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Connect the World
Torture in Syria; Barack Obama and David Cameron Call for Fast Transition in Syria; Bus Accident in Switzerland; Congo Warlord Thomas Lubanga Convicted in International Criminal Court; Angelina Jolie at Hague for Verdict; Joseph Kony Claims He's a Freedom Fighter; Filmmaker Who Interviewed Joseph Kony Talks About Infamous Warlord; Big Interview: Yasser Arafat's Widow Suha Arafat and Filmmakers Behind Documentary "The Price of Kings"; Encyclopedia Ends Print Edition; Paper Vs. Wireless
Aired March 14, 2012 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Tonight on CONNECT THE WORLD, the terrifying truth in Syria -- the barbaric acts of torture that those fighting for their freedom have been forced to endure.
ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: Difficult as we might find these images to watch, what is equally as difficult to stomach is why we can't seem to plot this happening. Tonight, what the leaders of the U.S. and the U.K. say should happen next in Syria.
Also this hour, as the International Criminal Court convicts a Congolese warlord, I'll speak to the only filmmaker to secure an interview with the ICC's biggest target. Joseph Kony.
And in an era of stalled Middle East peace, Yasser Arafat's widow on why she believes she could pick up where her husband left off.
Electric shocks, savage beatings, sexual violence -- we're going to begin with what is being called the nightmarish world of systematic torture in Syria. On the eve of what is the first anniversary of the uprising against Bashar al-Assad, Amnesty International warns the scale of torture in the country has risen to a level not seen for years.
It says civilian detainees are routinely subjected to abuse that amounts to crimes against humanity.
Now, what we are about to show you tonight this hour is video that you may find objectionable and highly upsetting. We think it's important to understand why many Syrians are desperate for a regime that respects human rights.
As Arwa Damon reports, charges that Syria uses extreme techniques have been around since long before this recent fighting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is one of many videos posted to YouTube since the uprising against the Syrian government began. It identifies the victim as Rual al-Hamad (ph) from Homs being beaten by men in military uniform. CNN cannot independently verify the video, but it's clear al-Hamad (ph) is crying out in pain.
Smiling, the man crouched at his head shouts, "This is an infiltrator."
Despite Al-Hamad's (ph) pleas, the beating doesn't stop.
"Should we shoot him and waste a bullet?," someone taunts?
Then he's forced to declare, "With my blood and my soul, I will fight for you, Bashar."
"Liar," they say.
"No, I mean it," he implores.
It seems that they were not convinced.
"These are traces of torture on his body," a voice narrates. Al-Hamad (ph), it would appear, was beaten to death.
Torture at the hands of Syria's government has been happening for decades.
"Have you ever heard of someone coming back from hell and talking about it? We did. We are telling you about hell," Ali (ph) says at this therapy session in Beirut.
These men say they were all detained by Syrian forces during Syria's 30 year occupation of its smaller neighbor, jailed in Syria anywhere from five to 15 years.
ALI ABU DEHN, FORMER PRISONER: Lately we have seen what's happening in Syria. And what we have seen, the same way they are beating the people, torturing the people in the street...that's was happening to us the same in the prison.
DAMON: It's an experience he and the others here are just beginning to talk about.
Ali pulls up his pant leg showing his scars. He says they are from beatings with a stick embedded with nails.
Moussa (ph), sitting across the room, has a cyst-sized hole in his calf.
"They had an electric cable," he says, "with a wire sticking out. Each time they would whip it around, it would rip out chunks of my flesh."
Helping these men confront their trauma is psychoanalyst Reina Sarkis. She established this group therapy program with Omam (ph), a Lebanese NGO, the first of its kind in the region to help torture victims.
Even with Sarkis' 15 years of experience, what she's hearing is incomprehensible.
REINA SARKIS, PSYCHOANALYST: The things they say are unimaginable. And it's unspeakable. The truths they tell you are unspeakable. And you wouldn't imagine that one day you will hear of such atrocities that the human mind is capable of coming out of imagining, of inventing such means of torture to inflict on another human being. And this happened for real.
DAMON: The Internet now brings the horror of torture into the homes of people worldwide. There are countless videos, which CNN cannot independently verify, alleging to show Syrian security forces' brutality. Bodies like Amid Zelis (ph), returned to families bearing signs of torture.
This video recently emerged, said to be shot in the military hospital in Homs. It appears to show detainees chained to their beds.
This is a clip from the hospital morgue. The voice narrates, "He came into the hospital with a gunshot wound to the leg and then was tortured."
