Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

President on Conservative Podcasts Less; Reporters Denied Access to Xi Dinner; White House Rolls Out New TV Ad. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired September 25, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Brought up as like, look, the Latino men voted for Trump and immigration.

What happened under Biden was that people felt the system was unfair. That there were millions of people coming in, that there was an entire system through Latin America, you know, kind of funneling people from all over the world. And I think any reasonable person would say, that's not good. We don't like that. And they thought people were getting assistance that should be going to citizens and people who had been here for a long time. So, that's what's going on there.

Now you have the opposite, which is, you're seeing people who have absolutely no criminal record, who have been here for a long time, who have jobs, contribute taxes, and they -- and Latinos are looking at that and saying, why are these people living -- are terrified. Everyone has a story of someone that they know that has been taken up and kicked out.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: But that doesn't mean they're going to vote for Democrats.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It -- I tell you what, it -- I think it does, because it's not only that, it's that added to the fact that the economy is terrible, that, you know, your health care is hard to access, that your mortgage rates have gone up. You know, immigration, as a singular issue with Latinos, we've seen, it doesn't --

CORNISH: It doesn't move them. Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's always been a misunderstanding of the Latino community. The economy is the number one issue that they vote on.

CORNISH: So, there's some irony here that now it is an issue.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Now it is an issue but of --

CORNISH: Right, like basically Republicans took something --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Because added to this --

CORNISH: That the Latino community said, look, just because we're Latino does not mean we're on board. And now --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And these videos had a huge impact.

CORNISH: Now there's a real impact.

There's other people who are talking about the trend of Republicans trying to put a little distance between them. Here is Thomas Massie talking about it. Of course, he lost his primary, but he thinks this is the strategy at play.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Because they have to find some way to get away from this president. He's not out there campaigning for them. They don't want him in their districts. They've got to put space between them and him. And this is the price they're paying.

Look, I was the Republican who was speaking out for so long, and they were all, whatever Trump wants, they were all for it in their primaries. And now it's -- they're about to take a shellacking here in the general election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: I wanted to bring that up because he's right. In the primaries, you still have plenty of people in the MAGA corner of the party that base, that operate really strongly in the primaries, and they like this.

NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: Yes.

CORNISH: You know what I mean?

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: They are like, this is what we voted for. We're happy with the way it has moved. This is what needed to be done. And I've never understood how Republicans can reckon with that fact.

KING: Trying to pretend we know what's going to happen in the midterms, I think, is a mistake, in all honesty.

CORNISH: Yes.

KING: Like, we look at this, it's like, oh, the Republicans are going to get shellacked.

CORNISH: Well, that's why I'm asking. Like, shellacking is like, well --

KING: I think we all should just be careful and not make too many predictions. But those Republicans that are distancing themselves from President Trump seem to want to win elections, which if I were running for office, I would want to do so. So, we look at what these candidates do and we say, they are doing what they think is the rational move. The fact that this many Republicans think distancing themselves from a man who once could not be distanced from, is a rational move.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But you know why?

CORNISH: Well, OK. Hold on.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Independents. Independents.

CORNISH: Yes. Well --

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: Before you jump on my segment, Lulu.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Sorry.

CORNISH: That's what we're going to talk about.

Podcasters. Remember those? Some of them are tuning out the president. They're shifting gears. Maybe James Talarico is a better topic for their listeners. We'll see.

Later on CNN, there is actually a monster storm pounding the East Coast. It's on the way, and it's threatening to bring flooding, high winds, lots of rain. And we are tracking it all. So, stay with us this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:32]

CORNISH: So, for years, the president has been good at getting people to talk about him. And some of the people who helped build that attention machine, well, honestly, it seems like they're kind of getting tired of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY FRISELLA, HOST, "REAL AF WITH ANDY FRISELLA": Donald Trump, you've lost touch with your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) base. You've lost touch with reality of what people actually want to see.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW": I don't know about you, but I am sick of this (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I'm just -- I'm sick of it. Can't he just behave like a normal human? I mean, honestly. Like the president, I -- 3-D chess. Just shut up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, "The Wall Street Journal" did the Lord's work. They analyzed nearly 70,000 hours of political podcasts, and they found mentions of Trump on conservative shows specifically has fallen sharply since the 2024 election.

So, what is getting their attention now? The group chat is back. I'm going to put up that graph one more time, because it's always

interesting to see sort of what people are talking about. They follow their audience. So, what are we learning about their audience as a result?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: We're learning that the president, as we all knew, at some point, is going to leave office. And so, therefore, the party of the president is focusing on what comes next.

