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Connect the World
Justice Denied For Many Rape Victims In India; Australian Report Finds Huge Doping Problem In Domestic Sports; Tunisian Protests Continue; CIA Director Nominee Drone Controversy; Drone Strike Debate; Papua New Guinea Woman Tortured, Burned Alive for Witchcraft; Child "Witch" Abuse; Daniel Day-Lewis Up for Sixth Leading Actor BAFTA; Different Role for Daniel Day-Lewis in Ireland; Storm Approaching Northeast US Cancels Flights
Aired February 07, 2013 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: When justice delayed become justice denied.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): What those men have done cannot be forgiven. My daughter says don't spare those men. They destroyed my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Tonight, on Connect the World, this report from India will show you exactly why prosecuting rape there can be so difficult.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: While one brutal attack gets fast-track treatment by India's courts, countless others not just in India, but around the world are ignored. I'll talk with the founder of Women for Women International about what can be done to change that.
Also ahead, licensed to kill: the debate over whether the American government is using drones too freely.
And...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's cheating. But it's worse than that, it's cheating with the help of criminals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Why it's being called the blackest day in Australian sport.
The recent horrific gang rape and murder of a young woman in Delhi has sparked a huge debate in India over the country's attitude toward sexual abuse. Tonight, a damning report reveals just how bad the problem is for the country's most vulnerable victims -- children -- and the failure of India's institutions to tackle this scourge.
Human Rights Watch says the sexual abuse of kids is, quote, "disturbingly common in Indian homes, schools, and care homes."
If that wasn't bad enough, the report says, "victims of this disgraceful act often mistreated and humiliated by the very people who are supposed to protect them: the police. And that the systems in place to deal with this are inadequate."
Let's get straight to our correspondent in New Delhi, Sumnima Udas. Sumnima, we've heard a lot recently about sexual violence against women in India. This report that you have tonight about children, particularly difficult to listen to and to read.
SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Becky. It's really quite a scathing report, not just on the Indian government, but also on the Indian society in general, and how it's essentially failed to protect the children of this country from cases of child abuse and homes and schools and in institutions, children's institutions like orphanages.
Now this is not an issue that is often discussed in this country simply because children don't often report these cases because this is not a society that encourages that kind of dialogue so children often even tell their parents.
But even if these cases are reported, then according to this human rights watch report, nothing actually even happens because the systems that are in place don't -- the judiciary, for instance, the police and the doctors, don't take these claims seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UDAS: This single mother looks out at the spot where six years ago she found her teenage daughter lying on the street unconscious. She says four men abducted her 17-year-old daughter when she was heading home from school and raped her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): What those men have done cannot be forgiven. My daughter says don't spare those men. They destroyed my life. Don't give up. And I won't give up. As long as I live I will fight this case.
UDAS: She's still fighting for justice.
She says she spent her entire life savings and hired more than half a dozen lawyers, none of whom stuck around, sometimes switching sides, at other times dropping her altogether, she says.
The judges keep changing too, and the hearings are adjourned regularly.
UNIDNETIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The judge says I have 586 cases. I have 700 cases. I have to attend to everyone. So I can't do this quickly. Come back in three months.
UDAS: So she waits. The accused, out on bail for years, were recently acquitted by a lower court which cited insufficient medical evidence. The state has appealed to the high court saying the examining doctor tampered with the medical records.
The victims mother says the four men belonged to wealthy families.
UNIDENTIIFED FEMALE (through translator): A regular person can never win a rape case. Why? Because no one supports you. The lawyers don't support you. The police don't support you. And even the doctors don't support you.
I cried before women's groups. I knocked on every door I could. If the rapists have money and can spend the money, then even if you keep crying for justice, no one is going to listen.
UDAS: Lawyer and human rights activist Colin Gonsalves says rape cases can take an average of 10 years. And if the accused are wealthy, the victims will almost never win.
COLIN GONSALVES, DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS LAW NETWORK: They'll threaten her. They'll tell her her case is very weak. They will humiliate her. They will gun down her kids. They will insinuate that she is a woman of loose character. They'll foul up the evidence.
UDAS: In recent days, though, there's a new sense of hope. A special committee was formed to recommend changes to the existing rape laws, so- called fast track courts had been set up to hear just cases of rape and sexual assault, and a speedy trial is underway in this most recent high profile game rape case. But experts fear this is an exception.
GONSALVES: It will be a sort of a model case for the country to follow, but will the courts and the country follow this example? Will the police follow this kind of trend? And will judgments come quickly to do justice for the rape victims. I don't think it's going to change at all.
