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Connect the World
Prince Philip Hospitalized; Assad Regime Continues Random Shelling In Aleppo; England Batsman Banned For Bad Tweets
Aired August 15, 2012 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, HOST: Live from CNN Center, Syrian war planes strike rebel towns near the Turkish border.
CNN's Ben Wedeman reports from a hospital that came under direct fire.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is Connect the World.
GORANI: Some Gulf countries are urging their citizens to get out of Lebanon immediately as violence spills across Syria's borders.
Also tonight, our royal correspondents live from Buckingham Palace on Prince Philip's latest health scare.
And a life saving measure, or government interference, the debate that Australia's tough new tobacco law is igniting.
First tonight, Syrian activists say the regime is responsible for another atrocity against civilians. They say an air strike has killed at least 30 people in the town of Azaz (ph). But the death toll could rise as people frantically search for loved ones. Activists say houses were completely flattened with women and children inside. Similar reports coming from a Reuters correspondent who visited Azaz (ph). The victims, among at least 191 people killed today alone across the country.
Ben Wedeman is in northern Syria. He sent us this report. We warn you, it has some graphic images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: 12 year old Mohammed screams out in fear and pain. Shrapnel ripped through his right leg in an air raid on the Dara Shifa (ph) hospital in Aleppo's Shar (ph) district. Three passers by, including Mohammed, were wounded in the attack.
The task of treating the wounded here harder by the day, nurse Abuse Mael (ph) tells me.
"Half of our equipment no longer works," he says.
For almost an hour, Syrian government jet bombed and strafed the area, twice striking the clearly marked hospital. Out of view, rebels fired back fruitlessly at the plane.
In an entrance way across the street from the hospital, the blood is still wet where Mohammed, wounded, took cover. Nerves still on edge at the possibility the plane will strike yet again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go in. Go in. Go in. Go in. Go in.
WEDEMAN: Anyone in the next (inaudible) entrance.
(GUNSHOTS)
WEDEMAN: Mohammed's brother, Abdul (ph), fled the emergency ward in panic after the second attack on the hospital and is afraid to go back in.
The shelling and air raids have no rhyme or reason. The rounds smash into crowded neighborhoods far from the front line.
Mohammed Rajaal (ph) was in a back room when his apartment was hit. He had sent his family away just a few days before.
"Thank god they weren't here," he says, "but what am I going to do? Where am I going to live?"
His neighbors clear away the rubble with exhausted resignation.
The random nature of the shelling and the air raids on the rebel controlled parts of Aleppo means that any building, anywhere in this part of the city could be hit at any time. In fact, this building was hit just 20 minutes ago.
For many of the residents of Aleppo, it's simply time to leave.
Some go by foot, most by car of pickup, taking the bare minimum.
"The shelling," answers Abu Ahmed when I asked why he and his family are leaving. "We don't know where it's coming from.
Their destination is what they hope is a safer part of the town. But here, no place is truly safe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Indeed. And that was Ben Wedeman reporting.
UN investigators say the Syrian government and allied militias such as the Shabiha we have been talking about so much over the last year plus, that they have committed crimes against humanity. And a UN report released today, they also accuse rebels of war crimes, but say they aren't on the scale of those carried out by the regime.
The UN's humanitarian chief says the violence has now affected some 2.5 million Syrians. Valerie Amos has been meeting with top officials in Damascus this week. And she joins me now on the line from the Syrian capital.
Thank you very much for being with us, Valerie Amos. I know you've been pressing Syrian regime members for access in order to help Syrian affected by the conflict. Have you gotten any assurances from them?
VALERIE AMOS, UNHCR: We've been talking about a number of things. The government were keen to tell me exactly what they were doing to help people who have been displaced by the violence. The concern that I have is that we're working very closely with the Syrian Arab Red Crescent. They're doing an excellent job, but of course they're reaching the limits of their capacity so we need more partners on the ground so that we can scale up our efforts and get to all the people who need help. And this is what I was discussing with the authorities.
GORANI: And what did the authorities tell you in response to your requests?
AMOS: They are very keen to make sure that the government controls the response effort. They want everything to be channeled through the Syria Arab Red Crescent. I raised with them some administrative delays that I think are hampering our response effort. The ministers I spoke to undertook to look at this very seriously indeed.
Of course, insecurity is also an issue given that there are places where it's very difficult for us to go. And the security situation is very flexible as well. So it's not always in the same place and we have to be flexible in the way that we respond.
