Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Worst Yet To Come For Australia's Wildfires; Saudi Pulling Away From U.S. Partnerships; Roma Community Backs Couple Accused Of Abducting Little Girl
Aired October 22, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Two-and-a-half years of war, more than 100,000 killed and millions pushed out of their homes: tonight, another stark reminder of the brutality of Syria's civil war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you actually see the bullet hole here going from one side of the buttress to the other side. And the baby was caught in the middle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: New claims that sniper in Syria are targeting pregnant women and children as a new push for peace gets underway in London.
Also this hour, has Facebook lost its moral compass? We'll debate the social media giant's decision to allow posts showing beheadings.
And how growing demand for cocoa means you'll have to pay more for this. We'll get an insider scoop with master chocolatier Anish Forpat (ph).
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: Good evening. A Syrian opposition leader calls talks in London today positive and encouraging, but his coalition still hasn't committed to a crucial peace conference tentatively planned for next month in Geneva.
Now Britain hosted Syrian opposition leaders today as well as foreign ministers from 10 countries, including the U.S., Turkey and several Arab states all agree that the Geneva talks should form a transitional government for Syria that does not include President Bashar al-Assad.
Well, the sticking point is that some opposition groups want him to step down before those talks even begin.
The head of the Syrian National Coalition says opposition leaders will meet within days to decide whether they want to participate in the Geneva meeting.
The U.S. secretary of state says these talks are imperative, outlining in stark terms what might happen if they fail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We believe that the path of war will simply lead to the implosion of the state of Syria, it will lead to the rise of extremist groups and extremism itself, it will lead to more refugees spilling over the boarders and putting strains on surrounding countries, and it will further destabilize the region and lead ultimately to the disintegration of the Syrian state.
All of this makes this challenge a global challenge, an international challenge of the greatest proportions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: John Kerry speaking there.
Well, to analyze how today's meeting plays out within the Syrian conflict, I'm joined by Fawaz Gerges, a regular guest on this show, head of the London School of Economic's Middle East Center.
Fawaz, the military reality remains static. Let's just give our viewers a sort of sense of what's going on here. The rebels in green continue to be stronger in the north and northeast while the government in orange holds the center of most of Syria's largest cities.
Western powers still trying to boost the moderate anti-Assad opposition that fall under the banner of the Free Syrian Army or the FSA, of course. But fighting within the opposition, damaging that objective, recently some rebel groups announced the formation of a new alliance dedicated to creating an Islamic state.
So, in reality we are here looking at, aren't we, a three pronged conflict with the FSA and their allied forces, with the Islamist groups and with Assad himself. How does that play out?
FAWAZ GERGES, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Chaotic, unruly, contentious. The opposition is deeply fragmented. It's not just three conflicts. We're talking about multiple conflicts collapsed in one. But one of the most important conflicts that you have not mentioned is what I call the fears of geostrategic struggle that's really playing inside Syria between Iran and its allies on the one hand and Saudi Arabia and the Gulf on the other hand. So you have multiple internal conflicts and you have a fierce geostrategic struggle and that's why it's extremely difficult to put an end to this prolonged and deadly conflict.
ANDERSON: I want to talk about that wider context to this, because that is ultimately, I think, what matters here the most.
Before we do that, let's just remind our viewers why we should care about what's going on at the moment. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says more must be done to stop what he calls the humanitarian catastrophe unfolding before the world's very eyes. You and I, Fawaz are going to talk about the sort of players here. But the people on the ground are those that matter most.
A volunteer doctor for one relief charity tells CNN that he witnessed horrific crimes against Syrian civilians. A warning now to our viewers, some of these images are graphic and you may find them disturbing. We feel, though, compelled to share them with you. In order to show some of the brutal tactics used in Syria's civil war.
Again, this report not suitable for everyone.
Here's Atika Shubert.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDNET: It's a chilling image of just how horrific the Syrian civil war has become. A sniper's bullet in the skull of an unborn fetus, the pregnant mother was the victim of a sniper attack.
British surgeon Dr. David Nott volunteered at several hospitals in northern Syria with a charity Syria Relief.
DAVID NOTT, DOCTOR: And you actually see the bullet hole here going from one side of the buttress to the other side and the baby was caught in the middle.
SHUBERT: These images are graphic, but they are all survivors. Dr. Nott says 90 percent of the surgeries he performed on any given day were sniper wounds, up to 20 gunshot wounds a day.
Syria Relief provided CNN with these pictures of sniper victims in order to raise awareness of the growing violence. Dr. Nott says he believes snipers are specifically targeting pregnant women and sometimes children in a vicious game of war.
NOTT: For one day we would see, say, 15, 16 gunshot wounds and of that eight to nine were targeted in the left groin only. And then the following day they were targeted in the right groin only. I think definitely there was a game going on.
SHUBERT: A targeting game...
