Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Landmark Deal in Middle East Causes Controversy; The Death of Dan Wheldon
Aired October 17, 2011 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: It's the deal dividing Israel -- one soldier for 1,000 Palestinian prisoners. Young activists on each side of that conflict tell me whether they think it will help bring peace.
Live from London, I'm Becky Anderson.
Also tonight, as the racing world mourns the death of a star, a former champion tells us why organizers need to look again at who's allowed on the track.
And outrage is spreading over video that shows a little girl run down in China then ignored by passersby. But before you judge, hear what one psychologist tells me about the bystander effect.
Well, two sworn enemies are just hours away from a landmark deal that will eventually see more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners walk free in exchange for one man who's become a sort of adopted son of all of Israel. The final preparations are now underway for the swap to begin on Tuesday, with Palestinian prisoners driven out of Israeli jails and readied for release.
Now, if all goes to plan, the soldier at the center of this deal, Gilad Shalit, will be returned to Israel as early as Tuesday. Shalit was 19 years old when he was captured by Palestinians five years ago. Since then, his detention has become a focal point in the rift between Israel and its Palestinian neighbors.
But even as the clock ticks down to this historic deal, some in Israel are hoping to stop it. Today, people who lost family members in attacks by these Palestinian prisoners brought their case to the Israeli police, pleading for them to be kept in prison.
Well, we are covering both sides of what is an emotionally charged story for you.
Matthew Chance is in Gaza, where many of the Palestinian prisoners are from.
And Fred Pleitgen is in Gilad Shalit's hometown in Israel.
We're going to start with Matthew in just a moment.
We begin, though, with Fred, who's been watching preparation for Shalit's homecoming all day -- Fred.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Becky.
I'm here in Mitzpl Hila.
People are certainly very happy. They say they're anxiously awaiting the return of Gilad Shalit. If you look around the town, you can see that people are decorating trees around the family'/s home. They're also putting up signs saying "welcome home, Gilad," of course, in anticipation of him coming very soon.
We believe that that will probably be some time in the afternoon hours of tomorrow. If, indeed, he is released tomorrow morning by Hamas. He will go through some checks at a military base in between and then will be flown here to his hometown.
I want you to take a look now at the preparations going on here and the anxiety that people are feeling as they think Gilad Shalit will be coming home soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PLEITGEN: This is the house of the Shalit family in the Northern Israeli village of Mitzpe Hila. And already, a lot of people are gathering here, a lot of people, of course, in anticipation of the return of Gilad Shalit. A lot of his friends are here, supporters, people from this village who have come here.
And you can see, they've been decorating the trees. They've been putting up signs saying, "Welcome home, Gilad," of course, in anticipation of what appears to be his impending return.
Now, people that we've been talking to say they've been fighting for this for such a long time and now they're absolutely enthusiastic about Gilad Shalit's impending return.
SHIMSHON LIBMAN, HEAD OF SHALIT CAMPAIGN: For me, it's like to get the dream that I -- I had for more than five years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the people in Israel are very excited and expecting for this moment. After five years, every -- everything is just really exciting.
PLEITGEN: Now, of course, the release of Gilad Shalit is not only going to be front page news here in Israel. Media organizations from around the world are going to be covering it. And that's why there's already a lot of infrastructure being put in place here.
But keep in mind that at least technologically, this isn't a done deal yet. People here were still able to file objections to some of the pardons of the first batch of Palestinian prisoners that are due to be released.
Now, on Monday, Noam Shalit, Gilad Shalit's father, went into the high court in Israel to argue for putting the deal in place. However, in front of the courtroom, there were about 25 people, protesters, who said that the deal should not go through because they feel that the price Israel is paying is simply too high.
One of the things that's absolutely clear is that when Gilad Shalit comes home, he is going to be a man in need of psychological counseling, after more than five years in the custody of Hamas.
We spoke to a man who himself was a prisoner of war in the 1973 Yom Kippur War and is now a psychologist. And he says Gilad Shalit must remain out of the public.
DR. DAVID SENESH, PSYCHOLOGIST: He is really in the center of public attention. And I think in order to peacefully connect with yourself, you have to be given time and the space to do so. And I think the public is too involved. And everybody feels like he is -- Gilad is his own son. And I think he should be given the time and the privacy to get on with his life.
PLEITGEN: Just to give you an idea about the general mood here in this country, according to opinion polls that were conducted before the Gilad Shalit deal, about 70 percent of Israelis seemed to approve of the measure. However, more than half also believe that in the long-term, it will hurt Israel's security.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PLEITGEN: Now, Becky, one of the interesting things is that regarding those polls, it did seem to be enough discontent here in this country for the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to explain himself to the families of victims of attacks against Israeli civilians in the past. He, in fact, wrote an open letter to these people today, saying that he understands their pain, he understands what they're going through and he understands that they're very angry, but that he does feel that in the end, under these circumstances, Israel had no other choice but to move ahead with this deal as it's going through now -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Fred Pleitgen is in Jerusalem for you this evening.
Fred, thank you for that.
