Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Captain of Sunken Cruise Ship Faces Prosecution; BAFTA Awards; Happy 70th to Muhammad Ali; English Wikipedia Goes Black for 24 Hours to Protest US Anti-Piracy Legislation; SOPA and PIPA Legislation; War Over SOPA Online; Online Piracy Debate; Divine Chocolate Traces All Cocoa Origins; Big Interview: Greek Royal Family; Parting Shots of Sweden's Democratic Twitter Account
Aired January 17, 2012 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: "Get back on board, that is an order" -- the chaotic call to the captain, as the Costa Concordia went down. Dramatic transcripts come to light as five more bodies are pulled from the wreckage.
Live from London, I'm Becky Anderson.
Also tonight, what's got these global media moguls all wound up and why just hours from now millions of you could be affected.
And simply known as "The Greatest," a boxing legend celebrates a milestone birthday.
That's the next hour here on CNN.
First up, four days into the search for survivors and rescuers make a grim discovery. Five bodies have been recovered from the wreckage of the Costa Concordia, bringing the number of dead to at least 11. New underwater pictures show the tough conditions that divers are facing, as well as the damage inflicted on the cruise liner after it collided with rocks on Friday evening. While the cause of the disaster is clear, the role of the ship's captain remains the focus of the investigation.
After appearing before an Italian judge, Francesco Schettino was placed under house arrest earlier as a dramatic audio recording raised fresh questions over whether he left hundreds of terrified passengers to fend for themselves.
Well, CNN's Dan Rivers has been listening to that tape.
And he joins me now from the island of Giglio in -- in Italy -- first of all, Dan's report, we're going to come to Dan shortly.
Have a listen and a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Blasting their way in to the inaccessible parts of the Costa Concordia, the Italian Navy is now using explosives to help search this liner. Four days after the ship went aground, the number of dead is rising. And so is the number of missing. Infrared footage from coast guard helicopters has been released, showing passengers making their way down rope ladders to board life rafts in the dark.
The stricken ship carried more than 4,000 passengers and crew.
On Tuesday, the captain who was at the helm when the disaster occurred appeared at this courthouse in Grosseto. He could be charged with manslaughter, carrying a 15-year sentence.
Transcripts of his conversation with the port authority just after the ship add weight to the impression he failed his passengers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, Schettino, there are people trapped on board. Now you have to go with your lifeboat and go under the boat stem on the straight side. There is ladder there.
You go on board. That is an order. You cannot make any other evaluations. You have declared abandoning ship. Now I'm in charge. You good evening on board!
Is it clear?
SCHETTINO: How many dead bodies are there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know! I know of one. I've heard of one. You are the one to tell me how many there are. Christ!
RIVERS: That conversation, combined with information from computers on board the ship, will be central in any future prosecution of Captain Schettino.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ANDERSON: All right, we're going to get Dan up on the line or up live for you out of Italy just shortly.
But the chaos and the confusion in the initial hours shown there, while search and rescue, of course, does remain the absolute priority, the question of what happens next to the vessel is now being muted.
Now, what we know is that Dutch company, Smit is monitoring the site and will determine what can be done with this ship, the Concordia. As one theory, known as parbuckling. Now, this is how the ship stands at present, on its side, starboard side, in about 37 meters of water. That is about 100 foot of water.
First and foremost, crews have got to complete flushing out more than 2,000 tons of fuel. At that stage, they will then start the process parbuckling. This is how that would work. You've got a huge inflatable balloon, effectively, there, and you've got a great big cable here. These cables are attached both to the sand underneath here and to an enormous barge.
And the idea is that between that and these cables, this boat will be righted eventually. It will still be submerged in this huge amount -- well, it's not a huge amount of water. In fact, it's quite shallow, 100 feet of water.
It sounds like a lot of water, doesn't it?
After that, you've got the process by which the -- those working on this will get this boat up out of the water, working on barges on both the port and starboard side. And the idea is to raise this up.
Now, once that is done, when possible, the Concordia would then be towed away and either scrapped for metal or repaired.
If it does manage to get repaired, the company says it wouldn't be put back into service until at least December.
Well, Bob Umbdenstock is a marine salvage expert joining us from Fort Lauderdale, Florida tonight.
The process, Bob, of parbuckling sounds quite straightforward.
Is it?
BOB UMBDENSTOCK, RESOLVE MARINE GROUP: Well, it's a standard technique, Becky. It has been used many times over the years.
ANDERSON: All right. We're looking at pictures of what is going on, well, they're certainly pictures from underwater here of the -- of the hull of the sort of damage that's been done to this ship.
When you look at those pictures and you consider what sort of experience the industry has in successfully pulling this operation off, marks out of 10 or a sense out of 10 of how successful these guys are going to be in getting this boat upright again and out of the water?