NOTT: A targeting game.
SHUBERT: In this video from Aleppo, men, women and children try to outrun sniper's bullets as they cross the regime controlled enclave of the city to the rebel held areas.
It's not clear who is pulling the trigger in this video, but innocent civilians are literally being caught in the crossfire.
They risk their lives, because food and provision are on the rebel side, but their homes and families are on the regime side. Desperate, they make a dash for supplies, but not everyone makes it through.
It is a scene reminiscent of another conflict, Bosnia. But at that time, the UN operated humanitarian corridors to ensure a steady supply of food and medical aid despite the fighting. Dr. Nott was there.
NOTT: It was wonderful to see the lorries coming in with -- white lorries with UNHCR written on them, which you knew they were full of provisions and food and medical aid for the besieged town, because that was in an area conflict with various different factions and so on working, but at least they got their act together on that time. And I would like that to happen again for Syria.
SHUBERT: Do you think it can?
NOTT: Yes, I do.
SHUBERT: Without that humanitarian corridor in Syria, he and other doctors warn these horrific images will not go away.
Atika Shubert, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Lest we forget why we should care about all of this, just another day, Fawaz, in Syria there. What was achieved today in London?
GERGES: Hardly anything. Forget all the rhetoric that has been added today, a major shift has taken place in American and European foreign policy towards Syria. There's a consensus that Assad has not only survived, Assad has gained the upper hand. There's a consensus that the opposition is deeply divided. I'm going to go further and say that the real, the key purpose behind convening the conference in Geneva at the end of November is not only to rescue Syria from destruction, it's to rescue the opposition, the political opposition from being undermined and superseded by the extreme elements.
ANDERSON: You've been a staunch supporter of intervention by the west and its allies, allies who are clearly funding some pretty fundamentalist factions. I don't think it's a surprise that the west is, to a certain extent, moved away from its support of the opposition. Are you?
GERGES: You know, Becky, in closed rooms Americans -- some American and European politicians they're terrified that Assad might fall today or tomorrow. They're terrified that a security vacuum could be filled by the extremist elements, by al Nusra Front, by the Islamic State in Iraq and (inaudible). This is -- tells you a great deal about the transformation that has taken place inside Syria.
What has happened today, you ask me, in fact, now the pressure is on the Syrian National Coalition to attend the conference. What was the initial western position, "Assad must step down before the convening of the conference." Now Kerry is telling the opposition, well, Assad is not going anywhere. Talk to us and see what we can achieve.
Look what Kerry said to the opposition, you will achieve on the negotiating table what you have failed to achieve on the battlefield. This goes against everything we know about the balance of power and international relations.
ANDERSON: We know that there is a regional dynamic to all of this. You and I talked about that at the beginning of all of this. Today, Saudi Arabia's spy chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan made headlines by suggesting that the kingdom will scale back cooperating with the U.S. to support rebels in protest against Washington's policy in the region, specifically in Syria. John Kerry responding to that.
Were you surprised from -- by what you heard out of Saudi today?
GERGES: No, not at all. In fact, you and I were talking about Syria. We're forgetting the huge, giant struggle between Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states and Iran and Hezbollah and Iraq and Syria on the other hand. The Saudi leadership is angry. It's angry because it's geostrategic position has been undermined by the vacillation and reluctance of the Obama administration to attack Syria and also because of the new engagement and rapprochement with the Iranian president Hassan Rouhani. And that's why the Saudi leadership has been extremely displeased and angry. And that's why basically they said no to the security council position.
ANDERSON: How does that affect relations between Saudi and the U.S. going forward?
GERGES: Oh, in fact, it has been quite a very negative relationship. It's not just about Syria, it's about Egypt, it's about Iran, it's about Bahrain, there has been -- the big point I want to make for your listeners, Becky, American and Saudi relations are no longer aligned. They have diverged on Egypt, on Syria, on Iran. And this tells you about the new fault that's emerging in the region.
ANDERSON: Fawaz, it's always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much indeed.
Still to come tonight, the latest on the Australian bush fires as the weather Down Under may be about to make a dramatic turn for the worst. That is coming up.
And has Facebook lost its way by allowing graphic and violent content to be posted on their website. We'll be crossing live to New York.
Plus, it's a cocoa catastrophe, but chocoholics around the world have surprised sweet stuff raises, we have a famous bean man in the studio for you. That all coming up in the next 40 minutes or so. Do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: This is CNN. And you are watching Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. 14 minutes past 8:00 in London.
Australian firefighters are preparing for the worst as dangerously hot weather sets in. The string of wildfires nearly 1,600 kilometers long and high winds and scorching temperatures threatening to make things worse. The state of New South Wales is already in a state of emergency. And 1,500 more firefighters are being brought in.
The fires are burned in an area roughly the size of Los Angeles.