These images give Ali intense flashbacks. He says the same happened to them -- chained when they needed medical treatment, surgeries with no anesthetic.
Five years ago, they made their own video to show what they say they've endured.
This technique is dubbed El Dulab (ph), meaning "the tire." The victim is beaten across the souls of his feet, in some cases, electrocuted; in some cases, even sodomized.
SARKIS: They were in a place where it was, in many ways, a machine to break down human beings. So the torture was not only physical.
DAMON: This clip demonstrates how Ali and the other former detainees say they were strung up from the ceiling, beaten and left hanging for hours, if not days.
SARKIS: I mean these people were tortured and destroyed. These men were destroyed physically, emotionally, mentally. Their morale, their character, they really -- they really worked hard, and in a very methodical way, to turn them into dust, in fact, to pulverize them.
DAMON: Despite every new report on torture, despite every new and apparently real video on the Internet, and despite all the publicity, this is still going on.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ANDERSON: Arwa Damon reporting there.
And to be clear, there have been accusations of torture on both sides of this uprising.
But let's be frank, that doesn't make these image that you see any easier to watch, does it?
The Amnesty report urges the world to help protect human rights in Syria.
In a moment, we're going to get to Washington for you, where we're going to speak to Jessica Yellin to see what U.S. President Barack Obama and the British prime minister, David Cameron, who is visiting there, had to say about Syria today.
First though, let's get more from Arwa Damon.
She's in Beirut tonight.
They're monitoring what is going on in Syria -- I mean the -- the piece speaks for itself, Arwa.
What do you know about what's happening today in Syria?
DAMON: Well, it seems, at this stage, as if the government is concentrating its offensive on the province of Idlib. And speaking of torture, one of the activist networks is saying that a torture/detention center was, in fact, set up in Idlib Province, as well, and that dozens of people are being held in it.
The province was, up until recently, by and large under the control of the Free Syrian Army, although there were clashes. There was then pretty intense fighting in provincial capital, the city of Idlib itself over the last few days.
The Free Syrian Army now saying that it was forced to withdraw, that this was a deliberate withdrawal. But they also said that they were outgunned and outmanned. They quite simply don't have enough ammunition to sustain the level of fighting that they are being confronted with.
There are various allegations that Syrian soldiers are raping women, are continuing to indiscriminately target families who are trying to flee, great concerns for a number of villages right along the Turkish border, because they believe that government forces are going to be barreling down on them.
The Syrian government, of course, is continuing to maintain that it is quite simply targeting these armed terrorist gangs that are intent on bringing down the regime -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Arwa Damon for you in Beirut.
Arwa, thank you for that.
Let's bring back chief White House correspondent, Jessica Yellin, now, out of Washington to you -- Washington for you this evening -- Jessica, both Barack Obama and David Cameron called for a fast transition in Syria today.
What's new in what they said?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the two leaders presented a united front, Becky. But if you're looking for any news of the military intervention, the there was none here. The two were united in insisting that both nations will continue to press for more pressure and ongoing pressure, which they believe will eventually force Bashar al-Assad from power. So that's not new.
In fact, the president reiterated the message that we keep hearing from the White House that this ongoing pressure will eventually force Assad out.
Here's the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Assad will leave power. It's not a question of if, but when. And to prepare for that day, we'll continue to support plans for a transition to support the legitimate aspirations of the Syrian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: If you're looking for any difference between the two, again, the policy is the same, but Prime Minister Cameron used stronger language and had much more dire warnings for the regime if Assad doesn't go.
Here is what Cameron had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We'll give our support to Kofi Anan as he makes the case for that transition. And we are ready to work with Russia and China for the same goal, including through a new United Nations Security Council resolution.
But we should be clear, what we want is the quickest way to stop the killing. That is through transition rather than revolution or civil war. But if Assad continues, then civil war or revolution is the inevitable consequence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: And the prime minister also said that the world must document war crimes in Syria because the international community will hold those for -- responsible for the crimes accountable eventually, no matter how long it takes.
And he vowed and pledged another -- another two million pounds in aid to Syria for humanitarian relief -- Becky.
ANDERSON: That's the diplomatic story out of Washington.
Jessica, thank you for that.
And, indeed, the story on the ground from Arwa Damon.
Arwa, as ever, always a pleasure.
Thank you.
Our top story tonight, atrocities keep making headlines in Syria and yet one year -- one year into this uprising, the world is still unable to convince Bashar al-Assad to step aside. Well, tomorrow this hour, we're going to have special coverage of the first anniversary of this crisis. We're going to chart how it all began and discuss what it might finally take for peace to return to Syria.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from London.