UDAS: Legal experts say India has far too few courts and just one- fifth of the number of judges it ought to have. So it's not unusual for court cases to go on for decades, even generations.
But that hasn't deterred this determined woman. Her daughter has married and left the country leaving the fight for justice in her mother's hands.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UDAS: Becky, she's a woman with incredible amount of courage and perseverance, but most victims, rape victims and families rape victims simply don't have that kind of money, courage or time to follow through with such cases until the end.
ANDERSON: Sumnima, thank you.
All right, well the fight for justice is part of the solution, but India is waking up to an even bigger challenge, whether it's kids or young women, the prevalence of sexual violence is heavily linked to ingrained social attitudes which quite frankly need to change and change fast.
I want to bring in Zainab Salbi, founder of Women for Women International, who can talk to the global scope of this issue. A friend of the show, Zainab has traveled with CNN's Freedom Project to investigate sex trafficking in India.
Zainab, how do you fix a system where a rape victim is left unconscious in the street before her case gets to court her lawyers either drop the case or change sides? The police don't support her. The courts don't support her. Where is the justice?
ZAINAB SALBI, FOUNDER, WOMEN FOR WOMEN INTERNATIONAL: Well, there's obviously no justice in the system and here -- and I have -- let's step back a second, women have -- women facing violence is a consistent and a historical story. And it's far beyond India. One out of every five women in the world is getting raped or is facing violence. Women are being raped or facing violence every few seconds in the world. And some estimates it's every 27 seconds.
Now, the issue of what is changing right now -- and so there's a tolerance of that -- it's almost everyone is used to that violence against women, be it domestic violence or rape or the massive rape as we're talking about now.
The change what we're seeing is consciousness. It's women are now more willing to talk. And that is actually a more recent phenomenon. In India, it's a very recent phenomena. In some countries in the last two decades that this phenomena has happened. They're more inclined to talk. They're more inclined to break their silence. The internet and the social media play their role, the fact that actually you are doing a show on that, or you're covering that make a major difference and actually how to raise consciousness to being numb to this issue to saying this is a serious issue.
Now there's also economic factors behind it. There's actually more economic reports than ever before -- social, political saying violence against women is impacting the whole society and not only these women. So it's only about -- I think it's really about consciousness raising. For more women to speak and for the justice system to sort of say do we go above it and try to be proactive about addressing it, or do we have to run after it and catch up to the fact that women are becoming more angry?
ANDERSON: And to give India their due, when we're talking about the system and how it works going forward, there is a fast track system that India says is now set up on the back of what was a headlining rape case, of course -- dreadful rape case before Christmas, but for most people -- and we're talking about 30 people around the world just while this show has been on air, being sexually violated or raped of course, for most people -- and certainly in India -- a rape case would take 10 years to get to court. How do we prevent the fast tracking become the exception that proves the rule that really these things take forever?
SALBI: Well, the prevention is through awareness and consciousness raising. And I'm serious. If we're talking about India, the violation is not only happening from the rapist or the violator where there's a child or women, but it's happening at the doctor level who are actually exerting another form of violence when they are -- the human rights reports for example talk about -- Human Rights Watch report talk about finger testing of the rape victims. This is another set of violations.
The police often -- there are cases after cases of dismissal of the victim, of ridiculing the victim or the parents of the victims, or the mother particularly of the victim. So we are talking about here making -- this is serious. This is a national issue. This is not some marginal issue. This is happening more frequently to our population than we think of. And unless it becomes -- the leadership at this level has to take ownership of making it a nationally important issue to change the pattern of behavior, otherwise there's a normality of this is normal.
ANDERSON: And we've been talking India. Let's remind ourselves, as we should, this is happening around the world as we speak. Just in the past couple of days -- the weekend for example -- a South African teenager died of injuries inflicted in a gang rape. The victim was badly mutilated. Her injuries, let me tell you, so horrific that medics who battled to save her life were actually given counseling themselves.
Meanwhile, in Mexico, just in the past couple of days a nine year old girl has given birth in what authorities have called a case of rape or sexual abuse.
Let's try and be optimistic as we close out of this, you deal with this issue day in, day out. Where's the light at the end of the tunnel?
SALBI: Oh, I'm an optimist by nature. And I really believe there is a huge light. I think there are a few lights. We need more and more women to speak up, that's the most important thing. We need to understand that there is not an individual case, this is many women are addressing it. So if you are a woman who are facing this, know that it is not only you. There's a lot, actually, and there is a pattern that we need to break.
We need leadership at the government level to understand this is a national issue. And not addressing it is going to impact the national economy, the national stability, society, all of that. And we -- and that, I believe, is a possibility of changing the systems. We have seen enough cases. Europe has changed tremendously in the last 50 years of how we address violence against Europe. In America as well.