Well, at least one person has been killed and more than 200 homes have been destroyed. Robyn Curnow sends this report from the Blue Mountains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Home after home after home, blazes bypassing one side of the street devastating the other.
This was Christy Daschke's home, which she shared with her husband Jake. Only the clothesline untouched by the blaze, the pins still hanging in the scorched air.
If there's one thing you could go in there and get, what would it be that you wished survived?
CHRISTY DASCHKE, WINMALEE RESIDENT: It would be my photos, photos from the computer where the -- on the computer or the laptop or whatever, wherever I could have gotten them from -- my photos, yeah.
CURNOW: Photos of what?
DASCHKE: A honeymoon, the wedding. My wedding album, photos of me as a baby, as Jake as a baby, my whole 12 years with Jake. We don't have a record of any photos to show my children of, you know, me growing up with their dad.
CURNOW: In the true Aussie way, her family and friends are taking a break after spending the day clearing up. They say they will rebuild.
TIM PARSLEY, FIREFIGHTER: Back burning is used to actually remove the fuel away.
CURNOW: Across the valley, firefighter Tim Parsley says even those on the fire frontlines have been affected. His sister lost her house, too.
PARSLEY: Yeah, she lost it. She lost everything. Her son managed to find her wedding ring in the rubble and a few other things, but everything else was gone. So -- but, you know, the thing I said to my sister was you got out with your life. And we're sitting here having a conversation about it and that's all that matters.
CURNOW: This valley is filled with smoke. Fighters working down on the ground unseen to stop the advance of the blaze.
This is what firefighters have been doing across this region lighting controlled fires to contain or at least slow down the spread of these blazes. And it's all to protect a community of 1,500 people who live just up that way.
Despite a massive mobilization of firefighters, officials say that on Wednesday the weather could fuel the fires even more as hotter temperatures and even stronger winds are forecast.
ROB ROGERS, DEP. COMMISH. NEW SOUTH WALES RURAL FIRE SERVICE: We'll just give it our best shot. I've been doing this for more than 33 years and this is the most difficult fire scenario I've faced.
CURNOW: And, if it is as bad as they warn, scenes like this could be repeated many times over.
Robyn Curnow, CNN, the Blue Mountains Australia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: All right. Well, let's cross to Jenny Harrison at the international weather center. Now, Jen, what role is the weather playing in all of this. And are things looking sadly to be taking a turn for the worse?
JENNY HARRISON, CNN WEATHER CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know what, Becky, weather has played a major role in this right form the start. It's because of the weather conditions, the very, very dry months, the very, very warm weather, the above average temperatures that these fires have been so fierce and predominant so early in the season.
But also, all this talk about Wednesday being so bad, the winds already been picking up. And you can see the last few hours a lot of cloud across the entire region.
The winds have changed direction. They've been picking up. And all of this has been coming in as this front is on its way. So it's the arrival of this front, which is changing the weather conditions.
Right now, winds are coming form the north at 22 kilometers an hour. This is Sydney of course. The temperature is 22 degrees Celsius. It's still the morning hours.
Now this is the radar in the last 12. It looks pretty good, doesn't it? It looks as they've had some really, really good rain. Well, unfortunately it is a little bit deceiving. You'll also notice just the last few hours a lot of that rain has really pulled away. And when you actually break down some of the numbers, look at this, in the last 24 hours just 3 millimeters of rain have fallen in Sydney itself. So far in October just 13 millimeters. The average for the entire month is 77.
So things are really not good at all.
Now I want to talk to you a little bit about the back burning, but also the amount of rain that's been coming down. So we know what back burning is. Robyn explained a little bit about that in her piece just then. So what they do, of course, is they go and start another line of fire to try and literally stop the fire spreading. So they burn an area so that when the fire gets to it there's nothing there, there's no fuel. There's nothing to actually continue to allow that fire to continue to burn.
However, anything less than 10 millimeters of rain, all that does for the firefighters, it just dampens down the ground, doesn't put any fires out, it just dampens down the ground and it means that they can't start this back burning.
So it doesn't help them at all, particularly when -- look at this -- you're dealing with this deficit. July to September, all these areas in and around Sydney, anything really from 50 to 90 percent below the average amount of rainfall for this time of year. And as we go through Wednesday, look at this, a total fire ban here across the entire portion of this state. And you can see where the fires are. The fire danger is very high as we go through this Wednesday.
These are the current winds right now. So they're picking up as the day goes on. This is showing you the gusts expected, Becky. We could see in and around Sydney certainly winds at around 60 kilometers an hour getting on over 70 further to the south in and around Canberra. Then when you look at it eight hourly breakdown, you can see some very high winds as well. And it's the temperature as well.
This front, before it comes through, we're going to see temperatures this particular day, this Wednesday, actually at about 32, 35 Celsius. It'll still stay very breezy and windy as we go through Thursday. But the temperature will drop dramatically.