Let's get to Matthew, who's standing by in Gaza -- and, Matthew, less anxiety, I believe, and more sort of rejoicing over this deal and hope that there could be more like it, of course, in the future.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, the contrast couldn't be starker from the scene that was being painted there by -- by Fred on the Israeli side of this, outside Gilad Shalit's house. Here in Gaza, the mood is very upbeat. Obviously, there's a lot of excitement. There's a lot of anticipation about the -- the prisoner release.
Remember, some of these people inside have been inside the Israeli jails for, you know, many, many decades. And they -- they're now being released into these areas where they're going to be reunited with their families, some of them, they haven't met their wives, their daughters, their other family members for -- for many, many years.
And so there's that kind of, you know, shiver of excitement that's running through society here in Gaza at the thought of these people coming back into their homes.
Also, the -- the -- the Islamic group, Hamas, the -- the group that runs Gaza is making as many points as it can in terms of popularity about this whole issue. And so it's doing what it can to sort of boost the natural level of excitement and anticipation as this prison swap gets underway.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE (voice-over): Just one Israeli captive for more than 1,000 Palestinians a prison exchange being celebrated on the streets of Gaza. "We want to liberate the rest of the prisoners, too," says this man, "by kidnapping more soldiers like Gilad Shalit."
It's not a message many Israelis, overwhelmingly in support of the exchange, will want to hear.
(on camera): But in Gaza, the capture of Gilad Shalit, depicted on murals like this one across the city, was always seen as a valuable opportunity. For Hamas, which runs Gaza, a prison swap is a way to bolster its popularity. For families parted by lengthy prison terms, it's a chance to be reunited.
(voice-over): Nahla Hamed (ph) was pregnant with her daughter, now 20, when her husband was arrested by Israel and sentenced to six life terms for murder. Only when Gilad Shalit was captured, she told me, did she believe her daughter would ever get to know her dad.
(on camera): Yes, so you knew that when -- when Hamas captured Gilad Shalit, you knew there was a chance that your husband would be released in a prison exchange?
(voice-over): The young Israeli soldier captured here five years ago has proved a valuable negotiating chip, indeed.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
CHANCE: What many Israeli -- Palestinians are talking about, though, on the streets of Gaza tonight is what will happen after Gileet -- Gilad Shalit is handed back. Many Palestinians hoping that it means the restrictions that's been placed on the Gaza Strip over the past several years by Israeli will be eased. But we'll see -- Becky.
ANDERSON: All right, Matthew Chance there in Gaza.
Both sides of the story for you.
As we heard from Frederik Pleitgen just earlier, the Israeli public overwhelmingly does support this deal. In a poll of 500 Israelis, nearly 80 percent said they are in favor of it. Less than 20 percent are not. But they are evenly divided on whether the release of the Palestinians is going to be dangerous for Israeli security.
Well, a short time ago, I spoke with an Israeli student, a Palestinian peace activist, about this deal.
I began by asking my Israeli guest, Nir Weintraub, whether he is in favor of it.
This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIR WEINTRAUB, ISRAELI STUDENT: Yes, I'm definitely in favor.
ANDERSON: Why?
WEINTRAUB: Well, no doubt, it's a difficult equation, but if you have to quantify it, then I would say that getting Gilad Shalit back and reinforcing the value that Israel puts on the lives of its soldiers trumps any possible reason why not to make the deal.
ANDERSON: In the same poll as these, Israelis were evenly divided on whether the release of these Palestinian prisoners was going to be dangerous for Israeli security. Some concern there.
Your thoughts.
ABU SARAH, PALESTINIAN PEACE ACTIVIST: Well, the Palestinians have been mainly concerned about who are the ones coming out. Contrary to the Israelis, not every Palestinian in Israel's prisons are coming out from prison. There are thousands that are still in. And there's a lot of dissatisfaction among some Palestinians that certain people are not coming out in this deal and are staying in prison, especially those who have families in Israeli prisons are not happy that their loved ones are not coming out.
But there aren't fears in the sense of Gilad Shalit being released. I think it's more about personal issues of having their family members being released from prison, as well.
ANDERSON: Nir?
WEINTRAUB: I'm -- I'm sure there are viable causes for unrest concerning the release of the prisoners. I know that there's empirical evidence that terrorists released some resort to terror once again. So I think there's valid concerns on the Israeli side.
ANDERSON: Nir, how does this prison swap move the peace process forward?
WEINTRAUB: I wish I knew. Like every other Israeli, I also yearn for peace, one that can ensure our way of life and our security. But peace is the end goal, I think, for every Israeli.
ANDERSON: , again, your response?
SARAH: It's important because prisoners release is a very important thing for Palestinians. One of the problems in Oslo was that many of the Palestinians were not released, even despite the peace process and -- and the agreements that were made at that time.
But another thing is the fact that Hamas and Israel were able to negotiate and come to an agreement. We hear over and over and over again that Israel cannot negotiate with Hamas. And this was proven not true, that if you want to negotiate with somebody, you negotiate with your enemy and it's proven that it can happen and it can work and they were able to come up with good results in this case.
ANDERSON: And does it surprise you, Nir, that that actually had been happening, that Israel was talking to Hamas?