I'm Becky Anderson for you.
Still to come this hour, every parent's nightmare -- an horrific bus accident in Switzerland takes an enormous toll. What investigators know so far.
And Joseph Kony has been wanted for crimes against humanity for years. I'm going to talk to the first reporter who actually got close to the elusive warlord.
And closing the book on "The Encyclopedia Britannica" -- what's next for the once renowned source of information?
That and more after this short break.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN.
This is CONNECT THE WORLD.
It is 16 minutes past nine in London.
I'm Becky Anderson.
Welcome back.
Now, there are no answers for the devastated parents whose kids were killed in a bus crash in Switzerland. Investigators are trying to determine what made the bus, returning from a ski trip, swerve into a highway tunnel.
Our reporter, Diana Magnay, now on what is an unfolding tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All night, rescue workers struggled to save those trapped in the mangled wreckage and to remove the bodies of the dead. Ahead of the rescue operation, saying the 200 police, fire and ambulance personnel working at the crash were devastated by what they had seen. Eight helicopters carrying survivors overnight to nearby hospitals. In the morning, final clarification of a terrible death toll.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY REUTERS)
CHRISTIAN VARONE, SWISS POLICE COMMANDER (through translator): There are now, unfortunately, 28 dead. Of the 28, there were 22 who were around 12 years of age. There were six adults with the two drivers of the bus included.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAGNAY: It's not clear why exactly the coach crashed headlong into the wall of a motorway tunnel. It was just after 9:00 p.m. on Tuesday night. The weather was clear. No other vehicles were involved. And police say the coach was traveling within the speed limit.
On board, two Flemish school groups en route home from a skiing holiday in nearby Val d'Anniviers, mostly Dutch and Belgian children aged 11 and 12 years old.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY REUTERS)
OLIVER ELSIG, TOWN PROSECUTOR: All the kids were wearing their safety belts, so the impact of the crash must have been so violent, because everything, the safety belts, the seats, everything that was in the rear of the car was catapulted to the front.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MAGNAY: A Belgian delegation headed by the prime minister and the Swiss president visited the site later Wednesday, on a day described by Belgium's leader as a tragedy for his country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY REUTERS)
ELIO DI RUPO, BELGIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We are all in shock. The king, the queen and myself have briefly met the families at the airport of Melsbroek to express support.
MAGNAY: Family members have arrived in Switzerland on a government chartered plane to see their injured relatives, to help with the identification of the dead.
Diana Magnay, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ANDERSON: A look now at some of the other stories connecting our world tonight.
And as the U.S. Defense secretary was landing in Afghanistan on Wednesday, a stolen vehicle drove onto the runway at Camp Bastion in Helmand Province and crashed into a ditch. A Pentagon spokesman says a service member was injured and the suspect is being treated for burns.
Well, Leon Panetta told U.S. troops they must learn from a series of crises there and not repeat them. He called the recent burnings of Korans, the ensuing riots and Sunday's shooting rampage that left 16 Afghan civilians dead deeply troubling.
The U.S. soldier detained in the shootings has now been transferred out of Afghanistan.
Well, the U.S. president says the window for a diplomatic solution to Iran's nuclear program is shrinking. Barack Obama is urging Tehran to seize the opportunity for talks. The international community suspects Tehran is trying to build nuclear weapons.
Well, in an interview with Christiane Amanpour, a top adviser to Iran's supreme leader emphasized the importance of negotiations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED LARIJANI, IRANIAN POLITICIAN: We should put a lot of effort to make it a success. For the first time, Iran made a proposal, which is very pragmatic. It said let us work together, a bit from you, a bit from us.
So the whole art in here is to define a bit from us, a bit from the other side. I think this is fantastic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We'll have much more of that interview in tomorrow's programming, including what Iran will give and what it wants to receive in these nuclear negotiations.
An election campaign speech by Myanmar's opposition leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, has been aired on state television for the first time. She said one paragraph of her speech was censored, but she was allowed to broadcast her calls for press freedom and a greater rule of law.
The broadcast is the result of a number of reforms made by the government there. The country going to polls next month.
Hollywood actor and human rights campaigner, George Clooney, says there is a campaign of murder happening in Sudan. The star testified before U.S. lawmakers after traveling to the region. In that interview, he said he saw the same signs of violence that were present at the beginning of the genocide in Darfur.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: These are war crimes. When you are indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians, you are committing war crimes. And that is what they're doing. It's a cowardly act.
