Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
John Kerry Talks Tough To North Korea; Mubarak's Second Trial Set To Begin; Malian Refugees Living In Appalling Conditions In Mauritania
Aired April 12, 2013 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MAX FOSTER, HOST: The power of North Korea's indoctrination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYUNG LAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Even though you left 10 years ago, this still has power over you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: 10 years since she left, a defector is still pulled in by the regime's propaganda.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World.
FOSTER: Also coming up on the show...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They do drill into them, and a hatred against the Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Pumped full of anger over drone attacks, the school children trained to kill by the Taliban. And as a wiz kid dazzles at the Masters, can you practice your way to becoming a pro?
Simply unacceptable: the words of U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry this Friday as he touched down in Seoul just 40 kilometers from the demilitarized zone. Kerry said the U.S. will not accept North Korea as a nuclear power and stands ready to defend itself. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We will defend our allies. We will stand with South Korea, Japan, and others against these threats. And we will defend ourselves. And Kim Jong-un needs to understand, as I think he probably does, what the outcome of a conflict would be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: A stern warning there from Washington's top diplomat, but Kerry also ordered an olive branch to the North saying the U.S. is prepared to talk. Anna Coren in Seoul has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There were strong words from U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry during his visit here in Seoul warning Pyongyang not to go ahead with its widely anticipated missile launch. He also said that if there was any provocation from the north, the United States would not hesitate to support its allies South Korea and Japan.
Now America's top diplomat used Kim Jong-un's name several times throughout the speech saying that America would never recognize North Korea as a nuclear state.
Now we know that this is ultimately what Pyongyang wants. And ever since Kim Jong-un came into power more than a year ago, the country has been gung ho in developing its nuclear weapons program.
Now despite all this tough talk, John Kerry did leave the door open for diplomacy saying that the United States would hold talks with North Korea if it was serious about denuclearization.
KERRY: We are prepared to work with the conviction that relations between the North and the South can improve, and they could improve very quickly.
COREN: Now the U.S. Secretary of State is off to Beijing where he will meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping. He believes that China as North Korea's only friend and ally holds the key and must use its leverage and influence over North Korea to deescalate tensions here on the Korean Peninsula.
Anna Coren, CNN, Seoul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, one worrying factor in all of this is the cult-like support Kim Jong-un has in North Korea. The country has an army of more than a million men willing to die for their leader. CNN's Kyung Lah shows us just how powerful Pyongyang's propaganda machine can be.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAH: Bizarre, over the top, welcome to the one and only television channel available in North Korea, Korean central television KCTV. To the outside world, the state run images run from the weird and ridiculous to unbelievable and outlandish propaganda. But look what happens as Chae Young Hee watches KCTV.
"They're god," she says, "referring to North Korea's trinity Kim Jong- un, his father and grandfather."
But how can people think of him as a god?
"That's what you're taught since birth," says this defector who escaped North Korea 10 years ago fleeing the brutal regime. She says, "it's been a long time since I last saw this and I feel -- I'm getting emotional. I don't know how to express this. This is not a lie, this is not an act, it's real. If anything happens, North Koreans would give up their lives. They will even jump into a fire."
This is very powerful. Even though you left 10 years ago, this still has power over you.
We watch a children's show that Chae finally remembers, the good North Korean cat defeating the South Korean rat. And a war film that depicts the North Koreans defeating Americans.
But if there's a revelation for this woman who fled North Korea so long ago, it's this.
(on camera): You didn't know Kim Jong-un. Do you feel the same love and devotion to him that you felt to Kim Jong-il just by watching this television.
"Yes, I feel the same. He looks like Kim il-Song. He looks exactly like his grandfather. He's the same. He's doing exactly what his grandfather and his father did."
(voice-over): The power of propaganda on a people, the power of a regime.
Kyung Lah, CNN, Seoul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: And that propaganda continued today on North Korean TV.
But it did appear to be mixed with some more normal scenes. Here you can see preparations underway for Monday's Day of the Sun, that's the birthday of North Korea's founder Kim il-Sung. There's been speculation abroad that because of that holiday, Monday could be the day for some sort of missile launch.
You're watching Connect the World.
Coming up, after the break, no food, no water and no home: an urgent appeal is made for tens of thousands of refugees who fled the violence in Mali.
Coming up in five minutes, what does the future hold after Hugo Chavez as Venezuela prepares to vote?
And in just over 10 minutes, practice might make you perfect, but is that enough to become a pro golfer? One man has a plan and his name is Dan. All that and much more when Connect the World continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: You're watching Connect the World with me, Max Foster live from London. Welcome back to you.