WEINTRAUB: I wasn't surprised because they're the sovereign in Gaza. Of course, it's unfortunate that they are. If anybody read their platform, they know that they have some very shady ideas, to say the least.
But I wasn't surprised that they negotiated with them.
ANDERSON: For those who are watching this program tonight, , what is your message to them?
Many viewers who have been watching with frustration the stalling of this peace process over so many years?
SARAH: Well, I think it's time that the occupation end. It's time that the conflict end. As somebody -- my brother was killed in Israeli jails out of torture. So I know it doesn't mean for people to have family members in jail. And I'm so happy to see many are able to -- to leave the Israeli jails and for Gilad Shalit also to be back to his home. I know his family and I'm happy for them to have their son back.
So I think it's not focusing on the negatives that we keep talking about, but really look for a sign of hope. And this is a sign of hope. This is a good thing that is happening. And I'm really looking forward to the day that this could lead to the end of the occupation, the relationship between Palestine and Israel as neighbors and not as enemies and not to have prisoners, Israeli prisoners in Palestinian prisons or Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons.
ANDERSON: Are you equally as optimistic, Nir?
WEINTRAUB: I'm very optimistic. I'm sure that at the end of the road, peace awaits. I'm not sure when and how, but I'm optimistic about the future.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ANDERSON: Our top story tonight, an historic prison swap deal between Israel and Hamas may be just hours away. And tonight, a possible sign that peace talks may follow. The U.S. State Department says the so-called Quartet of Middle East envoys will meet in Jerusalem next week. The envoys will talk separately with Israeli and Palestinian officials and try to lay the groundwork for a new round of peace talks. I'm Becky Anderson.
Don't go away. There's plenty more coming up on CONNECT THE WORLD, including a show of defiance as thousands of Yemeni women protest against their government.
Later, we hear tributes to racing drive, Dan Wheldon, killed in one of IndyCar's worst ever accidents.
And...
(singing)
ANDERSON: In 30 minutes, we meet the child prodigy who is now the world's highest selling classical artist. Haley Westenra explains why she's no diva despite her success.
(singing)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson.
It is 18 minutes past 9:00 in London.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN.
A look at other stories that we are following for you this hour.
And thousands of women in Yemen have taken to the streets of the capital, Sanaa, after the killing of a female protester over the weekend. Now, they marched outside the foreign ministry on Monday, calling for the U.N. to intervene to stop the crackdown on anti-government protests there. Medics say at least 12 people were killed and dozens were injured in raids by government troops around the capital on Sunday. Women say they will continue to oppose the regime despite the danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATIAF ALWAZIR, YEMENI ONLINE ACTIVIST: The women are not just only -- they're not only marching, but we're also part of many of the committees at the square, you know, whether it's the medical committee, the organization committee, the media committee. So you have women joining all of these different groups on the ground. And I think for many people, that is quite an interesting phenomenon given the conservative society that we live in in Yemen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the king of Jordan has appointed a well known international judge as new prime minister after dismissing the former premier and the entire cabinet. King Abdullah has instructed Awn Khasawneh to undertake reforms leading to new election laws and government accountability. Now, the judge is a deputy chief at the International Court of Justice and former adviser to the country's late King Hussein.
In Libya, forces fighting for the National Transitional Council say that they have taken Bani Walid after a six week surge. An NTC commander now says the city has been liberated. Forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi have either been captured or have fled.
Meanwhile, Britain's foreign secretary, William Hague, has visited Tripoli to reopen its embassy. He has pledged more than $60 million toward a Stability Fund
Stabilization Fund and to a political and economic reform in Libya.
France's Socialist Party has chosen Francois Hollande as their candidate for presidential elections. Now, he defeated Martine Aubry in Sunday's run-off, gaining more than 56 percent of the vote. Hollande has vowed to bring new vitality to the country if elected. Elections take place next April, but incumbent Nicolas Sarkozy's supporters are already attacking his new opponent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THIERRY ARNAUD, BFM-TV SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They're already conveying all sorts of messages to the effect that he is a flip- flopper, that he has no backbone, that he has no sense of responsibility, that he is your typical tax -- tax and spend liberal, if you like. He is going to -- for example, he promises that he's going to hire 60,000 new teachers if he wins.
He is having to do that in a country that is reeling under a $2.3 trillion debt?
Of course, the answer Francois Hollande has to that is, well, who built up the debt in the first place?
It's you, Nicolas Sarkozy.
So, as you see, we're in for a pretty interesting campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, a U.S. researcher stranded at the South Pole has been flown out after weeks of waiting. The 56 -year-old Renee-Nicole Douceur suffered a suspected stroke on August the 27th, but had to remain in Antarctica due to bad weather. She pleaded for an air rescue team, but was only removed on Monday, seven weeks after falling ill. She is now being treated in New Zealand.
Well, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN with me, Becky Anderson.
Still to come, as the motoring world pays its respects to Dan Wheldon, racing legend Jackie Stewart tells CNN how he thinks IndyCars could be made safer.