ANDERSON: George Clooney on Sudan.
Well, England's last hope in Europe -- Chelsea looks to stay alive in the Champions League. Alex Thomas is going to have more on that and the rest of your sports headlines after this short break.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from London.
Welcome back.
I'm Becky Anderson for you.
Now, Chelsea are, as we speak, in action against Napoli in the European Champions League. Blues, the last Premier club, English Premier club, left in the competition. And if they go out, there will be no English teams in the Champions League quarterfinals. And that would be the first time since 1996.
So, 15 years ago would have been the last time. My goodness.
Are we going to make it?
ALEX THOMAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I -- I waffled last time and you told -- said I just want to know the scores.
ANDERSON: Right.
THOMAS: The score is, as of a few seconds ago, unless it's changed since I walked into the studio, 3-1 for Chelsea.
ANDERSON: Which means?
THOMAS: Which is exactly the same score as the first leg.
ANDERSON: Wow!
THOMAS: They're completely level, on away goals, on aggregate score and everything. The first one is heading for 30 minutes of extra time, possibly that sudden death penalty shoot-out that football fans always dread.
ANDERSON: Let's remind people. So if Chelsea score another one, but Napoli score another one, it's Naples' game, yes?
THOMAS: Yes.
ANDERSON: Right.
THOMAS: The Italian club will go through.
ANDERSON: It's the way it was. Right. OK.
THOMAS: So at the moment, level playing. Another goal with Chelsea, that will go through, but another goal for each side and it -- it's aptly to go through to -- to the last day.
And there's some great teams already in the quarterfinals. And even if no English teams make it, you've got the likes of Real Madrid, who are currently 3-1 up on CSKA Moscow and -- and cruising it. Barcelona already there. AC Milan already there. I mean Bayern Munich already there. Four of the most successful clubs, bar Liverpool, have also won five trophies.
So it's looking (INAUDIBLE).
But for Chelsea, it's interesting that you've got this core of older players who previous manager, Andre Villas-Boas, dropped...
ANDERSON: Yes.
THOMAS: -- and, you know, we saw a video drop for tonight they scored the opening goal and Captain John Terry, the second; Frank Lampard from the penalties. You've got all these players who wouldn't perform at their best under Villas-Boas suddenly back into (INAUDIBLE)...
ANDERSON: Big game, big guns, you'd understand why the -- the standing coaches do that, wouldn't you?
THOMAS: Yes, well...
ANDERSON: Six minutes to go, a 401 aggregate.
THOMAS: Yes.
ANDERSON: Right now.
THOMAS: And Roberto Di Matteo has been on there before. He's a Chelsea player from the 1990s. He's putting his faith in the players he trusts.
ANDERSON: Jeremy Lin's coach has resigned, switching to basketball.
What's that all about?
THOMAS: Yes. And I'm not sure we can blame it on -- on poor young Jeremy Lin, the -- the young star that -- that shot to global fame in just a matter of weeks.
Now, but the New York Knicks have lost six games in a row in the NBA. They're clinging on. I think they're joint last in terms of the playoff positions, so they really need to have a good run-in toward the end of the regular season to make those playoffs and have a chance of going on to win the NBA championship.
But Mike D'Antoni has agreed to stand down after a meeting, it's reported, with the chairman of the team.
ANDERSON: So do you regret not coining, but adopting the phrase Linsanity, which you used until it wore out?
THOMAS: Well, I mean...
ANDERSON: (INAUDIBLE).
THOMAS: -- poor old Jeremy Lin is under the spotlight, as well...
ANDERSON: Yes.
THOMAS: -- because, you know, why is it that the team is not performing now?
ANDERSON: Yes.
THOMAS: And we can compare it a bit like for the football, you know. Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony...
ANDERSON: Sure.
THOMAS: -- these big stars have come back in.
Are they playing as well alongside Jeremy Lin?
ANDERSON: Yes. Fascinating stuff.
All right, I know you've got a -- an interview with David Beckham coming up in about an hour's time on "WORLD SPORT".
Alex for you in the house tonight with that.
Stay with CNN.
Still to come this half hour on CONNECT THE WORLD, this man is still at large. And I've been talking to the first reporter who managed to meet him. The hunt for Joseph Kony on a day that brought some justice for Africa's child soldiers.
Also, a behind the scenes look at Yasser Arafat. In a rare interview, I speak to the widow of the former Palestinian leader.
