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Connect the World
Protests In Pakistan Continue; Germany Sees Slower Growth Than Expected
Aired January 15, 2013 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MAX FOSTER, HOST: Tonight on Connect the World, wanted for corruption an arrest warrant is issued for the prime minister of Pakistan as yet another political crisis unfolds in the country. This as thousands are out on the streets demanding the government to clean up its act.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World.
FOSTER: Tonight, we ask the former Pakistani ambassador to the UK if this signals the beginning of a revolution or just more political theater.
Also ahead...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'll have more on troubling numbers from Germany where it seems as though Europe's economic powerhouse might be running out of steam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: And Oprah Winfrey tells the world about her interview with Lance Armstrong.
First tonight, critics in Pakistan call it a soft coup against democracy. The supreme court issued a ruling today that turns up the pressure on a government already under fire. It ordered the arrest of prime minister Raja Pervez Ashraf and 15 others accusing them of corruption. The order comes as tens of thousands of protesters rally in Islamabad demanding the government immediately step down.
Some Pakistanis say it's no coincidence that these things are happening at the same time just months before general elections.
CNN's Saima Mohsin is following developments for us tonight in Islamabad.
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Max, not a great day at the office for Pakistan's prime minister. He's been having to firefight a lot of issues in Pakistan over the past week starting with the dissolution of the assembly in the southern most province of Baluchistan. And then today the supreme court of Pakistan, who has been looking at allegations of kickbacks surrounding eventual power project deal in Pakistan for a few year ago now, has announced and asked police to issue arrest warrants to several people including the then minister for water and power. Today, the prime minister of Pakistan Raja Pervez Ashraf.
Now while he's been issued with an arrest warrant and being placed on the (inaudible) control list all the while he's having to deal with this. I don't know if you can hear these speeches in the background, that is keeping the protesters here going. They're on the doorstep of the parliament, the presidential house. This main boulevard is thronging with protesters all leading to the governmental building (inaudible). I went down there to speak to some of them to find out why they're here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOHSIN: All the shops here have been shut. This is two days running now as this main boulevard in the center of Islamabad has been brought to a standstill. Many of the people here have chosen to bed down in front of these shops taking shelter beneath these buildings. But over there, on the main boulevard down the center there's a real carnival atmosphere as people refused to move.
These women have joined forces. They've joined hands to form a human chain to keep everyone inside the inner sanctum of this protest, to keep them safe and secure. Men, women, and children are here, families are here. They're prepared to stay the night. I've been talking to them about why are you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm coming for the change not for myself, and change for my baby's future (inaudible) need change.
MOHSIN: These are your children, right sir?
And why are you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) all politics has been (inaudible)
MOHSIN: We want change, that is the motto, that is the chant we've been hearing here. We want change.
As these families with their young children are prepared to spend the night, they're saying they're prepared to spend a week, months, as long as it takes.
This so-called people's march has taken over the air waves here in Pakistan. All the national networks on radio and television are here to stay. They're covering it for the last few days. Beyond that, our container trucks stopping everyone from moving forward towards all those government buildings.
Take a look at this, all of these people are lined up against this main boulevard. They're here for Tuhir al-Qadri's speeches. And when he's not able to talk, well then other people set up stages. I don't know if you can see beyond that, men and women take to that stage to keep the momentum going, to keep the pace up, to keep people here. And that song you're hearing, that is especially commissioned, is calling for change.
Now while protesters here say they're in it for the long haul, they're here to stay until Qadri's demands are met, others have raised concerns of what they're dubbing a soft coup against the democratic government of Pakistan. Human rights activists say that they're concerned that the government is an embattled one. They want to see this become the first ever democratic government of Pakistan to make it through to a full term. If it survives, it will have to last until March -- Max.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, Qadri is demanding an end to government corruption, a problem that virtually all Pakistanis agree must be addressed. And yet not everyone is convinced of his motives.
Jonathan Mann has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pakistani cleric Mohamed Tuhir al- Qadri can draw a crowd. Just days after his return last month from self- imposed exile, tens of thousands of people gathered in Lahore to hear the call to join his movement, (inaudible), change the system.
Qadri was still living in Canada in 2010 when he drew attention in Pakistan and around the Muslim world with a fatwa, a religious judgment that said Islam never justifies violence against innocent victims refusing terrorism any basis in religion.
MOHAMED AL-QADRI, PAKISTANI CLERIC: Terrorism is terrorism, violence if violence. It has no place in Islamic teachings.
MANN: Having addressed the extremists, Qadri is now back home taking on his country's politicians. He calling for sweeping political reforms as Pakistan prepares for elections later this year.