Now coming up later in the program, the kids train by the Taliban to become suicide bombers. On Thursday, we brought you a CNN exclusive interview with former president Pervez Musharraf who admitted to a secret deal between his country and the United States over the authorization of drone strikes. Coming up, the young minds radicalized by anger over these attacks. That special report coming up in around 25 minutes right here on Connect the World.
Some other stories now that we're following this hour. And tens of thousands of Malian refugees are in urgent need of help, according to Medecins Sans Frontieres. Conditions in the desert camp in neighboring Mauritania are so bad there's only one toilet for every 3,000 people. Vladimir Duthiers has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VLADIMIR DUTHIERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: About 70,000 refugees who have fled the violence in Mali are living in appalling conditions in a camp in the middle of the Mauritanian desert according to a report released by Doctors Without Borders on Friday.
The situation has only gotten worse in the Mumbera (ph) camp since French forces entered Mali in January to help local forces take on and topple Islamist militants.
About 15,000 more refugees have flooded into the camp since the fighting began. And conditions are so bad that many who are healthy became ill or malnourished after they arrived.
Now the number of children admitted to the clinics in the camp for severe malnutrition more than doubled in that time. Henry Gray, the emergency coordinator for MSF and the author of the report had this to say about this humanitarian crisis.
HENRY GRAY, EMERGENCY COORDINATOR, MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES: Around 15,000 people arrived in a very short space of time, and the infrastructure within the camp in terms of shelter, water, latrines, has been overwhelmed.
DUTHIERS: The camp was set up by the UN refugee agency UNHCR with help from the Mauritanian government about 60 kilometers, or 37 miles from the border with Mali when refugees first started arriving in early 2012. The majority of these refugees in the Mumbara (ph) camp are Tuareg and Arab pastoralialists who live a nomadic or semi-nomadic lifestyle in the deserts of northern Mali.
Doctors Without Borders has been working the camp since February of 2012 when these groups started to arrive following the French-led intervention which is now winding down.
But for these refugees, it's hard to know where they'll go from here.
Vladimir Duthiers, CNN, Lagos.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: The French senators approved a controversial bill that would give same-sex couples the right to marry and adopt. It could become law within weeks once the lower house approves some technical amendments introduced by the senate. Debate over the bill sparked massive demonstrations for and against same-sex marriage across France.
The Taliban are claiming responsibility for killing 13 Afghan national army soldiers. A local official says the soldiers were ambushed at dawn in Kunar Province along the Pakistani border. Reports say militants -- the militants stormed an army outpost and the fighting lasted for hours. A Taliban spokesman said the insurgents captured the base and seized ammunition and weapons.
Well, 600 passengers were evacuated off a high speed train in Taiwan after explosives were found on board. Police said the bomb was hidden inside a luggage -- in luggage in a rest room and a customer noticed the bags emitting white smoke. People nearby said they could smell gas and explosives were made of five liters of gasoline and a timer attached to them. There's no word yet on who might be responsible.
To Venezuela now where campaigning has closed ahead of Sunday's presidential election. The first vote in almost 20 years in which the late Hugo Chavez will not be a candidate. CNN's senior Latin American affairs editor Rafael Romo has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This will be Venezuela's third major election in the last seven months. Back in October, Venezuelans elected the late Hugo Chavez for a six year term. Last December, the South American country held gubernatorial elections for all 23 states. Sunday's selection will be held to replace Hugo Chavez who died of cancer on March 5. The winner will be in power until 2019.
In the October presidential election, more than 14.7 million Venezuelans cast ballots. This represents almost 81 percent of the electorate, a record in Venezuela's history. And Sunday's turnout is expected to be just as big if not more.
Venezuela's strategic importance goes beyond its politics, of course. It contains some of the largest oil and natural gas reserves in the world according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
For example, Venezuela was the eighth largest oil exporter in 2010. Currently, Venezuela is the fourth largest supplier of crude oil to the United States behind Canada, Mexico and Saudi Arabia. About 8 percent of the total American oil imports comes from Venezuela. Still, Venezuela's economy has problems. Inflation of more than 20 percent. In recent years, oil production has slowed since Chavez nationalized foreign run oil operations. Relations between the United States and Venezuela over the last decade have been rocky at best.
In 2008, both countries expelled each other's ambassadors, but then they were reinstated the following year when President Obama took office.
In 2010, the United States expelled a Venezuelan ambassador again after then President Chavez refused to accept the Obama administration's ambassador nominee.
Rafael Romo, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Former U.S. presidential candidate Newt Gingrich will be amongst the guests at Margaret Thatcher's funeral next Wednesday. Gingrich was closely allied with the late American President Ronal Reagan who was a strong Thatcher ally. Canadian prime minister Steven Harper, former Australian Prime Minister John Howard have also accepted invitations.
