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Connect the World

Egyptian Military Calls For Dialogue; Mali's Interim Prime Minister Resigns On State TV; Interview with First Female Saudi Filmmaker; Nelson Mandela Health Scare; Leading Women: Opera Star Sumi Jo; Archeologists Find Skeleton of Mona Lisa Model; UEFA Boss Unhappy With Goal Line Technology; Parting Shots: 15-Meter Rubber Duck on River Thames

Aired December 11, 2012 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Tonight on Connect the World, a country deeply divided. Rival rallies in Cairo just days away from a major crossroads in its march towards democracy.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.

ANDERSON: Well, just after 11:00 pm in Cairo, thousands of protesters still on the streets as emotions run high ahead of Saturday's referendum on a controversial constitution. That is coming up this hour.

Also tonight, he fought for freedom now as he battles against illness your messages for Nelson Mandela.

And...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Historical documents seem to indicate that this is the place where Lisa Guaradini, otherwise known as Mona Lisa, was buried.

Beyond that, it's all a mystery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: The search for the woman behind one of the most famous smiles in art history.

First up tonight, a plea for national unity in Egypt. Military leaders are reportedly this hour calling on President Mohamed Morsi and the opposition to come together on Wednesday for national dialogue. Now this call comes amid mass rival protests in Cairo. These are live pictures for you this hour. Government opponents and supporters holding separate protests tonight, making their case about a controversial referendum.

Now, Egyptians are scheduled to vote within days on a new draft constitution. While there's not just a divide between supporters and opponents of the opposition -- of the government, sorry, tonight. The opposition itself has been divided over whether to boycott Saturday's referendum or turn out to vote. No, let's bring in Reza Sayah live for you on the phone out of Cairo this evening.

As we look at these pictures coming to us of anti-Morsi demonstrators there at the presidential palace. Just give us a sense of the mood in Cairo tonight, Reza.

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A little after 11:00 pm local time here in Cairo. Still a couple of thousand people out here outside the presidential palace, but the crowds are thinning. And I think a lot of people are relieved at this hour that there was no violence, no clashes, because there was certainly the potential of violence, that's because once again the two sides in this conflict call for mass demonstrations, the opposition factions marched on to the palace earlier tonight. They congregated here about 15 minutes away from this location that's where the Muslim Brotherhood, supporters of the president gathered.

Of course the last time these two sides called for demonstrations they met up here at the palace and it was an ugly scene. The brawled it out. Nearly 700 people injured, several people killed. Nobody wanted a repeat performance, and it didn't happen. both demonstrations were peaceful. At this hour, Becky, they're going home and now all eyes on Saturday, that's the date when this nationwide referendum on the draft constitution is scheduled to take place.

ANDERSON: Ahead of that, and of course the clock is ticking down, as you suggest to Saturday, ahead of that reports that the army is calling on both sides to enter into once again -- and we've seen this before in the last couple of weeks -- a national dialogue Wednesday. What do you know of that? And can you see it happening at this point?

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the defense minister wants it to happen. He's called a meeting tomorrow. He's called all leaders, the political factions, including the opposition, to meet. There's no official reason for this meeting, but it's probably because of this political crisis. Could the defense minister be calling on these sides to make peace? If so, will it work? Will everyone attend this meeting? We're going to have to wait and see.

Another thing to look for tomorrow is the meeting of opposition leaders. They're scheduled to announce their final decision on whether they'll take part in the referendum on Saturday. They say that has to do with the judges. If enough judges, according to the opposition, oversee those referendum, they say they could participate. If not, they won't.

If they say they will take part in this vote, that could be a factor in diffusing this conflict, Becky.

ANDERSON: And on that point, ther are reports at least 90 percent of what's known as the Egyptian judges club said that they will not take part in the logistics of this referendum called for Saturday. Now those judges are needed at voting booths as I understand it, or at least to oversee what's going on. Is there at this point skepticism in the country about whether this referendum can actually go ahead logistically. Is a framework in place with 72 hours to go for them to actually be able to carry this out at this point?

