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CNN This Morning
George W. Bush's Brother Snubs Paxton; Backlash Over GOP Ohio Ad; Trump's History of Talking about Men's Looks. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired October 22, 2026 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:34:16]
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: OK, does Ken Paxton have a Bush problem in Texas? I didn't write that. As he looks to secure every vote he can in a tight race, he seems to have lost the Bush dynasty along the way. The brother of President George W. Bush early voted in Texas this week for Democrat James Talarico, and then he wrote about it on social media, quote, "my vote was motivated by two things, deep concern about Ken Paxton's record and genuine admiration for the character and principles I see in James Talarico.
Now, George W. Bush's daughter, Barbara, donated $2,500 to a pro- Talarico super PAC, according to campaign finance records. Meantime, the former president seems to be helping out about every other Republican running for Senate. He hosted a fundraiser for GOP Senate candidates with John Cornyn last month, and Ken Paxton wasn't invited.
[06:35:07]
So, we're bringing in a pro to the group chat. Mark McKinnon, former adviser to George W. Bush.
We've talked in the past about what the Bush folks are doing in Texas. But here's the thing. I kind of thought you all were pushed out of the Republican Party. Like, is there a Republican voter left in Trump's MAGA party that cares how shrubs (ph) are voting?
MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH AND JOHN MCCAIN: Not MAGA voters, but there's a lot of other Republicans in Texas and are --
CORNISH: Are there? Still?
MCKINNON: Sure there are.
CORNISH: OK.
MCKINNON: I mean, MAGA's at 30 percent, but there's 60 percent of Republican -- people who identify as Republicans in Texas. So, there's 30 percent of Republicans still there who consider themselves Bush Republicans.
CORNISH: But are they up for grabs? MCKINNON: Sure.
CORNISH: Or were they really just still going to vote the team?
MCKINNON: A hundred percent they are, particularly in this election. Ken Paxton doesn't just have a Bush problem. He has an everyone problem.
CORNISH: OK.
MCKINNON: This is -- I've seen bad candidates and I've seen corrupt candidates. I've never seen a bad, corrupt candidate like this in my life. And I'll tell you, I talked to -- there's not a single Bush Republican in Texas that I've talked to that's going to vote for Ken Paxton. Some of them will stay home, but a lot of them will vote for Ken Paxton.
Here's another thing I'll say. The Bush family is very discreet about this kind of thing.
CORNISH: Well, not so discreet. We've known about it every step of the way this time around.
MCKINNON: Well, that's what I'm saying.
CORNISH: OK.
MCKINNON: And that's a big tell because I guarantee you that George Bush's brother and George Bush's daughter would not have done this without running it by the president first. So, the president could have said, go ahead but keep quiet about it --
CORNISH: Yes.
MCKINNON: Because when it goes public --
CORNISH: And did not.
MCKINNON: Yes. So --
CORNISH: Yes. It -- Talarico actually had said temper (ph) --
MCKINNON: So, there's a wink -- there's a wink and a nod here. Yes.
CORNISH: He was able to post a list of Republicans endorsing him, 20 plus people. Will -- I mean, it's a -- it's a lot of state Republican names. But he was actually -- you can go out and campaign on that.
MCKINNON: Well, there's a story today that said the former executive director of the Republican Party in Texas just came out against Paxton as well.
CORNISH: OK.
CORBIN TRENT, FORMER REP. OCASIO-CORTEZ COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Wow, that's a big -- I mean, they're starting to pile up. You know, the interesting thing is, if he manages to win this, Texas is going to have some of the most unlikable senators, U.S. senators, in the history. I mean you've already got one in Ted Cruz, which is known to be unlikable.
CORNISH: All right, Corbin, you're not adding to this conversation.
TRENT: They will show you that --
CORNISH: Meanwhile, Karl Rove has literally come out the -- for the, you know, the guy running for railroad commissioner. Like, is there a Republican that Bush era Republicans like right now? What is going on?