Meanwhile, on Sunday BBC radio says it will play a portion of a song at the center of an anti-Thatcher movement. We're talking about "Ding Dong, The Witch is Dead" from the Wizard of Oz.
Since her death on Monday, a Facebook campaign has urged people to buy the track and they have, driving it to number three on the pop music charts of the UK. So BBC radio will play a clip, but not the full song on its Sunday countdown.
Live from London, this is Connect the World. Coming up, the birdies, the boogies, and the eagles. Who is on their game at the Masters who is not? We're live in Augusta for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: You're watching Connect the World live from London. Welcome back. I'm Max Foster.
Now golfers are still on course at the Masters in Augusta for the second round of play. The youngest ever player at the tournament Tianlang Guan didn't do as well as his opening round -- excuse me. And in the last half hour a big setback for the young pro. CNN's Patrick Snell is at Augusta for us. He's been playing slowly, then. This is a rare problem, right?
PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: It's not, actually. It's a penalization, I would say, Max, that is the rare actual part of this story. It's quite extraordinary. The last time a player was actually penalized for slow play in a major was in 2004 at the PGA Championship in Cola, Wisconsin. So that, you can see, is almost the best part of a decade. And many people crying foul here on behalf of Guan.
And what happened was, he was put on the clock. He did get warnings earlier, to be fair, but on 17 he got one stroke penalty.
What does it do for his tally for the championship? Well, it moved him to four over par. So the big question is, is he going to be around for the weekend? He would have been at three over par, which I still think he is going to make the cut, but we don't know at this point. And these are nervous tense times for him.
He told U.S. TV recently -- a U.S. TV sports network, telling them that he respects the decision about this, really conducting himself very well. He played beautiful golf on day one. Thursday he really did play some nice golf as well on day two here Friday. Everyone, everyone wishing that he be around for the weekend. We'll be keeping everyone updated on that.
Let me show you the leaderboard as it stands right now. And it makes really nice reading if you're from Australia. And the name is Marc Leishman going really well. He was one of the overnight co-leaders at this year's Masters at six under par a short while ago. Britain's Justin Rose, the South African born Brit going really nicely as well.
And Tiger Woods making some nice strides. A short while ago Woods was at three under par for the championship, three shots behind the leader.
Now I mentioned co-leader, that means that we did have another leader on Thursday night, Sergio Garcia of Spain. He's fallen away just a little bit this day giving three shots back. He's done. And he's in the clubhouse four over for this day, Max. And that leaves him at two under par for the championship, so still in pretty good shape, but he's four shots behind the leader now. And Sergio in the past this time a year ago was basically questioning his own mental attitude. He actually hinted at the fact that he didn't believe he could go on and win a major, not the kind you should even think of the top pro, let alone admit. Anyway, he's hoping he can try and put that right. He did kind of backtrack and retract that statement to some degree.
But Sergio Garcia, again, he would be a popular winner, especially for the European contingent -- Max.
FOSTER: OK. Patrick, thank you very much. Fascinating series of events there. And we'll see how he does, that youngster. So many people fascinated by him. A huge amount of sympathy, as well, because he's so young that he's been penalized. But that's golf (inaudible) he's playing in.
And now we wonder how long it will take for our next guest to reach the Masters?
Well, three years ago Dan McLaughlin decided that photography as a career wasn't for him, so he quit his day job, swapped his camera for a golf club and started a journey. His plan, which he's called the Dan plan was to become a professional golfer. How? Through full-time practice and lots of it.
We spoke to Dan in 2011 and we thought it was time for an update from him. Speaking to him earlier, I asked him how far he's come in his campaign to practice for 10,000 hours.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN MCLAUGHLIN, TRAINING TO BECOME A PRO GOLFER: Over the past three years I put in 4,000 hours and I personally gone from never having swung a club in my life to mid-single digit handicap, so that's surpassed 85 percent of all U.S. golfers and I would assume it's pretty similar worldwide.
FOSTER: Is that on track to what you were aiming for?
MCLAUGHLIN: I'm more or less on track. My goal for 4,000 hours is to have a scoring average around 77, 78. And my tournament scoring average right now is about an 81. So I'm a couple of strokes off, but the only thing you can do is hit the grindstone and keep on working.
FOSTER: This young player that we've all been talking about this week is an interesting debate, isn't it, particularly from your context. Now some people are arguing that it completely blows your theory out of the water, because it's a natural, clearly. You can't be that young and good at golf. You wouldn't have had time for all of this practice?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, you know, I don't personally know him. I don't know what his life has been like in the first 14 years of it. But from everything I've read and seen, he is the biggest proponent of practice. Are you born with this ability to swing a club? I don't think so. I think that for him he has just worked hard and has just made it, played well, and the -- Asian amateur. And that's -- won that and that's how he got the Masters. And now he is just doing exceedingly well for any age.