GORANI: But if the Syrian government is saying it wants to maintain control of the humanitarian response, do you trust that they will do that just as air strikes are killing civilians as reported for instance in the town of Azaz (ph) near the Turkish border?
AMOS: I made it clear to the government as I've said many times in the public statements that I have made that the violence is having a terrible impact on ordinary people. We see it everywhere. And I visited a number of schools where people have been displaced. I'm very worried about that and the impact it will have in terms of the ability to return to education or children in September.
The important thing for me is that whoever is engaged in the violence, be they from the government side or from the opposition there is international humanitarian law, which makes it very clear that civilians should not be targeted, should not be caught up in the middle of this. It's important that the government remembers, it's important that the opposition remember this.
GORANI: And we were discussing with our viewers there that UN report before coming to you Valerie Amos that is laying clearly and squarely at the doorstep of the regime responsibility for massacres of civilians in Syria. And your freedom of movement itself limited. We saw on your Twitter page today that you tried to enter the Damascus suburb of Douma, but weren't able to do so. Have you been able beyond that to see for yourself what's going on the ground?
AMOS: Yes, I have. I was not able to go into Douma. I think -- I'd hoped to go there, but when we arrived I understand that there was fighting ongoing and I was not able to enter. I was however, able to go elsewhere and looked at the impact of the large number of people who had moved out of and had gone elsewhere and needed urgent humanitarian help. They were being assisted by the refugee -- the UN refugee agency and by the Syrian Arab Red Crescent.
So there are many places in which we're able to work. What I'm keen to do is make sure that we can increase that work, because since I was here in March, the number of people who are affected have gone up substantially.
GORANI: And I've got to ask you is that this debate continues about safe zones inside of Syria. As the humanitarian head at the United Nations, the under secretary general in terms of humanitarian affairs. Do you think this should be implemented? There should be safe zones patrolled by outside countries to allow at least for some areas of Syria to become safe havens for civilians that have suffered so much.
AMOS: The point that I have always made about this is that if you're going to have any kind of safe zone, they have to be policed externally. In the absence of any kind of security council resolution this is not possible to achieve. However, what we can try to do is to get all of those engaged in the fighting to at least have some kind of humanitarian pause which would allow people who want to leave an area where there is intense fighting to leave, which would allow us to get in and deal with the injured and bring them out. This is something that the ICRC calls for, the International Committee of the Red Cross called for some months ago. I supported them then. I would support a call for a humanitarian pause again.
GORANI: Well, and lastly I've got to ask you if you're more hopeful now than you were 24 hours ago as this news has come out of more civilian deaths in very large numbers. Almost 200 people today killed across the country. Do you have some measure of hope? And if so, where do you find it?
AMOS: I find it very hard to be hopeful right now about the overall situation. I've been in Damascus today. I've been outside (inaudible) heard shelling. There are lots of people who have been much closer to this than me, a lot of ordinary people who have been caught up in the midst of this violence. I've talked to many people over the last couple of days, all of whom say they want to violence to stop. They want to be able to go home.
I hope that those engaged and involved in this hear that message. It's very important that they do.
GORANI: Valerie Amos, the under secretary general for humanitarian affairs is in Damascus right now joining us live. Many thanks for being on CNN International.
I find it very hard to be hopeful right now, the words of Valerie Amos.
The Syrian crisis is spilling over into neighboring Lebanon. State media say Syrian owned shops in Beirut were vandalized today. And dozens of Syrians were kidnapped in reprisal attacks. That chaos has lead to three Gulf countries: Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE to urge its citizens to leave Lebanon immediately.
Nick Paton-Walsh is in Beirut to explain the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON-WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When the Saudi government, themselves a key backer of the Syrian rebel movement, told their citizens to leave Lebanon immediately, there's a complicated back story to this, but essentially there have been a number of people accused of assisting the Syrian regime in Lebanon being picked up by Syrian rebels. That escalated today when the clan of the relatives of one of these men who had been kidnapped themselves kidnapped about 20 men who they said were Syrian rebel fighters. And also a Turkish citizen. Remember, Turkey is also a key backer of the Syrian rebel movement.
That sparked massive Saudi concern and their desire to see their citizens leave here. And broader concerns amongst most people in this tiny nation that effectively it's decade of intense civil conflict, its flammable political situation now may beginning to be infected by what's been happening across the border these last 17 plus months.
Nick Paton-Walsh, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come tonight, a health scare for the queen's husband as he's taken back to hospital for the second time in a matter of months. We'll be live in Buckingham -- near Buckingham palace with the latest on Prince Philip's condition.
