Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Rape Suspects In India Possibly Face Death Penalty; Sandy Hook Children Return To School
Aired January 03, 2013 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MAX FOSTER, HOST: Tonight on Connect the World, with their fate fast tracked through the courts, five men are charged with a brutal murder that has left India demanding justice.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London this is Connect the world.
FOSTER: The shocking gang rape of a 23 year old woman has caused the global outcry. Tonight, why many victims across the world are still too afraid to speak out.
Also this hour, a green card from Russia with love for the French actor who saw red over his taxes. And...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...variable to be needed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: How a form of autism is helping these job seekers find work.
Well, it's a case that has horrified and angered many not just in India, but around the world. Indian police have now formally charged five men over the gang rape of a young woman who later died. Sumnima Udas joins us from New Delhi with the very latest -- Sumnima.
SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Max, that's right. The -- the Delhi police has basically submitted its charge sheet and they've charged five of the six suspects, charges of murder, rape and abduction among other things. And the sixth suspect is actually supposedly a juvenile, about 17 years old, that he will be tried at a separate court.
Now those five suspects, if convicted, face a maximum charge of the death penalty -- or maximum punishment the death penalty. And as you know, this is exactly what a lot of these protesters have been protesting for the past two weeks, braving the cold, have been demanding. It's also exactly what the father of the victim has been demanding.
Rape, as you know, is very common in India. It's reported that there is a rape every 20 minutes in this country, but sometimes it does take one incident to galvanize a society and inspire change. And this certainly seems to be that watershed moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UDAS: They called it the black day to remember the 22 year old victim of last month's gang rape and to demand protection for women in a country where rape is so common it frequently goes unreported. Students marching through New Delhi, vowing that the brutal death of one of their own will not be forgotten.
A separate protest by a group of lawyers who say that neither the police nor the courts take violence against women seriously. They say they won't defend the five men who now stand accused of both gang rape and murder.
Protesters and the victim's father are demanding the death penalty for alleged attackers.
Confronted by public outrage, India's chief justice has set up a fast track court to deal with a back log of sexual offenses, but legal experts say a massive overhaul of India's old laws is needed.
KIRTI SINGH, SUPREME COURT LAWYER: Look at the archaic language that is used in our penal code. It was made in 1861. And we still haven't changed it.
UDAS: Campaigners here sense a change in the national mood, so does the U.S. activist, Eve Ensler who is in India/
EVE ENSLER, ACTIVIST: I really believe this is going to be the catalyst not only for India, but for an entire world where sexual violence is rampant.
UDAS: There's also a fierce debate about whether rape itself should carry the death penalty with some officials saying it should.
SINGH: We don't even have a (inaudible) in this country. Our laws as yet don't define, you know, sexual assault adequately.
UDAS: But human rights groups and some lawyers oppose making rape a capital crime. They say, instead, the focus needs to be on how doctors, prosecutors, judges, and the police treat sexual violence in India. That will demand massive reform to a legal system that is one of the slowest and most inefficient in the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UDAS: Now there were some questions as to whether those five suspects will be given a fair trial, especially after some of those lawyers refused to defend them or act in their defense, but the court has said that they will be appointing another lawyer and that the trial will begin this weekend -- Max.
FOSTER: Sumnima, thank you very much indeed.
Well, this case has lead to some deep soul searching in India with protests and vigils held almost daily since the horrific attack. Thousands of miles away in London, an Indian community is also holding prayers to remember the victim and call for change.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They don't know her real name and they had never seen her face, but people in this Indian community in London are deeply grieving her death. To them, she's known as Domini (ph), or lightning in Hindi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What shall I say? It's just like a daughter? We lost our own daughter and not (inaudible) is very bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not about being a sister or family, is it? It's about being a woman at the end of the day and you just -- it's not acceptable what's happened to her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are the same community. You know, it's not - - you know, we live in a global community right now. And if we just -- if we didn't -- India is in a bubble and it doesn't affect us, that's really stupid thinking. We are affected by this case just as much as the people in India.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on guys get up and take a stand. Simple as that. Because it's us, should have taken a stand a long time back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, rape is of course a global horror. It can happen anywhere within any society, but it's not easy to compare the rapes. Most stats are based on reported rape, the actual figures are usually a lot higher. What that means is that conviction rates can be misleading too. One of the reasons why many women don't report rape is so short stigma. Many feel constrained by ingrained cultural attitudes holding that women who are raped are not victims, but somehow guilty of inciting the attack. And often they can become completely ostracized from society. In extreme cases, some women feel forced to marry their attacker to restore their so- called honor.
You may remember the case of Gulnaz (ph) in Afghanistan who was jailed for adultery after a married relative raped her after an international outcry, Gulnaz (ph) was freed after serving two years, though, of her sentence.