So Wednesday is by far the worst day. This is why they are so concerned about this particular day. So very hot, very dry, very windy. The worst day of the week by far -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Listen, if you are watching -- Jenny, thank you for that -- if you're watching in that part of the world. Good luck. Stay safe. And we hope for the best.
This is Connect the World. Coming up, human rights groups slam U.S. drone strikes calling them war crimes.
And a case bearing an eerie similarity to that of Greece's mystery girl, a second child is taken from another Roma family. All that and more when Connect the World continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're with Connect the World. This is CNN. 22 minutes past 8:00 in London. I'm Becky Anderson.
Now U.S. drone strikes could be classed as war crimes, that's according to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Now they have released reports detailing multiple strikes in Pakistan and in Yemen that led to the death of unarmed civilians. This all comes a day before Pakistan's prime minister Nawaz Sharif meets with the U.S. president in Washington. With more on this, CNN's World Affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty joins us live from the U.S. capital.
How is Washington reacting to what is a pretty explosive report today?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a dilemma in reacting, because of course they are denying that any of these drones by the United States violates international law. They also saw both here at the State Department and at the White House that they are trying at all costs to avoid civilians. But when they come to the nitty-gritty, you know, answering specific allegations in those reports, they say we're reviewing them in their entirety, but they can't give specifics. And that's one of the dilemmas.
Let's listen to Marie Harf. She's a spokesperson for the State Department. And she just briefed a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIE HARF, U.S. DEPUTY STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: There's a wide gap between U.S. assessments, and in general non-governmental reports about civilian casualties. We undertake every effort to limit them. We believe that we are always operating in accordance with international law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGHERTY: So, international law.
Now one of the questions, not only the legal issues, Becky, but in those reports they talk about the downside of using drones, that in effect they would argue, the human rights organizations, that these drones create more harm than good. And Marie Harf said, quoting the president, President Obama, "doing nothing is not an option."
And then also on that issue of whether they could be specific one of the things that the White House and the State Department are saying is that they do not -- they really can't -- they have -- I should say they have more accurate numbers, they would claim, than the human rights organizations. But, because if they had to reveal how they got that information it would reveal sources and methods and they can't do that.
So, again, we have you know this debate, certainly more ammunition, more information coming from the human rights organizations, but not a lot of specifics from the administration.
ANDERSON: Interesting. No comment or trust us, I guess, is what they're saying.
All right. This debate will go on, there is no doubt.
Jill Dougherty for you.
The case of a young girl found in the care of a Roma couple in Greece has sparked international interest in missing children. Police are now working on what is a similar case in Ireland. Erin McLaughlin has more.
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORREPSONDENT: There as more question than answers surrounding this mysterious girl only known as Maria who was found living with a Roma couple who were not her parents. Medical tests indicate that Maria is between five and six-years-old, older than originally thought.
A Greek children's charity called the Smile of the Child has launched a public appeal to find her real parents. The charity spokesperson says there are about 10 cases of missing children that they are looking at very seriously. They include children from the United states, Canada, Poland and France.
Meanwhile, members of the Roma community had rallied behind the couple now charged with her abduction releasing video footage to show she was happy and cared for.
The couple is expected to be transferred to separate prisons later today. They will remain in police custody for the duration of the trial.
Now in a completely separate case, police have removed a seven-year- old girl, a blonde girl, from the home of a Roma family in Talit (ph), Ireland on Monday afternoon. A police spokesperson tells Cnn the girl is now in the care of social service. At the moment, police are not revealing the circumstances surrounding this other girl.
Erin McLaughlin, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Well, the latest world news headlines as you would expect here on CNN at the bottom of the hour.
Plus, has Facebook gone too far? Why the social networking site is stirring up controversy among its users.
And we'll be finding out why chocolate addicts might be their own worst enemies as the demand for the sweet snacks soars. We'll be talking to a famous chocolate maker live in the studio. That coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back. This is Connect the World. The top stories for you this hour here on CNN.
A Syrian opposition leader says his coalition will decide within days whether to take part in an upcoming Geneva peace conference or not. Western and Arab countries pressed opposition leaders to attend the talks during a meeting today in London.
Australian firefighters are preparing for the worst as high winds and temperatures threaten to make Wednesday the worst day for the bush fires. They've already burned already roughly an area roughly the size of Los Angeles. More than 200 homes have been destroyed.
The trial of three men accused of an acid attack against the Bolshoi Ballet director has been adjourned until next week. The trial is expected to last a few months.
The US jobs numbers for September have just been released. The government shutdown delayed the report for nearly three weeks. While the unemployment rate dropped to its lowest level since November of 2008, the economy added far fewer jobs than analysts had expected.
More than a billion people across the globe have a Facebook account. Fact. The social network allows anyone 13 and older to become a member, which is just one of the reasons why their policy of reintroducing violent, graphic video is causing so much controversy.