Also, the great Rafael Nadal pulls out of one of his favorite grand slam events, the U.S. Open. All that and much more when Connect the World continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. And this is Connect the World. I'm Hala Gorani.
Britain's Prince Philip, husband to Queen Elizabeth, was admitted to a Scottish hospital today for a recurrent bladder infection. The panelist spokesman said the 91 year old will stay for, quote, investigation and treatment of his condition and will likely remain in doctors care for several more days. The Duke originally suffered the infection back in June, you'll remember, during his wife's diamond jubilee celebration. And he missed some of the event.
With more now we're joined by our royal correspondent Max Foster who is live outside Buckingham Palace. Hi, Max.
What more do we know on Prince Philip's condition?
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he seems to be pretty stable. He's at hospital in Scotland where he was on holiday. And he's being treated. It's being investigated. He will be in hospital for some days. He's 91 years old. So they have to be particularly careful. And what's particularly worrying here, is this is a recurrence of a previous illness. And there have been a serious of health scares just over the past year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: At 91 years old, Prince Philip is far from slowing down, fulfilling countless royal commitments each year. But over the past nine months, he's had a number of health scares. He was admitted to hospital over Christmas for minor surgery to treat a blocked coronary artery. The queen and other royal family members visited him the next day. He recovered well and returned to his public duties.
But during the queen's diamond jubilee celebrations, the Duke of Edinburgh was taken to hospital again. This time a bladder infection forced him to miss several days of festivities.
Until very recently, he's appeared to be in reasonable health, joining the queen at the opening ceremony at the Olympics and watching granddaughter Zara Philips in equestrian events.
But this latest scare will add to concern in the royal household and is expected to be in hospital for several days as he was for his last infection.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: There is some concern, Hala, that he's just pushing himself too hard these days for a 91 year old appearing too much in public.
With me is Mark Saunders, royal biographer. I mean, just describe his character, Mark, because he does push himself. That's fundamental to his way, isn't it?
MARK SAUNDERS, ROYAL BIOGRAPHER: Absolutely. I mean, you said earlier he's 91 years old. He's like 30 years past what would be a retirement day. And yet he's doing a job which he obviously loves, but he just won't slow down. And he's behind the queen everywhere, every day. The queen is as active as she's ever been and the duke behind her.
But no matter what they say to him. They've asked him again and again to slow down. We thought he was going to do at the start of this year when he had his health scare back at Christmas. But he just doesn't seem to want to do it.
FOSTER: Are we going to be seeing less of him now? Is he going to get the message now that he needs to calm down, doing less. Because just on Monday we saw him on the Isle of White out looking pretty sprightly.
SAUNDERS: I think the queen herself will step in now. And she will - - I mean, virtually order him, if it's possible to order the Duke to do anything. But I saw him only a couple of weeks ago. He was out on his carriage. And 91 years of age and just does not want to slow down.
FOSTER: If he does cut back, what does that mean for the queen, her monarchy, because he's crucial to it, isn't he?
SAUNDERS: Well, we've discussed this before. This is the year when the old, to some extent, will give way to the new. I think if he cuts back, the work will be passed down to certainly Camilla and Charles, and then obviously on to William and Harry.
I think we're going to see a fundamental change in the royal family next year, which will mean far less of the duke.
FOSTER: OK. Mark Saunders, thank you very much indeed.
Hala, we are getting updates. He will be in hospital for a few days. We'll be bringing you those updates as we get them.
GORANI: OK, thanks Max Foster at Buckingham Palace.
We're going to take a short break now, but when we come back, despite being England's best batsman, one cricket is finding himself on the outside looking in. He's been banished. Details on why when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: You're watching Connect the World live from CNN Center. Welcome back. I'm Hala Gorani.
Fans of Rafael Nadal are going to have to wait a bit longer to see him in action. The Spanish world number three has today announced that he'll miss the U.S. Open in New York. So what is wrong with him? Let's bring in Don Riddell to tell us. Hi, Don.
DON RIDDELL, CNN SPORTS CORREPSONDENT: Hi there. Well, he's been suffering from knee injuries for awhile. In fact he's been plagued by knee injuries right throughout his career. But it does seem to be quite serious at the moment. We haven't seen him in action since that shock second round defeat at Wimbledon. It forced him to miss the Olympics. And of course he couldn't therefore defend his Olympic title that he won in Beijing four years ago. Now he's missing the U.S. Open.