For more on the social stigma of rape, which is also a problem in the west to a certain degree, I'm joined now from New York by Zainab Salbi, founder of Women for Women International. You may remember that last year Zainab traveled with CNN's Freedom Project to investigate sex trafficking in India.
Do you manage to work out as best you can what this stigma is if we can generalize across the globe?
ZAINAB SALBI, WOMEN FOR WOMEN INTERNATIONAL: Well, of course. Well, the most important thing to understand it's -- this is a very personal, intimate act of violence. So to start with it's actually not easy for any women, nor any man to speak about rape. It's such an intimate, very private thing that takes something that as sacred as sexual acts and make it in a very violent way. So to start with it's really not easy.
The second part is as you mentioned earlier that women are often the ones who are blamed for the rape. In the case of the Indian woman, the first statement the police commander said the next day is that women should avoid being out at night or taking public buses at night. The women are often the ones who are blamed rather than actually putting the blame that men should stop raping. So that's the second part is you -- and the third part of it is that people are actually confused what to do with it.
In the case of Tunisian woman who was recently raped by three police - - three police forces, or three policemen in Tunisia a few months ago, she did not know how to say to her family because of their own confusion. She did not know how to speak with them about it. And they were very confused when they eventually learned about it.
Most importantly -- and most importantly it is the fact that is her who is blamed. So she carries the honor, she carries the blame. And so it's very confusing. There is not much support system for the women to speak about her rape.
FOSTER: So has India been exposed as a country where this is a particular problem? Obviously there's a stigma in all countries, but in India you have the situation where they're not necessarily seen as victims these victims.
SALBI: Well, in India -- India is no different in my opinion than any other country. In Brazil, one every -- one woman is raped every 21 seconds. In America, about 18 million women are raped every year. So India is no special exception. India have a lot of cases of not only rape in this case, it's a college student, but they actually have a lot of cases of trafficking against women. 80 percent of the 800,000 people who are trafficked every year are women. And most of them are trafficked for sexual exploitation.
FOSTER: I was just going to...
SALBI: So India is no different in that.
FOSTER: I want to put one of our iReporters in the comments from an iReporter to you, because interesting comments. Meera Vijayann is a young woman living in Bangalore and felt compelled to speak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEERA VIJAYANN, IREPORTER: Sexual violence is something women here face every single day. Chauvinism is inherent in (inaudible) society. And it's bound to have such consequences. It's not just men alone who perpetrate these biases, it's women as well.
This girl could have been me, it could have been any of my friends. And no one would have taken us seriously. Most politicians in India have rape charges against them. Most policemen view rape victims as perpetrators. So what change do millions of girls like me have when it comes to finding justice?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: She's basically saying, isn't she, that chauvinism is inherent in a deeply patriarchal society. It's not a male-female issue for her.
SALBI: It's not a male-female issue, there are lots of actually men who are also getting raped, but men are the number one violators of sexual violence whether it is marital rape as in my case in my 20s or whether it is family rape as in the cases of many children who are raped in the world by either their fathers or family members, or it is in a stranger's rape as in the case of the college student who recently died in India. Men are in the number one reasons why rape occurs, though men are also victims of rape in smaller quantities, but still in a very serious numbers in here.
Now we need to change the discussions about rape. Instead of blaming the women for it -- don't dress up like this, don't go at night, carry pepper spray with you, we need to actually really rise up in a serious way and have a discussion with men. Real men don't rape. Good men don't rape. And we need more and more men to speak up against violence against women as men, not only to protect women, but to actually protect the meaning of a real man, which is a good man is not a rapist. And that's a transformation we need to change actually across cultures from the Middle East to Africa to Asia to Latin America and the U.S. and Western Europe as well. That phenomena of the women being blamed is still a global phenomena and we need to switch that discussion to have men be more responsible for committing such acts.
FOSTER: Zainab Salbi of Women for Women International. Thank you very much indeed for joining us on the program.
Still to come, an emotional return for survivors of an elementary school massacre. Hundreds of children had to face their fears and head back to class. We'll have a live report for you from Connecticut.
Also, Pakistani officials say U.S. drone strikes have killed a Taliban commander who have made peace with the government in Islamabad.
And a German company's innovative program employing adults with Asperger's. All that and much more when Connect the World continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Just referring back to our previous interview. The United Nations actually states that 85,000 women -- 85,000 rape cases in the United States in 2010. The latest figures we have for you. Wanted to make sure we gave you the correct one.
Now picturesque village in southern Switzerland became the scene of a deadly shooting rampage on Wednesday. Police say a man with a history of mental illness began firing at people in the streets of Daillon killing three women and wounding two men. The gunmen was shot by police and taken to a hospital.
