundreds more.

Now, according to a new report in "The Atlantic," the Trump administration is debating a plan to issue 250 pardons for America's 250th birthday. Who might be on the list?

Well, joining us now in the group chat, Sarah Fitzpatrick, who's the author of that story.

Sarah, can you give me some names? Who are they batting around?

SARAH FITZPATRICK, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": So, there's quite a large name -- group of names that's being discussed, but there are some incredibly controversial names that have come up that even the lobbyists, even the people who are making these deals, feel very uncomfortable with.

For example, the Malaysian fugitive Jho Low, who is credited with laundering billions and billions of dollars. The rapper Pras, who was involved in an illegal influence campaign of Trump officials. And then we've seen even such a discussion, a very serious, high-level discussion of a pardon for the founder of the OneTaste orgasmic meditation cult. And so, we're seeing a kind of -- a mix of people who can afford to go after these pardons, as opposed to the traditional people that you would see pardons who truly are doing it on merit.

CORNISH: So --

FITZPATRICK: And I think that's what's making everyone very concerned.

The other thing is there's -- on the list, I'm told, is quite a few foreign entities, people that are very rich, very well-connected from other countries. And so we're --

CORNISH: Middle Eastern countries or --

FITZPATRICK: A combination. Europe, Middle East, Asia. And so, I think that's giving everyone a lot of pause about, why are we considering, you know, this is an American -- a truly American clemency option. Why are we seeing these people on the list?

CORNISH: Right. Because if you're going to message it -- first of all, it's messaging at its base.

FITZPATRICK: One hundred percent.

CORNISH: It's 250th anniversary, 250 people. It's designed to be talked about. And so, you're saying there are people saying, if we want to talk about it, why would we pick kind of people who are seen as the worst of the worst, and also people who are not Americans or from other places.

FITZPATRICK: And also that our Justice Department, our law enforcement entities have spent so many years, hundreds and thousands of dollars prosecuting. You know, these are very, very serious cases. Of course, the president -- it's up to the president. The president can decide this at any moment. But it really does speak to kind of what is the purpose -- you know, is our justice system truly free and fair for all? Is everyone open to this or only those --

CORNISH: Yes, I see Zolan nodding up a storm. I know the pardon thing within the White House presidential beat, people following it, has been -- people have been talking about this for a long time, ever since the sort of mass pardon that also included January 6th.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.

CORNISH: But it's been a long conversation about who gets a pardon and how that happens.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Who gets a pardon. That's the key, I think, here too, how that happens. It's worth reminding folks that there is a process in place for this. A process that --

CORNISH: The process is not just calling him or his family?

KANNO-YOUNGS: No. No. Or not -- in a pre-Trump 2.0 sort of era, right, you have a situation where there's a long backlog for the clemency process, referrals made from experts, and then it's being processed through the Justice Department as well. The Office of the Pardon Attorney usually handling this as well.

That has been thrown out of the door. And here you have a system where there's almost a cottage industry that's been created, where lobbyists are jockeying with other allies of the president trying to win favor to get people pardoned.

[06:55:09]

CORNISH: Yes. But, Sarah, can I ask, this is the kind of story where at some point someone will say, well, what about? What about Biden? What about Clinton? What about Obama? There's a lot of whataboutism when it comes to White House pardons. So, to you, what about that? Is this all that different or is this one of those Trump things where it's not different it's just out loud?

FITZPATRICK: I think what's different here is that there are people who are making money off of this in a -- at a mass --

CORNISH: People make money off of helping --

FITZPATRICK: Helping.

CORNISH: Yes.

FITZPATRICK: And it's not just, you know, this is an example of, I think, a leadership vacuum or the mixed messaging that comes out of this White House.

For example, this is a frenzy. I cannot tell you. I have lawyers and lobbyists who are telling me, I'm so exhausted I have to turn off my phone because everyone thinks that this is an option for them if they pay enough money. And the White House came out with a statement that was very interesting in response when we came to them with this reporting and said, the president, you know, thinks it's detestable that anyone would try and profit off this. But that's not the messaging that's coming from the president's closest aides. And they could, you know, in the Biden administration, we did see efforts to say, like, knock it off. Everything goes through DOJ. We are going to keep this very close and very tight. That's not the message here.