The site has largely lifted its ban on users posting images of people being decapitated -- yes, having their heads cut off -- while keeping in place their policy against nudity. So, essentially, beheadings OK, they get a "like." Breasts are not.
Let's bring in Samuel Burke from our New York bureau to shed some light on this. Samuel, what are Facebook up to at this point?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, this whole thing was flagged up by Facebook's own users. Over the past few days, they saw a video in which a woman was beheaded. Now, I want to show you just a still image from that video where we've decided to blur out the woman's face.
I watched the whole video, and later on, this woman on her knees there, the man holding her head then cuts off her head, Becky. And -- that's a clip of it right there.
Now, at that point, many users on Facebook saw this video and asked Facebook -- demanded that Facebook take down that clip. It was only when Facebook replied to them that they would be keeping the video up did we realize that at a temporary ban that Facebook had placed on violent videos like this had been lifted.
I spoke to a representative of Facebook, and they told me they will keep these videos up unless they glorify violence. Now, of course, Facebook will now be deciding what constitutes or doesn't constitute "glorifying violence."
In a statement, the social network went on to say that "Facebook has long been a place where people turn to share their experiences, such as human rights abuses, acts of terrorism, and other events. People share videos of these events on Facebook to condemn them. If they were being celebrated or the actions in them encouraged, our approach would be different."
But Becky, that answer did not satisfy many on social media, including the prime minister of the United Kingdom. David Cameron took to Twitter early this morning and he said, "It's irresponsible of Facebook to post beheading videos, especially without a warning. They must explain their actions to worried parents."
And I just want to repeat something that you said earlier, Becky. Facebook's own policy says that children 13 years of age can use this social media platform.
ANDERSON: And nudity, even with a warning, still deemed offensive in all of this.
BURKE: Even partial nudity, Becky. A few weeks ago, we tried to post an image of an African woman in -- using clothing that exposed part of her breast, but part of the culture there, the norm there. Facebook took the image down and locked us out of our account for a period of time.
So, that can stay up, but these videos of decapitations -- those are taken down. Now, Facebook told me they're working on a warning system that would give people a few seconds to decide if they want to click out of the video, kind of like what we do on cnn.com when we show violent clips. But that system is not yet in place, Becky. It's just in beta testing.
This is what it looks like: "Warning, this video contains extremely graphic content and may be upsetting." But only a few users are seeing this on Facebook right now. It's not across the entire social media platform, Becky.
ANDERSON: All right, Samuel, thank you for that. Joining me now to debate the merits of the Facebook U-turn is Holmes Wilson, who is an activist for Internet freedom from Massachusetts in the States, and Laura Higgins from the UK Safer Internet Center in Devon.
From what I gather, Laura, context is now key to Facebook posts as they said they will examine each post carefully. They don't want to get involved or stamp on freedom of speech, which I know our guest, Holmes, is going to talk to us about. But you don't, I guess, buy that, do you? You don't want to see beheadings on Facebook. Why?
LAURA HIGGINS, HELPLINE MANAGER, UK SAFER INTERNET CENTER: This is a tricky one for us. We've always had a great relationship with Facebook, which we hope does continue, and we have been speaking to them over the last couple of days about this issue.
The problem for us, of course, is that we're here to generally keep young people safe online, and as you've already said, Facebook allows users from 13, but also we know that there are even younger users accessing Facebook. So, as much as yes, it's great that they are rolling out the warning system --
ANDERSON: Sure.
HIGGINS: -- actually by their own nature, young people are probably quite inquisitive, might think it's a bit funny to click, and of course, once you've seen something, you can't unsee it, and that damage could be quite damaging for them.
ANDERSON: Holmes, you heard Samuel talking there about the fact that a picture of a tribal African woman with her breast exposed was removed from the site in context that is not the same as pornographic material, is it? And yet, they took that down. How do you read all of this? Are you convinced Facebook are sound in their judgment at this point?
HOLMES WILSON, CO-DIRECTOR, FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE: Well, I think the headline here is a bit misleading.
ANDERSON: Why?
WILSON: Really, we're talking about videos that portray graphic acts of violence, and in many cases, and this has happened, those videos have gone on to become -- a video portraying a human rights abuse, for example, has gone on to become very popular and has mobilized people to address those human rights issues. In the Egyptian uprising in 2011 --
ANDERSON: Yes.
WILSON: -- one of the primary things that stimulated that were videos showing police brutally beating a man. There was a bit --
ANDERSON: Holmes, that I understand, because I was part of the reporting of that. I do not believe you are trying to convince our viewers and me tonight that everybody who watches a video on YouTube -- sorry, on Facebook that is of a beheading is hoping it will be used for a positive purpose.