Almost three weeks after they survived a shocking massacre, hundreds of children in Connecticut are now back in school. Shooters from Sandy Hook Elementary returned to class where they are now attending a different school in a nearby town.
Let's bring in Deborah Feyerick for more. She's live in Monroe, Connecticut. How did the day unfold, Deborah?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Max, there was a lot of anxiety at the beginning of the day. Parents did not know what to expect when they put their children on the school bus, but boy, I'll tell you, teachers from Sandy Hook Elementary School, they pulled off a miracle. Not only did they breath life into this old, unused school by transforming it into a safe and warm and welcoming place, but they also really breathed life into a traumatized community. They made it a very regular, routine, ordinary day. And that's what the kids and the parents wanted.
The kindergartners had circle time. And they actually talked about what they did over Christmas Holiday. And then the fourth graders had a scavenger hunt to get used to the new building.
And what they did is they actually brought over their desks and their cubbies and rugs and things that were familiar to the children, so even though the class itself was a bit different, at least they were able to have a sense that they belonged there.
We spoke to a father earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW PALEY, SANDY HOOK PARENT: And they took the bus. So, you know, we had the normal routine of giving them breakfast and getting their -- you know, their backpacks packed. And then they went out -- we went out and waited for the bus. And then as soon as the bus came, they didn't even look back. It was, bye guys, and they just kind of waved and ran onto the bus. And they were able to pick their seat, because now they're the first picked up versus the last, which it used to be, and, you know, they were excited by it.
And then I went to school after that and I met them -- I actually got there before they did. So they came through the door and saw me and were very excited that I was there and walked me up to their class rooms.
FEYERICK: What was that like in terms of the building, the activities, the teachers. Describe the environment and what was going on inside the building.
PALEY: They were trying to make it as normal of a day as possible, but not doing a lot of educational stuff is more social -- doing a lot of arts and crafts and doing scavenger type hunts around -- you know, their floor so they can get to know where things were. And, you know, making things kind of adventurous and fun for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: You know, and it wasn't just the parents -- the parents did follow the school buses to the new building. But, you know, there were a lot of volunteers and counselors and even therapy dogs that the children could pet in case they started feeling anxious. A lot of support for the families and also for the teachers as well.
You know, the parents were called into class as needed. They helped in some of the activities just to show the kids that, you know, everything was OK. And then the parents did meet with some school officials just to kind of talk over and go over some logistics.
That father who you heard from Max, Andrew Paley, you know, he said, look, perception is different from reality. But the perception is that this is good. It's really good.
So things seem to be back to normal, clearly. Now it is getting dark, night time is coming. The children may see the sort of malaise and the sort of anxiety returning, but at least for the parents they really feel that everything that they wanted was accomplished -- Max.
FOSTER: It's good to hear at least. Deborah, thank you very much indeed.
Now the British government is projected Argentina's renewed demand for UK to return the Falkland Islands. The two countries went to war 30 years ago over the south Atlantic Archipelago known in Argentina as Las Malvinas.
Matthew Chance has the latest on this long running territorial dispute.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORREPSONDENT: They're the wind swept islands at the heart of this increasingly bitter territorial dispute. For more than a 180 years, Britain has administered the Falklands, and that won't change says the British prime minister, until those living there decide otherwise.
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The future of the Falkland Islands should be determined by the Falkland Islanders themselves, the people who live there. Whenever they've been asked their opinion they said they want to maintain their current status with the United Kingdom. They're holding a referendum this year. And I hope the president of Argentina will listen to that referendum and recognize it's for the Falkland Islanders to choose their future. And as long as they choose to stay with the United Kingdom, they have my 100 percent backing.
CHANCE: But the Argentinian president Cristina de Kirchner is unlikely to accept any vote, not least because the islanders are overwhelming pro-British. Argentina sees them as occupiers and have stepped up its pressure.
President Kirchner has sent this open letter to Prime Minister Cameron copying in the Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-Moon. In it, she calls on Britain to return the islands to Argentine jurisdiction. British rule over the territory that began, she writes, in a blatant exercise of 19th Century colonialism.
The cause is, she says, embraced by Latin America and by a vast majority of peoples and governments around the world that reject colonialism.
At least it's just a war of words. Back in 1982, Britain and Argentina waged an actual war over the islands which killed at least 900 people. Argentina surrendered, but never dropped its claim, one now being vigorously pursued, especially since oil was discovered recently in Falkland territorial waters.
SUKEY CAMERON, FALKLAND ISLANDS GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVE: The Argentine government have always used the islands as an excuse to draw people's attention away from what's happening internally in the country. And it's well known at the moment that they have serious economic problems.
CHANCE: It's that mix of economics and nationalism that continues to influence opinion over the Falklands and why on this issue neither Britain nor Argentina are likely to back down.