And in 20 minutes, we return to where the
Euro crisis began, Greece, as the fight against government cuts there gathers pace.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY KANAAN, #82 KV RACING TECHNOLOGY-LOTUS: I know this is a dangerous sport. I know we're exposed to that every day in the normal life, as well. But, you know, you don't think about it. And today we have to think about it. I lost one of my best friends, one of my greatest teammates and I don't know what to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the racing world is mourning the loss of the British driver, Dan Wheldon, who died in probably one of the most dreadful accidents ever seen in open wheel racing. The final race of the IndyCar season was supposed to be a celebration.
Wheldon was relaxed beforehand. But 11 laps in, disaster struck. Fifteen cars were involved in the carnage.
Such was the speed of the race, many drivers were unable to swerve out of the way. And Dan Wheldon's Number 77 car was propelled into a fence before bursting into flames. He was airlifted to hospital, where he was joined by his wife and young sons, but was sadly pronounced dead a short time later.
Well, I'm joined now by the "WORLD SPORT'S" Pedro Pinto -- what a shock.
I mean what a shock to all of us.
How is the motor world -- or motor sport world coping?
PEDRO PINTO, CNN "WORLD SPORT" ANCHOR: Well, I -- I think that shock is the right word to use, Becky, because even though everybody knows that - - that motor sport can be dangerous, every time there is an accident like this and there is a death -- this is the fourth death in the last 15 years in IndyCar and -- and everyone has been quick to pay tribute to a man who was not only a promising driver and a good one at that, but was also one of the most popular guys on the circuit.
And we heard Tony Kanaan just there, one of the drivers who knew him well, who raced with him. And Dario Franchitti, who's one of the more famous IndyCar drivers, also reacted to -- to his tragic death.
And this is what Dario had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARIO FRANCHITTI, WHELDON'S FORMER TEAMMATE: You know, we keep putting so much pressure on ourselves to -- to win races and championships. And it's what we love to do. And it's what we live for. And then, on days like today, it doesn't really matter. You know, we -- we lost -- I lost, we lost a good friend. And I think everybody in the IndyCar series considered Dan a friend. I mean you saw the -- the reaction. He's -- he's one of those special, special people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: For those not familiar with IndyCar racing, who was Dan Wheldon?
You knew him, didn't you?
I mean you (INAUDIBLE) meet him. PINTO: Yes, I had a chance to -- to talk to him following his second Indy 500 victory earlier this year. The race took place at the end of May and I spoke with him. He was this really affable guy, very positive, very, very outgoing. And he was quite successful on -- on the circuit. He was a champion back in 2005. He won the Indy 500 twice in his career.
And I think it would be fair to say that -- that he was someone who was considered to be one of the top guys who was going to be in the circuit for -- for the next few years, Becky. And -- and to have his life taken away at the age of 33 is just leaving everyone in dismay.
ANDERSON: And understandably.
Track safety, obviously, now a big concern to those involved in this sport.
PINTO: Especially when you consider that -- that Formula 1 has been able to become a lot safer. And -- no Formula 1 driver has passed away since Ayrton Senna. A lot of people are questioning IndyCar's safety rules and saying could this have been avoided?
Were they going too fast?
Was the track too short?
It was 1.5 miles long compared to the -- the 2.5 mile tracks that we normally see in IndyCar, especially with so many cars on track. There were 34 cars on the track. A lot of people say that that's just too much.
And that's what former Formula 1 World Cup, Jackie Stewart, hinted at when we spoke with him a little earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKIE STEWART, 3-TIME F1 DRIVE CHAMPION: I think a lot of people will be thinking, what are we going to have to do to avoid the Dan Wheldon accident of yesterday?
They are going to say is the track big enough to accommodate 34 racing cars?
Is the track too fast to have 34 racing cars within a mile-and-a-half circuit?
And therefore, will that change?
And will the caliber of driver be high enough to be able to control those cars at those kind of speeds, with the experience that the full-time drivers have, whereas in yesterday's race, there was a good many drivers in there who were not regulars and were not full-time IndyCar drivers.
I think that's a consideration that has to be looked at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: We'll have a lot more on the tragic death of Dan Wheldon later on "WORLD SPORT," in about an hour's time.
We'll also talk about the Champions League.
But definitely our lead story will be...
ANDERSON: Yes.
PINTO: -- will be Wheldon.
ANDERSON: I understand.
PINTO: Everybody is talking about that.
ANDERSON: Pedro, thank you.
Pedro Pinto there with "WORLD SPORT" up in an hour.
Well, coming up next, an agonizing wait for a good Samaritan. This was moments before a young girl in China was hit by a van and lay injured while people passed her by. Within China, people want to know what this says about their society?
We're going to hear from an expert on human behavior who says it's a scene that could play out in other cities across the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back, you're with CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN, the world's news leader at just after half past nine in London. Let's get you a check of the headlines this hour.
Israel is expected to set free nearly 500 Palestinian prisoners on Tuesday in stage one of what is a landmark prisoner exchange deal. In return, Hamas will release Gilad Shalit. He's an Israeli soldier who was captured in 2006.
Al Shabaab militants are threatening to move into Kenya if Kenyan forces do not leave Somalia. The militants say Kenyans are killing Somali citizens, but Kenyan troops say they are pursuing al Shabaab because the militants have been kidnapping foreign nationals from Kenya.