Many Pakistani leaders and lawmakers have long been accused of corruption by the people of Pakistan. President Asif Ali Zardari spent years behind bars on corruption charges and has long been derided as Mr. 10 Percent, a reference to alleged kickbacks on government contracts despite his claims on innocence.
Qadri has taken to the internet and the airwaves, running television ads and making daily public appearances. He's issued a broad set of demands to clean up politics. Pakistan's politicians are choosing sides for and against with his critics accusing him of working on behalf of the country's powerful military, a claim Qadri denies.
He's vowing to turn Islamabad into the world's largest Tahrir Square. Pakistan is waiting to see what happens.
Jonathan Mann, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, so are we witnessing a revolution in the making in Pakistan, or is this simply political theater. Or perhaps as some suggest an orchestrated attempt by the military to disrupt the upcoming elections?
Well, we're going to bring in Akbar Ahmed. He's a former Pakistani ambassador to the UK. Thank you so much for joining us.
First of all, do you think, actually, these two events that we've been talking about are linked?
AKBAR AHMED, FORMER PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO UK: They are linked, Max. In fact, we need to see the context within which they're taking place. There's an air of expectancy in Pakistan today and an air of despondency. Pakistanis really feel that we are at the brink now. There's troubles on the borders, both eastern and western with the skirmishes with India, in the internal situation in terms of law and order has collapsed. The economic situation is dire. And Qadri in fact is asking for (inaudible) on this count.
At the same time, people in Pakistan -- a lot of them believe in (inaudible). It is believed he has been given a wink and a nod perhaps by the establishment in the army, which is to push this government into going home and thereby allowing a national government to form which would oversee the elections, because people are really saying we cannot have seven years more of this government.
FOSTER: So you have a certain mood developing, isn't there, a mass sort of movement some suggesting in Pakistan. Some people going as far as saying it's going to lead to Pakistan's Tahrir Square.
Is that an exaggeration do you think?
AHMED: It is exaggeration. It's easy to make these analogies, but we must remember that in Pakistan we do have two established parties. You have the Muslim League. You have the PPP. And you have some important parties emerging: the (inaudible) Party, there's the MQM in Karachi, there are the (inaudible) in the frontier in Baluchistan and so on.
So you do have already a landscape flooded with parties. And therefore (inaudible) Qadri to turn up and want to create space will depend a lot on his personal charisma and little more. He will not be able to mobilize the masses as did the people in Tahrir Square where all of Egypt was determined to get rid of the dictator and that was it. Here it's more diffuse. People are fed up of the breakdown of law and order and they want change.
FOSTER: Well, that's one pressure, isn't it? The other is economic pressure that's coming out of this. The political chaos already having an effect on the economy there.
Let's just have a look at some figures today that we got from the Karachi stock exchange. It fell sharply, actually, on news of the supreme court arrest order. The main index lost 500 points in just 10 minutes. It ended the day down more than 3 percent. And that combined with these protests is certainly going to create pressure on the government to make some sort of change.
AHMED: It is, because a central government's worst nightmare is an economic collapsed coupled with a political collapse in terms of law and order. So for the plus side, this is one of the few governments that has lasted so long in terms of a democratic order. And we would all want this democratic order not to be removed abruptly or out of the constitution. So it's tenure must be completed.
At the same time, as I pointed out, Pakistanis are fed up. They really want their lives to be stable. They want security at home. They don't want to be blown up by the terrorists or the militants or by some ethnic group or by some sectarian group. You're really seeing Pakistan at this moment in time passing through a very, very difficult time.
FOSTER: We'll be watching it closely. Akbar Ahmed in Washington, thank you very much indeed for joining us with your analysis.
Still to come tonight, austerity bites. The staggering number of British children going to school hungry. That story is up next.
Plus, more troops for Mali. Inhabitants of Bamako applaud the international push against rebels. We'll have a report from the capital.
And ask and you shall receive, Facebook unveils a new way to find out more about your friends.
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FOSTER: You're watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me Max Foster. Welcome back to you.
Now more worrying signs for Europe with Germany reporting worse than expected growth figures. After saving off the sluggishness of its neighbors, Europe's biggest economy grow by just .7 percent in 2012, that's well below the 3 percent growth seen in 2011. The German government will announce its forecast for this year tomorrow. But according to ministry sources, growth expectations have been slashed to just .4 percent.
CNN's Frederik Pleitgen has more for us from Berlin.
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PLEITGEN: 2012 was not got a good year for the Germany economy. On the whole, the economy only grew by about 0.7 percent. Also for the final quarter of 2012 it seems as though the economy even slightly contracted.