Matthew Chance, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: And we're going to take you to a short break now, but when we come back the French movie star the tax row a surprising citizenship offer. That story straight ahead on Connect the World.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Movie star Gerard Depardieu is getting some high profile help in his tax row with France. Depardieu filed his homeland for Belgium in protest of French government plans for a tax hike on the country's richest citizens. Now Russian President Vladimir Putin has stepped in and granted the actor citizenship.
Depardieu is a cultural icon in France. And his departure has triggered a storm of public criticism. Jim Bittermann is in Paris for us tonight. And how are the French taking this?
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, I think it's mixed reaction here. There are some people that are sympathetic with Depardieu in the sense that they figure they pay too much taxes just like he does. On the other hand, there are others who we talked to on the streets this afternoon in fact said that they're offended at the idea that he would try to leave the country, try to not shoulder his tax burden.
He says in his own defense, however, and he said this in a letter to the prime minister just before Christmas, that he's over the 45 year career here, over his 30, 45 year career, he has given the government 145 million euros in tax money. And as a consequence, he thinks that no one can shame him about paying taxes. Now he's gotten this offer from Putin who is saying that if he wants to take up residency in Russia he is welcome to -- Max.
FOSTER: OK. Jim, thank you very much indeed. We'll follow that story with some interest. But where is a movie star to go, you can ask? Well, you might think that the United States would be perfect given its massive film industry, but let's not forget the new U.S. tax code that's come in out of the fiscal cliff deal. The top rate of income tax has now moved from 35 percent to 39.6 percent. And that applies to anyone earning above $400,000, which many of these actors do, of course.
Let's take a closer look at Depardieu's homeland of France. The top individual tax rate there is 45 percent for now. French President Francois Hollande plans to press ahead with his plans for a 75 percent rate for those who earn more than a million euros, or $1.3 million, that's despite France's constitutional court ruling that that would be unfair.
So maybe a mansion in Moscow isn't a bad idea after all. Russia has flat income tax rates of 13 percent for all its citizens.
This story has reignited debate around the world about tax hikes and those trying to avoid them. We took to the streets of Paris to see what the French think of the proposed tax rate. And we also went to central London where the British government plans to cut the top income tax rate by 5 percent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I personally think 70 percent is crazy. Why not 80 or even 90? So I think they need to find a different solution to make people realize there's a crisis and everyone needs to contribute. But this reform is too scary. Of course actors, athletes and people who earn millions will leave the country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Obviously you want everyone to be working hard. And you don't want people to be living off the state. And so they're kind of still doing it sort of like a reverse psychology thing where everyone feels like what's the point of working hard if I can't reap the benefits of it, I can't get the reward. And I think people should be rewarded.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course they will invest all their money in the tax havens. So of course their money won't stay in France, it will go...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Invariably that does happen, yeah. Not necessarily leave the country, but unfortunately there are ways to avoid paying taxes legitimately and illegitimately I'm sure. But -- yeah, I think a higher tax rate does encourage people to look for ways of avoiding paying tax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Everyone's got a view. Still to come on Connect the World, the Pentagon said he had, quote, a great deal of blood on his hands. We have details of U.S. drone strikes that reportedly killed this Taliban commander.
Turning a setback into a strength. The German company giving new opportunities for those with a form of autism. That story still to come.
And later, it could be the most amazing image you'll see all year. We'll have the story behind this photo that's captivating people around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: A warm welcome to our viewers across Europe and around the world. I'm Max Foster, these are the latest world headlines from CNN.
Five men in India are now formally charged in the December gang rape and beating of a New Delhi student and beating of her male companion. The unidentified woman died as a result of her injures, and murder is amongst the charges.
Transocean is set to pay $1.4 billion in fines and penalties for its role in the 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. The offshore drilling firm owned the rig where an explosion killed 11 men and sparked a massive oil spill.
French actor Gerard Depardieu has been granted Russian citizenship by President Vladimir Putin. The actor recently said he would give up his French passport after the government criticized his decision to move abroad to avoid higher taxes.
And Pakistani officials say US drone strikes have killed a prominent Taliban commander and at least 14 other people in two tribal regions. Maulvi Nazir was accused of orchestrating attacks against NATO troops in Afghanistan.
We want to take a closer look, now, at Maulvi Nazir and how his death might affect the stability of the region. Nazir and several of his associates were reportedly killed in their vehicle as they were driving near Wana. That's the main town in South Waziristan, where Nazir's forces were reportedly based.
A second strike came in North Waziristan, targeting a vehicle in the town of Mir Ali. Let's bring in CNN security analyst Peter Bergen for more on these developments. And first of all, Peter, on Nazir, what do we know about him?