CORNISH: Yes.

FITZPATRICK: The message here is, when you come to the White House, hey, if you've got a client that might be interested, let us know. And so, I think that, you know, we're seeing the opportunities for real corruption happening at a massive scale.

CORNISH: Right. And it only takes one of those names to come out that it goes sideways for it to blow back hard and backfire with the public.

I want to turn to this because we're talking about this idea of pardons. Earlier, we were talking about what's happening in Congress. But what's not happening in Congress is legislating. Members of the House have gone home. They have no clear path for passing a list of very key bills. And here's the thing, hard line conservatives have refused to support some of these bills because they're frustrated with the president's lead issue, the SAVE America Act, his voting regulation act. President Trump has made this a priority, but there are divisions. Obviously, Senate Republicans say they don't have the votes to pass it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Mike Johnson and Steve Scalise have totally lost control of the House floor and are in the midst of a Republican civil war. Donald Trump is fighting with Senate Republicans. Senate Republicans are fighting with House Republicans. And House Republicans are fighting with each other. The entire thing is a mess. Meanwhile, House Democrats are continuing to fight to make life better for the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: Shades on emoji. He's not wrong, right? They basically had to torpedo this vote because people are so upset about the SAVE Act not moving forward. They had to figure out a way to get it off the floor quickly.

You're nodding. Have you been following this as well?

FITZPATRICK: I mean it's chaos. It's a level of chaos and it shows a level of kind of lack of message discipline in which, you know, we're not seeing actual -- Congress do its actual job, but people are really frustrated.

CORNISH: But it's like the president wants this. I was reading a quote from Tim Burchett, a Republican, and he said, you know what? You guys are complaining about us being foils. We're in lock step with the White House, he said.

So, is this a way of Trump, who ran into a brick wall in the Senate over lunch, finding a way to get the SAVE Act back?

SCHILLING: I think the Senate's the real problem here. I mean this -- we have -- we are so far away from the 1980s where --

CORNISH: But is the answer is, he gets -- he gets a no there and so now it's like everyone in --

SCHILLING: Well, what can he do?

CORNISH: OK.

SCHILLING: At this point we have the SAVE Act, which has five provisions that have 80 to 85 percent support amongst the American people. If you can't get that through the Senate, what can you get through? I don't know, spending trillions more dollars?

CORNISH: Well, what you can't do then is talk about your affordability bill. You can't pass a defense bill. You can't do -- how -- like, there's so much stuff that you can't do because you're busy fighting for this particular thing.

SEAWRIGHT: The least productive Congress in the history of this country. And the only thing --

SCHILLING: Thank you, Democrats.

SEAWRIGHT: The only thing we do in politics is make the comparison. You think about when Democrats were in charge, the most productive Congress we've had in generations, including bipartisan legislation that actually helped the American people.

SCHILLING: Productive (INAUDIBLE).

SEAWRIGHT: That's why Donald Trump is going to be your biggest liability in November.

CORNISH: Hey, like press, there's no such thing as bad production. OK, Terry, that name of the game is producing, and that's why we're ending with you because., my man, I hear you have news in your group chat.

SCHILLING: Oh my gosh. Yes. So, my friends and I, my daughter just got engaged. She's 20. She's getting married next summer. And my friends all pointed out that I'm going to be the first in our friend group, most likely, to be a grandfather.

CORNISH: Correct.

SCHILLING: Which --

CORNISH: Might be the first in this table, Terry.

SEAWRIGHT: (INAUDIBLE). How old?

SCHILLING: I'm 39. I'll be 40 this month.

CORNISH: Love it.

SCHILLING: I am here for it. Look --

CORNISH: Drop the skin care for the chat.

SCHILLING: There's so much economic uncertainty right now. And like, what my daughter has figured out is like, you just find that one that you can be a partner with and you take on the world together and you'll figure it out.

[07:00:07]

And so, I'm very happy. Congratulations.

(CROSS TALK)

CORNISH: It's funny, we were talking about this on the podcast because in the world of youth, Christian college culture, there's ring by spring, which is to try and get married before you leave campus and go out into the wide world where you will become, and I quote, "a hinge widow."

Thank you all for being with me. These headlines are next.