So there's a lot of potential and hope in here. But it starts actually with taking the personal ownership whether you are a leader or whether you are a woman or you are a CEO of a company of saying where is that happening...
ANDERSON: Enough is enough.
SALBI: ...much closer than you ever think.
ANDERSON: Yep. All right. Good.
SALBI: Exactly.
ANDERSON: Always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much indeed.
This is an important issue. And we will continue to do it on CNN until we can help make a difference.
Next Thursday, it's V-day, a global movement to end violence against women and girls. Activist and writer Eve Ensler is behind the annual campaign. She spoke to me about the impact of the high profile gang rape case in India.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EVE ENSLER, AUTHOR: Well, you know, I was in India right when it was happening. And it was actually, obviously, a very disturbing thing because of the horrible rape case and the death of Chiote (ph). But it was also an amazing time to be in India, because you could really feel the issue of sexual violence breaking through human consciousness. And it's the first time certainly in my life where I've ever seen sexual violence be on the front page of every newspaper, be nine articles a day, be in the center of every discourse -- it didn't matter what college I went to, what NGO I went to, what doctor I talked to, every event, everywhere I went, that's what people were talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Eve Ensler there.
And more from that interview next week as we mark V-day and the fight to stop violence against women around the world. Join us for that.
Still to come tonight, violent clashes erupt in Tunisia for a second straight day as a political crisis deepens.
All that and much more when Connect the World continues. Do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Tunisia's prime minister is facing pushback by his own party over his attempt to diffuse anti-government outrage on the streets.
Riot police fired tear gas in Tunis to break up the second straight day of protests. The unrest was triggered by Wednesday's assassination of an opposition leader who was a fierce government critic. The prime minister responded by sacking his cabinet and calling for new elections. But his own party says those edicts are non-binding.
Well, the situation could get worse before it gets better. A general strike planned for tomorrow, the same day opposition figure Chokri Belaid will be laid to rest.
Dan Rivers is in Tunis and experienced the chaos on the streets firsthand earlier today. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tunis in tumult once again. Protesters march on the ministry of the interior for a second day furious at the assassination of Chokri Belaid. The police armed and ready to respond. But it's not long before tear gas is flying in the side streets as motorcycle mounted policemen chase protesters. In plain clothes, their places hidden, the police go from door to door to catch those who had been on the streets. And they don't welcome our presence on a balcony above. They throw rocks at us as we retreat inside.
They're coming to get us. The police are coming to get us.
Later, I go back onto the streets filming on my cellphone.
There you go, just as I thought it was calming down, tear gas canisters right back here. They're shooting again. I'm going to get out of it.
It didn't take long for the gas to begin clearing the crowds, including me.
As you can see, this cat and mouse lasted all day, but the protesters refused to leave.
The anger is still palpable on the streets of Tunis as the repercussions of the assassination sink in, many are wondering what does this mean for the Arab Spring?
Who do you think was responsible?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, of course the party of Ennahda and (inaudible) and because they encourage the violence since the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The signs were there. They told on internet, on television, on mosques we will kill people. And there were no reaction from the state.
RIVERS: Across the city, hundreds gather to pay their respects to Chokri Belaid. His wife, Besma (ph) consoled by family friends as she reeled from the loss of a national icon of moderate secular Tunisia.
The man lying in this coffin had warned just this week the governments had given an official green light to political violence. Now he's become the first political assassination since Tunisia's Jasmine Revolution.
His family are clear who is to blame, Ennahda had allowed an atmosphere that had encouraged violence against secular politicians.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It's an open invite to violence. I can only accuse this party.
RIVERS: Ennahda denies it's to blame, its officials are still deciding whether to accept their prime minister's disillusion of the government.
This country inspired the Arab world to stand up to dictators. Now many of its people are beginning to fear a new dark era of repression and extremism is about to be unleashed.
Dan Rivers, CNN, Tunisia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, our next guest says it would be a bad idea to immediately dissolve the government. Mabrouka M'Barek is a member of Tunisia's parliament. She represent Tunisians in the United States, Canada and most of Europe.
Welcome to the show.
Chokri Belaid's wife there saying this government is an open invitation for violence and has lost her husband as a result, possibly of his position against this government. Why do you think it would be a bad idea to dissolve this and not start again?
MABROUKA M'BAREK, TUNISIAN CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY: We have to separate clearly the two institutions, which is the government and the Constituent Assembly. I am opposed to the disillusion of the Constituent Assembly, and prominent figure in the opposition have called to dissolve the only institution that is legitimate and was voted with free and transparent elections. And these people are irresponsible. And this is very dangerous to ask to dissolve the Constituent Assembly which is working on the Constitution.