FOSTER: Well, everyone is fascinated by him and his story, of course, but he's the only one that really knows the truth about his practice.
Let's hear about him from his own perspective.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUAN TIANLANG, GOLFER: Both my mom and dad influenced me because they both played golf back then.
GUAN HANWN, TIANLANG'S FATHER (through translator): When we played we were just practicing, but he had a goal in his mind. For example, when he saw a 50-yard sign he could keep practicing for one hour just to hit the same target. He really wanted to hit it.
FOSTER: So he actually backs up your theory, you think. It's actually all about nurture, not nature.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. You know, I think that the -- it's just a great example of what 10 years of dedicated practice can do.
FOSTER: And in terms of your practice, you're doing this as an academic exercise, aren't you? Are you getting fed up with it yet, or are you actually getting quite into golf?
MCLAUGHLIN: No. You know, personally I didn't know anything about golf and I was practicing and I was just putting in the hours and learning about it, but I'd say about a year into it actually start playing golf for the first time and that's when the obsession hit. It went from kind of more of an academic pursuit to a personal passion and obsession. And now, you know, every day is not a full day unless you get out to the course and practice for at least four or five hours.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: You've still got a long way to go, but we'll track his progress for you.
The latest world news headlines just ahead. After that, the retrial of Hosni Mubarak soon gets underway. But as a sign of the times in Egypt that many people have more pressing concerns.
In under 10 minutes, a special report asking the big question: do drone strikes create more enemies for the U.S. than they kill?
And straight after that, I'll be catching up with three friends on a mission to run 39 marathons in just 33 days. Why? Stay with Connect the World to find out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: This is Connect the World. The top stories this hour. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry heads to Beijing on Saturday after his stopover in South Korea. They'll discuss North Korea's nuclear threats with Chinese officials. Asked in Seoul, Kerry insisted North Korea will not be accepted as a nuclear power.
Refugees who fled the violence in Mali are now living in what's being described as appalling conditions in Mauritania. And new report from Medecins San Frontieres says many of the 70,000 refugees were healthy when they arrived at the camp, but now they're sick or malnourished.
Europe's finance ministers are taking the pressure of Portugal and Ireland. At a meeting in Dublin, the ministers agreed to give the country's an extra seven years to pay back their bailout loans.
The French senate has approved a controversial bill that would give same-sex couples the right to marry and adopt. It could become law within weeks once the lower house approves some technical amendments introduced in by the senate.
Well, in two years after hundreds of Egyptians were killed in the democratic revolution, the country is still waiting for justice. Tomorrow, prosecutors will try once again to convict ousted President Hosni Mubarak. He was sentenced to life in prison last year for ordering the killing of protesters, but his attorneys appealed and Egypt's highest court ordered a retrial. The 85 year old Mubarak is in frail health, currently receiving treatment at a military hospital in Cairo.
Mubarak's first trial riveted the nation. Egyptians were stunned to see the man who had ruled with an iron fist looking vulnerable in court, forced to answer for his own actions. We spoke with journalist Ethar el- Katatney in 2011 soon after Mubarak's trial began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ETHAR EL-KATATNEY, JOURNALIST: Yeah, very shocking on a lot of levels. You know you had first the excitement and then had silence and then you had a lot of people actually tearing, you know, how the mighty have fallen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: That's who is joining us now from New York.
Thank you so much for joining us. That was then, this is now. I mean, how do you feel about -- how do you feel about what's gone in between?
EL-KATANEY: Well, I definitely think the re-trial tomorrow is very anti-climactic. In fact, I go as far as to say that a couple of dozen people during the Harlem Shake outside the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters will actually -- got more news time than tomorrow's re-trial will be.
No one's really going to -- pay a lot of attention to what's going to be happening simply because so much is actually happening in the country right now. You have a breakdown of the law and order, you have increasing sectarian tensions, you have a crackdown on media activists, and you have a collapsing economy.
So, the here and now is so -- there's so much chaos right now in the country, so Egyptians are so focused on that, that the trial -- re-trial actually seems more of a chapter that's been closed.
FOSTER: It's symbolic in many ways for people, isn't it, individuals now? As you say, it doesn't mean a huge amount to them because they've got so much else going on, but are you able to define, really, what he represents, what this trial represents?
EL-KATANEY: I don't think it means as much to many Egyptians as it did a while ago simply because the new president and the new kind of regime after the military, people dying again in Port Said, the breakdown of the police state.