In a way, I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to come back at the end of the season and play on hard courts, because that is the surface that really troubles his knees the most. But, you know, he's not getting any younger. I know he's only 26, but he's not getting any younger.
GORANI: Well, at this level you put so much strain on your body that of course you're going to have issues.
RIDDELL: Absolutely. And he's not...
GORANI: Not that I'd know anything about it.
RIDDELL: He's not adapted his playing style to help his body out.
GORANI: No. He has not. He's a hard player. He plays hard.
Let's talk about England's best batsman out of action for an entirely different reason.
RIDDELL: Yeah, he plays hard, but he...
GORANI: And I wouldn't know anything about that either.
RIDDELL: He plays hard, but he misbehaves hard as well. And -- I mean, this really is just an incredible story. Kevin Pietersen, one of the best batsman in the world, England's best player, he had a phenomenal innings against South Africa in the second test of hitting only last week, but he's been dropped for the third test, which by the way is England's most important match for years, because during the last game he was sending derogatory messages about his own captain to the players on the opposing team.
GORANI: Who are his friends.
RIDDELL: They are his friends.
GORANI: A bit of trash talk.
RIDDELL: A bit of trash talk.
GORANI: About the captain.
He got caught.
RIDDELL: Everybody is trying to now downplay it as, well it was just a bit of banter and it -- you know, he didn't really mean it, but of course...
GORANI: Do we know what was sent?
RIDDELL: Not very complimentary things.
So, and of course he South African players, they have now been dragged into it. And they really don't want to get involved. So those messages have now been deleted.
Pietersen was basically, you know, told by the England team can you say that you didn't send these messages? Can you promise that you haven't done this and you haven't done that. And of course he couldn't -- he couldn't say. So he just kind of went quiet on the issue.
GORANI: But did someone on the opposing team basically rat him out? I mean, how did they find these...
RIDDELL: Not officially, but word gets around.
So he's now been dropped for the game. There is now a real problem with the England team about trust and loyalty. And so that's why he's not playing now. Pietersen is desperately hoping he can at least revive his international career, so he has now belatedly come out and apologized.
It will be really interesting to see whether England pick him again. They're going to name their squad for the World 20/20 in Sri Lanka this weekend. He was the star of that tournament last time around. He hopes he'll be picked...
GORANI: So we'll know this weekend if he's picked or not.
RIDDELL: That's right.
GORANI: OK, it'll be interesting.
Thanks very much, Don Riddell.
And join us later as we speak with one of the bronze medallist of the London games and a darling of Team GB. Diver Tom Daley talks to CNN's Eric McLaughlin. And that's going to be on World Sport, Don, in about an hour from now.
RIDDELL: An hour and four minutes.
GORANI: An hour in four minutes. So we look forward to that. Thanks, Don.
All right, still to come on Connect the World, graphic pictures and no branding, a case of saving lives or restricting rights? We'll discuss Australia's new law on cigarette packaging.
And we'll head to South Africa where a row over wages has escalated into a deadly standoff. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: You are watching CNN International, welcome everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. Here are your headlines this half hour.
Syrian activists say at least 191 people were killed across the country today. That includes at least 30 people reportedly killed in a government air strike in the town of Azaz. Activists say houses were flattened with women and children inside.
And earlier in Damascus, this was the scene. A bomb exploded near a hotel used by UN observers. Rebels claimed responsibility, but they said they weren't targeting the hotel. They said they were targeting military buildings nearby. Three bystanders were hurt.
The queen of England's husband, Prince Philip, has been admitted into a hospital for the investigation and treatment of a recurrent bladder infection. A palace spokesman said he will likely remain in doctors' care for several days. It's the latest in a series of health scares for the prince. He's 91 years old. He was already hospitalized for a similar infection, and he sought treatment last Christmas for a blocked coronary artery.
A bicycle bomb exploded in a busy shopping area in Herat Afghanistan. Five people are in critical condition. At least a dozen more were injured. The attack follows an unusually bloody day on Tuesday. Dozens were killed and hundreds more wounded in a series of attack across Afghanistan.
Australia is to become the world's first country to ban all branding and logos on cigarette packs. From December 1st, tobacco products will be sold in olive green packaging with some graphic health warnings, including photos, there, of newborns and cancer in people's mouths.
The country's high court rejected a challenge by the tobacco companies that argue that the law infringed on their intellectual property rights. The attorney-general there said the ruling was a watershed moment for tobacco control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLA ROXON, AUSTRALIAN ATTORNEY-GENERAL: We are so proud that we're able to stand up today and say that we have taken on big tobacco and we have won. And this is good news for every Australian parent who worries about their child picking up an addictive and deadly habit.