PETER BERGEN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Max, he's somebody who has had some sort of cease-fire agreement with the Pakistani government, unlike a lot of the Pakistani Taliban, which has conducted a relentless campaign against the Pakistani military and civilian targets in Pakistan over the last several years.
Maulvi Nazir was more focused on the war across the border in Afghanistan. He's not one of the top-top Taliban commanders, but he's certainly probably in the top five. And so it's a not-insignificant development.
FOSTER: And the way in which he died, what are the facts we know about that?
BERGEN: Well, it appears to be a CIA drone strike, and there have been 47 of those in 2012. The numbers have been going down, Max. In 2010, there were 122. Of course, these drone strikes are quite unpopular in Pakistan. The Pakistani parliament in April basically voted to say that they don't want these continue.
And certainly, the United States government seems to have taken some consideration of Pakistan's unhappiness with these drone strikes. They are declining in number, but they're still continuing.
FOSTER: OK, Peter, we'll be back with you in just a moment. But the US has killed dozens of top militants in drone strikes. These are a few of the most prominent. Last June, a drone strike in Pakistan killed Abu Yahya al-Libi. He's a Libyan citizen and al Qaeda's chief of staff.
In September 2011, a drone strike in Yemen killed American-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, a leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula. A month earlier, al Qaeda deputy chief, Atiyah abd al-Rahman was killed in the Pakistan tribal region of North Waziristan.
And in June 2011, the US senior al Qaeda leader Ilyas Kashmiri was killed by a missile strike from a US drone in South Waziristan. In 2009, a drone attack killed the leader of the Pakistan Taliban.
And the Taliban commander killed in today's strike had signed a peace deal with the Pakistani government. So, what's their reaction to the news? Well, let's ask Wajid Shamsul Hasan. He's Pakistan's high commissioner to the UK. Thank you for joining us.
WAJID SHAMSUL HASAN, PAKISTANI HIGH COMMISSIONER TO THE UK: Pleasure.
FOSTER: What was your reaction when you heard about this news?
HASAN: Well, our stance is very clear. We maintain that such strikes are a violation of our sovereignty, and we have been very persistent in presenting this argument to the United States, that such strikes do not produce the results they want. As a matter of fact, they end up killing more civilians than the high-value targets.
And we have maintained that instead of striking yourself, what you should do is provide us drone technology and we'll use it properly and in a properly identified places where we think people are hiding.
FOSTER: In terms of Nazir, was it a good thing or a bad thing that he was killed?
HASAN: Well, I won't talk about puzzles, whether it is a good or bad thing. It's about the status of al Qaeda, whether we -- what sort of hierarchical position he had. But I don't know much about it, because all these are mullahs and you can -- they are sort of generic names, not of -- and the generic names of those who have a franchise.
FOSTER: But this one seems to be a bit different, because there seems to be a suggestion that he could have been open to talk to the Pakistani government, and there could have been some sort of negotiation between him and officials in Pakistan. But that hasn't had a chance to be pursued.
HASAN: You know that on both sides, talks are being pursued by the Iran government, and we release some of the Taliban prisoners from Pakistani jails at the demand of the Iran government. So, talks are on between the two governments and also between various factions.
So again, we would not like to comment on whether he was having talks with Pakistan or not because we are not yet sure whether he was having talks with us or not.
FOSTER: In terms of the problems with these drone strikes, you talk about the number of civilians that are killed. There are, inevitably, some that do that. Is that the fundamental problem with them that you have?
HASAN: No, this is definitely a fundamental problem, but it directly hits our sovereignty. It's a violation of the United Nations charter, and it also infuriates our people.
FOSTER: How are they getting away with it, then, the Americans?
HASAN: Hm?
FOSTER: How are the Americans getting away with it, coming to your --
HASAN: Well, they're a world superpower, might is right, and they can get away with anything.
FOSTER: What sort of retaliation can you give them? Because this has been going on for years, as we just reported.
HASAN: No, we wouldn't like to retaliate, we will just protest to them, we will tell them not to do it, because it's not helping them at all, because they are becoming more unpopular in the region. In Pakistan, they are --
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: Because of the drone strikes specifically?
HASAN: The drone strikes -- various conditions have built up the political carriers of drone strikes, and that is what we have been telling the Americans since the democracy government came in power 2008, that you are -- your attacks, drone attacks, are proving counter-productive for democracy's survival.
FOSTER: What are the alternatives, though? Because you don't want them --
(CROSSTALK)
HASAN: Alternatives --
FOSTER: -- coming across your land in ground troops, do you?
HASAN: No. Again, they will not come. It would be sheer invasion of Pakistan and it would amount to a violation of the United Nations charter, and we'll take it to the United Nations as usual.