The big problem for the German economy has been exports, especially in the final quarter of the year. What happened is that German companies, especially in the industrial sectors, faced really a very little demand, especially from Europe and of course especially from southern Europe. They say that demand literally broke down there, especially in the second half of the year.
Now one of the things that German exporters try to do is they try to offset that by exporting more into emerging economies like China, but also of course like India as well. They say that worked to a certain extent but also of course the Chinese economy for a couple of months of the past year was not doing as well as a lot of people had predicted and that also very troubling for a lot of German exporters, another factor that we drew way down on Germany's overall results for 2012.
Now for 2013, we're expecting the economic outlook from the German government for tomorrow, for Wednesday. One of the things that we are hearing is that the German government has slashed the prospects for the German economy. They're expecting about 1 percent of growth, not it seems as though they're only expecting about 0.4 percent.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, one adviser to Chancellor Angela Merkel has told CNN he thinks Germany will at best face stagnation this year. Professor Peter Bofinger is a member of the council of economic experts and here is what he told CNN a short while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER BOFINGER, ECONOMIC ADVISER TO GERMAN CHANCELLOR: It's in my view it's not clear that the recession in the euro area will remain as small as it is predicted right now. I think there are serious downside risks for the euro area. And so in Germany we could also see a situation where we do not have (inaudible) but even a slight recession in this year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, Germany has been one of Europe's more robust economies during the crisis. So, too, the UK. But as Atika Shubert found out, families here are also feeling the pinch of austerity.
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ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Every school day at (inaudible) primary, up to 50 children come to school early, not for class but for a free breakfast. Britain's recession has hit families here hard and principal Jeanette Brumby says kids are suffering.
JEANETTE BRUMBY, PRINCIPAL: They're hungry. They're not focused on their learning and simply because they're not getting any breakfast.
SHUBERT: London is one of the wealthiest cities in the world, but this school is in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the city. And teachers here like so many across London are telling us that they're seeing kids come to school hungry. In fact, a recent report by the London assembly surveyed teachers. And 50 percent of those teachers said that families are telling them they cannot afford to buy breakfast for their own children.
In fact, 61 percent of the teachers surveyed are taking money out of their own pocket to feed the children.
So, Hazelting Primary (ph) joined up with Magic Breakfast, a charity that provides a free morning meal to needy kids. They provide 6,000 British school children with a free breakfast. And Carmel McConnell is the founder.
CARMEL MCCONNELL, MAGIC BREAKFAST FOUNDER: When you think about barriers to education, hunger as a barrier to education you don't think England. But sadly that's the case.
The children get the -- get their only hot meal is the food they get for school for one in four children in the UK. Pretty shocking.
SHUBERT: Often, parents will drop in for breakfast too and to chat with Principal Brumby.
BRUMBY: They talk to me sometimes about, well, I've got nothing in the cupboards in terms of the food. And therefore sometimes we give them food parcels and things like that. They're very honest with us. And they know to come to us if their house is cold or if there's no food.
SHUBERT: Misty Townsend has six kids. She told me by the time she's done paying bills, she has hardly anything left over for food.
MISTY TOWNSEND, PARENT: Not every day I can afford to get (inaudible) and give them something to eat. (inaudible) breakfast (inaudible) and get a full, healthy breakfast. As you can see my son, he loves it, the coming in the morning. More times at home he -- oh I want to go breakfast club. Oh, I don't want nothing to eat this morning, let's go to school.
SHUBERT: Zoie Morphie has three kids, is unemployed, and her attempts to find a job in the midst of a recession are not going well.
ZOIE MORPHIE, PARENT: It helps a lot, you know. It's breakfast (inaudible) then we'd have to struggle indoors even more.
If benefits are cut, then, you know, it helps -- it affects everybody who have got their own benefits in the same way. So, you know, I suppose then they'd have to start dinner club.
SHUBERT: And what about the kids? Big smiles and drawings of bananas and apples say it all. For many of them, breakfast really is the most important meal of the day.
Atika Shubert, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, Connect the World will be taking a closer look at the EuroZone financial woes this Thursday. Becky will be live from Greece where she'll take stock of where we are four years into the crisis, that's 9:00 pm London, 10:00 pm in Berlin, Thursday night, Connect the World. You can read Becky's thoughts on the pain being felt by Greeks on our blog as well CNN.com/connect.
Up next on Connect the World, the escalating battle for Mali, more troops are on their way. And France's president has been talking about the intervention. We're in Bamako next.
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FOSTER: You're watching Connect the World live from London. Welcome back. I'm Max Foster.
Now the international military response to the battle for Mali is growing. As France keeps up its air strikes against Islamist rebels, west African states are sending in troops. We'll take a closer look at the offensive. Nearly 1,700 French troops are involved. Many flew to Mali from military bases in France, other French forces already stationed in nearby Chad and neighboring Ivory Coast have arrived. Some 800 French troops are now on the ground in Mali.