All of the arguments that were presented by big tobacco in trying to convince our government not to proceed with this action, I think, have been disproved today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, we'll have a lot more on this story with someone who is for this initiative in Australia and another person who is against it. We'll have that a little bit later in the program this hour, so stay tuned.
Now, immigration authorities in the US are getting a deluge of applications today as President Obama's ambitious new policy goes into effect. The program offers illegal immigrants who entered the US as children the chance to live and work legally in the States for two years.
Immigration is, of course, a highly politicized issue in the US -- not just in the US. Opponents of the measure have blasted Mr. Obama's move. But away from the political arena, it's a new opportunity for young applicants. Rafael Romo has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR (voice-over): There are multiple forms to fill and documents to obtain.
ANNA RAMIREZ, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: I'm scared to get my hopes up.
ROMO: Anna Ramirez and her sister, Juana, are applying for deferred action. The Obama administration policy will allow some undocumented young immigrants who were brought to the United States as children to legally stay here for two years.
JUANA RAMIREZ, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: I didn't have a choice to come here. But I have done nothing bad here.
ROMO: The Ramirez sisters were toddlers when they were brought to this country by their parents. President Obama says suspending deportations for these young immigrants is the right thing to do.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a temporary stopgap measure that lets us focus our resources wisely while giving a degree of relief and hope to talented, driven, patriotic young people.
ROMO: To qualify, applicants must have entered the country before the age of 16, been in the country for at least five years, have a high school diploma or be enrolled in school, and have no criminal record. Those who served in the military are also eligible.
ROMO (on camera): According to Immigration Policy Institute, nearly 1.8 million young immigrants may be eligible for deferred action under the Obama administration policy. Those who meet the requirements will get a work permit, which would also allow them to get a driver's license.
CHARLES KUCK, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Nobody's going to get a green card out of this. Nobody's getting anything more than a promise that for the next two years, we won't deport you. But it gives hope to kids. When you give kids hope, you see great benefits in communities.
ROMO (voice-over): Opponents say the policy rewards those who broke the law. And since it's temporary, it doesn't really help anybody.
MITT ROMNEY (R), US PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because an executive order is, of course, just a short-term matter. It can be reversed by subsequent presidents.
ROMO: However, for the Ramirez sisters, coming out of the shadows means everything.
J. RAMIREZ: I went to school here, I grew up here. I don't -- my whole life is here. So I would consider myself a US citizen, but I'm not.
ROMO: They say they have great pride in their heritage, but cannot imagine going back to the country of their parents.
Rafael Romo, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Japanese police have arrested five people who landed on a group of disputed islands in the East China Sea, and nine more who were headed there. A boat carrying activists from Hong Kong, Macau, and mainland China was surrounded by Japanese Coast Guard officials as it approached the islands.
Now, these islands are claimed by both China and Japan, and both countries believe the surrounding waters may have some rich gas deposits. So, certainly an economic incentive, potentially, for control of these islands.
One of the world's top platinum producers is suspending mining operations in South Africa. Lonmin's shutdown comes after recent clashes between rival unions killed ten people. Nkepile Mabuse has been following developments from Rustenburg, South Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CROWD CHANTING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We want money.
(CROWD CHANTING)
NKEPILE MABUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're demanding $1500 a month, more than double what they're earning now. That is what drill operators say they won't accept anything less from the owners of Lonmin platinum mines in Rustenburg, South Africa.
What started out as a wage dispute last Friday has escalated into a deadly standoff. A tenth victim was found hacked to death on Tuesday. On Sunday, security officers were burned alive trying to protect mine property.
These workers deny involvement in the killing streak, but many of the victims were murdered with weapons similar to the ones they proudly wield.
They won't say which labor union they belong to, but are thought to be members of newly-established Association of Mine Workers and Construction union, a more militant group. It's in a bloody turf war with the dominant National Union of Mine Workers.
MABUSE (on camera): The situation has been like this for days, now. Hundreds of miners gather every single morning on that hilltop, many of them carrying very, very dangerous weapons, as you can see.
The police here in their numbers to contain the situation, and they've pushed us far back, all the journalists are behind these police vehicles, because this is a very unpredictable crowd that can turn at any minute.
MABUSE (voice-over): The company says the strike is illegal and negotiations can only begin when the miners current contract ends.
A similar dispute saw work halted for six weeks at Impala Platinum. The battle between the two unions could threaten the survivor of the struggling platinum industry in South Africa.