A spokesman says Libya's new government now controls Bani Walid, one of the last bastions of loyalty to the ousted leader Moammar Gadhafi. The commander of the revolutionary forces says most of the Gadhafi loyalist troops have now fled.
And thousands of Yemeni women are demanding the UN intervene in their country's month-long conflict. The rally comes a day after a female demonstrator became the first woman killed in Yemen's protests. Meantime, deadly clashes have killed 12 more people.
And Indy car racing has decided it will not hold its season-ending banquet on Monday after Sunday's tragic crash in Vegas. Two-time Indy 500 winner Dan Wheldon was killed in the fiery 15-car collision. Those are your headlines this hour.
Anger and disgust. That is the response of many people in China and around the world to our next story. Bystanders ignoring a critically injured toddler lying in the road. Have a look at this.
A two-year-old girl had just wandered away from her parents and into the middle of the street. A white van runs her over and drives away. We don't know for sure if the driver saw her, but look at how many people did.
As you can see from these security camera pictures, those on foot kept walking. Those on bicycles kept pedaling. And those in their cars and on their motorcycles kept on driving. For ten minutes, nobody stopped as the little girl lay in the middle of the street in the city of Foshan.
It took ten minutes from the initial hit and run for somebody to stop. That person was a 58-year-old rubbish collector. She stops and moves the child.
The girl is now in a critical condition in hospital. The woman who went to her and told Chinese reporters, "I didn't understand why no one else had carried her from the street."
CNN's Eunice Yoon is in Beijing and joins me now. What a sad story. What are people saying?
EUNICE YOON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPOND: It's a terrible story, Becky, and right now what we know is that the two drivers have been detained. Also, Wang Yue, the little girl, is in hospital. She's struggling for her life.
We managed to speak to her father, who said that he just is worried and feels helpless, and he said that he also is just angry and angry that so many people had walked by his little girl and nobody really thought to help her out.
He and his wife said that they were preoccupied at the time. He was working at the hardware store and his wife had been hanging laundry. They didn't realize that their daughter had walked out into the street, but once they did, his wife had rushed out and, as we saw in the video, she picked up her daughter and very quickly afterwards brought her to the hospital.
So, it's a very, very sad story that's touched so many people here, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, and we're going to do more on this, now. Eunice, thank you for that.
The incident has sparked outrage in China. On Weibo, China's version of Twitter, millions are weighing in on as what they see as a decline of morality in their country.
One user wrote, "I cannot comprehend what the 18 passers-by were thinking." He said, "Under that situation, shouldn't you at least call the police? Where has our conscience gone?"
Weibo user here saying that "This society is seriously ill. Even cats and dogs shouldn't be treated so heartlessly."
And the last one for you tonight. "Others seem to think that China's laws are the real problem. They say Previous bystanders who did help strangers were prosecuted for breaking rules on how to deal with accident victims."
And further, "Either way," one Weibo user says, "there is reason for hope they were, as the next generation of Chinese citizens, we strive to raise morality and spread the spirit of being a good Samaritan."
Well, this incident may be shocking, but it's far from isolated. Psychologists have noted a behavior that they have dubbed "the bystander effect."
I'm here by -- joined by psychologist Dr. Linda Papadopoulos, who is here to explain the bystander effect.
LINDA PAPADOPOULOS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Bystander apathy, in effect, means that if a lot of us are seeing something going wrong, then I expect you to act, you expect the person next to you to act, and actually, no one ends up acting.
It started -- one of the first studies in this was after a very famous case called the Kitty Genovese Case back in the 70s where a girl was literally being killed in full view of several people on their balconies watching this. She was shouting for help, and no one did anything.
So, I think that's partly what we're seeing here.
However, I think what's also going on is that it is such a surreal occurrence. People react to trauma and stress in different ways, and if you notice how a lot of the people were acting. No one expects to be walking down the street and seeing a little girl literally bleeding to death. I think part of the reaction is that.
I also think, though, that part of this bystander apathy is complicated by the fact that we live in such big cities, we're very socially isolated. I think had this happened in a small, rural community, we wouldn't have seen this.
ANDERSON: You know, I saw this and I was as outraged as anybody else was. But then I thought to myself, you know, in an urban city, like London, for example, I'm going to ask you whether you think this is a specifically or peculiarly Chinese cultural phenomenon, because I don't believe it is.
In London, I know that people have walked past scenes and they just walk on, be it somebody hurt in the street or somebody in trouble, whatever it is. It's not necessarily that we don't want to get involved, it's just that we don't.
PAPADOPOULOS: Yes, and we become desensitized. Absolutely. And there's several cases, I remember a couple of years ago, there was something, I believe, in Rio, where literally a man was dead in a shopping cart, people were walking by, no one was doing anything.
There was a case in the States, in New York, I believe, where a woman literally died in a hospital waiting room, was left alone for an hour, a hospital waiting room.
So, the idea that this is sort of uniformly a Chinese problem or something, I don't think it's a problem of the country, I think it's a problem of urbanization to some extent.