African nations are also sending in troops. A UN backed force of some 3,300 is set to deploy. The first wave of troops is due to arrive tomorrow.
Journalist Lindsey Hilsum spoke to me a short time ago from Mali's capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LINDSEY HILSUM, JOURNALIST: Well, I've been out on the streets of Bamako today. And it's quite amazing, because people are selling French flags, people keep coming up and asking are you French, are you French? Wanting us to be French. And there's huge enthusiasm. People here were really frightened that this kind of harsh Sharia law that they have had in the north imposed by these jihadis groups affiliated with al Qaeda might come down here.
The jihadis started to move down here last week and the French came in and they've started to bomb. And this is just being met with massive enthusiasm. One man I spoke to even said that he didn't want the French to leave. He wouldn't mind being colonized by the French all over again.
FOSTER: So that's the story in the capital, but what information are you getting out of the north right now?
HILSUM: Well, I've been speaking to people who have family members in the north. There's one small town called Diabaly which the jihadis have taken over in the past 48 hours. One woman I met has an aunt there. She said that people have fled. There's been some burning of houses in the town. She didn't think there were too many casualties, but people have run out to hide in the bush. But there is fighting going on there between the jihadis and the Malian and French troops operating together.
Further north, the main towns which the jihadis control -- Timbuktu, Gao, and Kidal (ph), the jihadis have melted away. One woman I spoke to today said that people were dancing in the streets. I'm not sure if that's metaphorical or real. But she said that for the first time in nine months women are able to go out without a head scarf on and people can smoke. Because under the rule of the jihadis, if you were found with a cigarette you would be flogged. And so people now, even people who don't normally smoke, they're out there smoking just because they can.
FOSTER: And when we talk about the jihadis, what sort of people make up those armed groups from what you've managed to gather? Because there's some talk about child soldiers, but how prevalent are they?
HILSUM: Yes. There are child soldiers. According to Human Rights Watch, the jihadis have recruited children, some as young as 12, who have been fighting with them. And some of the roadblocks that the jihadis have up in that northern area, apparently those are demands by these children.
The jihadis have been there in this area for a long time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, French president Francois Hollande is defending the intervention in Mali as truly international mission. He spoke earlier today about the escalating response as he attended an energy conference in the UAE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: Many countries have provided us support -- transport planes, supply planes, sometimes more. And the Emirates will have to decide themselves what they want to do to support us.
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FOSTER: Well, here's a look now at some other stories making news this hour.
Syria's government is blaming rebels for an horrific attack on a university in Aleppo. Two blasts ripped through campus on the first day of exams. Syria's UN envoy says 82 people were killed. Opposition activists deny rebels are responsible. They say regime war planes struck the campus.
In addition to housing students, the university dorms are also sheltering families who have escaped the fighting in Aleppo, Homs and Hamaa.
If you don't know your Facebook friends well enough, the social network has just launched a search engine to help you find out more. A short time ago, chief executive Mark Zuckerberg announced the graph search function, describing it as a new way to make connections. This is an example, Facebook says users can search for information including friends who like trail running, road trips and dancing.
To find out if Facebook investors like it, I'm joined by Felicia Taylor who is live for us in New York.
It's complicated. I'm not on Facebook in same way as you are, I'm sure. So explain.
FELICIA TAYLOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I wouldn't be so sure there, Max. But this is the first major press event since the May IPO, so it is a big deal. And there was a lot of anticipation around it. You know, people were expecting them to come up with something really big, so this may be somewhat disappointing.
But nevertheless, they are rolling out this new type of search calling it graph search, or what some are referring to as social search. And as you said it allows users to basically filter through their friends information -- interests, photos, and places that they like more efficiently. It's different from a more traditional web search, because it's not new information, it's not like you're going to Google and searching for something different.
For example, if you were my Facebook friend, I could type in co- workers who live in London and you would show up in the search, but only if already we were friends.
Facebook says there need to be no changes to privacy settings. They were very clear about that. And obviously aware of those issues. They are required to be able to use this graph search. And you can really only access information that has already been out there.
But the question is, you know, how are they going to monetize it? Here's one possibility. Let's say you graph search which hotels Felicia likes in New York and then those hotels can come up and on the sidebar advertise rates and special et cetera.
So, did it live over the hype? We'll find out over the next few days as users try out graph search -- Max.
FOSTER: Felicia, thank you very much indeed.
Still to come on Connect the World, an article of faith, how a landmark ruling in a religious discrimination case could impact freedom of worship.