And we'll expect the United Nations to address this to out country, which has suffered so much on account of this war, which has now gone beyond 30 years, and we have lost hundreds of thousands of people, both civilians and we have got 7,000 soldiers in general that have been killed, 40,000 civilians have been killed, including the people who have been innocent people who have been killed in drone strikes.
FOSTER: Shamsul Hasan, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.
HASAN: Pleasure.
FOSTER: We're just going to go back to Peter, because obviously Pakistan is an important country to the United States right now, and the relationship is doing -- is coming under a lot of criticism in Pakistan. You don't want the Pakistani people turning against the Americans, do you?
BERGEN: Well, that's true. Support for the United States is at record low levels in Pakistan. It's never been high, but they're looking at around 10 percent favorable views of the United States in Pakistan right now.
And as the high commissioner said, it's because the issues of civilian casualties is one thing, but really it's, I think, the issue of Pakistani national sovereignty. We at the New American Foundation do a fairly careful count of the actual civilian casualty rate, and we're finding that it's actually dropped quite precipitously.
Under the George W. Bush administration, at one point, 2004 to 2007, it was around 60 percent. Under Obama, it's dropped to around 2 percent. That's still civilians being killed, but the drones fly for longer, they're much -- they have smaller payloads, they're able to discriminate better, there's better intelligence.
But that said, at the end of the day, it is Pakistan, it is their country, and the Pakistani parliament has very unequivocally voted to say that they don't want the United States to continue with these attacks.
But as you yourself pointed out, Max, the Pakistani government doesn't necessarily control some of these areas, so in the absence of the ability to go after these people on the ground, you're really left with drones.
Now, obviously, if we could get -- if the United States could get more Pakistani buy-in, that would be a good thing, and you could imagine a day where these -- these kinds of attacks are much more of a joint operation. But right now, that's not the case.
FOSTER: Peter Bergen, thank you very much, indeed. Do stay with CONNECT THE WORLD. Next up, how a form of autism is helping these German job-seekers find work.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: The jobless numbers in Spain may have increased in 2012, but the holiday period has seen a positive shift in employment. The country's monthly jobs report showed 59,000 fewer people requested unemployment benefits in December. That's a drop of 1.2 percent.
Still, according to the most recent quarterly figures, Spain's overall jobless rate is still over 25 percent, the highest in the eurozone.
Conversely, Germany, which boasts one of the lowest unemployment rates in Germany, saw a slight increase in jobless numbers last month: 88,000 more people were looking for work in December, pushing the unemployment rate up to 6.7 percent.
CNN's Frederik Pleitgen met one group of German workers who may have well been amongst those statistics if not for a Berlin company which sought them out for their unique skills.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, "RAIN MAN": How much is 4,343 times 1,234?
DUSTIN HOFFMAN AS RAYMOND BABBITT, "RAIN MAN": 5-3-5-9-2-6-2.
TOM CRUISE AS CHARLIE BABBITT, "RAIN MAN": He's a genius, right?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the late 1980s, the movie "Rain Man" showed a worldwide audience that people with autism not only have deficits, but also often huge talents.
While Hollywood may have oversimplified the issue, there are links to the real world. Because of their condition, people with autism often have trouble integrating into the working world. Now, a Berlin company wants to give people with a form of Autism known as Asperger's Syndrome new opportunities.
The firm is called Auticon and is training dozens to become software testers. Philip von der Linden is one of the new hires. He says it is the first time he truly feels valued as an employee.
PHILIP VO DER LINDEN, SOFTWARE TESTER TRAINEE: That is what makes life valuable, to be needed. And if what you can do is appreciated, and if what seen to be weakness is turned into an asset.
PLEITGEN: Management at Auticon says they've found that some people with Asperger's have a knack for finding patterns and flaws in gigantic calculations, and that makes them perfect software testers.
Owner Dirk Mueller-Remus founded the company when his own son was diagnosed with Asperger's.
DIRK MUELLER-REMUS, FOUNDER, AUTICON: Our guys have a lot of skills, in concentration, analytical, logical thinking, and things like that. And we are sure about that the industries, the IT industry, will have benefits.
PLEITGEN: But only about 15 percent are employed in the private sector, according to the German government. That's largely because of their difficulties with social interactions. That's why Auticon has job coaches to help its employees with customer relations, something psychologists say is trying to give Asperger autistics a chance in the working world.
ISABEL DZIOBEK, FREE UNIVERSITY BERLIN: They do look at the assets that people with autism have and try to construct or to basically develop work conditions around that so that the autistic individuals can use their skills, at the same time reducing social demands.