SAYAH: The president, his supporters, the current government, they're confident that everything is in place for this referendum to take place. The current constitution says that at least 8,000, 9,000 judges need to oversee this referendum.

Now it's impossible to think how many judges are going to fulfill their duty and oversee this referendum. The judges are divided. Some say they're going to oversee it, some say they're not. If enough judges boycott this vote, it's certainly possible that that could undermine the legitimacy of this entire process.

ANDERSON: All right, Reza, thank you for that. As we look at live pictures out of Cairo tonight where there are thousands on the streets in rival rallies both pro and anti-Morsi, of course, who is the Egyptian president. Ahead of this incredibly controversial constitutional referendum which is at least at this point scheduled to happen Saturday.

Let's remind you, briefly, why the opposition is so upset with this new draft constitution. It was drafted by an Islamist dominated assembly despite a walkout by liberal and Christian assembly members. Now critics argue that the constitution doesn't represent all Egyptians and worry that it doesn't protect key human rights and freedoms.

Here's what leading opposition figure Mohamed ElBaradei told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMED ELBARADEI, EGYPTIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: We need to make sure that women's rights are guaranteed. It is not. We need to make sure that freedom of reglion -- or belief is guaranteed. It is not. We need to make sure that freedom of expression is guaranteed. It is not. And the way it is done, you give supreme power, or a veto power for the religious institution to have the final say in the legislative process. Well, that it is not really the making of a democratic, free, civil state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: All right. Well, government supporters, though, feel they were given a mandate by free and fair elections. They say President Morsi is actually protecting Egypt's democratic revolution. Let's get you some perspective this hour from a spokeswoman for the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party. It's Sondos Asem joining us live from Cairo.

And we thank you for that.

ElBaradei there suggesting that this constitution does not, does not protect the rights of women, freedom of expression or freedom of religion. Why would you support a constitution that negated those three institutions?

SONDOS ASEM, SPOKESPERSON, FREEDOM & JUSTICE PARTY: Well, thank you Becky for having me. In fact, I disagree with Mr. ElBaradei. And I challenge him that he has actually read the constitutional draft. The constitution does have articles that guarantee all kinds of civil liberties including freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and freedom of association. And it also guarantees women rights and minority rights.

So I'm not sure what he is referring to actually.

ANDERSON: Well, I've actually -- I think ElBaradei probably has read the constitution, to be quite frank, and fair to him. I've also read the articles. And I alluded -- sorry, let me just finish. I look to the rights for women and I think it's fair to say that very -- there are many constitutions around the world that actually don't specifically give rights to women, but this one is slightly skewed. While on one hand it offers rights to women and on the other it sort of, I think, unfair to say takes them away. There is certainly a kind of sense of Sharia law which would frighten those who defend the right of women as equals in society.

ASEM: There are articles in the constitution that speak -- that there is no discrimination between men and women. And there are articles that grant women specific rights, which is actually positive discrimination for women such as special rights for motherhood and childhood, special rights for women who are breadwinners of their family which constitute great percentage of Egyptian society. And also even the articles that -- the family structure in Egyptian society should be respected actually reflects the nature of Egyptian society whether Muslims or Christians.

So in fact -- let me just point out that the section in the constitution about civil liberties actually is not just for men it's for men and women. And all those articles that speak -- that all citizens have the right to freedom of speech, the right to work and that there is no discrimination between citizens indicates that there is...

ANDERSON: Let's move on -- let's move on, because I want as much of your narrative to get out to our viewers tonight, because I'm fascinated.

As a women, then, you are -- and I want a yes or no on this, you are absolutely satisfied that you, in this constitution, as a woman, are reflected as an equal member of society. Yes or no.

ASEM: Certainly yes.

ANDERSON: Right, OK.

What is it that you think worries the opposition so much? I mean, you know that Mohamed ElBaradei is an incredibly bright and fair man. I've met him many, many times. You're probably well aware of him and his background, so what is it that you think upsets Mohamed ElBaradei so much?

ASEM: Well, everyone in Egypt has a right to express their opinions and to this degree. So...

ANDERSON: What upsets him, do you think?