All that's been happening on the ground right now, people are so focused on that that the re-trial for a lot of them is simply going to be a letdown. All the interviews with people who've actually had family members who died during the revolution, you'll find that a lot of them have lost hope, not just in their -- in the prosecution, but in their own lawyers.
And the report that President Morsi had allegedly demanded that more investigation would be going on, no one's actually heard some of that report's been leaked, but the findings haven't actually had much air time.
So, I think -- especially also because a lot of Egyptians are actually increasing in sympathy now towards Mubarak that maybe under his day, yes we had no food or we had no freedoms, but we still don't have those things, but we're actually poorer now and our lives are more difficult now than they were then. So, actually, you have a lot of people increasing in sympathy for him.
FOSTER: Is the revolution dead?
EL-KATANEY: It's definitely not dead. It's still ongoing, but I think a lot of people are just very exhausted. You have even the activists themselves, people have become more apathetic, more lethargic.
And when the shift towards the economy -- our foreign reserves have halved -- more than halved since 2011, our balance of payments. You have almost half the population either under the poverty line or just above.
And the first demand of the revolution -- bread and freedom, social justice. And when so many more Egyptians' lives are actually harder in terms of getting food, it shifts the focus not so much from the politics towards the actual daily life.
But it's definitely not dead, and as we've seen in past weeks, there's been actually increased crackdown on activists, on journalists, and on lawyers. So, it's not dead. It's just -- tired -- right now.
FOSTER: OK, Ethar El-Katatney, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us. Sectarian tensions in Egypt recently escalated into deadly attacks, leaving the Coptic Christian pope to take the rare step of publicly rebuking the government, accusing it of failing to protect churches. Ian Lee looks at what set off the latest outbreak of violence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Khosous, a poor town north of Cairo, a church and shops show the scars of a sectarian attack. Last week, enraged Muslims attacked the church after rising tensions between the two communities.
These men argue about what transpired and what should happen next.
(MEN ARGUING IN ARABIC)
LEE: The call for justice is unanimous, but some don't trust the authorities and believe justice will be elusive. There is heavy security at the scene. In a weekend of violence, seven men, including six Christians, were killed.
Atef Daoud, a Christian, says his cousin was killed when men set him on fire. "As long as we have sectarian strife, then we're on our way to a civil war," he says. "We're only hurting ourselves as security is no longer present and no one respects each other."
LEE (on camera): Initial reports were that it was this graffiti on the wall of this Islamic institute that sparked the clashes, but after talking to local residents, most of whom are Christian, they say resentment and jealousy of their local Christian community leader is what led to the violence.
LEE (voice-over): Deadly sectarian attacks aren't uncommon in Egypt. Almost after each incident, government officials host reconciliation meetings. Kissing and shaking hands, Muslim and Christian leaders pledge unity and tolerance.
But these kinds of meetings don't work, says human rights activist Hossam Bahgat.
HOSSAM BAHGAT, EGYPT INSTITUTE FOR PERSONAL RIGHTS: The number one problem, the reason the sectarian violence issue has festered for so long and grown to that scale is the impunity enjoyed by the perpetrators, and conviction -- false conviction that prosecution of perpetrators of sectarian violence would escalate the --
(CROWDS SHOUTING)
LEE: Sectarian tension is only going to get worse, says Bahgat. He blames President Mohammed Morsi for allowing security to deteriorate. One official from the ruling Muslim Brotherhood said, "there is a security vacuum in Egypt.
ESSAM EL-ERIAN, EGYPTIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: All Muslims are very sad about what happened in Khosous and in the church. But we must accept that we are in transformation, and the police still now is not taking the full responsibility to secure all the country.
LEE: For now, there's an increased police presence in Khosous, but it won't last. And until there is reform of Egypt's security services, the country's frequent bouts of violence seem likely to continue.
Ian Lee, CNN, Cairo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Live from London, you are watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Still ahead, taught to hate and trained to kill. How the Taliban are using a despised US military practice to recruit the next generation of jihadists.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Turning now to the United States' controversial use of drones to take out militant targets thousands of kilometers away. Yesterday, we brought you an exclusive report, the first admission from a Pakistani authority that the country had sanctioned US drone attacks. Former strong man Pervez Musharraf spoke with our Nic Robertson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pervez Musharraf was Pakistan's military ruler when drone strikes began in 2004 and was bitterly and publicly critical of them. Now, he admits there was a secret deal.
PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, FORMER PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN: One discussed at the military level, at the intelligence level, to strike. And if at all, there was no time for our own SOTF and military to act, then. And that was very, very -- maybe two or three times only.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Drones may be effective in taking out militants, but they also kill innocent people as well, enraging local populations. Are drone attacks then creating more enemies of the United States than they actually kill? Nic picks up his special investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): A few years ago, the Taliban held sway here.