CORNISH: Was it always a grift?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, gosh. I think, for some. I mean, I think it's a -- it's a huge ecosystem. So, I think, for some.

CORNISH: Yes. But Meaning true believers, like were we --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean -- but I think, yes. I mean, it, you know, the podcast world is dominated -- we have three podcasters here -- dominated by the algorithm, right, like, because now they're all video podcasts and you're going out on social media, you're going on YouTube.

[06:40:10]

And you can see what people want to hear about. And you can see when your numbers go down. And I will tell you that, generally speaking, and this is anecdotal, but people are less interested in talking about the president, if only to say, cant he shut up?

CORNISH: OK. That's one thing. But here's another thing, talking about Democrats. I'm going to play for you a couple of podcasts right now that actually are, I guess, maybe approving or at least platforming a Democrat in Texas. You'll recognize them here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": You need to run for president. Yes. We need someone who's actually a good person.

BRETT COOPER, HOST, "THE BRETT COOPER SHOW": The entire internet is paying attention to this Democrat mega star.

ANDREW KOLVET, HOST, "THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW": All eyes are now on Talarico.

You know, we're going to play a lot of clips from Mr. Talarico.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: What I found interesting about this is they're not like all eyes are on Abdul El-Sayed. You know what I mean?

KING: Right.

CORNISH: Like, they're picking a guy who, in Texas --

BOB CUSACK, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER": Right.

CORNISH: And who Republicans are already struggling in Texas.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Why do they make him sound Hispanic though? I'm here for it, Talarico. Porque si (ph) Talarico.

CORNISH: I mean the other things were like, Todd -- did you just roll your tongue?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean what is that?

CORNISH: What are we doing? I -- it's just --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I don't know. (INAUDIBLE). I mean it's just such a weird thing to do. I don't understand why they made him like into a -- like into Hispanic.

CORNISH: OK, Bob, help us understand. Talarico, of all people --

CUSACK: Yes.

CORNISH: Maybe they just like a winner, but they see something there. And the truth is, one of the reasons why we paid attention to these podcasters is they came to be the proxy image of the alleged independent voter.

CUSACK: Right.

CORNISH: The swing voter who swings from the couch to actually showing up and voting. And they are now paying attention to this guy.

CUSACK: Well, I mean, listen, Trump has been on the scene for more than a decade.

CORNISH: Longer than that, yes.

CUSACK: He's about to be a lame duck. And listen -- and the people who listen to those conservative podcasts, that's the base. And I'm not so sure they're going to vote for Democrats. I'm sure some will. He's definitely -- Trump has definitely lost independents. Won them big time in 2024.

CORNISH: Yes. Are they the base, though?

CUSACK: But is the base going to show up?

CORNISH: Trump says they are, right? Trump will be like, Tucker Carlson, who listens to that guy?

CUSACK: A lot of people.

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: They were all talking against the war.

CUSACK: Yes. CORNISH: Like, I don't know who the base is anymore.

CUSACK: Well, the base doesn't like the war. And that's the problem. And especially with gas prices, which the summer's ending, but then we have the Houthis in the Red Sea now. That doesn't mean gas prices -- usually when the summer ends, OK, gas prices go down. We're seeing gas prices go up.

KING: I have a theory about this as a podcaster. I will speak also anecdotally. People are less interested in President Trump. And I'll tell you why. He is incoherent. He does not make any sense. He seems completely out of touch. And if you don't have anything to talk about other than like this 80-year-old man is speaking nonsense, your audience is going to be like, OK, whatever.

Talarico is interesting. In these podcasts you need -- I mean, not in news. I do something different. But these guys need a hero or a villain. Talarico is good on both, depending on how you feel about him or what you think about him.

CORNISH: But is -- he's supposed to be low t? He's not a real man.

KING: Sure, he's a villain. Right.

CORNISH: He thinks God is binary.

KING: Great. Great. Great.

CORNISH: Oh, oh, I see. OK.

KING: Talk about the -- he thinks God is non-binary.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But I think people -- I think Texas is interesting.

KING: It's interesting.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think also Texas is interesting.

CORNISH: OK.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think people feel like there's a narrative there. Will Texas flip? You know, who is this character that's come on to the scene? What does this mean for us? You know, he's a Christian. That feeds into our audience.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: He's a -- he's a person that we can legitimately talk about in a way that doesn't seem damaging to, you know, the psyche or the moral beliefs of the people who might follow. So, there's a whole bunch of reasons why Talarico is interesting.

CORNISH: No. You're right. And to your point about --

CUSACK: But then also, Trump created Talarico in some ways because John Cornyn, if he's in that race now, probably is winning that race. And he backed Paxton, who has massive ethical issues.