ASEM: Egyptian opposition now are objecting to several -- to several things. In fact, a few weeks before they were against the constitutional declaration. Now they are against the constitution itself and against the electoral process. Some of them you would not...

ANDERSON: Can I phrase my question in a different way? I'm sorry. Let me just frame my question in a different way. Do you think it is simply because this is a constitution that the opposition really feels they've had no part in that upset Mohamed ElBaradei so much? I mean, he will say this is an Islamist led draft constitution, which some 50 percent of the population has had no part to play in.

ASEM: Well, Becky, in fact seculars and Christians have taken part in drafting -- in drafting this constitution. It was not just drafted by Islamists. This is false, in fact. And it was based on consensus. And it was -- the constitutional assembly itself, it was democratically elected. And in fact Mr. ElBaradei with all due respect, he was calling for other way of selecting the constitutional assembly. We chose the democratic path.

We would like the people themselves and their elected representatives to represent them and to decide the course of the country. This...

ANDERSON: OK. Let me put one more question to you. There are allegations across a wide platform of social media at this hour that suggest that Muslim Brotherhood supporters have been abusing, torturing opposition protesters. What do you know of those allegations? And given that that would be almost a mirror image of what happened in the past to Muslim Brotherhood supporters under the regime of Mubarak, how would you respect if those allegations were true?

ASEM: Well, Becky, that's simply incorrect. Nobody has actually given evidence to that. And I would like to give you news that today the tenth Muslim Brotherhood member has actually died because of gunshots in his neck that he received in the last presidential palace clashes. We had 10 marchers in the last presidential palace clashes. And none of these media are actually referring to the people who died. And none of them are portraying the truth of what happened, which is actually a shame. And very unprofessional and untransparent from them.

The violence that happened at the presidential palace was mainly between peaceful protesters who went to protest for the legitimacy of the state. And they were attacked by armed thugs. I wouldn't consider those revolutionaries. I would consider them armed thugs that belong to the Mubarak regime and Mubarak loyalists. And I believe that any kind of violence...

ANDERSON: I'm going to have to wrap this up -- but I'm not cutting you off, because I would love over the next, what, 72 hours to have you back on the show as we move towards this constitutional referendum. Let's talk again.

At this stage I've got to take a very short break on this show, but it's been a pleasure to talk to you. And do stay in touch. We thank you very much, indeed.

The view there of a female member of the Muslim Brotherhood for you today on a story that is incredibly important and is still bubbling as we speak this hour on the streets of Cairo and other cities in Egypt.

You're watching Connect the World live from London. Still to come this hour, just months after a political coup in Mali the government -- the country's government is in disarray once again. We're going to have details on that and your other news coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Mali's interim prime minister Cheick Modiba Diarra resigned on state television early this morning hours after being arrested by soldiers responsible for the military coup in March. Well, just moment ago the country's president named Django Sissoko as the new premier. Let's get straight to CNN's Vladimir Duthiers who is covering this story for us from Lagos in Nigeria.

Vlad, at this point what more do we know?

VLADIMIR DUTHIERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you said, Becky, you know yesterday the president was actually scheduled to fly to the -- the prime minister, sorry, was scheduled to fly to Paris to receive some medical attention. His bags had actually been placed on to the aircraft when Jeeps full of armed soldiers arrived at his residence, put him under arrest, took him to a local television station and asked him to read his resignation letter on the television. And this is what he had to say during that resignation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHEICK MODIBA DIARRA, PRIME MINISTER OF MALI (through translator): Our country, Mali, is going through the most period in history. During this time of crisis the men and women of this country, uncertain of what is going to happen, find themselves in a difficult situation. That's why I, Cheick Modiba Diarra have resigned with all my government on this day, Tuesday 11 of December of 2012. I apologize to all of the Malian people who are suffering from this crisis in every way and at all levels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DUTHIERS: Now, since that statement, Becky, Cheick Modiba Diarra has not been seen, but as you just mentioned, a new interim prime minister has been appointed.

This all started back in March. Rebel leaders seized control of the government. They were angry because they were saying that the government had not done enough to protect and equip them to fight Tuaregs, ethnic Tuaregs living in the northern part of Mali.