Now about...
ANDERSON: But not quickly -- hang on a minute -- not quickly enough so far as the people on the streets are concerned. It's two year. They say this revolution has only just begun. And they don't see anything like the moves by this government to get things done, and to get things done with secular and Islamist representatives who ultimately will represent the whole population. Do you understand their argument?
M'BAREK: Yeah, of course they are frustrated. But we have to point out something. Tunisia is an exception. Compared to Egypt, Tunisia is writing a consensus based constitution. That's why it's taking a lot of time. And right now they are organizing a national dialogue with Tunisians in Tunisia and Tunisians abroad, asking them to participate in writing the constitution. There is a strong political will to write a constitution that is consensus basis and not a 51 percent majority party constitutions.
This is really important. And it's not just writing the constitution. This Constinuent Assembly has many tasks. It controls the government, but also it is also the legislation, so we also passing on...
ANDERSON: And that I understand. And it's good to hear from you to that respect. Tell me, are you optimistic about the future?
M'BAREK: Yes. I am optimistic. You know, Tunisia has achieved very strong optimistic steps. We are almost done with the constitution. It's about weeks now. The draft is finished and now we're touring, as I said, to consult with the citizens. So it's just a matter of weeks and it's really important to keep going in the right direction.
Calls to dissolve the Constituent Assembly I think are very dangerous.
Now the prime minister has promised to reshuffle the government four months ago. And he hasn't done so. So now it is time to really keep on the good track. I think I am for a reshuffle the cabinet as it was promised, but also not to forget the target, which is election very soon and finish -- and wrapping this consensus based constitution.
ANDERSON: You've explained yourself very well. And we thank you for taking the time to do that.
Your guest on Tunisia this evening.
Live from London this is Connect the World.
Coming up, it is disheartening news for a sports crazed nation. Athletes taking banned drugs and getting them from crime rings. Don Riddell with the latest on that story up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, Australians found out today that their professional sports are not as clean as they thought. Don Riddell joins us with more on a doping probe that is quite frankly Don shocking the nation. What are the authorities find?
DON RIDDELL, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this really is terrible news, Becky. I mean, you and I know a lot of Australians. We know how they feel about their sport. It is a sport mad country. The biggest event in Australia are sporting ones. And really, a lot of Australians define their cultural identity through sport. So can you imagine how they felt on Friday when they heard this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON CLARE, AUSTRALIA MINISTER FOR JUSTICE: The findings are shocking and will disgust Australian sports fans. The work that the Australian crime commission has done has found the use of prohibited substances, including peptides, hormones, and illicit drugs is widespread amongst professional athletes. The evidence to date indicates this is not the majority of athletes, but we're talking about multiple athletes across a number of codes. We're talking about a number of teams.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIDDELL: And Becky, these athletes weren't just cheating, they were cheating with the help of criminals, that is why the Australian government has given the Australian Anti-Doping Agency increased powers so that they can tackle this problem.
But this really is absolutely devastating. This has been described not as a black day for Australian sport, but the blackest day for Australian sport.
ANDERSON: Yeah, I'm just thinking about that. As -- and what a headline that is. And it's attention grabbing, but sadly probably absolutely true.
How does this change the image, do you think, of sport in Australia?
RIDDELL: Well, I don't think it's a problem just for Australian sport. I mean, it's absolutely devastating for them, for sure, but this comes hot on the heels on the Lance Armstrong scandal, hot on the heels of the match fixing in football investigation which we learned about this week. So this is just a terrible time for sport in general and its credibility and its integrity.
And you know the people that we were speaking in Australia about this on Friday said, you know, obviously this is a problem for us, but this really could happen anywhere. And I think it really is becoming quite a serious problem. That's the bad news.
The good news is that the authorities are at least becoming more alert to it. And the fact that there is now a criminal element to this means that the authorities in many countries are taking this much more seriously.
ANDERSON: Yeah, sure. No, you make a very good point.
All right, Don, thank you for that. Don Riddell, of course. Back with more sport in about an hours time.
The latest world news headlines of course here in CNN at the bottom of the hour. Plus, hecklers at a big hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pakistan, Somalia and who else -- where else?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A Capitol Hill grilling who might be chief of the CIA. Some public critics held up the questioning. We're going to show you why John Brennan is so controversial.
Plus, a country where unspeakable crimes are still practiced, we'll tell you where a woman was accused of witchcraft and then burned alive.
And the acclaimed star set to make history at the Oscars and create a legacy in a small town in Ireland.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: A warm welcome back. This is CNN and CONNECT THE WORLD. The headlines this hour.