UMBDENSTOCK: It's quite early to say, Becky. There's a lot of information that has to be developed as a result of more diving work to inspect the damage to the ship, to -- for the engineers to consider what forces are at play and -- and that they have to overcome in order to induce a rolling motion in the ship to hold it upright.
ANDERSON: What sort of experience does the industry have in pulling something like this off?
UMBDENSTOCK: Oh, I think it has substantial experience. The larger salvage companies in the world have done this many times throughout the years. This is, as I said, a standard technique.
However, doing it in any particular case, it always has its own challenges. And that's what the analysis beforehand is going to have to address.
ANDERSON: All right. So what is the risk here and how long is this process going to take?
UMBDENSTOCK: Well, this could be as much as six months to a year before it's done. There's a lot of preparation that has to be done, making the -- the hull ready to roll and ready to refloat once it is rolled.
ANDERSON: What's the prospect of the -- of the ship being operational again?
Of course, search and rescue is an absolute priority before any of this goes on.
But would you -- would you be a betting man and say to me tonight that this ship will be operational going forward?
UMBDENSTOCK: Well, I think that it's very early to say that. You're absolutely right saying the first concern now is for the loss of life and finding the bodies before they do anything else. And then they'll be looking at protecting the environment now and throughout any operation that may proceed.
Only after they -- they have a little more information will they be able to assess the prospects for this ship. It is pretty dim (INAUDIBLE) as a (INAUDIBLE) the sea.
ANDERSON: Yes, all right.
OK. We're going to leave it there.
Bob, we thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.
Just a sense of the process, the salvage process which, as Bob says, could take six months to a year. But let's remember tonight, this hour, there are still missing people there and the search and rescue continues off the coast of Italy.
CNN's Dan Rivers does now join me on the line.
We heard a remarkable conversation providing some chilling insight into exactly what happened when the ship hit the rocks off the Italian coast earlier -- Dan, you've listened to that tape.
Your thoughts?
RIVERS: Yes, I mean it -- it lends weight to the argument, I think, for his critics, Captain Schettino's critics, that he took a reckless course of action, deviating from -- from the set course that they'd done a week before and then compounding that after they hit the rocks, it appears that he was then off the boat on one of the -- the -- the lifeboats, trying to -- to -- to marshal people from there. And you could hear the way he was berated by the port authority, ordering him several times to get back on the ship to ensure everyone was safe.
Now, there's been some speculation here as -- as to whether, you know, his state of mind, the captain, whether he was, you know, he had been drinking or something. There is speculation he may have been tested for alcohol in -- in the hours after the accident.
Those details have not been formally released and that will form, presumably, part of any future prosecution, if it comes to that.
And at the moment, this evening, he is under house arrest rather than being detained. That was a -- a controversial decision and it was taken in the last couple of hours, that the prosecutor here, Francesco Verusio, described as being -- he was speechless when we heard that the captain was allowed to go back home.
And this is being described by the -- the skipper's lawyer as a -- a new decision based on potential cooperation from his client.
So the judge apparently sort of changing tact, initially giving the impression that he would be in custody and then after he had left that tribunale, he was then told that he -- he -- he was going to be taken back home rather than to -- to a prison.
ANDERSON: Where do search and rescue efforts stand tonight, Dan?
RIVERS: Right. Well, this evening, as I look at the wreck, it's still surrounded by four or five tugs which are watching. I can't see any activity on the wreck itself. In the previous nights, we had seen activity close up with the small blimps and so on going very close up. This evening, there's not -- there's no boats close up, giving me the impression that -- that they've suspended things for now.
I mean I think as every night goes by, in the bitterly cold temperatures here, the chances of -- of finding survivors are getting ever slimmer. And I think they are beginning to -- to -- to realize that.
But there is still a large number of people missing. And as you mentioned, you know, before they get to any kind of righting of the boat or salvage, they -- they've got to -- to ascertain what happened to those missing people. And if that means finding bodies, so be it. But -- but they've got to do that before they -- before they attempt to salvage this ship.
ANDERSON: Our top story tonight with Dan Rivers.
Dan, thank you for that.
Dramatic phone transcripts come to light as five more bodies are pulled from the wreckage of the Costa Concordia. Search and rescue, of course, continues, as conditions there in Southern Italy.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from London.
Still to come, the highest ranking Syrian official to defect so far calls the city of Homs a ghost town full or horror. The former lawmaker speaks to CNN, up next.
Then, could the sweets you eat be linked to child slavery in Africa?
CNN's Freedom Project follows the supply chain to see just how many kids are being exploited.
And "The Greatest" turns 70 -- we're going to examine the career of Muhammad Ali later this hour. Happy birthday, sir.
That's all coming up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN, the world's news leader.
Welcome back.