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, let's talk about Governor Greg Abbott.
CORNISH: Oh, interesting. Say more.
DUBKE: Yes. Well, I --
CORNISH: Is he doing any better? Honestly. I thought that race was close as well.
DUBKE: That race is close. And I think part of -- part of the reason that it's close for Abbott is you've got all of this money that's pouring into Texas.
Now, here's the -- here's the other side of this whole conversation. If Republicans do pull out a victory in the Senate and the governor's race and hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent by Democrats trying to push this across the finish line --
CORNISH: Yes.
DUBKE: And they don't win in Texas, any of these races, I think -- I think, again, where Democrat dollars go to die, you -- you're going to see a lot more of these candidates in other ruby red states might lose.
CORNISH: Go ahead, Mark --
MCKINNON: Yes.
CORNISH: Because remember, Elon Musk just poured a bunch of money into the state as well. So --
DUBKE: He -- Elon Musk is a Texas resident now. That's part of it.
MCKINNON: Here's the problem, Mike, Republicans have spent $150 million on TV for Ken Paxton.
DUBKE: I know.
MCKINNON: They shouldn't have had to spend a dime.
DUBKE: Exactly right. John Cornyn would have --
MCKINNON: John Cornyn would have walked into that.
DUBKE: Yes.
MCKINNON: When I did the -- when I did the media for the whole country for President Bush, I -- when we got to $100 million, I went to Karl Rove and said, Karl, I can't spend all of this for the whole country.
DUBKE: Right.
MCKINNON: Now they're spending $150 million.
CORNISH: It's a different time. It's a different time.
MCKINNON: It was a different time.
CORNISH: We're now in the era of a billion dollar campaign.
MCKINNON: But the point -- the point, Audie, is that they shouldn't have had to spend a dime in Texas.
CORNISH: Well --
MCKINNON: John Cornyn would have walked into that Senate seat. So, it's a cell phone.
TRENT: Trump's having to go to Kansas.
DUBKE: It is a cell phone. It is --
TRENT: Oh, he's going to Alaska. Trump's going -- his schedule is showing us how scared the Republican Party is.
DUBKE: I --
CORNISH: Well, there's a code that you all use sometimes when you're talking with me where you say "candidate quality," which -- and I think it comes into play here the same way right now Democrats are wrestling with, was it an overreach to have a candidate like Abdul El- Sayed? I think there are some MAGA Republicans that were like, was this an overreach? Was this the guy at all costs?
MCKINNON: And that's the point about that Texas senate race. James Talarico is an exceptional candidate. Paxton is one of the worst candidates ever. And the parallels of the 2018 race with Ted Cruz and Beto O'Rourke, Cruz was not nearly as bad as Talarico.
CORNISH: Yes.
MCKINNON: I mean, as Paxton.
DUBKE: Paxton.
MCKINNON: And Talarico's better than Beto was.
CORNISH: OK, next on CNN --
MCKINNON: And that was a two-and-a-half-point margin.
CORNISH: We're going to talk -- I want you to stay. We're having Mark stay, right, because the guy knows a thing or two about ads. And there is this ad in Ohio people are talking. Vivek Ramaswamy's attack ad on Amy Acton. It's sounding like it's backfiring, but there is a Republican who is defending it. We'll have more on that.
And what's behind the president's obsession with one candidate's behind?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And very often I started examining his body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And here's the deal, Mr. President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:44:04]
CORNISH: So, we're going to talk about Vice President J.D. Vance right now. He's got some advice for Republicans who are criticizing a controversial ad that is running in the Ohio governor's race. And his advice is this, stop whining.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, ill be honest with you, whether the ad was appropriate or not is not really my concern.
But I have to admit that I'm a little bit disgusted when I see Republicans across the country who are whining more about that advertisement than they are about what the congressional Democrats and other Democrats want to do to the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: All right, so, just so you know, the ad features the mother of the Democratic opponent, Amy Acton. And in the ad, this mother is urging Ohioans not to vote for her daughter.