Heavy fighting continues in a suburb of Damascus. This video is said to show a tank being hit by grenades. The government is battling rebel forces who have been attacking, quote, "strategic targets" including checkpoint in the capital.
A second day of protest in Tunisia after the assassination of an outspoken opposition leader. Police have been firing teargas trying to restore order. Tunisia's prime minister sacked the cabinet and calls for new elections, but his own party says those edicts are not binding.
Police across Southern California are searching for a former Los Angeles policeman wanted in a series of shootings that killed three people and left two others injured. The 33-year-old is suspected of ambushing policemen in two Los Angeles suburbs on Thursday.
A yearlong investigation in Australia has uncovered what is being called widespread doping in professional sports. The final report says multiple athletes are taking banned drugs and that in some cases the drugs are distributed by organized crime groups.
Iran says it has decoded videos from a captured US drone. The aircraft went down over Iranian territory more than a year ago. It is said to show a large airbase as well as the Afghan city of Kandahar.
Tonight, a grilling for the architect of the US drone campaign against al Qaeda. It comes on the same day as his Capitol Hill confirmation hearing to run the CIA.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: -- and my brother, Tom.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I speak for the mothers who --
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: All right.
(BANGS GAVEL)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- who can't --
FEINSTEIN: We will stop again --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- right in Yemen --
FEINSTEIN: All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A short time ago, John Brennan faced scrutiny, his critics, and hecklers. The public gallery was cleared and the Obama administration's choice for top security chief was able to get on with answering questions.
Now, Brennan's addressed some of the criticism against him over drone strikes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENNAN: I think there is a misimpression on the part of some American people who believe that we take strikes to punish terrorists for past transgressions. Nothing could be further from the truth. We only take such actions as a last resort to save lives when there's no other alternative to taking an action that's going to mitigate that threat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So, why is almost every government on the planet watching this man? And why are Amnesty International, the UN, and the American Civil Liberties Union so concerned about John Brennan and his counter- terrorism operations?
Well, I'm looking at why he's controversial, so I want to bring you some context for this. Back in 2010, Brennan denied using drones in Yemen. Here's a clip from my interview with him then in his role as White House counter-terrorism advisor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Reports of -- over the last couple of months of drone attacks in Yemen. Are they American drones, sir?
BRENNAN: No. The -- the United States, again, is working with the Yemeni government. The Yemeni armed forces, air force, army, have done a very good job. Some of these individuals have sacrificed their lives in support of the counter-terrorism efforts there.
We are providing -- we are in a support role, I want to make that very clear. The United States military, Intelligence Security Service, are playing a support of the very legitimate and needed Yemeni counter- terrorism operations that are underway in Yemen.
ANDERSON: Whose drones are they?
BRENNAN: There have been no drones -- attacks in Yemen, certainly not since the Obama administration has come into office. So, I -- there are a lot of reports and rumors out there that are flying around about different types of activities that are taking place.
Again, what we're doing is working in support of the Yemeni government. It's been very effective. It's been very efficient and precise. But the Yemenis are in the lead here without question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the New America Foundation, a Washington think tank, says that there have been 28 US drone strikes in Yemen during the Obama administration from 2010.
Let's fast-forward, then, to last April when John Brennan had this to say about drone strikes overall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENNAN: We conduct targeted strikes because they are necessary to mitigate an actual, ongoing threat, to stop plots, prevent future attacks, and to save American lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Got a debate for you on the drones issue tonight. Jameel Jaffer is the legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union and joins us live from our New York bureau, and from CNN Washington, this evening, I'm talking to former CIA specialist Reuel Gerecht. He's a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy.
Jameel, let me start with you. The limitations for the use of drones laid out in the leaked memo that we've seen of late seem reasonable enough. If someone poses, they say, an imminent threat, doesn't the US authorities have a duty to do everything possible to remove that threat?
JAMEEL JAFFER, LEGAL DIRECTOR, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION: Well, I think the memo would be a lot more reasonable if "imminent" meant what it ordinarily means. The problem with the memo is that it redefines the word "imminent" so that the government -- it's not really a restriction at all.
The government can target anyone even if they don't present an immediate threat, even if they're not engaged in actual plot. So, it's a very broad category of people who can be targeted under this memo.
And you see the results of that, because you see that there have been 4,000 or so people who have been killed with US drones since the Obama administration took over.
ANDERSON: All right. Reuel, then, should the US administration be given the power to effectively kill whoever they want without any real checks in place about the decisions that are being made?