During that power vacuum the Tuaregs took advantage of that. They were armed with weapons that they had received from fighting alongside Moammar Gadhafi in Libya. And during that vacuum Islamists that are affiliated with al Qaeda in Islamic Magreb took on the Tuareg rebels and the country split into this very tumultuous period that we're seeing right now.

And right now the Economic Community of West African States is considering an option to send military troops from West Africa into Mali to try to bring an end to this tumultuous period, Becky.

ANDERSON: Vlad Duthier there on the Mali story for you. Vlad, thank you for that.

In other news this hour the U.S. has dispatched a team to help investigate the plane crash that killed the Mexican-American singer Jenny Rivera on Sunday. She was one of the biggest stars of traditional Mexican banda music. Senior Latin American Affairs editor Rafael Romo has more on her legacy and her life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Among the pieces recovered at the crash site in northern Mexico, a battered drivers license. In spite of its condition it clearly shows the document belonged to Jenny Rivera. The family of the Mexican-American singer is in mourning.

PEDRO RIVERA, BROTHER: It's hard to accept. It's painful. We cry because we're going to miss -- I'm going to miss my sister. We're all going to miss our sister.

ROMO: These are images of the last news conference the 43-year-old gave the night before her death. She was in Monterrey, Mexico where she had just finished a concert for about 15,000 of her adoring fans. This is perhaps Jenny Rivera's last picture uploaded to a social media site by her make-up artist. She was posing with her team on the Leer jet just before departing.

PEDRO RIVERA: The support from the fans that loved her -- I mean, just the hugs and their tears, it's consoling to us and it's really beautiful, you know, to have all these fans coming.

ROMO: The airplane departed just after three Sunday morning from Monterrey's international airport bound for Toluca. It disappeared from the radar minutes later.

GUSTAVO RIVERA, BROTHER: We know that it's out in a big, remote area where very little transportation is out there. So they're having difficulties getting over there as well as coming back.

ROMO: Carmen Garcia was Jenny Rivera's cousin. She says that like many other Mexican-American women, she was one of her most devoted fans.

CARMEN GARCIA, COUSIN: I always -- I was -- I always been one of her admirers. She's been living my dream. Her beautiful dresses, the way she sings, the way she expresses herself in those songs, she's just been my idol.

ROMO: Jose Garza, a program director at radio station at KBUA in Los Angeles was a close, personal friend of Jenny Rivera's.

JOSE GARZA, PROGRAM DIRECTOR, KBUA: She's so funny.

ROMO: He said the actress and singer had an extraordinary ability to connect with regular people.

GARZA: She's a single mother of five and she is a successful lady. And she has -- she's a strong person. And she feels beautiful. She's beautiful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Rafael Romo reporting there. This -- we're coming to you live from London. This is Connect the World.

Coming up, in a country where girls face tough restrictions, one woman is pioneering -- my interview with Saudi Arabia's first ever female film director. It's up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: 2012 has been a significant year for women in Saudi Arabia. Not only did middle distance runner Sara Atta become the first Saudi woman to compete in the Olympic Games, you'll remember that from London 2012, but Haifaa al-MAnsour made history as the country's first female film director. Her debut feature, Wadjda, is also believed to be the first movie made on Saudi soil.

Well, I spoke to the pioneering filmmaker about her debut which follows a young girl desperate to ride a bicycle, something women are forbidden from doing in the conservative country. Have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HAIFAA AL-MANSOUR, DIRECTOR: Wadjda is a coming of age story about a young Saudi girl who wants to have -- to own a bike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

AL-MANSOUR: I tried to create a character that is not passive, that has a huge love of life, and she wants to embrace and pursue her dreams because I think that is the future. If we want to end -- a lot of Saudi girls are like that, they have huge potential, but sometimes they give in, because of the culture is very -- is very like rigid and they are afraid to challenge everything.

But I think if they believe in themselves, especially now, the world is different and Saudi Arabia is opening up and they have a huge opportunities.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

ANDERSON: How controversial is this or will this film be in Saudi Arabia?