ROBERTSON (on camera): We're in the Swat Valley, a few hours' drive from Pakistan's capital, and the army are taking us to see the next generation of jihadists.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): In this classroom, trained child suicide bombers and killers. Boys as young as eight, all from poor families, all weaned on Taliban propaganda. Not about Osama bin Laden, but US drone strikes, according to this school official, who also hides her face, fearing Taliban attack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They do drill into them a hatred against the Americans. And the drones -- they talk about the Americans conducting the drone attacks and killing civilians.
ROBERTSON: The drones operate out of US bases in neighboring Afghanistan, and according to the White House, target al Qaeda and Taliban hiding in Pakistan's tribal border region, not civilians. Karim Khan, who's from that tribal region, tells me his brother and son were killed in a drone strike in late 2009.
KARIM KHAN, SAYS BROTHER, SON KILLED IN DRONE STRIKE: They were both going to get supplies. They were not involving in any terrorist acts.
ROBERTSON: He is suing the CIA. But given the chance, he says, he'd take revenge on those responsible.
KHAN: I will kill them, if Allah gives me this opportunity, I will kill them, because they are responsible for killing my brother and my son.
ROBERTSON (on camera): President Obama, the CIA chief?
KHAN: I would kill them, because they are criminal.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Lawyer Shahzad Akbar represents 100 families like Khan's. Of an estimated 2,000 or more killed in Pakistan, upwards of 200 are thought to be civilians.
SHAHZAD AKBAR, LAWYER: Drones are creating not just one generation, but generations of jihadists because if you kill a father, his son will come, and then if you kill the son, his grandson will come, and this is what is happening.
(GUNFIRE)
ROBERTSON: At this Taliban training camp in the tribal area, filmed exclusively for CNN, there is no shortage of recruits, but no doubt, drones are finding their targets. This building was destroyed a few weeks later, nine Taliban killed, according to the journalist who visited the camp.
Taliban graves for those killed in drone strikes litter the area, but so do the low-tech camps. The drones sow fear, but don't stop the training.
ROBERTSON (on camera): After ten years of drone strikes, the Taliban are more brutal than ever, and what was once known as the war on terror here in Pakistan, at least, is backfiring and drones are despised.
HINA RABBANI KHAR, FORMER PAKISTANI FOREIGN MINISTER: This might be an effective tool to win a battle, but this is certainly a counterproductive tool. An illegal and also counterproductive tool to win the war.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): By the time these boys being de-radicalized are old enough to vote, teachers hope they'll choose democracy over terror, but as long as drones are striking, the classrooms here are unlikely to ever be empty.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Swat Valley, Pakistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, the US policy on drones is shrouded in secrecy, but in the past few years, dozens of top militants have been taken out by drone strikes, including Abu Yahya al-Libi. He's a Kenyan -- Libyan, rather -- citizen and al Qaeda's chief of staff, killed last June in Pakistan.
In September 2011, a drone strike in Yemen killed American-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, a leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula. A month earlier, al Qaeda deputy chief Atiyah abd al-Rahman was killed in the Pakistani tribal region of North Waziristan.
The US claims al Qaeda and other militant groups have been significantly weakened due to the success of these targeted killings, but reports by independent groups conclude that US drones mistakenly murder a significant number of civilians.
The New America Foundation estimates that drones have killed as many as 3,308 people in Pakistan since 2004. As many as 637 of those deaths were non-militants. The group estimates that nearly two out of every ten deaths are non-militants.
Coming up on CONNECT THE WORLD, they're not running one marathon, not even two, but 39, back-to-back as well, right now across Eastern Europe. Up next, I'll find out how they're faring, and then Amanda will be here to tell us who's facing who after the Champions League semifinal draw. All coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: They should be at school learning about life, but for one 1.2 million children across the globe, all they know is a life of slavery. CNN's Freedom Project was set up to highlight the victims of this modern- day scourge, and now you the people trying to -- and now, showing you the people trying to set them free as well.
We caught up first with my next guests late last month when they were preparing to set off on a mission to run 39 marathons in just 33 days. That's 1,000 miles across eight Eastern European countries from Ukraine to Dubrovnik in Croatia all to raise money for the young victims of human trafficking.
They've now reached Bucharest in Romania after covering some 300 miles. Earlier, I spoke to Rob, Guy, and Tom to see if the challenge was taking its toll.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROB MARTINEAU, RUN FOR LOVE 1000: Our legs are in a -- slightly battered and bruised. It's taken more of a toll on our bodies than we expected. I think the backpacks were really heavy and it's been a tough couple of weeks, to be honest.