Fifteen minutes past nine in London.
Now, it is being called a war between Hollywood and Silicon Valley and now Wikipedia is taking sides. The free online encyclopedia will go black on Wednesday for 24 hours. Now, that is in protest against anti-piracy legislation before the U.S. Congress.
Now, supporters, like the movie and music industries, say piracy does billions of dollars in damage and must be stopped.
But critics say the legislation promotes censorship and threatens freedom of expression.
Much more on that story just ahead in this show.
Well, Syria rejecting any foreign investment after Qatar suggested Arab troops be sent there to stop months of deadly unrest. Well, this comes as a former Syrian parliament member says the government of Bashar al-Assad has an open budget to crush the dissent. Imad Ghalioun recently fled to Egypt, becoming the highest ranking Syrian official to defect. He represented Homs, a city under siege.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: what is happening in Homs is a crisis, a ghost town full of horror, no words to describe the situation," he says. "The humanitarian situation is dangerous and no basic services, food, supplies or equipped hospitals. Residents cannot move from one neighborhood to another because of snipers that kill people."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the European Court of Human Rights is blocking the UK's deportation of a radical cleric linked to al Qaeda. Britain describes Abu Qatada as a -- an inspiration for terrorists such as Mohammad Atta, the lead hijacker behind the 9/11 attacks. Well, the court found that Qatada would be at risk of mistreatment is deported to his native Jordan.
Well, a prominent Spanish judge is now on trial on charges he abused his authority. Baltasar Garzon is best known for his investigations into human rights abuses. He first attracted international attention in 1998 when he pursued the extradition of Chile's former dictator, Augusto Pinochet. He is accused of overstepping his authority in an investigation into financial corruption.
Romania's government has reinstated its deputy health minister in a bid to quell nationwide protests. Raed Arafat resigned last week after criticizing proposed changes to the health care system. His departure sparked five days of violent protests with thousands demanding new elections and an end to government austerity measures.
Well, the European Commission is threatening legal action against Hungary following anti-government protests in Budapest. The EC says controversial reforms introduced by the government do not respect EU law. The Commission is concerned about three rulings, one which threatens the independence of Hungary's central bank. Both the EC and the IMF say they will withhold aid over the matter.
Well, movie awards season is in full swing. And Britain's BAFTA film nominations are out. Leading the pack with 12 nominations is silent film, "The Artist." It picked up best picture at the Golden Globes, you may remember, last weekend.
CNN's Neil Curry has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEIL CURRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The old saying, speech is silver, silence is golden, bodes well for the film, "The Artist." Shot in black and white, it tells the tale of a silent movie star struggling to come to terms with the onset of talkies. With three Golden Globes in the bank already, the film added another dozen nominations for next month's BAFTAS, announced on Tuesday in London.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "TINKER, TAILOR, SOLDIER, SPY," COURTESY FOCUS FEATURES)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: there is a mole right at the top of British intelligence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURRY: Breathing down the "The Artist's" neck is the British cold war spy film, "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy," with 11 nominations, including best film and best actor for Gary Oldman. He'll compete with George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Michael Fassbender and Jean Dujardin for the BAFTA.
Harry Potter star, Daniel Radcliffe, was on hand to reveal the nominations, which included a strong lineup of British talent, including Tilda Swinton, Carey Mulligan and "Senna".
DANIEL RADCLIFFE, ACTOR: I remember, you know, halfway -- halfway through the Potter series, there was -- Potter was the only major film in the U.K. at the time. And now, you know, "Batman" and "Bond" and, you know, "X-Men" last year and "War Horse," so many films are being made here now. And I think the perception of English crews and English filmmakers is that, you know, that they're -- they're interesting, talented and -- and, you know, hard-working.
MARK KERMODE, FILM CRITIC: How great to see a year like this in which there is recognition for great British films like, you know, "We Need to Talk About Kevin," "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy," "Senna." These are the big headline stories for me.
So it's very important and I think increasingly they're seen as globally important.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE IRON LADY," COURTESY WEINSTEIN COMPANY)
MERYL STREEP, ACTRESS: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURRY: At the Golden Globes, Meryl Streep thanked England for letting her, as she put it, trample all over history with her portrayal of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. The British Academy didn't seem to mind, including her in the best actress category, alongside Michelle Williams, Tilda Swinton and Viola Davis.
(on camera): The people at BAFTA have demonstrated an ability to look beyond recent Anglo-French tensions over the Eurozone and award no fewer than 12 nominations to the French film, "The Artist." And strangely enough, for a silent movie, one of those nominations is in the category of best sound.
Neil Curry, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ANDERSON: Go figure.
Up next on this edition of CONNECT THE WORLD live from London, 21 minutes past nine as we speak.
Happy 70th birthday for Muhammad Ali. Pedro Pinto joins me to talk about "The Greatest".