And is this the future of the encyclopedic knowledge?
Britannica certainly thinks so.
That coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: A very warm welcome to our viewers across Europe and around the world. I'm Becky Anderson. These are the latest world news headlines from CNN.
Investigators are searching for the cause of a bus crash that killed 22 children and 6 adults in Switzerland. The bus was returning to Belgium from a ski trip when it slammed into the side of a highway tunnel. Officials say initial indications are the bus was not speeding and road conditions there were good.
Opposition activists say at least 56 people were killed across Syria today, many of them in Idlib, a former rebel stronghold recently seized by government forces. Activists say only pockets of resistance remain in the city.
The US soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians in a shooting rampage last weekend has been transferred out of the country. NATO command says the still identified -- unidentified army staff sergeant was moved to an undisclosed location while awaiting charges.
History was made at the Hague today where the International Criminal Court convicted this man, Thomas Lubanga, for turning children into killers in the Democratic Republic of Congo. It is the first-ever verdict by the war crimes tribunal set up ten years ago. Human rights groups are hailing this as a milestone.
Wednesday's guilty verdict comes at a poignant time in the campaign to arrest others who use child -- young kids in their armies, like Lubanga. Joesph Kony has been indicted by the ICC. He is the Ugandan warlord accused of using kids to kill and mutilate his enemies across four African countries.
Well, a film documenting the brutality of his rebel army has been viewed online by tens of millions of people around the world. Now, the goal of the video by the group Invisible Children is to have Kony in police custody by the end of the year.
Let's get to the Hague, now, where my colleague, Zain Verjee, has been covering the case against the Congolese warlord, Thomas Lubanga. Zain, does Lubanga plan to appeal today's verdict?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He has the opportunity, Becky, to appeal, within 30 days, he can do that. Even though the verdict came down, the sentencing is actually going to happen within a few more weeks, and he could face a sentence of life in detention.
But this is a man who was a former Congolese militia leader, he was responsible for the coordination, the logistics, as well as the recruitment and putting young children under the age of 15 into training camps, and then engaging them in fighting, hostilities, basically turning them into killing machines.
This was a big fight over an area that he wanted to get control over, Becky, in the Democratic Republic of Congo. It's called the Ituri region, and why did he want control? Like many other militia groups did, because it's very mineral rich. There was a lot -- and is a lot -- of gold in that area.
The verdict came down, though. He was guilty. This is how the judge put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADRIAN FULFORD, JUDGE, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT: The chamber has reached its decision unanimously. The chamber concludes that the prosecution has proved beyond reasonable doubt that Mr. Thomas Lubanga Dyilo is guilty of the crimes of conscripting and enlisting children under the age of 15 years into the FBLC and using them to participate actively in hostilities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: In the public gallery behind me at the International Criminal Court, there were diplomats, there were dignitaries. There was also Hollywood royalty. Angelina Jolie was here. She took a trip from Los Angeles to be here for this day, for this moment, to watch the verdict.
She's been really involved, Becky, in a lot of awareness-raising and really trying to put the spotlight on the issue of child soldiers. Listen to what she had to say when the verdict came down. She talked about the witnesses and how they feel vindicated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELINA JOLIE, ACTRESS/HUMANITARIAN: The most important thing, this is a very young court, it's a very new court. This particular case was about the conscription of child soldiers, and so many witnesses, over 60 people came in, young people came in and spoke about what happened to them.
And because they were unable to have a court proceeding in their country, they asked for it to happen here. And so, they asked for this, the victims asked for this, the country asked for this. And this is their day where these children will feel that there was no impunity for what happened to them and what they suffered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: The verdict today just a few hours ago, Becky, was an important and significant signal to the entire world that using child soldiers is a war crime. That's the message the International Criminal Court wanted to send. For the ICC, for justice, for accountability, today was a big win. Becky?
ANDERSON: Yes. Zain, thank you for that. Zain Verjee there at the Hague.
Well, human rights groups say this -- ICC's historic verdict sends a strong warning to other warlords, as Zain was suggesting, such as Uganda's Joesph Kony.
Now, documentary filmmaker Sam Farmar is the first reporter ever to interview the elusive leader of the Lord's Resistance Army. In a moment, I'm going to bring you my conversation with Sam. First, though, here's what Kony, who was charged with war crimes by the ICC in 2005, had to say for himself in a clip from this documentary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH KONY, UGANDAN WARLORD: I'm a freedom fighter. We're fighting for freedom in Uganda. But I'm not a terrorist. I have not abducted anybody there. Some civilians, they are there to volunteer themselves to come and join me so that we stay together to protect their life.