Now, to be clear, Acton has been actually estranged from this person since 1978. She and her brother actually had to be removed from their mother's custody after their stepfather was charged with sexually abusing and raping Acton when she was just 12.
[06:45:04]
The group chat is back.
I'm going to talk for a bit about this because I have a number of people at this table who have looked at ads and decided to run them, or figured out what those ads should say. And I have to admit, I am confused about this one, taking somebody who the state didn't believe and having them be the character witness.
MCKINNON: The credible witness. Supposed to be the credible witness.
CORNISH: Yes. So, tell me what you thought when you saw this.
MCKINNON: Well, I'll tell you who should have been whining about this is the campaign manager and the candidate who, when the ad guy came to them presumably with this idea, and they should have said, you're fired.
TRENT: Yes.
MCKINNON: I --
CORNISH: They didn't say that. They said, we're going to pay you money and we want to run that.
MCKINNON: Yes, go find this woman that left her daughter when she was 12 years old with a man accused and prosecuted for raping her.
TRENT: For years.
MCKINNON: For years. Yes. And let's reraise this trauma.
CORNISH: But they did do something interesting. The ad doesn't say all that. The ad says, my daughter is a fabulous, my daughter doesn't tell the truth. The ad does not go into the history that you're talking about.
MCKINNON: No, but now it has --
CORNISH: If you see an ad that just says my daughter is a liar (ph) --
MCKINNON: Talk about a backfire. Now it's made her a sympathetic character. It raises a story that nobody knew about that, to her credit, she hasn't talked much about trying to play the victim card.
TRENT: I was thinking the exact same thing. She is -- she (INAUDIBLE) herself.
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: But are you --
CORNISH: Yes.
CHAMPION: Are you saying that -- you're saying the philosophy, you're wondering why they thought the philosophy of not adding that part of the story could --
CORNISH: No, I understood it. Right.
CHAMPION: Yes. I don't --
CORNISH: All you need is someone saying, I'm her mom and she's a liar. CHAMPION: And she's a liar. And he thought that would work, which is,
to me, first of all, this whole -- the whole story is really sad. And every time we talk about it, just bringing up the details, it really does -- it trigger me and also break my heart to see that she has to retell the story. And to your point, she is a sympathetic figure. But no one should ever have to relive that trauma. And I don't think -- I think we're discussing it from such a high like perspective. Like, I really, truly feel like this is the most disappointing it's been.
CORNISH: Well, the discussion is meaning something. Here is Amy Acton on the campaign trail. Just to give you a sense of some of the response.
CHAMPION: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY ACTON (D), OHIO GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: You know, I'd hoped he wouldn't sink this low, but, of course he did. I had a childhood of extreme physical abuse and sexual abuse. As a kid, my brother and I, a frequent fliers in children's services, finally removed after a grand jury saw evidence that was so -- it was so, so shocking that we were removed from my mother's custody at the age of 12.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, talking about it being trauma. And then a supporter actually was talking to her on the campaign trail as a result. So, I just want to give you an example of how she speaks about it publicly and then how people are responding to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart goes out to you.
AMY ACTON (D), OHIO GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, thank you
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- can I give you a hug?
ACTON: Oh, yes, you can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I heard it yesterday, that's all I wanted to do was cry and hug you and tell you, it would be OK.
ACTON: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DUBKE: Here is why this is not whining and where I disagree with the vice president on this. Just from a political standpoint, it has -- this ad has now removed any policy conversation away from the debate for the next 12 days in this gubernatorial race. This next 12 days is going to be only about this ad and the backlash on the ad or the -- or the veracity of the ad, whatever that may be. There is no policy debate that is going to be going on. So, from a -- from a political standpoint, I can whine about this
saying, this is just bad politics, this is bad campaigning, and this is putting this situation -- you're basically creating a situation in which you cannot emerge because you made a dumb decision.