PLEITGEN: In the movie "Rain Man," the character's skills are used to make a lot of money gambling in Las Vegas. Auticon's goals are more down- to-earth, not only making a profit, but they say making a difference in the lives of their workers.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: For a closer look at Asperger's Syndrome, I'm joined by Sarah Lambert, head of policy at the National Autistic Society here in the UK. Thank you for joining us. First of all, were there any cliches in what we've been hearing there?
SARAH LAMBERT, HEAD OF POLICY, NATIONAL AUTISTIC SOCIETY: I think there are obviously a lot of stereotypes around Asperger's Syndrome in terms of lots of people think that people with Asperger's Syndrome do have special skills, which is not always the case. It's only a small percentage of people with Asperger's Syndrome that will have savant skills, as they're known.
But in terms of employment, there are lots of things that people with Asperger's Syndrome can contribute and want to contribute to society, they just need the support in order to be able to do that. And so, initiatives like the one you showed in that clip are really useful in ensuring that people with Asperger's Syndrome can get the support that they need in the workplace in order to contribute effectively to society.
FOSTER: You do often hear about these stories about this attention to detail. Have you got any -- what's your best guess at why there is that existent with people with Asperger's?
LAMBERT: Well, one of the key difficulties for people with autism and Asperger's Syndrome is around social imagination, so people with autism find it difficult to have flexibility of thought and to kind of predict what's going to happen next.
And so quite often, a significant number of people with autism enjoy repetitive activities, so for that group of people with Asperger's Syndrome, undertaking some of the activities that we ourselves would find boring and wouldn't be able to repeatedly do can actually be an asset to the workplace.
FOSTER: And they train themselves in being very focused on one thing as well, being able to concentrate on one thing?
LAMBERT: One of the -- one of the parts of having Asperger's Syndrome for some people is some people will develop a particular interest and will become very, very interested in that, which can also, if you can use that interest and steer that in the workplace, it can be a very big asset to employers as well.
FOSTER: It must be very positive to hear stories like that where the positive side of a condition, if I can call it that, are being sold, because that helps other people with their perception of this.
LAMBERT: Absolutely. Within the UK, similar job statistics as those in Germany, our research at the National Autistic Society found that just 15 percent of adults with autism are in full-time employment.
Yet 79 percent of those who are on active work benefits are saying that they really wanted to work, but they just need that little bit of extra help in order to get through the -- first of all get through the interview process and get through the application process.
And then once in the workplace, to deal with some of the complications of social interactions and the other difficulties that they might face in terms of organizing themselves and getting through the day.
FOSTER: I guess there's always fear of the unknown, isn't it?
LAMBERT: Absolutely, yes, definitely.
FOSTER: In terms of that awareness.
LAMBERT: It's very much about awareness. We've been doing a lot of good work with Lord Freud, the -- one of the ministers at the Department of Work and Pensions in the UK. He's very keen to improve awareness among employers, and it's just getting a bit of that awareness.
And a lot of the things that employers can do to help people with autism in the workplace are actually good management practices more widely, so making sure instructions are clearer, making sure that there's strong feedback mechanisms and good ways to do reviews with employees can not only help the employees with autism, but can actually help improve employment practices more widely.
FOSTER: And quickly, on "Rain Man," has that been a blessing or a curse, that movie?
LAMBERT: It's a bit of a mixture. It's something that people always refer to, but it doesn't -- it is quite a stereotype in terms of their condition.
FOSTER: OK. Sarah Lambert, thank you very much, indeed.
LAMBERT: OK.
FOSTER: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. When we come back, 2013 is just three days old, and already we've seen the New Year's first case of racism in the football arena. We'll show you how it all happens next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from London, welcome back, I'm Max Foster. A brand-new year but an age-old problem. Just three days into 2013 we're seeing another racist incident during a football match. Let's bring in "World Sport's" Amanda Davies. So, what was it this time?
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're seeing another racist incident, but people are suggesting that this incident that happened today in Italy might be a watershed moment, because for the first time, we've seen a top-flight player stop play and walk off the field, having been subjected to racist abuse. So, as a result, the football match had to be canceled.
It happened in Italy, as I said. It was Milan's Kevin-Prince Boateng who was being subjected to racial abuse during a friendly game against an Italian fourth division side. As you saw, he kicked the ball into the stands, took his shirt off, and proceeded to walk off the pitch.
His teammates, then, followed. And they're seeing something of a movement in recent times by players to take this issue into their own hands. We had Mario Balotelli at the European championships in Poland and Ukraine saying that that was exactly what he would do if he were subjected to racism during a game.
The Dutch team said that they were going to do the same. Basically, players feeling that the footballing organizations like UEFA and FIFA haven't in the past stepped up and done enough to stop this problem. The sanctions, they feel, have been too meaningless, and financial sanctions to clubs run $100,000, which to a football club or a national association, really doesn't mean anything.