We want the people of Uganda to be free, and we are fighting for democracy. We want people to be in a total democracy, free. We should be free to elect our -- to select our leaders -- to elect our leader.
SAM FARMAR, DOCUMENATARY MAKER (voice-over): Joseph Kony and four of his most senior commanders are the first people to have arrest warrants issued by the International Criminal Court. Kony alone is accused of 33 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
KONY: I'm not guilty. I'm not guilty. I'm not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: All right. Well, a short time ago, I talked to Sam Farmar, the filmmaker there, via Skype to get his take on what Kony is really like. I started by asking just how tough it was to get an interview with the ICC's most wanted man. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FARMAR: Well, I wanted to interview Joseph Kony from the age of 18. I spent three months in a refugee camp in Northern Uganda, and Kony's troops attacked that camp while I was there. And although I wasn't hurt, I got a real sense of the fear that he puts into people.
And so, it was ten years later that I set aside a year to really just try and track him down. And it wasn't really a very difficult process in one sense. It was just perseverance.
And I joined forces with a researcher in London, as well, and we just talked to one person, then talked to another person, and slowly but surely, we started speaking to Vincent Otti, his number two. And then we got the invite to --
ANDERSON: All right.
FARMAR: -- come to Nairobi, where we met two LRA commanders in Nairobi airport, the capital of Kenya. We flew up to South Sudan, Juba, and then we made our way over three days into the Congolese jungle, where we met him.
ANDERSON: And what did you learn? How would you describe Joseph Kony, the man you met?
FARMAR: Well, it was quite disconcerting because this is a man who is accused of killing 10,000 people, he's abducted 30,000 children. And yet, when I met him, he was very relaxed, he was very jovial. He called me by my first name.
We sat down in a jungle clearing on plastic chairs and he offered me a mandazi, a local doughnut, and we chatted away.
ANDERSON: You must have put these accusations to him, that he is responsible for crimes against humanity, atrocities which puts him at the top of the ICC's list of most wanted. Why do you think it is that he hasn't been caught yet? And where do you think he is now?
FARMAR: Well, he's 53 years old now. When I met him, it was six years ago. He -- he looks very young, and yet he's spent almost all of his life in the jungle. He has very little stuff with him. He doesn't have -- he just has a gun. He doesn't have a rucksack, he doesn't have a tent, he sleeps on the floor. He's always on the move. And it's very difficult to know where he is.
I think something that people keep missing, though, is that this is an army that had probably 50 satellite phones. Satellite phones emit a GPS location, and it should be quite easy to track down at least the people using his phones. I doubt that Kony, Joseph Kony will be using mobile phones and satellite phones at the moment. But his people will be.
So, I think that if that -- that might be a line of inquiry that the US government, the Sudanese government, and the Ugandan government might want to pursue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: The only man to have interviewed Kony while he's been on the run. Fascinating stuff.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN. Still to come --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUHA ARAFAT, YASSER ARAFAT'S WIDOW: Yasser Arafat was -- the conscience was the Mandela of the Arab world, the Mandela of Palestine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Eight years after his death, Yasser Arafat's wife opens up about life with a revolutionary. We're going to hear what she has to say, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Despite an apparent truce, some more air strikes hit Gaza early on Wednesday in what has become days of tit-for-tat violence between the Israeli military and Palestinian militants. Well, the latest violence in the region erupted last week after Israel targeted a vehicle carrying a Palestinian militant leader, saying he was planning a terrorist attack on Israel.
Well, the latest fighting has again put the spotlight on the divisions in the Palestinian movement itself. Hamas, which governs Gaza, of course, has said it's trying to bring an end to the bloodshed. But other factions have rejected an end to the hostilities, vowing to retaliate for the latest loss of Palestinian lives.
In tonight's Big Interview, Yasser Arafat's widow tells me that this factional infighting would not exist if the former Palestinian leader was still alive. Suha Arafat was in London for what is the premier of a new documentary on her late husband, "The Price of Kings."
I sat down with Suha and the filmmaker to talk about Arafat's leadership and began with claims that he was assassinated, poisoned, while under siege in Ramallah.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - "THE PRICE OF KINGS: YASSER ARAFAT")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why there wasn't an autopsy? For a simple reason. Given that hope would have meant an end to all the peace process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Would you have wanted a full autopsy done on his body, though?