Oprah Winfrey has spoken about her interview with Lance Armstrong. We'll tell you what she let out about the disgraced cyclist's words.
All that and much more when Connect the World continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: A warm welcome to our viewers across Europe and around the world. I'm Max Foster. These are the latest world headlines from CNN.
Thousands of people staged an anti-corruption rally in the center of Pakistan's capital, Islamabad. The country's supreme court has ordered the arrests of the prime minister and a number of others, alleging they received illegal payments for projects.
Syria's UN envoy says 82 people were killed in an attack on a university in Aleppo. Two blasts ripped through the campus on the first day of exams. The government blamed rebels, but opposition activists say it was a regime airstrike.
France says it now has 800 troops on the ground in Mali to back an offensive against Islamist insurgents. West African nations say they're also sending troops with Nigerian soldiers expected in the next 24 hours. The offensive is trying to stop a rebel takeover of Mali's capital, Bamako.
Lance Armstrong's critics are reacting with a mixture of anger and vindication after word he's admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs. TV host Oprah Winfrey told CBS News that Armstrong came clean about the allegations during an interview that airs on Thursday.
Tonight, a landmark ruling. A top European court says a British Christian has the right to wear a cross at work. The victor says it was a long battle and sometimes a lonely one. Senior international correspondent Dan Rivers reports on the outcome of a case that sparked plenty of debate about religious belief, freedom of expression, and corporate image.
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DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For years, this tiny symbol of faith has been the subject of a huge legal battle. Nadia Eweida is a committed Christian. Her insistence on wearing this cross pitted her first against her employers, British Airways, and then the British government.
Six British courts ruled the airline was right to insist she took it off, but now finally, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled in her favor. She gave me her reaction.
NADIA EWEIDA, BRITISH AIRWAYS EMPLOYEE: Jubilant. I was absolutely ecstatic and very happy, and I was jumping up and down. It's significant for Christians because that means they will be allowed to wear their crosses in their workplace without fear of retribution or discrimination.
RIVERS: She says it was the intervention of the most senior leader of the Anglican Church, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in 2006 which forced British Airways to back down.
ROWAN WILLIAMS, ARCHBISHIP OF CANTERBURY: If BA is really saying or implying that the wearing of a cross in public is a source of offense, then I regard that as deeply offensive.
RIVERS: British Airways corporate image took a battering, and in 2007, Nadia was allowed to wear her cross at work. But she continued her legal battle against the British government, claiming it hadn't adequately protected her human rights. Now she's won, the ruling may have widespread ramifications for other cases.
It may undermine France's ban on the burqa, which generated angry demonstrations from Muslims, who want the right to wear the traditional Islamic clothing.
MARK ELLIS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL BAR ASSOCIATION: I have no doubt that those particular instances, those cases, will find themselves in front of this court eventually. And yes, the decision today will certainly have an impact on how the court interprets those cases.
RIVERS (on camera): Why did you feel so strongly that you should have the right to wear the cross?
EWEIDA: Because why should I be made to feel ashamed for wearing my cross or being told off for exercising what I thought was a civil liberty of manifesting my faith -- expression of my faith by wearing a Christian cross.
Other colleagues around me expressing their faith with wearing hijabs, Sikh bangles, turbans, so why pick on Christians or why pick on me? I would say that political correctness had gone mad.
RIVERS (voice-over): Dan Rivers, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Our Joshua is considered one of Britain's best-known commentators on the law. He joins me now here in our London studio. Thanks so much for joining us. Certainly she feels that this is part of something bigger and she's made a big impact on society, I guess, but has she?
JOSHUA ROZENBERG, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Well, she's right to say that she's won an important victory. I think it's the first time the British government has been defeated on the question of Article 9 of the Human Rights Convention, which protects the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion.
But don't forget, there were four cases decided today. She won, but three other applicants lost, including a nurse who wanted to wear a cross in hospitals with her uniform. The court said that on health and safety grounds she wasn't entitled to wear it.
And what the court has got to do is strike a balance. Everybody has the right to believe what they wish, but when they want to manifest their religious beliefs, when they want to wear it as clothing or take time off for religious holidays or not deal with gays, which was the concern of the other two cases today, then that right has to be balanced against other people's rights. And the people who were also taking their case lost today because that balance came down against them.
FOSTER: We've talked a lot about the burqa ban in France. This has clear parallels with that, doesn't it?
ROZENBERG: Well, it does up to a point. Obviously, there are great differences across Europe. This European Court of Human Rights covers 47 countries right across Europe, and what it stressed today is that each country has a broad measure of discretion, what the court calls a "margin of appreciation."
FOSTER: Which is country specific?