One of the big criticisms of the financial sanctions is it doesn't mean anything to a supporter sitting in the stands. They're the people who are hurling this racist abuse. If an association gets fined, what does it matter to them. So, this step works because --
FOSTER: The authorities have to back it up.
DAVIES: You would think they do. The Italians are going to investigate this. The problem with this is that there are a lot of people who are sitting there, have gone for a nice day out, paid good money to go and see the football match, and they are suffering, of course.
But a couple of the Milan players have spoken out after this and said they understand that, but hopefully, there is a longer-term gain from these actions today. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MASSIMILIANO ALLEGRI, MILAN COACH (through translator): We have to stop it with these uncivilized gestures. This country, Italy, has to improve in this manner. It has to become a more civilized and intelligent country.
I'm disappointed and saddened, but I don't think we had any other choice, and I hope the same thing would happen in the championships from the minor leagues to Serie A. So, I am sorry once again, but I hope this uncivilized act does not ever happen again.
MASSIMO AMBROSINI, MILAN CAPTAIN (through translator): We are really sorry. Because of a few people, many other people have been affected who came to see us play, to see a team like Milan play. But a strong message needed to be made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIES: The guys are saying that they're hoping this will be an example that is set, now, for players in the future. The thing with this match, it's a great move, and a lot of people have come out and supported it, but it was a friendly.
The question remains whether players in a Champions League qualifier or, indeed, a World Cup game would get up and do it. That's a completely different matter, because those games have serious consequences and implications, both financial and everything else.
FOSTER: Yes, and who heard it, was it only one person that heard it, how do you prove it? It causes a lot of repercussions, doesn't it?
DAVIES: It does.
FOSTER: Amanda -- OK, thank you very much, indeed.
In New Zealand, some astonishing help for a speedboat engulfed in flames, meanwhile. It came from another boat using a very unusual technique. Jeanne Moos shows us the big splash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When a vessel catches fire, the best way to put it out is probably with a hose. But when a boat is aflame on a little lake in New Zealand and there's no hose in sight, this is a sight for sore eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing?
(SPEED BOAT ENGINE REVVING)
MOOS: Two men doused the flames with the spray from their speedboat. Hayden Oliver caught it on tape.
HAYDEN OLIVER, VIDEOTAPED SPEEDBOAT DOUSING FLAMES (via telephone): Yes, it was crazy.
MOOS (on camera): The maneuver was performed not once --
(SPEEDBOAT ENGINE REVVING)
MOOS: But four times.
MOOS (voice-over): Someone called emergency services, but it took 25 minutes for fire trucks to reach Lake Lyndon, and by then, the speedboat had done its trick, impressing even dispatch manager on duty Riwai Grace.
MOOS (on camera): What do you call that technique that they used?
RIWAI GRACE, DISPATCH MANAGER (via telephone): I call it ingenious.
MOOS (voice-over): Online admirers said it was as if David Hasselhoff from "Baywatch" were at the wheel, or James Bond. Except in his movies, 007 tends to set fires --
(EXPLOSION)
MOOS: -- rather than put them out. The speedboat even towed the burned-up craft to the landing. Its occupant had jumped overboard and made it safely to shore.
Though the boat was a complete wreck, at least its 25 gallons of fuel didn't blow up and start a brush fire, thanks to the speedboat spray --
OLIVER: It's almost like he practiced it.
MOOS (on camera): The fire dispatch manager had a message for the mystery speedboaters, delivered in the lingo of native New Zealanders.
GRACE: Just -- "pakipaki," which is like "well-done" in Maori, New Zealand.
MOOS (voice-over): Pakipaki, Mr. Bond.
SEAN CONNERY AS JAMES BOND, "FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE": There's a saying in England: where there's smoke, there's fire.
MOOS: In this case, where there's fire, now there's only smoke. SOS, splash our ship.
Jeanne Moos, CNN.
GRACE: Pakipaki.
MOOS: New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Time for tonight's Parting Shots, a moving image that captures the miracle of life has gone viral on the web. It is a truly amazing shot. A man in the US state of Arizona snapped this photo of his wife when she was giving birth via cesarean-section. You can see the tiny baby's hand actually reaching up from the womb to grasp the doctor's finger.
The father didn't notice the stunning moment at first, and here's how he describes it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDY ATKINS, FATHER: The doctor called me over and said, "Hey, she's grabbing my finger!" So, I just ran over there and just grabbed the shot, and I was just in awe looking at it. It was such an amazing picture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Their daughter was born ten weeks ago, but they say they didn't share the photo until now because they thought they'd get negative comments. In fact, an outpouring of admiration and thousands of "likes" on Facebook. So, it turned out well.
I'm Max Foster. That was CONNECT THE WORLD, thank you so much for watching.
END