ARAFAT: Yes. But this was the decision of the Palestinian Authority, and I respected their decision. Maybe Yasser died with his secrets with him. Nobody can reveal, nobody can know the truth now.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Yasser Arafat is the subject of the first in a new documentary series on world leaders called "The Price of Kings." For the first time since the Palestinian leader's death in 2004, his wife, Suha, agreed to appear on camera for the film.
ANDERSON (on camera): Why, Suha, after all this time, did you decide to speak?
ARAFAT: Because of the injustices that was exerted against my husband and myself all this time. This has made me speak out -- what's happened. Especially the last days of Yasser, the last all -- you know?
After 85, Yasser and myself were portrayed as devils, and I was portrayed as very, very -- the Marie Antoinette of the Arab world.
ANDERSON: What do we learn about Yasser Arafat in this documentary?
RICHARD SYMONS, FILMMAKER, "THE PRICE OF KINGS": I hope that the -- that the film shows an unseen side of Arafat's leadership and challenges the way that, perhaps, the West, most of us -- certainly the way I was brought up to see Arafat's leadership. I think it strongly challenges those perceptions.
JOANNA NATASEGARA: And what we found was emotional accounts behind the history. Understanding how Arafat was really feeling when Rubin was assassinated. How Arafat was feeling when his daughter was wrapped in a bulletproof vest. How -- those things are things we don't hear in news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - "THE PRICE OF KINGS")
ARAFAT: And before he came to the hospital, there was a threat on the telephone, a bomb threat. So, the security had to move me and baby Zahwa with a bulletproof -- chilly, you know?
SYMONS: Vest.
ARAFAT: Yes. With a vest to another section in order to protect us. It was so much difficult, you can't imagine. And my husband, it was so much fused, I can't say -- "I can't imagine, my baby is one day only, and she's been already threatened? What's -- what future is going to be for our children, not only for my baby?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Was he a terrorist?
ARAFAT: No. I thought it would not have ever taken the Nobel Peace Prize. There is this -- difference between freedom fighter and a terrorist. My husband has never been a terrorist. He is a freedom fighter.
ANDERSON: Suha, I wonder whether it then was a case of your husband being unable to control the fractions or being unwilling to control them that gave the sense of this man as a terrorist in the end.
ARAFAT: Look, now, what's going on. There's this split between Gaza and the West Bank, Fatah and Hamas. If Yasser was alive, this split between Fatah and Hamas would have never been -- would never exist.
ANDERSON: Did he have a conscience?
ARAFAT: Of course he had a conscience. Yasser Arafat was -- the conscience was the Mandela of the Arab world, the Mandela of Palestine.
ANDERSON: How do you all feel about the peace process now, and would you, for example, go into politics?
ARAFAT: Not now. I've been saying that maybe after Zahwa gets married and I will be -- she will be OK that I might go into politics because Yasser Arafat has to have a contribution. And I lived 20 years with this man, I know how he works and how he can get with his charm and personality all the people around him, all the fractions, all the Arab world, actually.
And now, when I see the Arab Spring and how the people are getting rid of their leaders, like we are witnessing in Syria, we are witnessing in Egypt and in Tunisia, in Yemen, all over, and how still now, the Palestinian people cry for the loss of Arafat, the democracy that Arafat supports in spite of occupation.
He was a great leader, and he was the only one who was respected and loved, truly, by his people.
ANDERSON: I wonder, Suha, finally, what you believe the price was that he paid for his cause.
ARAFAT: He paid his life. Even if he was not poisoned, he paid his life. He did not see his daughter. He told us to go out because he did not want us to stay in Palestine, he said, "I will want -- I don't want to be protected by a woman and a child. They would say I'm a coward, and I'm protecting myself with my daughter."
Everybody was saying, "She left him." I had to leave him because he obliged me to leave him because he said, "I am now -- I'm becoming the new revolutionary again."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - "THE PRICE OF KINGS")
YASSER ARAFAT, PALESTINIAN LEADER: Peace is not only signing agreements. Peace is creating facts and realities on the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: The rare words of Suha Arafat, there, speaking with the directors of that film, "The Price of Kings."
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN. I'm Becky Anderson. The death knell sounds for the Boffins' Bible. When we come back, Encyclopedia Britannica axes its print edition. Does this spell the beginning of the end for paper books? Coming up, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, the oldest manufacturer of encyclopedias has fallen victim to the internet age. Encyclopedia Britannica, which has been in print for over 240 years, is axing its print edition.