Come on, 13, 14, 15-year-olds, they watch these things because it's fun to them, and that is no good for a 13, 14, 15-year-old, is it? Come on.
WILSON: I completely agree with you. But I think the issue is what happens when you have a social movement that's successfully using a video showing human rights abuses to rally people to change those abuses? It could be, in some of these cases, these videos can save lives by overthrowing governments, by addressing -- by changing the leadership of police.
In this case, it's a video of -- the video that you mentioned is the video of someone being beheaded by a Mexican drug cartel. If that video raises awareness about the issue facing -- this tremendous issue facing the country of Mexico --
ANDERSON: Holmes, you make a very good point. Let me put that to Laura. So, you've heard what Holmes says. How do you respond?
HIGGINS: Well, certainly we're not about censorship. We absolutely agree and we ourselves have seen lots of examples of these things used for good. The concern is, the under 18s and even some slightly older who are really quite damaged by seeing these things --
ANDERSON: But what do you do about it? Come on, what do you do about it? Let's move on here. What do we do about it. How do you measure this?
HIGGINS: So, one of the conversations that we're having with Facebook is about is there a possibility to build in filters for people who have registered under the 18. As we already know, they have different privacy settings already in place and perhaps that could be applied in these sorts of cases.
The idea of having a warning and an opt-in on these things, maybe you do need to age verify so that you can access. But I think let's not hang out Facebook to dry here. This is -- this content is available everywhere on the web.
And I think education is key, so it's about parents and schools talking to children. We don't want to draw attention to this stuff, but they need to know if they see something that looks scary, don't click on it. Go and tell somebody.
One of the things for us as well is that we don't want people to become desensitized to these sorts of images, because for most people, it's not OK. It's OK that's out there for information purposed, but it shouldn't be just appearing on people's timelines.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: It's a tough one, isn't it, Holmes?
HIGGINS: So actually --
ANDERSON: What do you do about it? We're trying to get to a point where we say Facebook, this is what we hope you would do alongside this information, this content, these visuals. What would you suggest?
WILSON: I think an age verification makes total sense, and I would be shocked if they weren't working on that right now. It sounds like they're already working on some kind of warning system. I'm sure some kind of tiered system where minors or people they know are under 18 are not given access to some videos. That makes total sense. I'm sure they're about to do it.
What you don't want to do is take a video that is perhaps going viral and perhaps actually changing the world by showing people something, some sort of dark, hidden part of something they'd rather ignore, and wipe that off the face of the web. That would be a disservice to humanity --
ANDERSON: Yes. No, I understand what you're saying. Until such a point as Facebook comes up with some sort of system here, Laura, do you want to see what happened last time, which was corporate sponsors walking away, suggesting that they would pull their advertising? Is that -- does that help drive Facebook into a corner, to a certain extent? Is that what you're suggesting?
HIGGINS: Absolutely not. In fact, I think we're probably the opposite of that. Having really positive, engaged relationships with industry partners is what helps us to shape policy. If we make them the enemy, then they won't want to engage, they won't want to listen when we have reasonable concerns. It's about working together to try and find solutions for these issues.
ANDERSON: Last thought, Holmes, if you will.
WILSON: Well, I think the one thing that definitely for sure here is that people do have a right to demand that Facebook consider cultural norms and consider the safety of children in their policies. It's -- and to the extent that a private company can just decide unilaterally about these things, that is a problem.
But it is important that videos that portray something that needs to change are able to reach the people who have the power to change it.
ANDERSON: You've made a very good point, both of you, tonight. Thank you very much, Laura and Holmes. We want to know what you think about this. Is it freedom of expression or a gratuitous display of violence? Should it be there or shouldn't for 18-year-olds and under or mainly for nobody at all?
You can contact us via our Facebook page, facebook.com/CNNconnect. You can always tweet me @BeckyCNN, of course, @BeckyCNN, your thoughts on that and anything that we've been covering this evening.
Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Have you got a sweet tooth? Then you might soon be paying more for your guilty pleasure. Why? Find out after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Eva Chen is the CEO of computer security company Trend Micro, one of only a handful of women around the world at the helm of a tech company. In tonight's Leading Women, she tells us about the unique advice that has guided her to success and kept her there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EVA CHEN, CEO AND CO-FOUNDER, TREND MICRO: Hello.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Eva Chen took over computer security company Trend Micro in 2004, she became one of the few women leading a high-profile tech company in the world.
STOUT (on camera): What's it like being a tech CEO who is a woman and also a non-hardcore engineer. Is it tough?
CHEN: It's tough, but it's fun. A lot of time I say, I'm walking to the meeting room, nobody expects me to know anything about technology, and if I start to draw on the white board some technology, they're really impressed.
(LAUGHTER)
CHEN: So, that's an advantage. And I think the other advantage is that because I'm not a hardcore engineer, so I'm always not there to ask questions, even stupid questions, and by asking questions, actually unveil more potential from the engineers.