ROZENBERG: Which is country specific, and what this court is not going to do is interfere with the way that different countries within Europe set that balance between the right of an individual to manifest their religious belief and the right of other people, on grounds of protection of public order, health, or morals, or the protection of the right and freedom of others, to manifest their own beliefs.
FOSTER: It's interesting, though, isn't it? So, a burqa ban can exist in France, but not over the channel in the UK?
ROZENBERG: This court in Strasbourg in France is very sensitive to the fact that different countries have different religious faiths and different religious approaches, and it is not going to step in and say you can't have a ban on burqas, on religious clothing, in certain circumstances.
It's not going to do that readily. It's going to be very cautious, I think, because it realized that if it upsets too many countries and tries to tell them that their laws are inconsistent, it's overstepping the mark.
FOSTER: Do you think there has been some sort of consistency in the law on this, because people seem quite baffled by it? What have we learned about the legal system on these very subjective judgments?
ROZENBERG: Well, that's the whole point. It is subjective. And you see, in the case of Nadia Eweida, she wanted to wear a cross with her uniform as a British Airways check-in clerk.
Already at that time, British Airways allowed staff to wear a turban if they were Sikhs, they allowed Muslim women to wear the hijab. They were very willing to allow what you might think of as much more public manifestations of religious faith.
And they very quickly changed their policy within a few months to allow her to wear her cross, and the court said, well, if you balance their corporate image against her religious rights, it's clear that the English courts should have come down on her rights. It wasn't a great step.
But the other two cases today, which were involving people who said their religious faith didn't allow them to have dealings or to support homosexual rights, gay rights, they lost.
FOSTER: OK, Joshua, thank you very much, indeed. It's a fascinating case, isn't it? Well, the court's ruling has been a major talking point online today, with strong opinions on both sides of the debate.
Britain's prime minister, David Cameron tweeted, "Delighted that principle of wearing religious symbols at work has been upheld. People shouldn't suffer discrimination due to religious beliefs."
That National Secular Society, a British organization whose goal is to remove religious influence in policy-making said this: "OK, one case upheld, three cases lost. Reasons to be cheerful." And the group went on to say that 'religious people who feel elements of their job go against their conscience can always find employment that better matches their needs. That is true religious freedom."
And we saw this reaction from John Sentamu, an archbishop in the Church of England, "Whether people can wear a cross or pray with someone should not be something about which courts and tribunals have to rule."
This just into CNN: lawmakers in New York's state assembly have approved a new set of gun regulations. The measures are intended to fortify the state's existing assault weapons ban. It limits the number of bullets in magazines and strengthens rules that keep the mentally ill from obtaining firearms.
US president Barack Obama expected to unveil a package of gun control proposals, including a ban on assault weapons on Wednesday.
You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from London. Still to come, if you're looking for inspiration for the year ahead, take some lessons from this week's Leading Women. Their secrets to success coming up after the break.
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FOSTER: January is a time when many of us set goals for the year ahead, things like healthier diet, more family time, and success in our profession. Well, this week, to help inspire you, we ask our two Leading Women what they think is the key to a successful career. Becky and Felicia Taylor report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A key contributor to Turkey's booming economy is the leading conglomerate, Sabanci Holding.
GULER SABANCI, CHAIRWOMAN AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, SBANCI HOLDING: Our banking has started with my grandfather, and I'm proud to say that we have been one of the leading Turkish private banks all through this time of the republic.
ANDERSON: Since 2004, Guler Sabanci has led the company as its chairwoman and managing director. The Sabancis own a majority stake in the company, and as a symbol of brand unity and identity, the subsidiaries have the signature SA denoting the family name. The multibillion-dollar Sabanci Group continues to expand.
The family patriarch, Haci Omer Sabanci, started the company first with a cotton mill.
SABANCI: My grandfather was a passionate man. He was a self-made man, and he was a genius, really. So, what I learned from him is, I think, what we all learned from him. You need to have a goal, you need to work hard, and you need to believe in yourself.
ANDERSON: And as an executive, she's also come to understand the importance of building consensus.
SABANCI: In a the very cooperative work that we are doing, we are a team. I have never thought in my life that I could do something on my own. Never. I had dreams, I had ideas, I had -- but I have to convince people.
ANDERSON: Guler Sabanci was the first grandchild in a male-dominated family line. Her grandparents had six sons. Her own father died early. Sabanci grew up among her uncles in a large extended family.
ANDERSON (on camera): You haven't married and you haven't had kids.
SABANCI: No.
ANDERSON: Is that because you've gone at your work to the detriment of other things, or is that a choice you've made? How would you explain that?
SABANCI: I think both. I think both. It was a choice and both that my hands are full. It was a choice, yes.