Nkepile Mabuse, CNN, Rustenburg, South Africa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up after the break, we take a boat trip and see the historic side of Indonesia's sea trade.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: And now for something different. Indonesia's capital, Jakarta, is a city built on trade. Sea trading, of course, very vital for the group of islands that make up the world's largest archipelago.
But away from the city's bustling main harbor, Jakarta's ancient port is still very much active. Sara Sidner boarded a traditional boat to discover the city's seafaring history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just nine kilometers from Jakarta's modern port of Tanjung Priok is a 500-year-old Gateway, almost unchanged by time. At Sunda Kelapa, cargo is still lifted by nets and crews still set sale on wooden ships.
SIDNER (on camera): You're such a gentleman. Thank you.
SIDNER (voice-over): In a country made up of more than 17,000 islands, shipping is more than just about trade. It's part of Indonesia's identity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Throw the rope! Throw the rope!
SIDNER: An identity defined by Pinisi ship captains like Haji Ariav (ph). His journey to Belitung Island will take three days, he tells me, but first he and his crew must figure out a way to leave port.
SIDNER (on camera): The hardest part of his trip is the beginning of the trip. Why? Take a look down there. We are so close, we're in such tight spot right now that we're trying to maneuver our way out of this historic port.
To the front of us, we've got a massive boat that's in the way. To the side of us, we've got another boat that's blocking our path. And right now, the captain is simply trying to figure out how to get out of this mess.
"In order to get out from here, sometimes we have to move back first, and then move forward, like this, back and forth."
(MEN SHOUTING)
SIDNER: It's a reminder of just how difficult shipping once was. "Actually, it was more difficult to move in the past," he tells me. "We had to pull out using the rope. Pulled and pulled in order to get out from the port."
Tonight, he relies on the strength of his crew and patience that comes from experience.
"I never feel bad," he says. "For me, it's all the same. Very soon, we'll get out of port. It won't be very long now."
Once a hub of world trade, Sunda Kelapa has long since been eclipsed by Tanjung Priok. A $4 billion expansion will ensure that the bigger port to the east will get even bigger. But Ariav says he doesn't feel threatened at all.
"Just leave me a lone to do my sailing," he says, confident there will always be a place for captains like him and ports like Sunda Kelapa.
Sara Sidner, CNN, Jakarta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD. When we come back, would these pictures stop you from smoking? We'll discuss Australia's tough new stance on tobacco.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. You're watching CNN International. Smokers in Australia may have a tough time picking out their favorite tobacco brand come December. Australia's high court has upheld the government law banning all branding and logos on cigarette packs.
Cigarettes will now be sold in olive green packaging with gruesome health warnings and pictures. Alex Hart of Australia's Seven network has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX HART, CHANNEL SEVEN, AUSTRALIA (voice-over): Innocent observations about a guilty pleasure.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: It looks girly. I just like it.
HART: A British commercial demonstrates the appeal of cigarette packets to children.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: It just makes you almost happy by looking at it.
HART: But this is what they'll be looking at in Australia from December.
NICOLA ROXON, ATTORNEY-GENERAL, AUSTRALIA: We have taken on big tobacco, and we have won.
HART: The high court today stubbed out the claim from tobacco companies that our world's first plain packaging laws were unconstitutional. It also ordered them to cough up the government's legal costs.
KYLIE LINDOFF, CANCER COUNCIL: They know this has an impact, so this is a great outcome for public health.
HART: And an outcome which has big tobacco fuming. It warns cheap counterfeit smokes will now flood the market.
SCOTT MCINTYRE, BRITISH AMERICAN TOBACCO: We think over time, potentially, it could actually increase smoking rates.
HART: As for smokers --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an addiction. I'm not buying it for the packaging.
HART (on camera): No difference?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
HART: The smoke hasn't entirely cleared yet. The government's still facing two other legal challenges claiming it's breached international trade rules, and that could result in huge compensation payouts.
CHRIS ARGENT, PHILIP MORRIS: Plain packaging won't reduce smoking, but it will impact the value of our brand.
HART (voice-over): If Australia succeeds, the UK government and many others are considering following suit.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I think this one looks actually quite pretty.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Yes.
HART: Alex Hart, Seven News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Australia now has some of the toughest anti-smoking legislation in the world, but are the rules -- what are the rules, I should say, in other countries?