CORNISH: Well, but if the whole point is Trump is on the ballot, get Trump out there, right?
DUBKE: Yes.
CORNISH: We're talking about bringing -- national race. You want the MAGA supporters who are going to embrace you no matter what, right? And here's a mix of those supporters responding to the ad. I just want you to hear it, because it was not condemnation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would never say that about one of my children. I don't think it reflects well on Amy Acton, but I also don't think it reflects well on her mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why don't we care about character and integrity anymore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything truthful is actually good. I can't believe she's even close to Vivek in the running.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like some of the smear ads on either side. I think both could like -- neither one have said what they're really going to do for the state of Ohio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRENT: I mean, I think what you're going to hear is more and more people are going to hear the full story now.
MCKINNON: That's it. Yes.
TRENT: They're going to hear the context of this ad.
MCKINNON: They hadn't heard the full story. And now they will.
TRENT: I mean you --
MCKINNON: Exactly. This is what I did all my life professionally. I've seen a lot of really bad ads. I've made a lot of really bad ads. This is the worst ad in American history.
CORNISH: Really?
MCKINNON: I mean morally bad and corrupt.
CORNISH: Willie Horton (ph)? I mean, like, come on, dirty tricks. There was a whole era of this.
MCKINNON: The worst. But, I mean, I mean, the Willie Horton ad was -- at least it was effective. You know, it worked.
CORNISH: OK.
MCKINNON: This is the biggest strategic --
DUBKE: Well, effective and fairly true.
MCKINNON: Yes, that's right.
DUBKE: And played into an angst that the American public had at the time.
[06:50:01]
This ad does none of that.
TRENT: No.
MCKINNON: The biggest strategic misfire I've ever seen in advertising.
TRENT: Attacking John Kerry for, you know, the Swiftboat ads. I mean there's like -- there's, you know, ads that were crappy, right? They were -- but they did the job for their politics, right?
DUBKE: We might not like them, but they drove a message --
TRENT: Right.
DUBKE: That was an important message to drive about, you know, thrice and flip flopping and all of that.
TRENT: Yes.
DUBKE: So, there was -- there's reason behind those ads.
CHAMPION: Yes.
CORNISH: I think it's interesting --
DUBKE: This doesn't help them.
CORNISH: That J.D. Vance is defending, because he's also the person who created the stories about immigrants eating pets.
CHAMPION: Yes. Yes.
CORNISH: And, at the time, he was very, like, hey, you got to do what you got to do.
TRENT: He's also gathering --
CHAMPION: Well, what is he saying about Talarico? He's the guy talking about he has a strange fixation with trans kids. You're like, what are you saying?
TRENT: And J.D. Vance is supposed to understand a little bit, at least from the movie I watched, about what it's like to have a hard life with your mother sometimes.
CHAMPION: I didn't watch it.
CORNISH: Are you saying you watched "Hillbilly Elegy"?
TRENT: I mean, I'm a hillbilly.
CHAMPION: I did not watch it.
CORNISH: I read the book, thank you very much.
TRENT: Well, there you go.
CHAMPION: Yes. Yes. Yes.
TRENT: We all do it differently.
CORNISH: OK, let's talk about --
DUBKE: That's an elitist --
CORNISH: One --
CHAMPION: Yes, she did.
CORNISH: I --
DUBKE: I read the book.
CHAMPION: Yes.
DUBKE: You just watched the movie.
CORNISH: I read the memoir --
DUBKE: All right, Audie. Uh-huh.
CORNISH: of the Yale-educated vice president of the United States.
TRENT: Well, I'm the GED educated hillbilly version.
CORNISH: It's part of the job, OK. Reading --
CHAMPION: Reading is part of the job.
DUBKE: And I'm America. I've done neither. Have you read the book?
CORNISH: Open the schools. Open the schools. All right, reading is fundamental.
Let me talk about something extremely serious.