But we're in really good spirits. It's just -- we are having kind of issues with our legs. But hopefully, we've been sort of patched up today by -- we saw a Romanian doctor whose specialty is treating kick-boxers, and he's -- he sorted us out and given us some injections and so on, so hopefully we'll be strong for the road tomorrow.
But we've got a really tough stage coming up, a sort of 40-mile average over the next six days, which is going to be really challenging. But fingers crossed, we're -- we're strong enough to do it. And -- yes.
FOSTER: And tell us about the accommodation you've been getting accustomed to. I gather you got some -- you've had some company overnight you weren't really expecting.
TOM STANCLIFFE, RUN FOR LOVE 1000: Yes, it's been -- well, it's been quite varied. Each night we've arrived in different places, often not knowing where we're staying, so we've actually been very lucky on a few occasions staying with local families just that we've met at the end of our day who've offered us some shelter and some food for the night.
A couple of nights in the west of Ukraine, we actually wild camped out where we found some shelter. So, it's been quite an adventure in that regard as well. We also heard --
FOSTER: Weren't there some risks involved somewhere?
GUY HACKING, RUN FOR LOVE 1000: Yes, there were -- there have been lots of wild dogs, and actually, the other thing we realized is that it's not the best adventure is we realized that we only packed a two-man tent when we thought it was for the camera man and one other. We actually thought we had packed a four-man, so --
So, a bunch of us are sleeping outside just in our sleeping bags under -- when we were camping out in the wild. We thought we had --
FOSTER: In terms of the next stage, as you say, it's getting tougher from here, isn't it? So, are you worried about what you've taken on?
MARTINEAU: Part of us, yes, we are, in a sense. But I think with the right attitude and, I suppose, a slice of luck in terms of our legs staying strong, I think we've certainly got it in us to do it. But it will be a real challenge.
The next stage, in fact -- the next two stages, the daily mileage just increases a lot, the terrain is a lot tougher, it's beginning to come up to mountains. And I think it's going to be a really big test. And obviously, there's an unknown element to it, so none of us know how our bodies are going to react to that.
But, hey, we support each other really well, we have thus far, and hopefully, although we're carrying some knots, we've also built some strength over the last two weeks, and I understand it's in really good stead to at least give it the best shot we can.
FOSTER: And this is all about awareness, isn't it, as much as sort of completing this as a personal experience? So, in terms of the campaign and why you started all of this, what sort of progress do you feel you've been making?
STANCLIFFE: Well, I think actually to be honest, that's been one of the most exciting things about the journey. All along the way, there's been great interest from local press, local people. We hit a really big landmark yesterday when we heard from London that we'd raised 100,000 pounds for charity, Love 146.
So, I think that's been one of the most exciting elements, really, all of the support we've been getting from home, all of the really positive messages from -- at home and also the places we've been passing through. So the campaign's going really well.
FOSTER: Good stuff, guys. We're going to stay in touch with you. Good luck for now, and good luck with those blisters.
(LAUGHTER)
STANCLIFEE: Thank you very much.
MARTINEAU: Thanks very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: If you want to find out more about the Run for Love, Guy has written a blog, which you can read by heading to cnn.com/connect. You can also find out how to donate or even join the challenge. You can also visit our Freedom Project website to find out more about CNN's campaign to end modern-day slavery, cnn.com/freedom.
Now, we know the match-ups for the semifinals of the Champions League. Amanda Davies, who's run one marathon, is with us.
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: One is more than enough.
FOSTER: It's one more than me, as well.
DAVIES: One in 30-something years.
(LAUGHTER)
DAVIES: Anyway, yes, we do know the semifinals of the Champions League. Four great teams, two great tides, both of which could be finals, really. And we know going into the draw, two Spanish teams, two German sides.
So the big question was were they going to be drawn together or were they going to be kept apart. And I can tell you both of the semifinals are Spain against Germany. So, it could be an interesting final either way, really.
The big one, I suppose, the main -- main one of the two, last season's runners-up Bayern Munich against the four-time winners Barcelona. A very tough one to call, this. Barcelona many people's favorites for the title, but some suggestions that maybe their air of invincibility is waning a little bit.
The few defenses weaknesses at the back, question marks over whether or not they rely too heavily on Lionel Messi. But Bayern Munich have just been crowned champions in Germany already, and their coach, Jupp Heynckes, has a point to prove because he's being replaced at the end of this season.
The Barca guys are quite confident, though. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDONI ZUBIZARRETA, BARCELONA SPORTING DIRECTOR (through translator): I think we are going to see two great games. I think we will play against a great club. I think it's a club that wants to play good football, that plays good football, it has great players. I think it will be a great semifinal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIES: The really interesting thing about that semifinal is who is Pep Guardiola going to support? Pep Guardiola, of course, was the Barcelona coach, he led Barca to two European crowns.