AL-MANSOUR: I think film in general is controversial in Saudi. There will be people who are opposing the film just because it is -- because it's a story told by a woman and because it's coming from Saudi. And they want to preserve Saudi Arabia as this very pure place and they feel film is corrupt and they don't want film.

But again there are lots of liberal voices emerging in Saudi Arabia.

ANDERSON: The first film to be made on Saudi soil. What sort of challenges did you face?

AL-MANSOUR: Saudi Arabia is a very segregated country. I mean, everybody knows. So it was hard for me, for example, to be in the streets when we shoot outdoors, so I had to be in a van and direct them through telephone sometimes, or mobiles. And -- but it still it was quite rewarding experience for me as a Saudi woman. I'm always like at home or in the car. And it was sometimes first time for me to be in the streets. And it was amazing.

ANDERSON: Do you mind being provocative? Does it bother you that there are people in the country who quite frankly can't stand you?

AL-MANSOUR: No, it doesn't bother me, but I don't try to be provocative. They know very much that I belong to a very conservative culture and I have boundaries to work within.

And I don't mind that, because I think change has to come from a fundamental level, and people have to work within these boundaries to make them bigger and to make people accept and become more tolerant and affirm. If I go totally against the system, sometimes I might not be heard in my own culture, and I don't want to end up there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - "WADJDA")

UNIDENITIFED FEMALE (through translator): And Wadjda, stop wearing those torn-up shoes. Wear normal black shoes, like the other girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Do you find yourself defending the culture, the country, and its attitude towards women, to a certain extent, when you're out of Saudi Arabia?

AL-MANSOUR: No, I don't think I defend. I think -- I still think Saudi Arabia has a long way to go when it comes to women and women's rights. But also I think Saudi women have to play a role in that. They have to defend their existence and they have to try harder and stick together and try to provide a better life for themselves and their sisters and their daughters.

ANDERSON: So, what sort of impact do you think this film will have?

AL-MANSOUR: I hope one day, a Saudi man will see that film and will want to give his daughter a bike or give her more freedom, and allow her to do something she really wants to do, even if the culture does not really accept it. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcome back, 33 minutes past 9:00 out of London. This is CNN, and therefore your headlines are important. This is the latest here.

Rival mass rallies in Cairo. Government supporters and opponents held separate protests just a day -- or days before, sorry -- a controversial referendum. Opposition activists are expected to announce tomorrow whether they'll boycott Saturday's vote on a draft constitution. Live pictures for you this hour out of Cairo.

British banking giant HSBC has agreed to pay a record $1.9 billion fine to settle US money-laundering allegations. The bank will not be prosecuted as long as it meets certain conditions.

Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez is undergoing preoperative procedures in Cuba. That word from Venezuela's information minister speaking on state television earlier today. Mr. Chavez recently revealed his cancer had returned.

The doctors treating Nelson Mandela say the 94-year-old is suffering from a lung infection. The former South African president was admitted to hospital on Saturday, where he's said to be responding to treatment.

Well, Mandela has not appeared in public since the 2010 World Cup, but across the globe, his fight against oppression will never be forgotten. Some of you have tweeted me @BeckyCNN to tell me what Madiba means to you. We're going to hear some of those thoughts in just a moment.

First, let's head to Johannesburg and a lady who has had the absolute pleasure of meeting Nelson Mandela, of course, Robyn Curnow. What do we know of the details of his illness at this point? How is he?

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, there's not a lot of information coming out of the presidency, who has take quite a tight control of this entire health scare. So, we're getting one-line statements every day, just about.

And today, we were informed that he was suffering from a recurring lung infection, and that he was responding well to treatment, which is, of course, great news.

I spoke to some doctors earlier on just to get a sense of what exactly a lung infection means, and they said it could possibly mean two things. He's either suffering from some sort of bronchitis, or perhaps even pneumonia and that, no doubt, doctors are monitoring him very closely, probably giving him aggressive courses of antibiotics and even physio. He's probably also been having trouble breathing.