They're (INAUDIBLE), but will the Greek royal family ever sit on the throne again?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: at some point, I think that I'll write about it and people will understand what it's all about and why it happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Our exclusive interview with King Constantine and his family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: This is CONNECT THE WORLD live from London.
I'm Becky Anderson.
Welcome back.
Now, Muhammad Ali may no longer float like a butterfly or sting like a bee, but on his 70th birthday, he's still an icon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM OCTOBER 30, 1974)
MUHAMMAD ALI, BOXER: I told you, all of my critics, I told you all that I the greatest of all time. (INAUDIBLE), I told you today I'm still the greatest of all time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And he said it more than once.
The boxing legend is still "The Greatest" in the eyes of his fans and his career -- he was -- was quite remarkable. He won a gold medal and boxing's heavyweight title. He also became a hero and a villain to many Americans for converting to Islam and then refusing to fight in the Vietnam War. That decision cost him three years out of the ring during his prime, between 1967 and 1970, after he was convicted of refusing induction to the armed forces.
Well, he is definitely on anyone's short list of the most famous athletes ever.
Pedro Pinto here to discuss.
And that remarkable stuff, remarkable stuff when you consider what has been through.
What a remarkable man. And he's made it to 70.
PEDRO PINTO, CNN "WORLD SPORT" ANCHOR: You're right. And especially if you consider that, unfortunately, has been afflicted by the...
ANDERSON: Sure.
PINTO: -- the Parkinson's Disease. He -- he's still holding up well. He celebrated his 70th birthday with family and friends in Louisville, where he was born.
And when you talk about family, he -- he has quite a bit of it, Becky. When I was researching his life, I found he was married four times. He's got nine children.
ANDERSON: Wow!
PINTO: So no doubt, he was not by himself on such an important day as today.
And it's great to see a man who means so much to so many people, not only as a sportsman, but as an icon. And -- and in the -- in the fight for civil rights in the United States during the '60s and '70s, he was really kind of a beacon of light for -- for a lot of people.
ANDERSON: Yes. Here and (INAUDIBLE), obviously, a lot of -- there was a lot of controversy around his life, as well.
He was, of course, well-known for his brash quotes.
PINTO: Yes.
ANDERSON: Remind us of some of the classics.
PINTO: He had -- I think he was one of the few first sports personalities that made the headlines for what he said as much for what he did.
ANDERSON: Right.
PINTO: We've got three quotes that we picked out and Muhammad Ali really showed that he could catch the attention with -- with a -- no coincidence that he was called the Louisville Lip. "There's not a man alive who can whoop me. I'm too fast. I'm too smart. I'm too pretty." This is Muhammad Ali. And it -- he's not done yet with this particular line. "I should be a postage stamp. That's the only way I'll ever get licked."
More from -- from him. And you men -- you touched upon this famous quote earlier, "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, his hands can't hit what his eyes can't see." And he was really known as being one of the fastest men in the world of boxing.
ANDERSON: Right, he was.
PINTO: And finally: "It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am."
ANDERSON: You think he was...
PINTO: So there you go. No -- no -- no shortage of...
ANDERSON: His lack of modesty...
PINTO: -- self-confidence, yes?
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON: Muhammad Ali is, of course, 70 today. And we wish him the absolute best.
On to the tennis. Of course, it's the Australian Open.
What's going on?
PINTO: Yes. Day three will start in -- in just a -- a couple of hours time Down Under. But day two was not a particularly good occasion for the home fans, the Australians. They saw their brightest hope to end a 31-year title drought at Melbourne Park come to an end as Sam Stosur, the reigning U.S. Open champion, was knocked out in straight sets, as well, by Sorana Cirstea from -- from Romania. She's really struggled to do well in front of the home fans. She's admitted that she -- she struggles with the -- with the pressure. She's never made it past the fourth round at the Australian Open. And this was really the big first upset of the 2012 edition of -- of this tournament.
ANDERSON: Well, for those who, obviously, are watching tonight and feeling a bit sore about that, we've got some surfing video, the likes of which...
PINTO: Yes.
ANDERSON: -- apparently...
(LAUGHTER)
PINTO: It's -- it's not...
ANDERSON: Australians will love -- and the rest of us, of course.
PINTO: Exactly. It's not from Australia, but as you're right, you're right, Aussies love -- love the sport. We've got some incredible pictures from Tahiti. And if you've ever been on a surfboard, you -- you may not want to repeat what this gentleman is doing here. This has been shot by a cinematographer in super slo-mo. And beautiful pictures. But incredibly dangerous.
The French Navy actually made it a double code red because the -- the conditions were so dangerous out -- out at sea. They said anyone who -- who would be dumb enough, I guess, in their -- in their opinion, to try to surf these waves...