But we already know, he's taking over Bayern Munich next season, it'll be very interesting whether or not he gives his new club any advice in the right direction, or whether he's supporting Barca, because that means that when he takes over, at least he's got something to achieve in Germany.
We must talk about the leg -- the other tide, though, briefly. That is Borussia Dortmund against the nine-time winners, Real Madrid. We already saw these two sides play in the group stages, Dortmund relatively inexperienced in this side -- in this stage of the competition.
Of course, Real Madrid backed by Jose Mourinho, who has won this competition so many times before, and -- he is the Champions League, really, very much at the moment. And this is what those two clubs have had to say about the draw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMILIO BUTRAGUENO, REAL MADRID DIRECTOR: They are very talented, very solid back, and very dangerous offensively, so we have to be very focused on every detail, because we know that it's going to be extremely difficult, I would say that. Of course, if we play our game, we'll have ever chance of reaching the final.
JURGEN KLOPP, BORUSSIA DORTMUND COACH (through translator): The best preparation for a game against Real Madrid is a game against Real Madrid. We've already successfully completed this task. Now, we have to complete two Bundesliga games, and then we're up against Real, first of all at home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIES: So, two weeks until the first leg of the semifinals. Of course, the big aim is to reach Wembley Stadium right here in London on May the 25th, and whether it's German sides or Spanish sides, we at CNN will be there.
FOSTER: You'll be there.
DAVIES: Yes.
FOSTER: And it'll be warmer by then, hopefully.
DAVIES: I don't know.
FOSTER: Less rain.
DAVIES: Yes.
FOSTER: It's been a long winter, thank you very much, Amanda.
DAVIES: I've got a nice mac.
(LAUGHTER)
FOSTER: Now, a new show featuring renowned chef and world traveler Anthony Bourdain premiers on CNN this Sunday. In the first episode of "Parts Unknown," Bourdain travels to Myanmar, also known as Burma. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN" (voice-over): The Morning Star Tea House, where I've come, well, for a couple of reasons. Reason one, the must-have, bone-deep, old-school favorite around here, lahpet chauk. The salad of fermented tea leaves. I know, that does not sound good, but you'd be wrong to think that.
Take the fermented tea leaves, add cabbage, tomatoes, lots and lots of crunchy bits, like toasted peanuts, season with lime and fish sauce.
BOURDAIN (on camera): This is absolutely delicious!
ZARNI BO (ph), MYANMAR ACTIVIST: You like it?
BOURDAIN: Oh, yes, it's fantastic!
BO: Yes, yes, fantastic.
BOURDAIN (voice-over): Simple, delicious. Things not to be taken for granted if you've been in and out of the joint like this guy, Zarni Bo, activist, astrologer, and three-times convict.
BOURDAIN (on camera): Everyone I've met in this country so far, in fact, has been to prison. It really --
BO: Yes, this happens again and again for us in Myanmar.
BOURDAIN: For almost six years.
BO: Six years, nearly six years. All the judgments are made by the kangaroo court. The navy, army, and the air force, these three officials sitting all together. They read off, "This is your sentence." It happens, only minutes. Like that.
BOURDAIN: What is life like inside prison?
BO: Nice, nice, very nice.
(LAUGHTER)
BOURDAIN: I have a hard time believing that.
BO: No, very nice. We can talk to each other, say some things, and we use a mirror to look at each other.
BOURDAIN: Access to books?
BO: No books. No writing things. No paper. No, nothing at all. A mat and a blanket and a plate and a bowl.
BOURDAIN: Right.
BO: Only these are the things that we possess. Think about that.
BOURDAIN: How's the food -- the food in prison?
BO: Soup. Dried pea soup. Only one meat meal for a week. That's on Thursday. You know that in prison, in insurgent prison, all the fishes no body, only the head and the tail.
(LAUGHTER)
BO: No middle part! It could look like this.
BOURDAIN: So, there is hope for this country, in your view, yes?
BO: Yes, yes. Especially with the Buddhist believe now, how to live in situations. Dictators, political tensions, or even just discrimination, everything is happening to us, but the Buddhists say OK, that's about past life luck. If we go do something, next time will be good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: "Parts Unknown" debuting this Sunday evening at 9:00 PM Eastern in North America and Latin America. Asian audiences can catch the show as well on April the 19th at 10:00 PM in Hong Kong.
Coming up in just over a few minutes as well, Anthony Bourdain talks to Christiane about the new program. Stay tuned to CNN for that.
I'm Max Foster, that was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thank you very much, indeed, for watching. We'll see you next week.
END