In Uruguay, 80 percent of a cigarette pack must be covered with health warnings. In the UK, large shops and supermarkets have to hide tobacco from public view. In the US, rules on smoking differ in each state, but California has expensive anti-smoking legislation. Smoking is banned within six meters of any public building, as well as on all beaches.
Australia's new law is being closely watched across the world. Britain, New Zealand, Canada, and India are all considering similar measures. So, does branding make that much of a difference, if you can't see your favorite brand, and if you see these gruesome photos? We hit the streets of London to find out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I think every smoker has a brand that they smoke. So, I would kind of want to know what I was smoking, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you smoke, you smoke, I think. Regardless of the packaging.
PHIL HAN, CNN DIGITAL PRODUCER: Are brands important for you as a smoker?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I only smoke one brand, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, younger people won't be drawn in by the packaging.
HAN: Do you think brand names are important to people in terms of being cool or --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course. Yes, of course. People see adverts on TV and people smoking in films, makes a big difference.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think certain different types of people smoke different types of cigarettes for sure.
HAN: Do you think that'll have a -- make a difference?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not really.
HAN: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think people smoke if they want to smoke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: "People smoke if they want to smoke." As you saw there, most people seem to think brands are important. So, will plain packaging help people stop smoking? Or is the government removing the rights of smokers and tobacco companies to choose the brand they want?
With me to discuss these questions is Nathan Grey from the American Cancer Society right here in Atlanta. Thanks for being with us. And David Atherton, director of the smokers' rights group, Freedom to Choose.
David Atherton, I'm going to start with you. Why do you think it's a bad idea? You saw in that Australian television report, children being tempted, perhaps, to explore the idea of smoking with quote-unquote "sexy packaging" for cigarettes. What's so wrong with removing labeling and branding?
DAVID ATHERTON, DIRECTOR, FREEDOM TO CHOOSE: Well, I -- that is just pure spin and propaganda, that particular video. That was produced by tobacco control industries.
In fact, the Mexican government actually asked Nicola Roxon what evidence they had that plain packaging would reduce youth smoking in Australia, and her answer was, and I quote, "The sort of proof they're looking for doesn't exist," when there hasn't been introduced around the world.
There is not one shred of evidence that plain packaging will reduce the instances of smoking amongst the youth of the world.
GORANI: But it's not just plain packaging, it's these photos, as well, of people who've suffered from smoking-related illnesses. Won't that make people think twice?
ATHERTON: No, in fact, the other way around. There was a paper that was produced out of New York, part of universities, three years ago in 2009, where they showed these grotesque medical pornography photographs and packets to smokers, and rather than being repulsed by them, actually raised their interest in smoking more. They actually wanted to smoke more when they were seeing the images.
GORANI: All right. Well, Nathan Grey, "medical pornography" is what David Atherton is calling these images, and he says it won't reduce smoking rates at all.
NATHAN GREY, AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: Well, there's a pretty extensive body of knowledge that shows that, in fact, graphic warning labels do reduce smoking rates. They discourage people from taking up cigarettes in the first place, and they encourage many smokers to stop.
"Medical pornography" is not the right word here. The right word is the truth. This is what happens when you smoke. People need to be informed about what happens.
GORANI: But what about the freedom of people to choose the brand that they want to choose? In a way, isn't this just hurting the tobacco companies' bottom line while doing nothing to stop people from smoking?
GREY: No. In fact, it will reduce smoking rates, and the brands will still be on the tobacco packages, they just won't have the logos and all the sexy marketing that goes with it. It's going to be plain packaging. It's going to be just the honest truth. This is tobacco, this is what it does.
GORANI: So, Nathan Grey has one truth. David Atherton, you have another. Nathan, you're saying it doesn't (sic) reduce smoking rates, and David you're saying it doesn't. So, what's the truth here?
ATHERTON: Well, the war on tobacco, like the war on alcohol during American prohibition, like the war on drugs that President Nixon started, has been a complete failure. In the UK, for example, when they brought in the inside smoking ban, 27 -- 27 percent of the population smoked tobacco, whether it was cigarettes, pipe tobacco, or cigars.
And to this very day, five years later, the smoking rates for the adult population are identical at 27 percent.
GORANI: What do you say to that?
AHTERTON: It's --
GORANI: Nathan?
GREY: Smoking rates in the US used to be in excess of 50 percent --
GORANI: Yes.
GREY: -- and now they just recently ticked below 20 percent, so --
GORANI: To what do you attribute that, though?
GREY: To an extensive package of tobacco control --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Because you don't have graphic photos. You don't have graphic photos on the packaging here.