STOUT (voice-over): Chen grew up in Taiwan and studied philosophy, inspired by her father and grandfather.
CHEN: Among the family, I remember even my grandpa said so, he said any technique you can learn, but most important thing is how you think. So, philosophy in our family, we believe, is a way to train how your brain works.
STOUT: But it was a graduate school job in a computer lab where she first discovered her talent and love for technology.
CHEN: Actually, last time I was giving a speech in Korea at a women's university, and they were asking me for women, how do I find a job, a good job that fits me? And my answer is that don't find a job. Find your passion.
STOUT: Four years after graduating with two masters degrees, she followed her passion, co-founding Trend Micro with her sister and brother- in-law in 1988.
CHEN: My mentor is our chairman, our co-founder, Steven Chang. His famous word was "be yourself." What do you think feeds your solution? And when I took over the CEO role from him, that was his only advice.
STOUT: Chen has followed that advice and passes it on to her current employees. As Trend Micro continues to grow, she remembers where it's been and where it's taken her.
STOUT (on camera): People sometimes forget just how difficult it is in the early years to be an entrepreneur. It's not that easy.
CHEN: It's not that easy. It was very difficult, but also, every time you overcome one obstacle, you feel you'll learn something and you grow. That's the joy of entrepreneurship and taking charge.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: And coming up after this short break on CONNECT THE WORLD, I'll be joined in the studio by one of London's finest chocolatiers. We'll be talking about the soaring price of cocoa. More importantly, I'm going to get to taste some of his fine creations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: US markets are up on the back of today's jobs report, which shows American unemployment is falling. You can see the markets there. What have we got? Well, the markets up not hugely, but it's a better day than it would be if those arrows were pointing south.
With signs of a strengthening economy in the US and globally, one market seems to be doing particularly well: our appetite for chocolate, it appears, seems to be growing. Well ahead of the Christmas candy rush, increased demand has helped push the price of cocoa up dramatically.
Adriana Hauser speaks to one man who knows a little about chocolate in Miami, about the bitter taste these price hikes are leaving behind.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADRIANA HAUSER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For this Venezuelan entrepreneur, chocolate is her passion, but also her business.
ALEJANDRA BIGAI, OWNER, ROMANICOS: A good quality cocoa is my business. I don't use bad cocoa or low-quality cocoa.
HAUSER: But the price of that coveted commodity is going up and may eventually affect the price of chocolate.
BIGAI: The fluctuations in the cocoa prices affect my business because it's one of my raw materials. I try to absorb myself first, but if my margins get too low, I need to increase the price.
BIGAI: Experts explain that rising demand in emerging markets and bad weather in producing countries are responsible for an increase in the price of crops.
MARIA LORCA-SUSINO, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: We know already that for next season, it's not going to be as abundant as this was needed to be. The major countries exporting, they have a problem with pesticide and they have a problem also with dry weather. We are basically seeing how countries like China, India, that they have become very demanding on this product.
HAUSER: Alejandra Bigai has not felt the impact yet but does not rule it out next year. And by then, she'll have to make a decision.
According to the National Confectioners Association's Chocolate Council, retail chocolate prices in the US have gone up 7 percent in the past 12 months. Compare that to an annual consumer price inflation of about 1.5 percent. Behind that spike in chocolate prices is the higher cost of cocoa.
HAUSER (on camera): The price of cocoa has gone up around 20 percent since hitting a low point in March. Analysts consider it one of the best- performing commodities this year and believe the upward trend will continue well into 2014.
Adriana Hauser, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: So, with cocoa prices set to rise right the way through the festive period, the industry's busiest time, of course, will it be the chocolate makers or us, the consumers, who feel the pinch? Well, one man who knows all about the sweet stuff is master chocolatier Aneesh Popat, and he joins me now on the set, a man who just loved chocolate when he was a youngster, so he's self-taught, I believe.
ANEESH POPAT, MASTER CHOCOLATIER: Yes, that's correct, yes. Just passion. Really wanted to do it, so I did.
ANDERSON: Just very, very greedy --
POPAT: Absolutely, yes.
ANDESON: -- as a small boy. Listen, a lot of us will know what these are. These are chocolates --
POPAT: That's right.
ANDERSON: -- to you, me, and the gate post. But what you've got in front of us is what we're talking about here when we're talking about the price of cocoa.
POPAT: Yes, that's right. Essentially, what I've got here is a cocoa pod, which people don't really know much about. It's the fruit of the within which there are these little beans.
Open the beans, crush them, you get cocoa nibs, which is essentially the basis of all chocolates. Separate into cocoa butter, cocoa power, mix and scale in different in proportions, and we can make ourselves all these treats.
ANDERSON: And you certainly do make some treats these days.
POPAT: That's right.
ANDERSON: Why do you think it is that the price of cocoa has gone so high?