KING: Yes, you're not going to --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And not only massive, but boring as anything. Like, Talarico --

KING: Nobody wants to talk about that. It's terrible.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Like he had -- like you want to get -- Ken Paxton has not sat down for an interview at all this cycle. And I will tell you that even people who were wanting to book him are like, can he string a sentence together, you know, for more than ten minutes.

CORNISH: Right. Which Trump weirdly brought up himself, right? He would talk about --

KING: Yes, he's like --

CORNISH: He was like, still vote for this guy.

KING: He's a bad talker. He's an unattractive person. Probably a crook, but I endorsed him.

CORNISH: I was like -- I hadn't even got to that yet. I mean, with friends like these.

Next we're going to talk about what it means to be barred from the White House again. CNN, other networks, of course, MS Now and "Politico" not being able to cover the state dinner. And this happened just hours after a judge's ruling saying they can. So, what else is the White House going to do? What can they do legally? We're going to find out when we lawyer up.

And the Trump administration is rolling out a taxpayer funded pro- Trump, anti-communist TV ad. And this is the same week that Trump welcomes China's communist leader.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:49:16]

CORNISH: All right, so a federal judge this week actually restored CNN's access to the White House, right? They told the White House, hey, you have to give them back their credentials. But is the president actually honoring that ruling?

This is what happened when our reporters actually tried to cover an event, the arrivals at last night's state dinner to honor Chinese Leader Xi Jinping

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We walked up and we were told to talk to the press office (ph), specifically to talk to Stephen Chung, who is in charge of communications, and that the invitation or the pre-credentialed names were only for a photographer and an audio person. They did not want any editorial presence there from CNN specifically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, we have got Elliot here, CNN legal analyst, lawyering up.

[06:50:04]

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, ma'am.

CORNISH: So, we actually have lawyers, just so we're clear.

WILLIAMS: No doubt.

CORNISH: CNN is in the middle of a lawsuit against the administration.

WILLIAMS: This is not legal advice, let's be clear.

CORNISH: This is not legal advice.

But one thing I have tried to tell people when they ask me about this, like my family and stuff --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: Is that we are not the employees of the White House, right?

WILLIAMS: No.

CORNISH: It's not an employee relationship where it's like, you screwed up. HR has just ditched your pass. Go home.

WILLIAMS: Right.

CORNISH: What do the courts say about this relationship and how is it coming into play here?

WILLIAMS: Right. The courts say that the hard pass, the credential that enables reporters to be able to have these briefings at the White House is itself a form of property that carries a due process interest. That when the government takes it away, as the White House did, without any sort of process, without taking the same pass away from other people, they are violating someone's both First and Fifth Amendment rights. It's the deprivation of property and hurting someone's free speech rights. So, no, you're not an employee, but you have a right to speak there, provided that everybody is getting the same rights.

CORNISH: And then, of course, he has sued a variety of media outlets. He sued "The Des Moines Register" about polling ahead of 2024.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: He's suing the BBC, "The New York Times," "The Wall Street Journal."

One thing I want to ask, which is sort of editorial, so I'm going to bring it to you, Bob, which is like, the president's raison detre in so many ways has been the weaponization of the legal system against him. His main takeaway seems to be how to do that. Like, is the journey the destination? Is the point of all this to create a series of nuisance lawsuits that the media is tied up in, instead of the media being able to ask questions about who was at the dinner?

CUSACK: I think there's a lot -- a big difference between last year and this year. He certainly was leaning on the media last year. But now I see the media fighting back. I don't think this makes a lot of sense for him to pick this fight, because he's lost this legal fight before to CNN.

CORNISH: Yes, but don't you think it does -- like yesterday, the Republican on the set was like, he's definitely going to let them back in. You guys need to stop complaining. And that is not how this played out.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: And to me, if Trump is already getting criticism about how he is hosting the dinner, then, no, he doesn't want the media to be there for the arrivals to see who's been invited and report on it.

WILLIAMS: But, you know -- you know, I think something really -- and this is with Kristen Holmes' reporting, something really interesting happened at the dinner last night. He's -- the White House is in stronger legal footing with respect to the dinner than they were before, because of the fact they still allowed CNN and MS Now personnel to attend, just not the personnel that the networks wanted. Legally grayer. This seems like a job for a federal judge to sort out.

What the president has done, though, is chilled the reporting of major news outlets that might have been critical of him. So, OK, fine, he might have kind of tweaked what he did in a manner that sort of comported with the law a little bit more, but it made it much harder for the press.

CORNISH: Yes, but isn't that the point of the law?

WILLIAMS: That's the -- right, exactly.

CORNISH: That's -- like in a lot of ways, right?