Now, many South Africans, of course, know that Nelson Mandela bounces back. He's had numerous health scares throughout his life, and the last three years, he's been in hospital about -- this is the third time. The last two years been in hospital three times. So, there is a sense that he's pretty strong, and people are optimistic that he is going to pull through.

But just remember, as you said, I have seen him quite a lot over the past few years, and one thing I've noticed and many South Africans have noticed is just how frail he has become, particularly in the last four years since he turned 90. He has become weaker.

And I know that in the last two years, particularly, there have been sources telling me that he's become increasingly agitated, sometimes, confused, disoriented, and particularly frustrated at his lack of control over his mental and physical abilities. So, this is a man who really has been struggling with growing old.

But as you know, he's a fighter, and we know that he has, in a sense, calmed down, become happier, more relaxed in recent months. Those sources also telling me, Becky, that he's been very quiet. He hasn't been saying very much. A real sense that he's started to withdraw within himself.

So, I think many South Africans hopeful that he's going to pull through for this, but also -- pull through this, but also, quite pragmatic, that there is going to be a day when he's actually not here.

ANDERSON: All right, Robyn, thank you for that. We've been asking you to just give us a sense of how you feel about Madiba on our Facebook page, sending us your messages of support as Nelson Mandela continues to recover in hospital.

Sharon Black posts, "This world is a richer place because of people like you who lead, inspire, and motivate. Be blessed with complete healing and restoration to perfect health."

David-Jang Dooshima adds to Madiba, "Madiba, yours has been an inspiring journey as you overcome yet another of life's hurdles. Our prayers and support are yours."

You've also been tweeting me @BeckyCNN to express what Mandela means to you. Aftab Ahmed Santo says, "Nelson Mandela is a stream of light that brought the end of darkness, injustice, inequity, and inequality."

And Erin Sanders tweets, "I shook his hand when I was six. He is the epitome of an ideal human being. He liberated a nation. Get well soon, Madiba."

Keep your tweets coming in, @BeckyCNN, and you can also head to the cnn.com blog, the CONNECT THE WORLD blog, sorry, where you can watch the highlights from each night's show and have your say about anything. Just log onto cnn.com/connect.

Well, let's get you a better sense of what Mandela means to South Africans. You've heard from Robyn. I want to bring in Nic Dawes. He's the editor in chief of the country's "Mail and Guardian" newspaper.

And I just think about one of those tweets that I just read out, there, Nic, when somebody said, "I shook his hand" at six years old. "He is the epitome of a perfect human being." She probably speaks for so many people, not just in South Africa, but around the world. Have you put your finger on why he is such an inspiration to so many people, particularly those in your country?

NIC DAWES, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "MAIL AND GUARDIAN": South Africans have an extraordinary relationship with Madiba, a very close relationship, and I would say that what South Africans feel for him goes beyond the kind of affection and respect that you would imagine for a liberation hero to real love, almost familial love.

And I think the country right now feels like the family of an elderly person, of a sick person, whom they love deeply and whom they're anxiously awaiting to hear more about.

ANDERSON: Messages of support coming thick and fast to us, and to our -- across the social media divide. This at a time when your country is, quite frankly, facing a lot of problems, particularly politically.

And particularly within the African National Congress, the ANC, which was an organization that Mandela spent so much time with and ran and led for so long. How do you think people are looking forward at this point?

DAWES: It's impossible to miss that contrast that you point to between someone whose life really mirrored the struggle that was led by the ANC, was instrumental in the struggle going, spent such a long time in jail, and then led the country in its first days of democracy. So, his life is really a map of the liberation struggle, in which the ANC played such a critical and leading role.

So, the fact that the ANC finds itself in difficulty, finds itself very divided and many people questioning whether it still has that historic purpose, the contrast between that situation, allegations of corruption, and poor governance on the increase, and someone like Mandela, whose stature is undiminished means that I think people feel particularly sharply the gulf between where the party is now and its greatest-ever leader.

ANDERSON: He's being looked after well, I know. We hear that he's sort of stabilized at this point. Robyn making the point that so little is actually released about the state of his health. Why is that, Nic?