POPAT: There are several factors attributing to this. The major one for me is fair trade. A fair price. If farmers are paid a good amount for what they do, then there's reason for them to plant cocoa. At the minute, they're turning to other products, like in India, coconut's more popular or there is rubber.
ANDERSON: One of the reasons that they are moving away from cocoa, for example, in the Ivory Coast is child slaves are used in many of the plantations. People have clamped down on that. There is a fair trade going on now. Chocolate companies looking to their supply chain for more accountability. So, to a certain extent, that's a good thing, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
POPAT: Yes, absolutely. We might have to spend a bit more, but how can you possibly eat and enjoy your chocolate when someone else is a slave because of it?
ANDERSON: So, I know that -- let's just get a shot of this, because this is one of your creations.
POPAT: Yes.
ANDERSON: If I were wanting to buy and consumer that --
POPAT: Sure.
ANDERSON: -- at Christmas, the chocolate inside there is going to cost me a lot more money this year than last. Is it going to cost you, though, more or me this year?
POPAT: Absolutely, it's going -- well, it's going -- it might cost you a bit more, but I'm reluctant to do that. I'll probably have to take the pinch. And we already have for almost a year, but no one's really talked too much about it.
We actively work with cooperations or smaller individual farmers to give them a better price. It's difficult to raise your price in this economic climate anyway, so it's definitely our pocket that feels it.
ANDERSON: It's been a tough time for any producers and retailers, of course --
POPAT: Sure.
ANDERSON: -- as we've moved out of this economic recession, but things are improving and we are moving towards a festive season. A lot of the pricing of a commodity like chocolate, of course, isn't -- is difficult to understand. It's done in what's called a forward market. People are hedging their bets.
POPAT: Sure.
ANDERSON: So in the end, is it about supply and demand or is it about those traders in the middle? Those guys who are trading these futures in cocoa that are making all the differences?
POPAT: Sure. Well --
ANDERSON: I want to work out whose fault it is.
POPAT: I guess it's a bit of the egg and the chicken thing. I think there's always the hedging going on, which almost pushes or forces different scenarios to occur. But for me, it's always going to be at the very base root.
ANDERSON: So, what's the future for a man like yourself?
POPAT: In terms of --
ANDERSON: Short-term.
POPAT: Short-term?
ANDERSON: Yes.
POPAT: Short-term is to hope and wish for a very jolly Christmas.
(LAUGHTER)
POPAT: Looking longterm, I'd like to work closer with farmers myself, hopefully producing some of my own chocolate so I don't have to go via someone, I can directly rely on my own self. And in course, increase my own profit. I don't think there's any other option until we as a global community decide to pay a fairer price.
ANDERSON: Come on, let's have a look at this one. You're going to sell this, right? Not to me, obviously. I'm going to try some of these. But what's inside this?
POPAT: I can't -- I wouldn't sell it, I haven't got the heart too. There's nothing inside it. It is solid chocolate itself --
ANDERSON: Whoa!
POPAT: It's dusted in edible bronze powder, completely hand-scuffed.
ANDERSON: Can -- I'm not going to try a bit of that.
POPAT: Go on, I'll repair, so that's fine.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON: Listen, I'm not going to. Let me try one of these.
POPAT: Sure.
ANDERSON: What are inside these?
POPAT: OK. So, this is my Water Ganache collection. We don't use any cream or butter. That's a lemon one you're having, before you're surprised. There's no cream and butter, it's just lemon puree and white chocolate, and it's got half the calories of a normal truffle because of the lack of cream. So there's no guilt this Christmas. January, eat as many chocolates as you want.
ANDERSON: Fantastic! How about that? I've got to say, it tastes absolutely divine.
POPAT: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: Thank you, sir.
POPAT: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Great to have a chocolate man on. In tonight's Parting Shots, photos from inside North Korea that the world was never meant to see. These pictures were taken by this man on the left, Swedish journalist Johan Nylander. He was the only Western journalist invited to North Korea to cover an international bike race last month.
Despite being promised full access during his stay, Nylander had 90 photos, including -- excuse me while I eat this chocolate -- including this one deleted by security guards, but once he was out of the country, Nylander was able to recover the photos with the help of a computer expert.
The propaganda monument of Dear Leader, Kim Jong-il, was deleted. North Korea required images of leaders to be full-body shots. In another forbidden photo, a large crowd of North Koreans look on as the Western cyclists cross the finish. And here's a customs official tourist guide checking foreigners' passports.
Nylander says other deleted photos often showed peasants in the countryside. Although he says he's still unclear why the photos were not in line with the North Korean guidelines.
From myself and Aneesh Popat, the chocolatier extraordinaire this evening, it is a very good evening. Which one do you like best?
POPAT: Rose and cinnamon.
ANDERSON: Rose and cinnamon. Mm.
END