GREY: It's an -- that's correct. And hopefully we will one day. But we have implemented a lot of policy restrictions which have allowed the smoking rates -- have forced the smoking rate down. And we will, hopefully, implement more in the future.
GORANI: Yes.
GREY: These are the sorts of -- this is information and policies that inform consumers and that move us in a direction to improve public health.
GORANI: David Atherton, smoking is bad for you, OK?
ATHERTON: It is bad for you.
GORANI: Why is it a problem if you show children the effects -- the possible effects -- of smoking on their bodies. Why does it bother you particularly?
ATHERTON: I'm sorry, can you repeat the question for me?
GORANI: Why does it bother you particularly that these laws are in effect in a country like Australia --
AHTERTON: Oh!
GORANI: -- and you show kids -- you show kids the possible effects of smoking? Smoking is bad for you.
ATHERTON: Well, for the simple -- well, there are two ways that I'll answer that is what -- what this banning of -- all plain packs in Australia means is, effectively, you have allowed the state to actually commit an act of theft on somebody's private property.
Where does this end? Will we be having pictures of -- livers with sclerosis on cans of beer?
GORANI: Right.
ATHERTON: Will we be having pictures of obesity on McDonald's wrappers? Where --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Would you favor --
ATHERTON: -- where does the nanny state want to go?
GORANI: -- sclerosis of the liver pictures on beer cans?
GREY: Well, I think this is an argument that is frequently used --
GORANI: But he has a point, though. He has a point. Lots of things are bad for you.
GREY: Yes. Lots of things are bad for you. We can agree as reasonable adults to take reasonable precautions to protect us from --
ATHERTON: That's my point.
GREY: -- from significant risks. And that's what we're doing in this case. That doesn't inevitably lead to a totalitarian state, but it's an argument that's frequently used, that if you take this one step, it's going to lead to something else. It's not true. All the time, society puts reasonable restrictions on dangerous products.
GORANI: But again, I want to ask you about that, for instance. If you have a cancer of -- ravaged lung, picture of that on a cigarette pack, should every substance that's bad for you and can lead to possibly a deadly disease have that kind of warning?
GREY: Well, it's hard to make a blanket statement about every substance. I think --
GORANI: Let's say alcohol.
GREY: I think -- I think that in the case of alcohol, in the case of, for example, junk foods --
GORANI: Yes.
GREY: -- we need to do the correct research to determine what the appropriate policy solutions are, if there are those. It doesn't mean that in every case we need to put graphic warning labels up, but we do need to take the right steps to protect people from dangerous substances.
GORANI: All right. And David Atherton, I've got to ask you, when you see these pictures or these warnings on cigarette packs, do you ever think twice? Does it ever make you think twice about the idea of smoking?
ATHERTON: No. Not at all. It's just a haze in the background. In fact, when I see a plain cigarette packet without any health warnings, if you go to places like North Africa, you often find them there, and I'm surprised when I don't see a health warning. It's the other way around.
GORANI: Oh, so that's -- right. Now, I'm going to give you a quick last word, then, since I started with David. Do you hope that this -- obviously you said you hope that in the United States and other countries you would have these warnings on cigarette packs?
GREY: Absolutely. We think it's really an important -- it's a big step, and we congratulate the Australian government for doing this. It's a fantastic step in the interest of public health.
This is -- you were talking about children, and this is really important for children, because 80 percent of all smokers started before they were 18 years old.
GORANI: Right.
GREY: This is not a product that's geared towards adults. This is a product that's geared to children. We need to make sure that children see these images and understand the truth. And hopefully, make smart decisions to protect their health.
GORANI: Nathan Grey from the American Cancer Society, thank you very much for joining me here --
GREY: Thank you.
GORANI: -- in Atlanta, and David Atherton is the director of the smokers' rights group Freedom to Choose. Thank you to you both for being on CNN --
ATHERTON: Thank you.
GORANI: -- this evening.
ATHERTON: Great time, thank you.
GORANI: And in tonight's Parting Shots, the pictures keep getting better and better and better. The latest high-resolution image from Mars comes from an orbiting spacecraft. Now, there's a blue speck that you probably see there. That is -- that's the rover. That's the Mars Curiosity rover.
It isn't blue in real life. The photo has been color enhanced so that it shows you the contrast on the landing site. The black charring is where thrusters from the sky crane blasted through thick dust, and that's what was left around Curiosity.
I'm Hala Gorani, and this was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thanks for watching. The world headlines are next after a short break. Stay with us.
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