ANDERSON: (INAUDIBLE).
PINTO: -- would be arrested. But that -- that really didn't stop...
ANDERSON: Yes.
PINTO: -- a couple of the surfers who went...
ANDERSON: How do they...
PINTO: -- out there.
ANDERSON: -- how do they film that?
Do you have any idea?
I just saw somebody (INAUDIBLE) so I guess there's a mad caravan out there.
PINTO: It is. And I think it's...
ANDERSON:
PINTO: -- it's what you call putting your body on the line. And I'm glad he did it, because incredible pictures.
ANDERSON: Ooh.
PINTO: I wouldn't want to think what it's like being under that wave when it crashes. I mean I've never been a great surfer. I'm from Portugal. I was more into body board, which was the easiest kind of discipline of -- of that kind of sea sports but...
ANDERSON: Sure.
PINTO: -- I -- I was kind of shaken around in...
ANDERSON: OK.
PINTO: -- in the sea, as well, and can't compare it to what happened to that...
ANDERSON: All right.
PINTO: -- guy right there.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
PINTO: Yes.
ANDERSON: Pedro we'll be back, of course, in an hour with "WORLD SPORT".
More on Muhammad Ali, of course, and the Australian Open in that show about an hour from now.
Do join us for that.
Still to come on CONNECT THE WORLD this hour, it could be a lot harder to find answers on the Internet tomorrow. We're going to see why the popular Web site, Wikipedia, will soon go to black.
Then, tracing the chocolate chain to put an end to forced child labor. Find out which company says it knows where all of its cocoa comes from.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Still to come on CONNECT THE WORLD this hour, it could be a lot harder to find answers on the internet tomorrow. We're going to see why the popular website Wikipedia will soon go to black.
Then, tracing the chocolate chain to put an end to forced child labor. Find out which company says it knows where all of it cocoa comes from.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN. Let's get you a check of the world news headlines at this point.
Rescuers have recovered five bodies from the wreckage of the Costa Concordia, taking the number of dead to at least 11. The cruise ship's captain has been placed under house arrest as a new audiotape raises questions over whether he left hundreds of passengers to fend for themselves.
Syria is warning its Arab neighbors not to send any troops to stop the bloodshed. The emir of Qatar suggested this weekend that Arab soldiers may be needed to end the killing. A government defector insists the regime will stop at nothing to hold onto power.
Well, the defense is laying out its case in the trial of Egypt's former president. Hosni Mubarak is accused of ordering the killing of protesters. His attorney said there was no evidence of that and that Mubarak is a, quote, "just man, not a tyrant."
The European Court of Human Rights is blocking the UK's deportation of a radical cleric. Britain describes Abu Qatada as an inspiration for terrorists. The court found that Qatada would be at risk of mistreatment if disported to his native Jordan.
The founder of Wikipedia is warning students to do their homework early, because one of the internet's biggest information sites is about to go black. Seven hours form now, the English language version of the free encyclopedia will shut down for 24 hours to protest anti-piracy legislation working its way through the US Congress.
Now, the effect of the blackout could be enormous. An estimated 25 million of us around the world use Wikipedia every day. A few other sites will also go dark to raise awareness of legislation that critics say will wreck the internet as we know it.
That legislation has plenty of support from Hollywood and other heavy- hitters and those who say piracy is costing them billions of dollars a year. So, exactly how would this legislation crack down if it's passed into law? Maggie Lake joining us from New York with the details.
It's fairly complicated stuff, so let's make it easy for the viewers, Maggie.
MAGGIE LAKE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky, if we're talking acronyms, we're in trouble, you're right. This is complicated to weed through and frankly, many of us hadn't heard of SOPA or PIPA before this week.
But it's thrust into the spotlight because the movie industry and media companies on one hand and the technology industry are in an escalating war of words over what they say boils down to piracy versus internet freedom. At least, that's how they're framing it.
At issue that they're divided over is legislation making its way through Congress, that's the SOPA and PIPA. Let's take a look at what's happening and what the change is.
Remember, piracy is already illegal. What we're looking to do -- or what Congress is looking to do with this act, Stop Online Piracy, that's the SOPA, is not to go after these offshore sites. They're having trouble cracking down on these sites that are not in US jurisdiction who allow users to go on and trade and get illegal material.
So, they want to block your access to it. So, they want to do things like give content owners the right to request court orders, to have advertisers and payment processors be able to be forbidden to do business with these people, require search engines to remove -- not let us search and get to these sites. They want to block the access roads. They think that'll be more effective on cracking down on piracy.
Tech companies, though, say that this is going way too far. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED BLACK, COMPUTER AND COMMUNICATIONS INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION: You don't want companies to be absolutely liable for everything that somebody may post on their site. If you think of Facebook, if you think of Twitter, if you think of Google and eBay, et cetera, people put things, users put things onto company sites, and companies can't control that.