REUEL MARC GERECHT, FORMER CIA SPECIALIST: There are checks in place. Congress at any time can come down quite hard on this program, and I think you have a consensus on both sides of the House amongst Republicans and Democrats that the drone program is sufficiently effective for it to continue, and I don't think that's going to change.
ANDERSON: Let me just give our viewers a sense of how Americans feel about this. A majority of Americans back the use of military drones, it's got to be said. According to a recent poll, three quarters of Americans say they support the use of drone aircraft against terror suspects overseas.
I want to get you a closer look as well at the number of drone strikes over the past decade. From 2004 to 2008, when George W. Bush was president, there were 46 US drone attacks in Pakistan. That's according to the New America Foundation, as I said, a Washington think tank, I mentioned a short time ago.
Those drone strikes dramatically increased under President Obama when he took office in 2009, 54 strikes that year alone, and peaked the following year with 122. The numbers went down to 73 the year after, 48 in 2012. There have been 6 drone strikes so far this year.
Jameel, if this is a war, and most would classify the fight at least against al Qaeda as that, don't the normal rules of war apply? As civilians, we put our trust in the military to defend us. And when I say "us," obviously, I'm not American, so we're talking about an American classified operation here. But we know there are drones in operation with governments elsewhere, of course.
JAFFER: Right. Well, I think that one of the most disturbing things about this memo is that it doesn't draw any geographic limits. So, it says that we're in a war with al Qaeda, but it says that that war is all over the world, that the battlefield is everywhere.
And so, the government is essentially asserting the authority to carry out these strikes under military rules anywhere in the world. And you can imagine if a country -- if another country proposed that kind of authority, if Iran were proposing it, or North Korea, or any other country were proposing this kind of authority. There's no way that the United States would tolerate it.
It's only being tolerated right now because the United States is really the only country with the kind of technological capabilities that you need in order to carry out strikes out in multiple countries. But that's not going to last.
ANDERSON: Reuel --
JAFFER: At some point, other countries will have this power, too.
ANDERSON: Sure. Reuel, you're a former CIA specialist, of course. What about collateral damage. That's something we've seen much noise about. We don't have access to good data on the number of civilian casualties from drones, but there's naturally going to be a much bigger margin of error, surely, when you have remotely controlled weapons.
GERECHT: I don't know if it's a larger margin of error than saying a SEAL Team 6 or a Delta Team coming down --
ANDERSON: Oh, come on. I think --
GERECHT: In fact --
ANDERSON: -- we know there is collateral damage out of these operations. We know that.
GERECHT: Well, no, you -- I'm sure you know there's collateral damage, but I'm saying I'm not sure it's any greater than if you were to have a special operations team take out a next of terrorists. I think the damage -- collateral damage there also might be larger. Might be larger.
Again, I think that you need to -- you obviously need to watch these things. I think Congress is watching it. The administration is using, I think, drone attacks more as a strategy than a tactic, and I think there is a local check on this.
Obviously, drones would not be flying in many places if you did not have locals assisting you, because these drones are not largely launched from naval vehicles. They're being launched from the ground.
If the Pakistanis don't like the drones, it causes enormous problems. If the Americans withdraw from Afghanistan, I think you'll probably see the end --
ANDERSON: OK.
GERECHT: -- of drone attacks in the subcontinent.
ANDERSON: Let me just get a brief word from both of you. Jameel, what do you think we need to hear from Brennan today? I'm talking the global audience here. Very briefly.
JAFFER: Well, I think that part of it is transparency, that the public has a right to know more about what the rules are and how they're being applied, and part of it is a commitment to reaffirm the rules that the international community has set in place.
Because there are rules that apply here, and the kinds of actions that the government is taking right now in some cases amount to extra-judicial executions under international law.
ANDERSON: Reuel?
JAFFER: So we really need a commitment that the CIA is going to redirect its policies quite dramatically.
ANDERSON: OK, Reuel, last word.
GERECHT: Well, again, there's considerable oversight of this by the US Congress, who are the elected representatives, so if this turn out to be something that is upsetting, I suspect Congress will act. Until then, I wouldn't terribly worry about this being done in the dark.
ANDERSON: To both of you, we thank you for joining us. Good stuff.
Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Still ahead, a chilling story that belongs, quite frankly, in the dark ages. A woman burned alive because she was accused of being a witch. More on that after this.
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ANDERSON: Now, to an horrific and barbaric crime committed out in the open as hundreds of onlookers stood by. You won't believe this. Newspapers in Papua New Guinea report a young mother has been tortured and burned alive after being accused of sorcery.
We're going to show you a picture of the crime, and we warn you that it is extremely disturbing, but we think it can be important as a catalyst to help prevent these kind of attacks from ever happening again. So, we're going to show you the picture now.