DUBKE: The reading rainbow.
CORNISH: That's why you've got to stop this conversation for this very serious thing. Donald Trump, obviously, rallies across the country. He's doing what
needs to be done. And yet there's this thing that keeps coming up and like coming up enough that people are starting to notice. And it's him talking about the Ohio senator, Jon Husted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I looked at his ass. And then I looked at his legs. And it might -- I said, his ass is -- it's like -- it's like a pile of muscle.
I don't do this with men very often. I started examining his body.
I looked and I watched up and down. I looked at his ass and I looked at the whole --
And I examined his ass. I never did that with -- no, I never did that with a man before. I examined his ass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Group chat.
TRENT: Well, here -- you know, this is one place where I feel --
CORNISH: This is something that would be in a group chat. But, yes, go on.
TRENT: The media is failing us so miserably here.
CORNISH: Yes.
TRENT: Is because I hear this soundbite over and over and over, and yet I have not seen an image side by side of this man's ass.
CORNISH: We're going to --
TRENT: Where -- I want to see it. What is this --
CHAMPION: Do you really?
TRENT: Yes.
CORNISH: Would you put that in an ad?
TRENT: I want to see an ass that good that the president's closing the whole campaign on it.
DUBKE: They only use faces.
CORNISH: Like a Bruce Springsteen album cover.
TRENT: Yes.
CORNISH: Just like, Husted, paid for by --
MCKINNON: I would have to put it in an ad because everybody --
DUBKE: Wow, that's a poll (ph). That is a poll (ph). That is a fantastic poll (ph).
TRENT: That's it.
MCKINNON: I think I would have to put it in an ad because now everybody's seen it. This is the sort of story that everybody's talking about. And, by the way, check Truth Social, just make sure he doesn't have a Grinder account.
CORNISH: Oh. Hey,
CHAMPION: Oh, boy.
CORNISH: J.D. Vance --
TRENT: You're hip.
CORNISH: Jumping in Ohio yesterday. I mean, obviously, this has come up enough for Vance to have to say this when he took the stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What could I possibly say about Jon Husted that Donald J. Trump has not already said? Don't worry, I'm not -- I'm not talking about Jon Husted's ass. I'm not talking about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: TMZ --
CHAMPION: That's -- that (INAUDIBLE). That didn't hit (ph).
MCKINNON: Didn't hit.
CORNISH: Oh, it didn't.
CHAMPION: That didn't land. No, that didn't land.
MCKINNON: He can't do it. He can't do it.
CHAMPION: He doesn't have it. It didn't land.
MCKINNON: He cannot do it.
CORNISH: What are we saying at the table here? We're saying that --
CHAMPION: Well, he was trying to pick up on the joke, but he -- it just fell flat. And I think -- I think Trump's, you know, his obsession with said ass is about, he is trying to be charming and people are laughing. And it's -- I mean, and whether they think it's funny or not, he really is killing it with his joke. And that's why he keeps --
CORNISH: And disarming. Like --
CHAMPION: Exactly.
MCKINNON: And it is -- and it is funny.
CORNISH: Here's an example of him talking about Ken Paxton. Just the flip side of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ken Paxton, you might not like the way he dresses. And I say this, it's so insulting to him, but I might as well say it. You might not like the way he looks. You might not love his look. You might not love his television interviews.
He may not dress right. He may not talk exactly perfectly. And he may not be the best-looking guy I've ever seen.
Ken Paxton was at my side more than anybody. And I have to always remember that because he can be a pain in the ass sometimes, I'll be honest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DUBKE: So, I -- last week I went to a Trump rally. And these, these -- the setups of these Trump rallies are basically the same in every state that he goes to.
CORNISH: Yes.
DUBKE: They last about an hour and a half. It's almost like a, I don't want to say it's like a comedy show --
CORNISH: Not almost but does (ph), yes.