Well, they could by censorship. And that's what we want to avoid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAKE: That issue of control. Now, the Movie Association says, listen, we support free speech, but these bills are about illegal activity, they're not threatening free speech at all.
It's not just movie companies. Media companies, including Time- Warner, support this, and Rupert Murdoch has been tweeting about, which has certainly helped escalate things. He's been very sharp in his criticism. Wikipedia taking the step to blocking.
Now, interestingly, because you have this heating up with both sides sort of attacking each other, lawmakers in Washington have actually -- dialed things back. They canceled a hearing that was scheduled tomorrow that Wikipedia was pegging this blackout to, they've postponed it for the time being, saying they want more information from both sides.
But you can bet we're going to hear from both of them as they protect what they feel are critical interests for themselves.
ANDERSON: Maggie Lake, on the story of the hour, which is an enormous topic online, of course, as you would expect, Maggie. And naturally, this Wikipedia blackout, well, it's got the internet alive. It's the sounding board, of course, for this story.
Media tycoon Rupert Murdoch has, as Maggie suggested -- chairman of the media giant News Corp, supports the legislation and hasn't been mincing his words on Twitter. This is your man, here.
He says his first target was President Obama, Murdoch attacked his relationship with what he called the president's "Silicon Valley pay masters." That was after the White House said it wouldn't support the legislation.
He also took on giant Google saying "Piracy leader is Google, who streams movies free, sells some adverts around them. No wonder pouring -- millions into lobbying."
Well, Google called the allegations nonsense, it told the technology blog CNET, "Last year, we took down five million infringing web pages from our search results and invested more than $60 million in the fight against bad ads."
In the interest of full disclosure, we must point out Time-Warner, the parent company of CNN, as Maggie said, is one of the media companies in favor of the proposed legislation.
Let's get more, now, on what is a heated debate that pits the fight against piracy against concerns over censorship and the freedom of expression. Marty Schwimmer is a trademark and copyright attorney. He looked at both sides of this argument -- represented both sides, I believe, Marty -- joining us out of New York tonight.
Firstly, is this legislation as we see it and hear it being discussed, likely to get passed, do you think?
MARTY SCHWIMMER, TRADEMARK AND COPYRIGHT ATTORNEY: I think that there's no possibility of the legislation being passed. Over the weekend, the White House said that they are opposed to some of the most objectionable parts of the legislation, so the answer to that is no.
ANDERSON: Draconian legislation? Is -- destructive legislation is what, certainly, Jimmy Wales, who's CEO of the website Wikipedia, is suggesting. An infringement on -- sort of the very nature of the web which, of course, is open. That's his side of the argument.
Those who are looking to make money out of the web and the movie and media companies say, listen, we need this sort of legislation. Who's right?
SCHWIMMER: All of my clients are right.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWIMMER: No, I don't understand why it has to be a choice. It is presented to us that it's either censorship or piracy. I don't understand why we can't have trusted e-commerce where you know what you're buying, and at the same time, we have freedom of expression. So, I think both sides are being a little bit -- they're exaggerating, for now.
ANDERSON: Jimmy Wales's blackout is for 24 hours. Do you see it having much impact. Certainly to the 25 million users who use Wikipedia on a daily basis. They're going to suffer. But is this sort of protest going to make much of an impact, do you think, to those making the decisions about legislation going forward?
SCHWIMMER: One of my sons 15-year-old friends was over to the house and said, "What's your position on SOPA?" And this is the first time that he's ever asked me my view on intellectual property pending legislation. So, yes, this sort of blackout is going to focus a lot of attention. It's going to shine a spotlight on something that, candidly, would have been rammed through otherwise.
So, the answer is yes. The blackout is going to focus attention. And sunlight is a disinfectant.
ANDERSON: What sort of damage does it do to President Obama when he is accused of getting into bed with Silicon Valley to the detriment of the big commercial media and mogul -- media and movie companies?
SCHWIMMER: Well, he did come out this weekend against the most egregious aspects of the legislation, although I have seen the reaction to that is that they don't believe him in view of other politics, and I'm not qualified to talk about that.
But I think that there's an opportunity for him to come up with a good and needed compromise, which he calls for.
ANDERSON: Marty, you're an expert on the subject, we thank you very much, indeed, for coming on and sorting it out for us this evening.
Ahead on CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN, breaking a chain that can lead to the most horrific of practices. Find out why one chocolate company says traceability is the key when it comes to stopping forced child labor on cocoa farms in West Africa.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All this week, CNN's Freedom Project is aiming to expose the aspects of chocolate production long-hidden from view.