ANDERSON: Is it because we are so consumed by what we're doing as individuals that we don't care about other people? Is it that we would be panicked by a situation like that? What is it? What's inside our psyche which would allow us to walk past?
PAPADOPOULOS: I think there's several things going on. I think, number one, is the shock. I think there's the idea this is so odd, I'm not sure I'm the one that can commit to doing this.
I think also there is this bystander apathy, this expectation that, is this really about me? If I don't feel a connection to you, if I don't feel a connection to my community, it's much less likely that I'm going to empathize -- I'm going to take the time to empathize, and I think this is the situation here.
ANDERSON: How can we teach each other to be more -- let's call it "empathetic" tonight. I'm sure there's a much stronger word than that. But what should we do?
PAPADOPOULOS: Well, interestingly --
ANDERSON: What conversations should we have?
PAPADOPOULOS: Well, talking like this. I think the fact that this horrific incident happened, the fact that we're talking about it, they're tweeting about this being such a big thing all over the world, things like this will get us to wake up.
Because it is almost as if we become so desensitized, it becomes sort of -- it permeates into our subconscious. It's not something that's sort of -- that's there. We kind of -- we're all about getting on with the next thing that we have to do.
And I think also it's about connectivity. It's about feeling more connected.
ANDERSON: I hope -- I certainly felt that we should talk more about situations like this when I saw that video earlier on today, and I hope our viewers will have listened to you tonight and perhaps really think about what they might have done in that situation.
Linda, we've run out of time. We thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.
Stay tuned for lots more tonight, including a view of the Occupy protests that you won't see anywhere else.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Protesting basically against the inequality. I want a better future for my children, I want a better future for myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Our digital protester Phil Han walked amid the demonstrators here in London to find out what is really driving people to take a stand. They are the issues connecting protesters around the world. We'll have them back in 90 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All right. Deal or no deal? That is the only question in town for investors right now desperate for a plan to tackle Europe's debt crisis. This is the start of what is a crucial week with Sunday's EU Summit on the horizon.
Asian and European stocks got off to what was a good start on Monday after G-20 finance ministers called for a comprehensive plan over the weekend, but things went downhill in Europe and, subsequently, the US, after Germany threw cold water on any idea of a fast resolution to the crisis.
The Dow Jones down 2.1 percent, 247-odd points, and that was a stay or play. You can see pretty much that market taking a dip right through its session.
Give you a look at -- in fact, the FTSE down 0.7 percent. I wanted to give you a look at the DAX here, and that the stay or play, 1.87 percent down. You can see again, not a bad start, but then we heard these comments from the Germans and really that market coming off.
If there's any evidence that Europe is still in a big old mess, look no further than the country where the crisis started. Greece faces a key vote on the austerity measures on Thursday as more and more people fight against government cuts.
Support workers in Athens walked off the job on Monday, protesting cutbacks. In fact, Monday marking a series of new strikes, the streets of the capital piling up with rubbish as garbage collectors take a stand, and finance ministry officials and tax inspectors kicking off a ten-day strike.
With a big day looming this week for the government, John Defterios takes us back to where the crisis all began.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR (voice-over): A half hour outside of central Athens lies a modern-day ghost town. The near-empty 2004 Olympic Center is a permanent reminder of the go-go days after Greece's entry into the euro.
Securing the bid was an effort to project a modern country which is proud of its past.
DEFTERIOS (on camera): The Games were a big boost to Greece's image, but the country continues to pay a huge price today.
In fact, spending was about double original expectations. That combined with low interest rates after joining the euro created a consumer spending spree and pushed off government reforms.
It was almost like a perfect storm which continues to haunt the country today.
DEFTERIOS (voice-over): Greece's economy grew nearly six percent a year before the Olympics, and over four percent in 2004. But it was consumer-led growth, with record borrowing that ran out of fuel just a few years later.
EVANGELOS MYTILINEOS, CHAIRMAN, MYTILINEOS HOLDINGS: Instead of using this money to build infrastructure, to build a production base that would last us through the decades, we did consume the money.
We bought all the Mercedes, we bought all the luxury goods, we bought this, we bought that. OK. And that's where we are now.
DEFTERIOS: At the same time, basking in the Olympic glow, the conservative government of Kostas Karamanlis came to power and chose to ramp up state spending. Petros Doukas, deputy economy minister in that government, says he was ringing alarm bells, but nobody was listening.
PETROS DOUKAS, FORMER DEPUTY FINANCE MINISTER, GREECE: One month after I became deputy finance minister, I said I can see that our cash deficit is rising faster than our reported fiscal deficit.
DEFTERIOS: Privatization of state-run companies, such as water and power, were put off to protect jobs.
DOUKAS: The feeling at the time was, OK, it's manageable, we'll manage it next year or the year after. But the markets deteriorated very rapidly and we were virtually all caught with our pants down.
DEFTERIOS: Fast-forward to the autumn of 2009. After the elections, socialist leader George Papandreou inherited a budget deficit, which at 12.7 percent, was almost double what was officially reported to the European Union.
Even after a near collapse of the economy, there remains intense resistance to change. Government workers at ministries charged with implementing reforms barricade offices.