A 20-year-old woman is engulfed in those flames. She was reportedly tortured with a branding iron, stripped naked, and then dragged to a garbage dump, where she was doused in petrol and set on fire. Villagers claim she killed a six-year-old boy through witchcraft.
Ostracized, abandoned, tortured and, as we've seen, even burned to death. All to often, this is the fate of those accused of being witches. Witches. A word we are using in 2013. Some are too young to even understand the word "witch," yet still they endure abuse by their parents, their churches, their entire communities.
It was a problem we highlighted back in 2010, when CNN reported from Nigeria. We met children like five-year-old Godswill, who had been beaten, abandoned, and cast out by his family, who had accused him of being a witch.
Unfortunately, he's not alone. A 2010 UNICEF report investigated what is described as the urban child witch phenomenon, a growing problem in several countries in West and Central Africa. Orphans and kids with physical disabilities are most at risk.
And here in Britain, in March last year, a couple were jailed for torturing and drowning a teenage boy they accused of being a witch.
Well, London police have set up a special unit to combat such crimes against kids. Private organizations are also helping as well. We're joined now by Debbie Ariyo, who's founder and executive director of Africans Unite Against Child Abuse. It's a charity that promotes the rights and welfare of African children in the UK and here -- and in Nigeria.
Let's talk about the issue here. What's the scope of the problem here?
DEBBIE ARIYO, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AFRICANS UNITE AGAINST CHILD ABUSE: Well, this is a growing problem here in the UK, Becky, and you've quite frankly mentioned Kristy Bamu, we had that case last year. But since Kristy's case, we've seen at least two or three other cases across the country. So, it's a growing problem.
ANDERSON: Who's responsible?
ARIYO: Parents, members of the community, fake leaders -- faith leaders, fake faith leaders.
ANDERSON: Fake faith leaders.
ARIYO: Yes.
ANDERSON: Who do you mean by that?
ARIYO: Fake pastors, fake imams, fake witchdoctors, people who are using children as a way of making money. Because by branding a child a witch, you would have to exercise that child, and the parents have to part with money to ensure that can happen. They have to remove the stigma.
ANDERSON: I'm assuming that you've met victims of this heinous crime. Just describe how tortured they are, as it were, physically and mentally.
ARIYO: Mental -- the worst part is the mental, because that's what never goes away. The idea that you know -- and you know everybody is aware that you are an evil person, a horrible person, somebody who's done terrible things, because that's what you've been taught.
ANDERSON: We're talking about little kids, right?
ARIYO: We're talking about little children. That's all you've been taught to believe about yourself. It's so destroying, Becky.
ANDERSON: What's being done to stamp it out?
ARIYO: Well, last year, the UK national government actually set up a national working group, and we have a national action plan to address this issue here in the UK, which is quite good. And the different things that people are starting to actually achieve to help address this problem.
So, for example, issues around raising awareness within communities where children are most likely to be affected, and also doing what -- with faith groups in order to help that, to combat this problem.
ANDERSON: I guess the first step is breaking the silence, isn't it? Briefly, are communities prepared to talk about it?
ARIYO: There's a big problem, because some of these people that have called fake faith leaders, they're very, very powerful people. Very few people would dare stand up against them.
And that's one of the reasons why we are saying that the government needs to actually make it illegal to brand children as witches, because that will empower people to stand up, because there's a law against it.
ANDERSON: Seems remarkable there isn't a law against branding kids witches, but if it's needed, let's get that legislation done.
ARIYO: Absolutely.
ANDERSON: We thank you very much, indeed --
ARIYO: Thank you, Becky.
ANDERSON: -- for joining us.
Connecting the world for tonight. Coming up after this short break, the Hollywood star who has set his sights on helping his hometown. That story is up next.
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ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back, this is CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson out of London, @BeckyCNN if you want to follow me and engage with me and the team here on Twitter, of course.
Now, he has played an artist with cerebral palsy, a Mohican, a wrongly-accused IRA bomber, a New York crime boss, a gold miner turned oilman, and he's won a BAFTA award for each of those leading performances.
And now, Daniel Day-Lewis is up for another BAFTA and a history-making third Oscar for his role as a former American president.
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DANIEL DAY-LEWIS AS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, "LINCOLN": In his book -- hm. Euclid says this is "self-evident." You see, there it is. Even in that 2,000-year-old book of mechanical law, it is a self-evident truth that things which are equal to the same thing are equal to each other.
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ANDERSON: It is an unbelievable performance, I've got to say. We'll find out if he wins his sixth leading actor BAFTA on Sunday night, but as our Neil Curry discovered, Daniel Day-Lewis is already winning praise for a very different role that he's been playing in Ireland.