The West African nation of Ivory Coast is the world's largest cocoa exporter, and despite promises to end child labor in the cocoa industry some years ago, the sweets you and I eat may still be tainted. In fact, West African cocoa farms are accused of exploiting more than 100,000 kids.
Well, the problem is big companies still don't know where much of their chocolate comes from. For example, Nestle admits it can only trace a fifth of its cocoa supply chains.
One company hoping to change all of that is Divine. Its mission is to monitor every link in that supply change. CNN's Richard Quest spoke to its managing director and asks her just how difficult it is to stay on top of what is an extremely complicated process. This is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOPHI TRANCHELL, MANAGING DIRECTOR, DIVINE CHOCOLATE: We work with a cooperative of farmers in Ghana called Kuapa Kokoo. And they only buy from their members. And so, the cocoa then goes from beans into sacks, and the sacks are marked with that village that those farmers live in and Kuapa Kokoo.
And so, the marked sacks then go on ships, which then come into Europe, and then get primary processed into cocoa butter and cocoa liquor, and then that marked cocoa butter and cocoa liquor gets sent to a chocolate factory and gets turned into chocolate that we, then, use as Divine.
So, we work directly with the farmers in Kuapa Kokoo. They own 45 percent of the company, so that's a reasonable piece of delegation. And then, because they're part of the Fair Trade system, Fair Trade comes and audits them, so Fair Trade checks that they get the money that we say they're going to get.
But they also check that they're running an orderly system, that they have a good membership database, and that they are fairly sharing out the benefits of Fair Trade.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How difficult was it to put in place that sort of traceability.
TRANCHELL: We had to get everybody to cooperate. So, we had to get the government of Ghana to cooperate, because all cocoa from Ghana is coming out Ghana origin.
We then had to work with factories that were prepared to do traceable batches, so that their -- so that we know that the beans that go in make the output that we buy.
And then we contracted with all of those people who cooperated with us to say that's what we wanted to buy. So, we only want to buy chocolate made from 100 percent Kuapa Kokoo, Fair Trade cocoa.
QUEST: I can hear some people saying, good Lord, that's an enormous amount to have to go through, and you're doing it on a relatively small scale. If you, then, take one of the truly large manufacturers, how realistic is it for them to do that sort of monitoring and traceability?
TRANCHELL: Well, the good thing about being a really major player is that you have lots of power and lots of influence and lots of resources. And you're working on a much bigger scale. So you ought to be able to actually control your supply chains. You ought to be able to make it do what you want to do.
(END VIDOTAPE)
ANDERSON: But do they? Well, the world premier of "Chocolate's Child Slaves" airs here on CNN this Friday. Make sure you tune in, 8:00 PM London time, that's 9:00 PM in Berlin. CONNECT THE WORLD will be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: A king in exile, his homeland on the brink of collapse, and his heir married to a commoner. Sounds like a play from the ancient world, doesn't it? In fact, this is a modern Greek saga and describes the life of King Constantine, whose monarchy was abolished by popular vote 38 years ago.
But with royals enjoying, well, somewhat of a resurgence in popularity around the world, could Greece's throne be resurrected? Well, in tonight's Big Interview with King Constantine and his family, Max Foster explores that very question for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cast out from Greece, maybe, but not from royal circles. King Constantine II and his family are always at the top table at regal events. They do, after all, descend from the oldest monarchy in Europe, the Danish royal family.
Queen Anne-Marie herself is the sister of Queen Margrethe of Denmark, who's just celebrated her 40th year on the throne.
FOSTER (on camera): Now, when Margrethe came to throne, she had a 40 percent approval rating. She's now got an 80 percent approval rating. Why is that? What's she doing right?
QUEEN ANNE-MARIE, EXILED QUEEN OF GREECE: I admire her tremendously. I think she's an extraordinary person. She's highly intelligent. And she just has go that right feel of how to deal with everything and how to express herself.
I think she's got the artistic side of her, which I think gives a completely different facet to everything she does. And she's very spontaneous, as well. And my father taught her a lot.
FOSTER: King Constantine, how would you say the Danish monarchy has managed to get it right. Why are they so popular?
KING CONSTANTINE, EXILED KING OF GREECE: The constitutional monarchy in Denmark has been there for many, many years. So, they have a tradition in that. And secondly, they know how to evolve, and they evolve with their people, and it's accepted by the Danish people to see that their monarchy is evolving with them. And that's kept the stability.
FOSTER: A lot of people have described her as a mother to the Danish people. And what is -- can you describe the relationship?
KING CONSTANTINE: I think its absolutely true. And I think they're delighted to have a figure like that who symbolizes the unity of the country without getting involved in any controversial issues.
FOSTER (voice-over): The scenes of unity on Danish streets, so different from what we've seen recently in Greece, a country Constantine and his family fled after a 1967 coup. The monarchy was abolished in 1974, and though the family has long lived in exile, they keep a close eye on events back home.