DIMITRIS PAPALEXOPOULOS, MANAGING DIRECTOR, TITAN CEMENT: The most important thing that needs to be done is to change -- radically change the bloated, ineffective, and inefficient and over-leveraged public sector.
DEFTERIOS: The government is facing huge protests of constantly rising taxes. Salaries and pensions have been cut by at least 20 percent, but not the size of the state. The Greek people are entering a new phase of the crisis, which is big on mistrust of its own government and Brussels.
DOUKAS: This is like the 150th measure you're taking, and we're not closer to salvation than we were three years ago. So, people are losing their trust.
DEFTERIOS (on camera): At this juncture, the country's current finance minister says the only thing they can offer is more pain and sacrifice. It's not clear after three years of recession whether the Greek people want to continue on this long marathon of austerity.
John Defterios, CNN, Athens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, to bring the euro zone back from the brink, the markets want to see a plan to recapitalize the banks. Of course, that is exactly what many involved in the global Occupy movement are angry about.
In Seattle, demonstrators were ordered to move their tents so that city workers could clean Westlake Park area. Police were on hand when some refused.
Over the weekend, we saw protests in a number of places around the world, including Germany, Italy, Hong Kong, and Israel. In London, hundreds of activists remained camped out in front of St. Paul's Cathedral in protest against the global financial system.
And on Saturday, CNN's Digital Producer Phil Han took his camera along to rally in London. To a rally, he wasn't rallying himself, he was just observing. Throughout the day, he tweeted, painting a picture of the mood on the street, and here's a snapshot of what he found.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TEXT: PhilHanCNN. Got to the scene and see a mix of tourists and police. A pap tells me there are one thousand plus protesters. 12:18
CROWD (chanting): Whose streets? Our streets! Whose streets? Our streets! Whose streets? Our streets!
TEXT: PhilHanCNN. Chants of who's streets, its our streets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The banks have sold us out, and we're not going to see anything back from it. The economy's still in decline, and it's time we put regulations to the banks and fixed this mess. 12:27
TEXT: PhilHanCNN. Protester tells me his is angry at banks and could keep up effort for two or three weeks. #occupy. 12:32
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I started to wake up, really, when Egypt and -- when Egypt started protesting, basically. I remember saying to my husband, "That's it, now. That's been done. People -- it's been proven that people can do it if they stay together." And it's gone global, now, hasn't it?
TEXT: PhilHanCNN. Woman tells me she's here for her children and she was inspired by events in Egypt. #occupy. 12:39
PhilHanCNN. I'm behind police lines as crowd surges. 12:47
PhilHanCNN. Literally being slammed against wall while police push us back! Intense! 12:51:36
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to make a point and show, just like in America, in Spain, in Greece, in Bosnia, even, in Chile, everywhere, including in England, people -- people haven't just let the crisis die down. Even though it was actually worse two years ago, their anger is sizzling.
TEXT: PhilHanCNN. A student from Sheffield comes with camp gear and says he's got room in his tent. 13:08
PhilHanCNN. Wow! Julian Assange from WikiLeaks has arrived! He is being greeted like a god! Startling. #occupy. 14:26
JULIAN ASSANGE, FOUNDER, WIKILEAKS: What is happening here today --
CROWD: What is happening here today --
ASSANGE: -- is a combination of things --
CROWD: -- is a combination of things --
ASSANGE: -- that many people all over the world --
CROWD: -- that many people all over the world --
ASSANGE: -- have worked towards --
CROWD: -- have worked towards --
ASSANGE: -- from Cairo to London!
CROWD: -- from Cairo to London!
(CROWD CHEERS)
TEXT: PhilHanCNN. Assange stands on the steps of St. Paul's like a leader speaking to his flock. 14:26
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Key dates for you to keep in mind. Remember, this could be the most important week in the euro zone's history.
As I've mentioned, Greece's parliament will vote on Thursday on whether to approve the next round of austerity measures. Those are part of its bailout conditions, remember.
October the 23rd is the day of the European Council's meeting. If a deal for Greece isn't approved, the country could well run out of money and default.
And then, November the 3rd, G-20 leaders are going to gather in Cannes in the south of France, where a full presentation of the salvage operation is expected. Keep that as a diary note for yourselves.
Next up, putting the words to the works of a legendary composer in a voice that will simply give you chills.
(MUSIC - "GABRIEL'S OBOE WHISPERING IN A DREAM" BY HAYLEY WESTENRA)
ANDERSON: Getting behind the scenes with Ennio Morricone and his protege, the gifted New Zealand soprano Hayley Westenra, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Genius. Is it a case of nature or nurture? That's what we are going to explore all this week on this show, CONNECT THE WORLD.
We're going to be bringing you Big Interviews with three stars who are at the top of their field, and one many who is hoping he, too, can get there by proving the theory that with 10,000 hours of practice, anyone can be brilliant. Our interview with golfer-in-training Dan McLaughlin later in the week.
Tonight, though, we're going to start with a young soprano discovered at the age of six. Now at just 24, Hayley Westenra could already be discovered -- or considered a veteran of the music industry. And she's still taking of the dreams one by one.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON (voice-over): The hauntingly beautiful score from the 1986 film "The Mission."