DUBKE: But they bring -- they bring people up on stage. The president flies in with cabinet officials that he praises, he talks about. And then he'll go off script. And as his communications director, when we were doing rallies in the early Trump 1.0, I would always have the script in my pocket and then mark where he goes off. He is an entertainer. He reads the room. And why --
CORNISH: And in Trump two they call it the weave, right? It was like this --
DUBKE: Well, and this is why you've got three clips, four clips of him saying the same thing over and over again because if the line lands, he's going to use it over and over and over again because he's getting the response from the audience.
[06:55:01]
He plays with the people.
TRENT: But it is coming from somewhere. I mean he's not thrilled with Paxton's look. That's clear. DUBKE: That is -- that is true.
TRENT: I mean, I think that that is embedded in there. He doesn't like him on TV. He doesn't like the suits he wears. I mean, you know, and it is -- it is funny.
DUBKE: And it --
TRENT: But the man is genuine here.
CORNISH: And also the look matters. That's what we've learned more than anything, the look matters when you look at certain cabinet members, male and female, and you see the president's view of this person as looking the part.
Here he is talking about handsome men. Is it more men? Tell me. What? OK, let's do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Three very handsome men. Beautiful. I mean, like, they're like movie stars. These guys were central casting. Big, beautiful looking guys.
But a very powerful, strong man. He's been in the steel business for many years. His father started it. And he said, sir, I want to kiss you.
So, I saw him as a young man my first time. You were young and handsome. Now you're older and handsome.
But Arnold Palmer was all man. When he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said, oh my God, that's unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, it's just jokes.
CHAMPION: Is it?
CORNISH: I don't know, looks matter.
CHAMPION: OK.
CORNISH: Americans are very like, oh, I want to have a beer with this person.
CHAMPION: I think -- yes, I think -- for sure.
CORNISH: Oh, this person's two inches taller. Like we care about looks.
(CROSS TALK)
CHAMPION: Really? TRENT: He doesn't think about people's economic conditions. He's said
that out loud, ah, it doesn't really occur to me, people's economic problems. I don't really think about that.
But, boy, oh, boy, he does think about people's looks a lot. I mean, it's one of the things that he -- you know, he talked about his daughter and how good looking she was.
CORNISH: Yes. So, you're still waiting for, I feel your pain?
TRENT: Yes. Yes. He just feels your --
MCKINNON: And he's obsessed with masculinity.
TRENT: Yes, absolutely.
MCKINNON: And part of this I think too is his own health is starting to fade.
CHAMPION: That's (INAUDIBLE).
TRENT: Yes, absolutely.
MCKINNON: And his own looks are starting to fade. So, he's projecting --
CORNISH: Starting?
TRENT: Yes, he's looking at that view. That view.
CHAMPION: Have begun.
CORNISH: OK. We're going to talk about group chats because I have extra guests here today. Love to have you guys. I'm starting with you, Corbin. What's in your group chat?
TRENT: You know, it's the third party question. I was actually asking -- I was talking about that in the green room, is America -- because the funny thing about the polling you see, favorability, is that Donald Trump is like, you know, rock bottom. And then you see the Republican Party a little bit above that. And then a little bit above that is the Democratic Party.
CORNISH: Not a lot.
DUBKE: No.
TRENT: What you don't have --
DUBKE: Very little.
TRENT: Very -- yes, just a little.
DUBKE: Right.
TRENT: So, you've got people that are sort of disgusted with their state of the political discourse in this country. They're seeing ads like Vivek Ramaswamy's. You know, they're just done with it. And I wonder, are we at a point now where you could see a third party, you're seeing independents in Nebraska, and, you know, there's places where independents are making inroads.
CORNISH: You know who's happy to hear that? Mr. No Labels over here.
MCKINNON: Yes.
CORNISH: Yes. This is --
TRENT: Right.
(CROSS TALK) CORNISH: Are you like, this is our time? Yes. The problem is, whenever I look at the Senate debate stages, there's always that like one extra person. And I'm just like, I'm not -- I'm seeing this --
MCKINNON: But you're right, more people identify as independents than Democrats or Republicans.