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NEIL CURRY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's known as the Garden of Ireland, and for centuries, the rugged beauty of County Wicklow has inspired mankind to create monuments, music and, more recently, movies.
Not only does the area boast a town called Hollywood, it's also served as the location for several Hollywood films, including "Braveheart," "Excalibur," and "My Left Foot," the film which provided Daniel Day-Lewis with his first Oscar.
But what Wicklow lacks is a hospice, a place where terminally ill patients can receive care. An in this windswept, muddy field, Evanne Cahill and her friends hope to build one.
EVANNE CAHILL, WICKLOW HOSPICE FOUNDATION: You cannot be born or you can't die in Wicklow. We don't have any services. We don't have a hospital or a hospice or a maternity house. Nothing.
CURRY: So, she turned to Wicklow's most famous resident for help to raise both funds and awareness.
CAHILL: So, I just got a birthday card, I wrote, "Happy birthday" to him and just said would he consider becoming a patron? So, I didn't hear anything for about three months, and I kind of had forgotten about it, and one Saturday morning, the phone rang, and this gentleman said, "Hello, is this Evanne Cahill? This is Daniel Day-Lewis. Have you time to talk?"
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CURRY: Over the next two years, Evanne and Daniel continued to talk, meeting here at Hunters Hotel, the place where the director Steven Spielberg came to say while persuading the actor to take on the role of Lincoln.
And Cahill and Day-Lewis discovered a common bond: both their mothers had passed away in a hospice.
DAY-LEWIS AS LINCOLN, "LINCOLN": Things which are equal to the same thing are equal to each other.
CURRY: As filming wrapped on "Lincoln," Daniel called Evanne with some news which would transform the fortunes of the Wicklow Hospice Foundation.
CAHILL: He said, "All going well," he said, "I would like to gift the premier to the Wicklow Hospice." I was just blown away, I couldn't believe it.
CURRY: Evanne finally began to believe it last month, when the international premier of "Lincoln" arrived in Dublin, with the who's-who of Irish celebrities, including Bono, Sinead O'Connor, and Chris de Burgh walking the red carpet along with Daniel, director Spielberg, and co-star Sally Field.
DAY-LEWIS: Sometimes films have something to offer beyond pure entertainment. This may be one of those films. But whatever it is, whatever people take from it, to actually just give it a chance like tonight, give it some legs and help it to raise some money for something like the hospice is a -- that's a great thing.
CURRY: But there was more. As well as selling seats for the premier, there was a very special auction of "Lincoln" memorabilia, courtesy of the film's director.
STEVEN SPIELBERG, DIRECTOR, "LINCOLN": He really believes in this, and once he explained it to me, I really believed in it, too.
CURRY: By the time the red carpet had been rolled up, the Wicklow Hospice Foundation was within striking distance of its 3 million euro target, with more props still being auctioned online.
CAHILL: I think the excitement on Oscar night will be phenomenal. We're already planning what should we do on that night and I know we'll have a party that night for sure.
CURRY: The charity hopes to break ground on the building project in the summer, by which time it's hoped the ground will be a little less muddy, and Daniel will have brought his third Oscar home to Wicklow.
Neil Curry, CNN, County Wicklow, Ireland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, all this week, we've been speaking to the contenders for this year's BAFTAs, from rising star Andrea Riseborough to two documentary makers going head-to-head for an award. You can watch all of my interviews and Neil's on the blog, of course, at cnn.com/connect.
You can also tell us what film you are rooting for this Sunday. Just head to the Facebook page, it's facebook.com/CNNconnect. Or, of course, you can tweet me @BeckyCNN. That's @BeckyCNN.
For tonight's Parting Shots -- well, just before I do that, I just want to update you on some news just coming into CNN. It's out of United Airlines tonight. They say they've got 900 weather cancellations for tomorrow in the northeast of the States.
Some of these, of course, may be international flights and may be impacting you wherever you are watching, therefore, tonight. This includes United and the United Express, flights from 32 airports. Many of the flights are in Newark, which is a hub.
No cancellations yet for Saturday. Those will be worked out, United tells us, in the morning. There were 80 cancellations out of O'Hare, Chicago, for Thursday. So, important information coming in tonight if you are a traveler.
And -- And I'm just learning that JetBlue are also canceling over 600 flights, as well, so weather-related madness, it seems, going on in the skies over the northeast in the States, and consequently, do check your flights if you are flying internationally on either of those airlines and you think that you may be impacted, all right?
For tonight's Parting Shots, we leave you with some stunning images short-listed for this year's Sony World Photography Awards. I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD.
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