ANDERSON: Do you regret that at all?
SABANCI: No. Never. Never. Never. I don't have time for regrets. I have been very fortunate, as I've said, on my life of having the opportunity of founding a university, which gives me the chance of being with young people. It's very satisfying.
FELICIA TAYLOR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): I'm Felicia Taylor. Artist Bharti Kher also finds satisfaction in what she does. Here she is at work in her large studio in Delhi. She's a known figure in India's contemporary art scene and beyond. Her works are in museums and private collections in many countries.
BHARTI KHER, ARTIST: My business has grown because I work with really good galleries.
TAYLOR: But Kher says that's only part of the story.
KHER: You can't turn (expletive deleted) to gold. You just can't. Gold is gold, and good art is good art. You can get a great break because you met somebody. You can do it twice. You can't do it 20 times.
TAYLOR: It's been more than 20 years since Kher began her journey, starting in London, where she was born to Indian parents. Becoming an artist was definitely the road less-traveled in her community.
KHER: In fact, all my cousins, friends, the people that we knew grow up as Asians have all -- are all doctors, accountants, lawyers. I think people are very surprised when we said, well, we're going to go to art school. I did, so did my sister, actually.
TAYLOR: In 1992, after graduating with a degree in art, Kher ventured out.
KHER: Honestly, I kind of tossed a coin. It was New York or New Delhi. I'd no intention of staying in India. I'm going to travel around the country. And couldn't travel around the country, actually, because I was too afraid.
TAYLOR: Within two weeks, she met her husband and stayed. Today, her life and art are infused with India, from bindis to saris, all are found in her work.
KHER: I wouldn't be using the bindis or if I -- I would not -- certainly not be using saris if I was not living in India.
TAYLOR: Kher's husband, Subodh Gupta, is a successful artist in his own right. We meet them in Abu Dhabi for their first talk on the same platform. Kher says there's a bit of curiosity about their relationship.
KHER: Curious to understand how two very large egos live in the same house and manage, and I think having children keeps you very grounded.
SUBODH GUPTA, ARTIST AND KHER'S HUSBAND: I like it. I like it because she's a very good judge for my work.
TAYLOR: Kher points to another side to being life partners and artists.
KHER: You get to travel together, meet lovely people. You can spend all night talking about art and the things you like doing, so that's an advantage to being in the same business. You get to do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Find out more on all of CNN's Leading Women series online, that's cnn.com/leadingwomen. You'll also see our list of eight women you should follow on Twitter.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. When we come back, Lance Armstrong reportedly tells Oprah Winfrey that he did dope, but what did she really find surprising about her interview with the disgraced cyclist?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Oprah Winfrey called it the biggest interview of her career. Certainly one of the most hyped. Don Riddell joins us now for more on her talk with Lance Armstrong. Have you managed to work out what he did say yet?
DON RIDDELL, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: I think we're all going to have to wait until Thursday and Friday night for that, Max. But Oprah Winfrey is giving viewers a preview of her upcoming interview with Lance Armstrong.
The talk show host sat down with him in Texas on Monday to discuss the doping allegations that he's been trying to outpedal for more than a decade. Elizabeth Corridan has the story in this special report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH CORRIDAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days before her interview with disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong is set to air, Oprah Winfrey says the seven-time Tour de France winner now acknowledge use of performance-enhancing drugs. She spoke with CBS this morning.
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: I would say he did not come clean in the manner that I expected. It was surprising to me. I would say that for myself, my team, all of us in the room, we were mesmerized and riveted by some of his answers.
CORRIDAN: Winfrey says the interview lasted for two and a half hours and she did not get to all 112 questions she'd prepared.
WINFREY: I think the most important questions and the answers that people around the world had been waiting to hear were answered.
CORRIDAN: The talk show host is not going into too much detail, insisting the interview will speak for itself.
WINFREY: I choose not to characterize. I would rather -- people make their own decisions about whether he was contrite or not. I felt that he was thoughtful. I thought that he was serious.
CORRIDAN: Armstrong is banned from competing in his sport for life following an October 2012 report which found overwhelming evidence he was directly involved in a doping program. He's been stripped of his seven Tour titles.
Armstrong's interview airs in two parts beginning Thursday night on Winfrey's network, OWN.
I'm Elizabeth Corridan reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIDDELL: And that, Max, is a change of plan. Originally the idea was that this would be a 90-minute interview to be aired on Thursday night, but Oprah Winfrey said it was so good and there was so much incredible content in there that they really didn't feel they could cut anything. Hence now Thursday and Friday nights, and apparently we won't miss anything.