CORNISH: But do they vote that way?
DUBKE: Let me -- let me -- let me be the --
MCKINNON: If they have an opportunity, I think they will.
DUBKE: Let me be the cynic here. And we talked about this. Yes, that more people are identifying as independent. The Democratic Party brand sucks. The Republican Party brand sucks for the most part. But we are still a country of Coke and Pepsi.
TRENT: Yes.
DUBKE: And try as you might, RC Cola is never going to make it to the end of the supermarket aisle.
CORNISH: Oh, my God.
DUBKE: They just aren't going to do it. And that's part of the problem.
CORNISH: What about Celsius? Are there other options?
DUBKE: No. I mean you're going to have to go with --
MCKINNON: They never get offered Mountain Dew.
CORNISH: Yes, they never get offered Mountain Dew.
CHAMPION: They never get the offer. And that's what he's saying. They get the right Mountain Dew. If you get this right combination with the great ingredients --
CORNISH: OK, I'm not getting any money out of this sponsorship. OK. So, tell me what's in your group chat. DUBKE: I think you're going to go Dr. Pepper, not Mountain Dew, but whatever.
CHAMPION: My group chat is, great -- you group chat is great. Mine is WNBA finals. Atlanta Dream playing the Golden State Valkyries.
CORNISH: Yay.
CHAMPION: Atlanta Dream are up two to one. And I will tell you this, they are more than likely going to win it all. Angel Reese has incredible, incredible energy and she is carrying that team. Everyone is great in their own right, but it will be the first time in their franchise history that they win this championship.
CORNISH: Yes.
CHAMPION: And it is --
CORNISH: And then to see a player also mature into there professional status.
CHAMPION: In real time. In real time. But you guys remember her from when she was at LSU. They had Kim Mulkey there courtside. It was a really beautiful, special moment. And the entire State Farm Arena was sold out. When did I think we'd get to see women's sports get to this moment where people are clamoring to watch women play basketball. And it is such a good time for us.
CORNISH: Sold out. Love it. Love it. OK. Last word to you, Mike.
DUBKE: All right. Let's stay on sports.
CORNISH: OK.
DUBKE: World Series starts tomorrow.
CORNISH: OK.
CHAMPION: Yes.
DUBKE: And we are finally going to have two cities, very excited, that have never won before. The Brewers and the Rays are facing off. They have never been World Series champions. We're going to --
CHAMPION: Nice.
CORNISH: Have they been like close and then not close here or --
DUBKE: You know what? It doesn't matter. We're going to have a new champion. And this is where it goes for me. And I'll be quick about this. This, you know, hopefully this translates to football. And we get maybe the Bills. I don't know. Or the Vikings fans get to bring a championship home.
CHAMPION: New champions all around.
DUBKE: This is a new champion 2026.
CHAMPION: Yes.
TRENT: We'll talk in the break (ph).
DUBKE: I'm trying.
CORNISH: Last word to our guest. Tell me.
MCKINNON: "East of Eden."
CORNISH: Oh, yes.
MCKINNON: "East of Eden."
CHAMPION: Oh.
MCKINNON: John Steinbeck. I thought I'd read it as a young -- I read it about a year ago. It's like the best book I've ever read.
CORNISH: Florence Pugh, incredible.
[07:00:00]
MCKINNON: And now they just made a TV series. And the TV series is incredible. And Florence Pugh is one of the greatest actresses I've ever seen.
CORNISH: And also about economic struggle, right? Like, also --
MCKINNON: Economic struggle and the choice -- and the -- and the focus on free will and free choice. It's fantastic.
CORNISH: You guys, thank you so much for being here.
CHAMPION: Thanks for having us.
CORNISH: And I know you guys could choose a lot of places to be. And I'm glad you choose to be with us. Thank you for waking up with us. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" is next.