(OBOE MUSIC)
ANDERSON: Now, 25 years after Ennio Morricone wrote "Gabriel's Oboe," the Italian composer has invited a young soprano to put words to the famous theme song.
The result is "Whispers in a Dream," just one of the songs on "Paridiso," the collaborative album between the legend and his protege.
HAYLEY WESTENRA, SOPRANO: I kind of initially thought I'd just be doing one track with him, and it was an album, and the next minute I was in Rome at his apartment meeting him and then talking about how we'd go about making this album.
And then I was in the studio with him, which was pretty overwhelming. I didn't expect him to take such an active role in the whole recording process. I thought he might sort of take a back seat, like an executive producer-type role, being -- I thought he might be on the end of the fine line, and that was it.
But he was in the studio with me, and he was really encouraging me to dig deep, and even when I thought that I'd given my all, he would send me back in to have another shot. And he was right, I could give more. And so, it was really great for me to have that direction, pushing me on.
ANDERSON (on camera): I heard him say that you're a great singer with an extraordinary voice and you take direction.
WESTENRA: When I saw his comments, I was really quite touched. It's a huge honor -- for any artist to have the opportunity to work with such a legend. And he's 82 years of age, and he doesn't need to be working, really, but yet he wanted to make this album with me, and I -- it's -- yes. It's something I still haven't quite taken in.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Extraordinary voice, extraordinary achievements. Hayley, now 24, was recognized as a young age as a prodigy.
She's now the highest-selling classical artist of the 21st century, performing before royalty and heads of state, and sharing the stage with other greats, including Jose Carreras and Andrea Bocelli.
WESTENRA: My schoolteacher, she recognized that I could sing when I was about six, and she gave me a solo in my school play. And I guess that was the moment when I realized I really liked being up on stage, which was quite weird, because I was really shy as a child.
So I didn't tell my parents at all about this whole solo and the play. So, they came along and got quite a shock seeing me up there.
ANDERSON (on camera): That was six years old, but at some point, somebody must have realized that you had something really, really special. Who was that?
WESTENRA: I don't know. I just -- I received a lot of encouragement along the way. I kind of knew inside that -- singing was so natural for me, I don't know, I just had a lot of -- self-belief, I guess, that that was what I was supposed to be doing.
And I wasn't very sporty. There are lots of other things that are like, no, not for me. Singing was it.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Sporty or not, Westenra is also quickly becoming synonymous with the rugby World Cup.
ANDERSON (on camera): You're the voice, "The World in Union," for the, certainly, the UK audience --
WESTENRA: Yes.
ANDERSON: And I know that you're singing one of the anthems at the final.
WESTENRA: Yes, I've been booked to sing one of the anthems, but I'm like -- I really don't want to be out singing anyone else's anthem. I only want to be singing for the All Blacks. So I don't -- I won't even contemplate not singing the New Zealand national anthem.
Yes, I can't wait to head home. I'm kind of disappointed I'm missing out on the earlier matches.
ANDERSON: Are you a rugby fan?
WESTENRA: Oh, yes. It's -- it's definitely -- it's in our blood as a Kiwi, we're sort of -- we're born to love rugby. And there've been some great matches so far. It's really exciting, but I'm still quite nervous, because I really -- I just want the All Blacks to do well, because they deserve it.
ANDERSON (voice-over): It comes as Hayley celebrates ten years since her first album. Not bad for a young lady who started out as a busker.
ANDERSON (on camera): But you are very grounded, as well. How do you manage that? I know you've probably been asked that question a million times. How important is it to you to be grounded?
WESTENRA: It is, it's really important to me. I don't have to work to hard at it, really, because my family -- I'm so close to my family, and they wouldn't let me get too far off in the clouds. And I just think my family and then the people that I surround myself with, they -- they wouldn't let me turn into a diva or anything.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: All right. Well, you know that the Kiwis and the French are playing in that final. For the tipsters out there, it could be worth noting that every time Hayley has opened for the All Blacks, they've won. Big match Saturday.
Tomorrow night, we've got another brilliant young woman on the show. Many of you will know her as Winnie Cooper from the 80s TV series "The Wonder Years." But actress Danica McKellar is also a math genius.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANICA MCKELLAR, MATH GENIUS: We're all smart, you're all geniuses, and I'm going to show you how to find that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Is it nature or nurture? That's what we're debating on CONNEC THE WORLD all this week. Join the discussion, leave your comments at facebook.com/CNNconnect.
Now, if you've ever said you are too old to exercise -- I know a lot of people who say that -- you might need to find another excuse after seeing tonight's Parting Shots.
Never has a last-place finish at a marathon been such a victory. That is because Fauja Singh is a hundred years old. He's the oldest undisputed runner to finish a marathon, running just over 42 kilometers in eight hours in Toronto on Sunday.
The Turban Tornado, as he's known, only took up the sport -- get this -- when he was 89. There are no more excuses.
I'm Becky Anderson, thanks for watching. The world news headlines and "BackStory" will follow this short break. Don't go away.
END