FOSTER: OK, well, we'll be fascinated to see when it actually comes out, that interview. But on day two of the Australian Open, as well, Serena Williams got a bit of a scare.
RIDDELL: Yes, day three will be starting in just a few hours' time, but Serena Williams, who goes into this event really as the overwhelming favorite to win a sixth Australian Open title did, as you say, have a bit of a scare in her first round match against Edina Gallovits-Hall.
Despite the fact that it was a six-love, six-love win, which is known in the business as a double bagel, she rolled her ankle in that match and was down on the court for quite some time requiring treatment. She says afterwards that she's OK, she'll play through the pain, and that actually unless the injury is fatal, then she'll be OK for the rest of the tournament.
She of course had a superb end to her last season, Max, and this, if she comes out on top in this event, would be her third consecutive Grand Slam victory.
She, of course, is the third seed in the women's draw. Let's talk about the third seed in the men's draw. Andy Murray also had a very comfortable introduction to this tournament this year. He was a straight sets winner against Holland's Robin Hasse, 6-3, 6-1, 6-3, the score in that match.
Murray comes into this event with an awful lot of confidence and optimism, given that he managed to break his Grand Slam duck toward the end of last year by winning the US Open.
FOSTER: Good stuff, Don. Thank you very much, indeed. More on that, more on the story of Lance Armstrong as well at the bottom of the hour, and -- plus news of Europe's Ryder Cup captain with Don.
In tonight's Parting Shots, we've seen the miserable faces, heard the grumbles, and probably have been victims of it ourselves. The flu has been particularly virulent this season. As Jeanne Moos explains, the bug has also found its way to Hollywood.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here's a symptom seen in people who don't have the flu -- they find flu jokes funny.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": This flu season is so bad, Hugh Hefner is washing down his Viagra with Theraflu. That's how bad it is.
(DRUM RIM SHOT)
(LAUGHTER)
MOOS: Even the glamour of stardom can't ward off the flu. There was Jennifer Lawrence at the Golden Globes protecting Ryan Seacrest by not shaking his hand.
RYAN SECREST, RED CARPET COMMENTATOR, GOLDEN GLOBE AWARDS: Thanks, Jennifer.
JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: Yes. I don't want to shake your hand.
SEACREST: Then I'll help --
LAWRENCE: I have the flu, I'm sorry.
SEACREST: Oh, you have the flu.
LAWRENCE: Yes, sorry.
SEACREST: All right, here. If you fall, lean on me.
LAWRENCE: OK.
MOOS: But three seconds later, she forget her scruples and latched onto the next guy who held out his hand. Stars, they're sick like us, spewing germs.
HUGH JACKMAN, ACTOR: (coughs) Thank you, Hollywood -- sorry, I have -- I'm tail end of this flu, and I was kicking myself for not getting the flu shot, but it appears, actually, you don't need one. I feel great.
MOOS: Yes, but will Hugh Jackman's wife be feeling great after that double kiss.
AMY POEHLER, HOST, GOLDEN GLOBE AWARDS: Meryl Streep is not here tonight. She has the flu, and I hear she's amazing in it.
(LAUGHTER)
MOOS: At least Meryl Streep apparently had the sense to stay home. Jimmy Kimmel created a public service announcement aimed at workers who won't leave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you still here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your sick (expletive deleted) and go home!
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Go the hell home!
MOOS: If you do happen to be home with the flu, here's a Facebook app for you: Help! My friend gave me the flu!
MOOS (on camera): The point is, you feel really lousy, so you want to blame someone for making you feel that way.
LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: Yes!
MOOS (voice-over): The app tries to find which of your Facebook friends made you sick by examining their posts. Perhaps they wrote of having symptoms before you, says CNN Money tech reporter Laurie Segall.
SEGALL: Evidence of sneezes, vomiting.
MOOS (on camera): Oh, this is ridiculous!
MOOS (voice-over): Ridiculous but fun.
SEGALL: Oh my -- Erica!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erica!
MOOS: But instead of pointing the finger, point the needle.
MOOS (on camera): TV people were quick to bare arms, allowing their own arms to be shot while getting a flu shot.
MOOS (voice-over): From CNN's Anderson Cooper --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The light is glaring off your white arm!
(LAUGHTER)
MOOS: -- to the executive producer of "The Ellen Show."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now -- oh!
ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST, "THE ELLEN SHOW": Ow!
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And oh, please!
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST, "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT": Ugh!
MOOS: The award for most infections may go to Jennifer Lawrence. Those little flu shot whimpers are kind of infectious, too.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Ouch! Oh! Ow!
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(COUGHING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, that's the show. I'm Max Foster. Thank you so much for watching. That was CONNECT THE WORLD.
END