DAWES: We've had a lot of discussion with government about this. Members of the media, editors and broadcasters and others meet with the government to discuss with them how they can let us know more, how they can give us confidence in their information that they're giving us.

And they really treat anything beyond minimal information about his status as taboo. They regard his privacy as sacrosanct, and they don't seem to feel that sharing that information with us, even on background, so that we know what kind of tone to take and what plans to make, they seem to feel that that's really inappropriate. They feel hostile and angry toward us, in fact, even for asking.

And when it comes to the possibility of his passing away, which must come, that is something that they simply will not discuss at all.

ANDERSON: Fascinating. Nic, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. And of course, I know I share our viewers' sentiments around the world when we say we wish Madiba the very best. Thank you, Nic.

You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from London. Coming up: from hitting the high notes to managing life's low points, our Leading Women series continues after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(WOMAN SINGING OPERA)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: This month on Leading Women, we are following the career of one of the country's biggest opera stars. In her 25-year career -- and you've got to guess the country here -- Sumi Jo has performed at some of the world's most prestigious venues, but her success isn't without sacrifice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's nearly 8:00 PM at the Seoul Arts Center, and the crowd is streaming in. Thousands of music lovers here to see one of South Korea's most famous artists. As the orchestra tunes and the conductor takes the podium, the anticipation builds, until she steps on stage.

(APPLAUSE)

STOUT: This is what they've come for.

(WOMAN SINGING OPERA)

STOUT: She's an award-winning opera diva, who's performed at some of the most renowned performance halls in the world: the Metropolitan Opera in New York, La Scala in Milan, and she has more than 50 recordings to her credit.

This world-class soprano is Sumi Jo.

Sumi Jo's fame is rooted in an opera career that's lasted more than 25 years and performances all over the world.

SUMI JO, OPERA SINGER: I open my mouth, I start to sing. I realize that they just -- I don't know -- they've got a beautiful smile on their face. I can see them from the stage. So, I say, wow, this is beautiful. I can do something special for them. I think that's the best part of my life.

STOUT: Known for a mastery of elaborate roles from Italian opera, like Gilda in "Rigoletto," and Lucia in "Lucia di Lammermoor."

JO: All these women, at the end, you die for love. Those dramatic roles I prefer. But recently, I have discovered -- I discovered that I love -- I'm quite good at comic roles, as well.

STOUT: Jo is still a big star in her home country, though she hasn't lived in Seoul since moving to Rome nearly three decades ago. This morning, she's getting ready for an interview on television station MBN, asked to share her thoughts on everything from the upcoming Korean presidential election to the country's rise as a global trend setter.

JO (through translator): Although we are good at interacting on political and economic levels, I think the synergy that comes form communicating musically through culture is bigger than people think.

STOUT: Later, it's off to rehearsal.

JO: Tonight is going to be a rehearsal with the orchestra.

STOUT: She takes a few minutes to check in with her dog sitter in Rome.

(JO SPEAKING ITALIAN)

STOUT: Yes, really. And to call her mother, who she has yet to see in Seoul.

(JO SPEAKING KOREAN)

STOUT: For a public figure, Jo is startling honest about the toll she feels her career has taken on her personal life. With constant travel and concert tours and recording commitments, she rarely sees her family and has never married.

JO: Sometimes I feel very lonely and sad. I think everybody sometimes feels alone, but especially in this job. It's -- it's not easy. It's because I'm a home person. I love to be at home. I love cooking, I love cleaning. I love shopping. Those things.

(JO SINGING SCHUBERT'S "AVE MARIA")

STOUT: Her toughest moment came in 2006, when her father died. She was due to perform in Paris, and her mother urged her to sing for her audience instead of returning home for the funeral. She broke down in tears during the encore, Schubert's "Ave Maria."

JO: Such an incredible -- the most saddest moment in my life, and I announced to the audience to say that -- my situation, and everybody stood up and applause.

(APPLAUSE)

STOUT: At tonight's rehearsal, she'll practice a lesser-known version of "Ave Maria," this one by Italian composer Caccini.