WILLIAMS: And moreover, the point of our free speech protections are so that people can cover a president critically at times. But the idea -- you know, the job has been done. Certainly the press has not chilled in what they're doing, but they've certainly made it much harder for people to do their jobs as reporters.

CORNISH: What's the next step in this?

WILLIAMS: Oh, a federal judge, of course. I mean, it's going to --

CORNISH: And that will just be about whether or not the White House is following the directions.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes.

CORNISH: That's not even the case itself.

WILLIAMS: That's not even the case itself. Whether the temporary restraining order that kept the folks out will still be in place. And then there's still a lawsuit and then still maybe an appeal. So, this is not going anywhere.

Now, look, the White House can end this tomorrow, or, quite frankly, right now --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: By saying, ladies and gentlemen, sorry, we screwed up. We shouldn't have gone there.

CORNISH: I like -- (INAUDIBLE) the laughter .

WILLIAMS: I know. OK. OK, but like --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But we interrupt. But ladies and gentlemen, we are not doing this anymore.

CORNISH: Correct.

WILLIAMS: CNN, MS Now and "Politico," you are now welcome in the White House, and it's over. And, quite frankly, it can't proceed in a lawsuit because the lawsuit has gone away.

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: It's not -- it's moot at that point if they just -- one sentence from the president and it's done.

CORNISH: OK, but that's not where we are.

WILLIAMS: That's not where we are.

CORNISH: So, here we are towards the end of the program and I'm coming back to something we said at the start. Remember we were talking about the Chinese leader being here. About Trumps embrace of him despite all of this criticism from other Republicans about the embrace of a communist leader.

There is a new ad that Trump has rolled out, and it's rolled out by the White House. It is paid for, according to the ad, by the taxpayer. It just happens to be airing somehow during a visit by China's leader. Here's some of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: America will never be a communist country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's the toughest, most resilient person that I've ever met. And nothing was going to stop him from fighting so hard for the country he loves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, that song playing in the background is called "Love Me." The artist behind it went online to say, hey, I did not authorize this.

And the group chat is back.

We'll get to the artist in a moment. But the president is sitting on $400 million. Like, pay for your own ad.

KING: Yes. Lower those mortgage rates. Sorry, he's -- that's --

CORNISH: I love your commitment to the economy. I love your commitment to the economy.

[06:55:01]

WILLIAMS: Hey, gas is kind of expensive. I --

CORNISH: But here's the thing. They said it's a PSA. They're like, look, the president is simply saying what has been achieved in this term.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's propaganda. It's not a PSA. I mean, I think it's pretty clear. And I think it's also pretty clear that the taxpayer should not be paying for government propaganda. It's usually limited by, I think, law and also by just good sense.

But here we are. And -- but I just -- when you look at that, again, what you see is him saying, we're going to protect you from communists. And then, you know, he's --

KING: I'd like to think of Xi in the hotel room.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Allowing a communist leader here.

KING: Xi's at the Hilton watching the TV and then --

CORNISH: He is not at the Hilton. So, what are you talking about?

KING: And then the, we're not communist comes on and Xi is, oh.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's bad -- but it's bad messaging is what I'm saying.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

KING: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Leaving aside who is paying for this, it is simply bad messaging.

CUSACK: But if you had showed me that ad a year ago, I would have said, OK, well, Trump's numbers probably have to be around 50 percent. They're nowhere near 50 percent. It's all about him.

CORNISH: Meaning, running an ad like that, you need to be on a victory lap.

CUSACK: Exactly. And, honestly, 2025, he was on a victory lap. And big, beautiful bill passed. And then what happened? Epstein files. Then the war. The tariffs haven't ended. Now he's fighting with everybody. He's fighting with Republican lawmakers. He's fighting with Canada. He's fighting with the media. But the big thing is that the Iran War is just sucking all the oxygen out of the room.

CORNISH: All right. I want to turn to what's in your group chats, because its Friday and we need a break.

So, Elliot, tell me. Wait, I know what it is.

WILLIAMS: Well, I -- you know, I changed it at the last minute, so maybe you got the new one.

CORNISH: Is it the Lucas museum?

WILLIAMS: It's not the Lucas museum.

CORNISH: OK. Go on.

WILLIAMS: You think I am a one dimensional "Star Wars" being?

CORNISH: Yes, I think you only care about "Star Wars."

WILLIAMS: No. No.

CORNISH: OK. Go on.

WILLIAMS: But you know what I care about? I found out -- it turns out we found out what one of the 11 original herbs and spices in KFC was, and it's sadness, because --

CORNISH: This is not true.

WILLIAMS: No, KFC --

CORNISH: It's not true.