FOSTER (on camera): Crown Prince, what are you making of what's going on in Greece right now?
PRINCE PAVLOS, EXILED CROWN PRINCE OF GREECE: I think the government is doing its best to keep ourselves on track. I think the problems really go way back into the past. And at the moment, what they're doing is --
(AUDIO GAP)
PRINCE PAVLOS: -- they can to try and get ourselves to the next step. It's extremely hard, and they are very, very challenged at this point in time.
Our thoughts are really with the people themselves, who are the ones who are suffering the most, and we can only do what we can to help, if we can with international communities and so forth, but beyond that, they -- they're trying their best to get it right.
FOSTER: Is there an argument for saying Greece should reinstate its monarchy based on what we've seen this weekend here in --
KING CONSTANTINE: I doubt that that's an argument, because you have to understand that monarchies all around the world, which is a Greek word, is a constitutional monarchy, not the monarchy on its own.
And secondly, the Greek people took their decision. It's a long history why and this and that. At some point, I think that I'll write about it, and people will understand what it's all about and why it happened. But that's the way it's gone.
But it's not on my agenda or anybody else's agenda to reinstate it or -- that's for the people.
FOSTER (voice-over): And it appears there is growing sentiment for the royal family in Greece. These days, they're allowed in the country and often grace the pages of Greek glossies. Crown Prince Pavlos and his wife, Marie-Chantal, are particularly popular. Their glamorous match was among the first so-called fairytale weddings, that is between a royal and a commoner.
FOSTER (on camera): Crown Princess, yourself, Princess Mary, the Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Daniel in Sweden, you've all come from outside the monarchy. And that's something that's different about that generation, isn't it? Do -- what do you think as a group you've brought to modern monarchy?
PRINCESS MARIE-CHANTAL, EXILED PRINCESS OF GREECE: Well, I think Crown Princess Mary has brought a lot to the table. She's useful, dynamic, she's very real. And I think that's what people want to see today is the realness and real love affairs, real family life. It's -- I think that's very important. People, they fell a sense of connectivity there.
FOSTER: Queen Margrethe's talked about how it's been a great benefit that she's from outside the country, and it's amazing how Danes have taken her on in that way, isn't it? And what -- why do you think Danes are taken to her so well?
PRINCESS MARIE-CHANTAL: She's a very personable person. She's very approachable and she's -- she's very generous and real, and I think you -- it's seen in everything that she does.
There's no -- there's no falseness about her. She's not acting. She's really living it day by day, and it's wonderful, because that's what we want to see, that's what people want to see, is someone who's -- who really takes on role with grace and ease and realness, I think.
FOSTER: Is there a big shift in royalty between these two generations?
QUEEN ANNE-MARIE: A big shift? I wouldn't say there's a big shift. Every -- every era has its differences from others, and I think when you marry, you marry for love. And if you have found somebody outside the royal family and you fall in love with that person, that's who you will marry, providing they are -- sort of popper people, obviously.
And I think everybody, including my son, has done just that, and I think they've chosen so well. And they've thought about it. Nobody's rushed into anything. They've thought about what they're doing, and I think -- I think all the younger generation have got fantastic education as well, and maybe have also waited to get married a little longer than we did, although we're a huge success.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(AUDIO GAP)
ANDERSON: -- voice on Twitter, Phil Han explains all.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL HAN, CNN DIGITAL PRODUCER: Talk about giving power to the people, Sweden has handed the reins of the country's official Twitter account to its citizens, creating the world's most democratic account.
Every week, one social media-savvy Swede has full control of @Sweden and the freedom to tweet and share whatever they want.
MARIA ZIV, MARKETING DIRECTOR, VISIT SWEDEN: The idea is that we actually completely let them tweet, and tweet from their perspective. So, we don't want to censor it at all. We want them to be able to freely speak and tweet as they normally do.
HAN: Some of the tweeters so far have included a priest, a Bosnian immigrant, and one of the most notable, a 21-year-old sheep farmer.
(SHEEP BAA)
HAN: Adam Arnesson became a global hit online, tweeting photos and videos of his fluffy lambs. Some of his tweets included "Being a farmer is such hard work, cuddling lambs all day." And "Eating lamb from your own farm with a nice glass of red wine."
ADAM ARNESSON, SWEDISH TWEETER: It shows lots of other sides of Sweden and that's the whole idea of this. Shows ordinary people's lives in Sweden.
HAN: You must apply if you want the power to tweet for a week. At the moment, it's only open to Swedish citizens, but in the future, it could be open to everyone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Phil Han, reporting there. I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT the WORLD here on CNN. Thanks for watching. The world news headlines and "BackStory" are up next after this short break. Don't go away.
END