(JO SINGING CACCINI'S "AVE MARIA")

STOUT: Along with one of the crossover songs in her repertoire.

JO: I think I am more me when I'm performing alone, like recitals and concerts, because I can wear different dresses and I can be direct to the audience. It's more fun for me.

STOUT: In the coming weeks, see how she feels about her image as an opera diva.

(JO SINGING OPERA)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: One of the art world's biggest mysteries may soon be solved. The secret of the woman behind the smile of the Mona Lisa. Archeologists in Italy have found a skeleton they believe may belong to the woman who posed for Leonardo da Vinci's masterpiece. My colleague Ben Wedeman's been on the case for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The smile has perplexed art historians for centuries. Leonardo da Vinci's priceless masterpiece, the Mona Lisa, or La Joconde.

In the frigid bowels of what was once a convent in Florence, television producer-turned-art-researcher Silvano Vinceti is leading a project to find and identify the remains of the woman who posed for da Vinci more than 500 years ago.

WEDEMAN (on camera): Historical documents seem to indicate that this is the place where Lisa Gherardini, otherwise known as Mona Lisa, was buried. Beyond that, it's all a mystery.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): The remains of five females have been found here. This skull may be that of Lisa Gherardini, the second wife of a wealthy Florence silk merchant. The remains will be compared with the DNA of two relatives buried elsewhere.

No other likeness of her has ever been found, and given that da Vinci spent years working on the painting, it's possible the real Lisa Gherardini bears no resemblance to the Mona Lisa.

"Once we identify the remains," Vinceti tells me, "We can reconstruct the face with a margin of error of 2 to 8 percent. By doing this, we'll finally be able to answer the question the art historians can't: who was the model for Leonardo?"

The smile, on the other hand, will probably remain a mystery. Vinceti claims scientific analysis suggests the smile came later.

"When," he says, "Leonardo began painting the model in front of him, he didn't draw that metaphysical, ironic, poignant, elusive smile. But rather, he painted a person who was dark and depressed."

The smile, Vinceti and others have suggested, may belong to da Vinci's longtime assistant -- and some believe lover -- Gian Giacomo Caprotti, while other art historians claim the painting was actually a surreptitious self-portrait.

So, we may never know if the smile was, as Nat King Cole sang, to tempt a lover or simply to confound humanity.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Florence, Italy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Bing! The governing body of football around the globe is finally onboard with goal line technology, but that doesn't mean the man in charge of European football liked it very much. Let's bring in Mark McKay from CNN Center for the latest on this. Why is the UEFA boss, Mr. Platini, so unhappy?

MARK MCKAY, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, he basically says, Becky, this is -- it's effectively a waste of money. He feels goal line technology and the money used for goal line technology can be used for bigger and better things.

Yes, FIFA, world football's governing body, is already onboard. They're currently using it at the Club World Cup in Japan. In an interview, Mr. Platini said he's not onboard and may not be. Listen to what the UEFA president has to say about this issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHEL PLATINI, PRESIDENT, UEFA: To put the goal line technology in our competition is 50 million euros in five years. I prefer to give 50 million euros in the grass roots, in the implement of football than to put 50 million in the technology for perhaps one or two goal by year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKAY: He says, basically, Becky, this is a slippery slope toward using more video replay. But you have to wonder, with the technology there, so many other sports adopting it and taking it and embracing it, you wonder where Mr. Platini is on this one. I don't think he's in the right column, but who am I to say, right?

ANDERSON: Yes, but he's very rarely in the right column, and he's quite controversial, isn't he?

MCKAY: Oh, yes.

ANDERSON: So, I don't know. I don't know. I think he's wrong. I think you probably do, as well. But he's always an enigmatic character.

MCKAY: Yes.

ANDERSON: And good to have on. Lovely, Marky. Thank you for that. Back, of course, in a half an hour time with "World Sport." Mr. Mark McKay in the house for you tonight.

In tonight's Parting Shots, Londoners may have looked twice this morning if they were along the River Thames and spotted this 15-meter-tall rubber duck. The inflatable bird took the river, passing some of the capital's most historic sites as part of a PR stunt.

I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD.

END