WILLIAMS: Is starting a new restaurant concept in Texas. They're rolling it out and trying new things, modifying the menu, trying boba or crunchy milkshakes with toppings on them and so on to try to branch out and get new people in.

I just -- it's a little heartbreaking because I think there's one way to eat KFC --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And it's in the back seat of an Oldsmobile station wagon.

CORNISH: So, you're very like, Colonel, don't change. WILLIAMS: I'm, Colonel, don't change.

CORNISH: Can I just throw it out there, though, that like Burger King has a whole campaign right now that's like, we redid our nuggets. And Wendy's we --

WILLIAMS: I don't --

CORNISH: I feel like there is a --

WILLIAMS: Yes. Diet flips.

CORNISH: Movement among marketing executives to say --

WILLIAMS: Diet -- yes.

CORNISH: This actually should taste like food. And we're showing you how we're doing that.

WILLIAMS: And consumers are changing. Diets are changing.

CORNISH: Oh, yes.

WILLIAMS: What people want is changing. But --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, like they have flaming hot nuggets now. And McDonald's, I was watching with my 13-year-old, and the entire ad was like, happy face, fire emoji. And she's like, that is so lame. Clearly someone your age wrote that out.

KING: Whoa.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, I know, it was so, so harsh.

CORNISH: Personal attack. Personal attack.

WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: OK.

WILLIAMS: I just -- I just don't want kombucha at my McDonald's. Why can't we have nice things?

CORNISH: OK. We got it. We'll get you one of those nice little Colonel ties. It's fine.

WILLLIAMS: OK.

CORNISH: OK.

KING: A bar in western Massachusetts --

CORNISH: You're doing the lesbian bar?

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: It's -- go ahead. Explain to the audience.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: This is complicated.

KING: OK. A bar in western Massachusetts had a mask mandate in the year of our Lord 2026. They decided one day a week they're going to lift the mask mandate. Their patrons turned on them and said --

CORNISH: Don't laugh.

KING: That they were committing genocide against people with long Covid.

WILLIAMS: What?

KING: And it's western Massachusetts, OK? So --

WILLIAMS: OK. Whatever.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But the article has to be read.

KING: The article -- "The Boston Globe."

GARCIA-NAVARRO: The point is, like, this is not something that can just be talked about.

KING: Subscribe to "The Boston Globe."

(CROSS TALK)

GARCIA-NAVARRO: The way that article is written is beautiful.

KING: Beautiful.

WILLIAMS: Awesome (ph).

CORNISH: But it also is reflective of the times we're in now, right?

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: Like it would have been heresy to tell these people, you -- no, OK. We believe in science. You wear the mask. This, this and that. And now, even on the left, it became a kind of joke of excess and ideology.

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: Tell me what's in your group chat.

CUSACK: Oh, I had BJ Robinson. He's on my fantasy football team. So, I was doing a little trash talking last night.

CORNISH: Nice.

CUSACK: That -- it's a little juvenile, but, you know, you need that. That's an escape.

CORNISH: What is your trash talking?

CUSACK: Well, you know, just saying, I'm going to win that bet. I'm going to win the league. I'm going to be champion. That kind of thing.

CORNISH: Did you just say I'm going to win that bet?

CUSACK: Oh yes. We have side bets as well.

CORNISH: Got it.

WILLIAMS: My WR3 is going to outdo your (INAUDIBLE).

CUSACK: That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

WILLIAMS: Ha, that will learn you.

CORNISH: Athleticism.

OK, go.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: My group chat is that tomorrow I have an extraordinary interview with Sylvester Stallone.

CORNISH: One of the greats.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It is dropping in the morning. And I normally don't plug interviews. But I have to say, this one is amazing. He's 80 years old. He is in a reflective mood. He is coming out with a memoir. And --

CORNISH: And we should say, is in a TV show currently right now, "Tulsa King."

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Is in a TV show, "Tulsa King, absolutely.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But we did a lot of work of looking back and reflecting on things that he had never spoken about publicly before. How he got his incredible physique, the cost of that. How he suffered from anxiety for years.

CORNISH: Does he get political?

[07:00:00]

GARCIA-NAVARRO: We talk about his political impact and some of the regrets that he has about that. It really is --

CORNISH: Regrets. I've had a few.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: If you want to see an interview where you're going to see someone in a different way, this is the interview for you.

CORNISH: Love it. Love that.

OK, thank you guys so much. Thank you for being with us today.

CUSACK: Oh, yes. Thank you.

CORNISH: And thank you for being with us this week. You could be anywhere, and I'm glad you're here with us. I'm Audie Cornish, and the headlines are next.