Now, the publisher will still be online. Ironically, Encyclopedia Britannica was one of the first publications to move into the digital age, but it's had to battle with free online rivals like, for example, Wikipedia. And in the end, the mighty tomes, well, they paid the price.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Doesn't seem that long ago that we used to use one of these if we were looking to find things out. I remember using the Encyclopedia Britannica with my mum breathing down my neck as I looked things up for my school homework.
The original Encyclopedia Britannica, the first edition, was actually published way back in 1768. Back then, 15 learned gentlemen decided that they would assimilate as much worldly information as possible in one place. And did you know that Einstein was a contributor to the Encyclopedia Britannica way back when?
These days, Encyclopedia Britannica is online. In fact, 90 percent of its revenue comes from its online and mobile sales. Eoghan works for the company. In a world of free information, why should I pay for it?
EOGHAN HUGHES, BRITANNICA UK: Because there's so much stuff out there, and it's all of varying degrees of quality. Some of it's excellent, some if it's less so. So, people come to us to go and find quality information, which we're renowned for.
ANDERSON: Do they -- who's doing the fact-checking? Who's the editor on this?
HUGHES: We have a team of editors based over in Chicago, and they take contributions from 4,000 credible contributors. Some of those are quite famous, the likes of Desmond Tutu, Bill Clinton. But they're all sourced as being experts in their fields, academics, journalists, and writers and so forth.
ANDERSON: Quick question: do you use Wikipedia?
HUGHES: Not today. And I couldn't comment.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, paper is out and digital very much in for Encyclopedia Britannica, it seems. And to a certain extent, that is true for book lovers or those amongst us who are beginning to turn off the page as it were and onto these e-books.
Well, John Abell is New York bureau chief for Wired.com, and I want to kick off, John, just with a factoid. Because in 2011 in the US, e-book sales rose 117 percent for the year, and mass market paperback book sales were down 36 percent. That certainly looks as if it's the first sign that the printed book is on its way out. Is it?
JOHN ABELL, NEW YORK BUREAU CHIEF, WIRED.COM: Well, the curve is -- the curve is inverting. We are seeing greater adoption rates for e-books. Of course, at these low numbers, 100 percent improvement isn't huge. But yes, we are definitely turning the corner, here, where the adoption of e- reading is becoming very mainstream.
ANDERSON: Yes, John, I want to read some of the comments on this from our Facebook page, facebook.com/connect if you don't know it. For example, Ben Carlin, he says, "Paper books will continue to exist alongside e- readers and tablets." This comment, there, raising what is a good point, isn't it? Does one necessarily have to win out over the other?
ABELL: No. No new medium has ever entirely killed off the previous one. We still have radio. Obviously, we don't have all the radio shows that we used to have --
ANDERSON: Sure.
ABELL: -- but we still have radio. There are certain things that are in print that can only be done well in print so far. Cookbooks are an area. Art books, that sort of thing. But for reading, for consuming novels and things like that, definitely e-books are taking off.
ANDERSON: All right, we've got some tweets, there, below us as we speak coming into @BeckyCNN. So, if you had a crystal ball, John, and I said to you, just how long and what? How long will we be reading paper and what will we be using that paper for? What will we be reading? What would you say?
ABELL: In paper? I think in terms of commercial sorts of things, publications, much less. I -- in the wild, I rarely see people with magazines, paper magazines or paper books anymore. Everyone has a SmartPhone or a tablet. So, I really don't know.
That said, newspapers are still a big business, magazines are still a big business.
ANDERSON: Sure.
ABELL: I work for a magazine company. And books are still a big business. So, it's hard to say that these things are going away anytime soon.
ANDERSON: Let's use your magazine, and finally, as an example, because I -- I read "Wired," and I know many other people do. But what sort of growth do you see in the paper magazine, as it were? And what sort of exponential growth do you see on SmartPhones and elsewhere?
ABELL: Well, I have no insider knowledge to what the numbers are. I do know, though, that the -- where the money's in the money. It's not so much in the circulation, but in what advertisers are willing to pay.
And I can tell you from my own reporting that what publishers are interested in is putting together a print and digital package and advertisers are willing to pay a lot more for that. So, it's the multiplatform thing that's going to make publishers of traditional print magazines a lot more money as we transition to a much more digital world.
ANDERSON: Yes. OK, John, thank you for that. Always a pleasure, John out of New York for you this evening.
I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD, thank you for watching. The world headlines and "BackStory" up after this short break. Don't go.
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